CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
- Artists:
- Marillion »
You heard.
In this week's 'shock' result, Marillion have scored their first Top 10 hit in over 17 years - and their first big hit with Steve Hogarth on vocals - with 'You're Gone' entering the chart at No. 8, one place above Franz Ferdinand's third single, 'Matinee'. Hogarth had left a message on Marillion's website telling their loyal fanbase: "If you'd like to make an old dog very happy, you could dig deep, get into eight quid's worth of debt and buy three copies or more of our single. We'd almost certainly go top 10 and I'd have my first ever top 10 single just before my 45th birthday!"
Happy birthday, Mr Hogarth.
In the rest of the charts, Eamon is No. 1 with a song containing many naughty words, the ghastly Maroon 5 enter at 3, and Eurovision hopeful James Fox goes in at 13. Meanwhile, some faceless piece of trance fluff on Nulife enters at 19, while some other club crap on Boy George's Positiva label enters 24.
At 31, retro rockers The Bees are one place above Wales' answer to Blazin' Squad, Goldie Lookin' Chain. Armand Van Helden (yawn) is at 34, and Breed 77 enter at 39.
Guns 'n' Roses are No. 1 in the album chart. The Zutons' debut enters at 13.
Meh.
Marillion
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CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Even more of a shock to me was the fact that Marillion are still together?!?!
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
i cant be the only one who has never heard or heard of them.
i havent heard the song in question either. good marketing ploy by them tho. a bit like sharron osbourne saying after ozzy crashed 'ozzy would love it if he got his first uk number one with changes'
i havent heard the song in question either. good marketing ploy by them tho. a bit like sharron osbourne saying after ozzy crashed 'ozzy would love it if he got his first uk number one with changes'
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Still together and releasing one of their best albums in many a year on May 3 - Marbles.
The new album has loadsa different influences - you can hear some clips at www.marillion.com - the single isn't representative of the album. If you like Radiohead, Coldplay, Pink Floyd, Beatles - it's all in there with the added attraction of remaining somehow, distinctly Marillion.
And not a Fish in site.
The new album has loadsa different influences - you can hear some clips at www.marillion.com - the single isn't representative of the album. If you like Radiohead, Coldplay, Pink Floyd, Beatles - it's all in there with the added attraction of remaining somehow, distinctly Marillion.
And not a Fish in site.
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Say, Marillion are a great band! I suggest you have a listen to any of their albuns... Garanty you'll be surprised!
Welcome to a better way of life!
Franz who?!
F
.
Welcome to a better way of life!
Franz who?!
F
.
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
I hate Maroon 5.
That is all...
That is all...
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
the fact that that armand van helden song is totally awesome doesn't come into that yawn does it.
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Marillion? holy crap! and i thought the charts couldn't get worse...
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
mooseman...behave yourself.
I've got five years worth of late nineties NME's if you want them...
I've got five years worth of late nineties NME's if you want them...
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
mooseman, I'm afraid you don't know what you're talking about. To disrespect Marillion is to disrespect five of the finest musicians in British rock.
Look on Allmusic Guide or even Q and see the reviews they give Marillion records. Not bad at all. Q even went so far as to say that Marillion's intricate musicianship was masterly.
If you just want a band to make a noise, go for another band. However, if you want to listen to a band that really care about what they are doing and take the time to craft their music and get it just right, then Marillion are strongly recommended.
Look on Allmusic Guide or even Q and see the reviews they give Marillion records. Not bad at all. Q even went so far as to say that Marillion's intricate musicianship was masterly.
If you just want a band to make a noise, go for another band. However, if you want to listen to a band that really care about what they are doing and take the time to craft their music and get it just right, then Marillion are strongly recommended.
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
I thought 'Fish' was Marillion's singer. What happenned to him?
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
He left in 1988...
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Bloody hell. Look at all the Marillion fans pop out the woodwork.
It's like the hippies who go to stone henge for the summer solstice. Back I Say! Back to the obscure depths of singles charting at no. 54!
It's like the hippies who go to stone henge for the summer solstice. Back I Say! Back to the obscure depths of singles charting at no. 54!
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
GRENDEL by Marillion was an absolute masterpiece. THE WEB was a masterpiece. PUNCH AND JUDY, HE KNOWS YOU KNOW, FUGAZI... all fantastic songs.
I miss Fish. But also now I'm happy foer them...
And I hate Maroon5, too.
I miss Fish. But also now I'm happy foer them...
And I hate Maroon5, too.
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Marillion disgust me. I had to share a very small room at college for a year with a man who played nothing but them and the Fish album Vigil in a Wilderness of Mirrors. Anyone who can release a record called that without shame should be banned from the studio for life.
Still, at least we can all agree Maroon 5 are the worst sort of crap. Can't we?
Still, at least we can all agree Maroon 5 are the worst sort of crap. Can't we?
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Went to see Marillion a couple of years ago and they were amazing. Really fresh. I can understand why people mention Radiohead, Pink Floyd etc, but the truth is that they sounded better than any of them.
Steve Hogarth has a brilliant voice.
I know they're touring soon, so I'll definitely be going again.
Steve Hogarth has a brilliant voice.
I know they're touring soon, so I'll definitely be going again.
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Hatred of Maroon 5: Yes and yes again.
Saw the video with no sound on MTV at work, think: hmmm he's not very ugly. Put sound up, pant excitement abates instantly at sound of hideous Jamiroquia style cuntism.
Saw the video with no sound on MTV at work, think: hmmm he's not very ugly. Put sound up, pant excitement abates instantly at sound of hideous Jamiroquia style cuntism.
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Oh yes. They're generally nice to look at, but ear plugs most certainly needed.
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
GLC Wales's answer to the Blazin' Squad? A bit harsh methinks! The Blazin' Squad are serious musicians!
(tee hee)
(tee hee)
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
I go to school with Steve Hogarths daughter.
Just useless information. Not heard a song by them though.
Just useless information. Not heard a song by them though.
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
hurraaaah!!
x
gen
x
gen
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
marillion? it's been such a long time. So surprising!
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
This must be another way of saying:
"I haven't heard Marillions music since the 80's, but I don't wanna admit that so I think I'll do a safe one and say something about the music they played 20 years ago instead. No one will find out I'm an idiot who doesn't are very up to date".
Exept me and hundred of thousands fans around the globe.....
"I haven't heard Marillions music since the 80's, but I don't wanna admit that so I think I'll do a safe one and say something about the music they played 20 years ago instead. No one will find out I'm an idiot who doesn't are very up to date".
Exept me and hundred of thousands fans around the globe.....
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
dude, my Aunt knows the ex- singer Fish.
*Shudders*
*Shudders*
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
"Vigil In a Wilderness of Mirroris" is a quote from Churchill about the cold war - It's about how Fish felt whilst in his last days of Marillion.
As for Marillion getting in at No. 7 - never underestimate a band with a loyal fanbase ; that sells records the likes of which NO amount of hype can do. If fans buy records, then they appear in the charts. Simple fact. Simply becuase they don;t fit in yer indier than thou clique doesn't mean It's a travesty. What is a travesty is that you expect a band that could once sell out 5 nights at Wembley Arena with a huge (and hugely loyal) fanbase thats been goign over 20 years to be outsold by the latest hype of proto-New Waver's that sound like the sound of '79.
perhaps my cynicism is why i don;t write here anymore.
As for Marillion getting in at No. 7 - never underestimate a band with a loyal fanbase ; that sells records the likes of which NO amount of hype can do. If fans buy records, then they appear in the charts. Simple fact. Simply becuase they don;t fit in yer indier than thou clique doesn't mean It's a travesty. What is a travesty is that you expect a band that could once sell out 5 nights at Wembley Arena with a huge (and hugely loyal) fanbase thats been goign over 20 years to be outsold by the latest hype of proto-New Waver's that sound like the sound of '79.
perhaps my cynicism is why i don;t write here anymore.
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Franz is way better then Marillion, simple as that
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
I seriously doubt Franz are better musicians though.
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Theres more to music then musician ship, not that i dont respect good musicans but nothing beats sheer song writting talent,
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
And Marillion have plenty of songwriting talent. Listen to their records before you pass comment on them.
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Marillion - one of the best bands I've heared in ages. They write such fantastic songs - I got into them about 18 months ago and haven't looked back.
It says a lot that they've been around for 20+ years. They have talent that many of the manufactured bands totally lack !
It says a lot that they've been around for 20+ years. They have talent that many of the manufactured bands totally lack !
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Best song in the UK Top 10 right now. It's a pity so many people hold grudges against Marillion and don't give them the time of day, even though they've evolved into a band most people wouldn't recognize. If Marillion had released this under a different name and put a bunch of pretty-boy 20-somethings on the cover, it would have gone to No. 1 on its own and stayed there for the better part of a year.
But most people would rather sit on their old stereotypes than give them an actual listen, I suppose.
But most people would rather sit on their old stereotypes than give them an actual listen, I suppose.
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
The new album out on 3/05/04 sounds very polished and well produced. its got at least two more singles that can come off of it.
If people give it a chance they might find that a surprise or two.
`course if you want to listen to glorified karoake singers lulled into thinking that they're entertainers by multi-millionaires carry on.
If people give it a chance they might find that a surprise or two.
`course if you want to listen to glorified karoake singers lulled into thinking that they're entertainers by multi-millionaires carry on.
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Steve Hogarth was an accomplished session pianist and keyboardist before he joined Marillion, and very nearly got to work with Johnny Marr in The The. He accepted Marillion's offer to join them as their new singer instead.
Ian Mosley is a fantastic drummer and established himself in groups such as Manfred Mann, The Gordon Giltrap Band, Curved Air and The Steve Hackett Band before joining Marillion (groups I suspect none of the ignorant fools attacking Marillion on this board will have heard of, since they wouldn't know a musician if one kicked them up the arse).
Pete Trewavas is one of the most accomplished bass guitarists in rock, proving his quality by playing with virtuosos in Transatlantic (again, another band I would imagine are news to the ignorant fools I mentioned before).
Wash your mouths out and find out what a musician is.
Ian Mosley is a fantastic drummer and established himself in groups such as Manfred Mann, The Gordon Giltrap Band, Curved Air and The Steve Hackett Band before joining Marillion (groups I suspect none of the ignorant fools attacking Marillion on this board will have heard of, since they wouldn't know a musician if one kicked them up the arse).
Pete Trewavas is one of the most accomplished bass guitarists in rock, proving his quality by playing with virtuosos in Transatlantic (again, another band I would imagine are news to the ignorant fools I mentioned before).
Wash your mouths out and find out what a musician is.
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Well said cappy.
Self-proclaimed 'experts' using these forums should be more open-minded rather than judging a band blindly and with pre-conceived views.
Marillion are, indeed, the UK's best-kept musical secret and a formidable talent to boot. Just ask Radiohead about the impact that Marillion's 'Brave' had on them at the time of writing 'OK Computer'.
If you're into Radiohead, Pink Floyd, The Beatles, Crowded House, The Doves ... then Marillion should be for you. If you don't, the you probaly won't.
And if you really want to be bowled over, catch their version of Marvin Gaye's 'Abraham, Martin & John'.
Do us all a favour - go and buy the album on 3rd May (Marbles). If you come back and say you don't like it then fair enough, you'll have my respect (although I assure you, you'll love it). Otherwise, your opinions on music are, sadly, not worth hearing.
Bands lik FF deserve their success too - good pop songs that people enjoy. But better musicians? You're having a larf aint ya?
Self-proclaimed 'experts' using these forums should be more open-minded rather than judging a band blindly and with pre-conceived views.
Marillion are, indeed, the UK's best-kept musical secret and a formidable talent to boot. Just ask Radiohead about the impact that Marillion's 'Brave' had on them at the time of writing 'OK Computer'.
If you're into Radiohead, Pink Floyd, The Beatles, Crowded House, The Doves ... then Marillion should be for you. If you don't, the you probaly won't.
And if you really want to be bowled over, catch their version of Marvin Gaye's 'Abraham, Martin & John'.
Do us all a favour - go and buy the album on 3rd May (Marbles). If you come back and say you don't like it then fair enough, you'll have my respect (although I assure you, you'll love it). Otherwise, your opinions on music are, sadly, not worth hearing.
Bands lik FF deserve their success too - good pop songs that people enjoy. But better musicians? You're having a larf aint ya?
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
I cant hide the fact that actually, I do like Marillion - though I lost interest after Holidays in Eden in 92. (except for tales formt he Engine Room, which is a brilliant brilliant album). And For a good couple of years, I was one of the most prolific writers on this tie - some 150+ articles. Maybe this musical taste had more than a little bearing on my removal from the staff on this site.
Im by no means an acolyte of Marillion (I feel they peaked a good 10+ years ago) but the records they made before then I still find new things in now, and they mean a damn sight more to me than the latest 2 single old proto-retro wonder that sound like a rehash of soem 1979 obscure new-waver group. (see FF). As I said before...dont underestimate a band with a huge and loyal fanbase, coz that will do them much more good than however much hype which recycled pap the major label wants to peddle at you.
Im by no means an acolyte of Marillion (I feel they peaked a good 10+ years ago) but the records they made before then I still find new things in now, and they mean a damn sight more to me than the latest 2 single old proto-retro wonder that sound like a rehash of soem 1979 obscure new-waver group. (see FF). As I said before...dont underestimate a band with a huge and loyal fanbase, coz that will do them much more good than however much hype which recycled pap the major label wants to peddle at you.
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
What exactly is the problem with having Marillion in the charts? It's one less piece of braindead boyband crap in the top ten. Surely thats a good thing?
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Haven't heard of them or the song either. Everyone talks about them like they're old legends, though. So, I'm guessing we're in the minority or something...
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
I'll admit I've never heard of them and have never heard the record - but then I don't listen to the radio. However, that single was HMV's pick of the week that week. Certainly their "rock and indie" pick of the week. So there must've been some hype machine doing something somewhere along the line.
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
What problem? Only a handful of people have protested and the original article didn't seem to mind. They just said it was a shock result, and even then it was shock in inverted commas. Considering Franz Ferdinand just got a top ten or number one or whatever it was. And considering Marillion don't seem to be as well known as Franz. I don't think it was overly a problem, though. From what all the people here are chirping on about I might pick up the single myself.
On the other hand, personally, I think Matinee's a shit single that was lucky to scrape into the top ten but there ya go.
On the other hand, personally, I think Matinee's a shit single that was lucky to scrape into the top ten but there ya go.
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
I still think that people slagging off a band they hardly ever heard should go listen to some music... At least then they'd have a genuine oppinion rather than a manufactured oppinion!
F
.
F
.
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
"even then it was shock in inverted commas"
It was in inverted commas because it WILL be a shock to a lot of people - but not to those who've been following Marillion's new DIY ethic.
It was in inverted commas because it WILL be a shock to a lot of people - but not to those who've been following Marillion's new DIY ethic.
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
thats alsmot a sixth of a century ago, get with the times.
i was 3 years old when fish (what a name :]) left them
i was 3 years old when fish (what a name :]) left them
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
yes i really really like listening to and continue to listen to michelle mcmanus oh and will young, his cover of the doors was absolutely cracking.
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
only one person has slagged off them and said they are crap, and even thats only one album. the majority of people are saying they have never heard of them. most people are actually praising Marillion for their musianship.
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
The problem is... Marillion aren't THAT good. Sure, technical ability is important in music... but would you rather be a Musical Plumber... or a Visionary?
Their cover of "Fake Plastic Trees" is dreadful. "No One Can" is fantastic. Some of the Fish era stuff is Ok as well. The problem isn't Marillion isn't the band, but their fans. They're Trekkies with CD players. Anorakophobia indeed.
Their cover of "Fake Plastic Trees" is dreadful. "No One Can" is fantastic. Some of the Fish era stuff is Ok as well. The problem isn't Marillion isn't the band, but their fans. They're Trekkies with CD players. Anorakophobia indeed.
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Oi! Franz Ferdinand are alright. Crap name for a band though.
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
i haved listin to Marullion and like there stuff but I love Franz, Franz in much better,
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Absolutely right that Marillion aren't musical visionaries, but neither are Franz Ferdinand nor 99% of the musical artists out there. However, Marillion's recent approach to financing and promoting their music is truly visionary and well ahead of just about everyone else in the music industry.
I can't be bothered to become petty and slag off Franz Ferdinand, I've got better things to do. But I wonder if Franz Ferdinand will still be together as a band in 20 years time? Only time will tell I suppose.
By the way evilelvis, if appreciating a band who truly care about their music and the quality of their records makes me a Trekkie anorak, then I can live with that.
I can't be bothered to become petty and slag off Franz Ferdinand, I've got better things to do. But I wonder if Franz Ferdinand will still be together as a band in 20 years time? Only time will tell I suppose.
By the way evilelvis, if appreciating a band who truly care about their music and the quality of their records makes me a Trekkie anorak, then I can live with that.
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Suit yourself... all power to Marillion for keeping at it, but aren't they a bit well, dull? I mean Marillion hold conventions in Butlins and that's a bit Trekkie, isn't it? :P
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
So what gave you the idea they were not? They've been putting out albums pretty steadily. You know, there's more bands in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your top 40 singles philosophy... ;-)
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
@ Unilixes and easy rob: It's no surprise that you haven't heard the song as it got hardly any airplay. If you have never even heard of the band at all, then you were probably too young to follow things in the late 80s, early 90s. They had their last UK top ten album (of 7) in 1994 I think. Their biggest success was the album "Misplaced Childhood" (#1 in 1985).
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Not so, mate, as I had the misfortune to see them in their present incarnation at the now sadly shut Boat Race in Cambridge (RIP) last year or the year before - when that anorakawatsit album came out.
I went with the bloke I mentioned earlier - the one from college.
Anyway, it was God awful dull fucking shite and even the dude I was with admitted he had hated it.
Perhaps he's stuck in a timewarp but me, I'm consistent in my disgust so bash me for being a philistine fuckwit if you like but not for that. Love...
I went with the bloke I mentioned earlier - the one from college.
Anyway, it was God awful dull fucking shite and even the dude I was with admitted he had hated it.
Perhaps he's stuck in a timewarp but me, I'm consistent in my disgust so bash me for being a philistine fuckwit if you like but not for that. Love...
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
All I wanna say is: Forget Anorak, check out Marbles and listen without prejudice. As our old mate George Michael told us to do.
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Yes, indeed, thankyou for presenting the choice which all music listeners ultimately have to make: Marillion or Gareth Gates. If you don't like one you must like the other!
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Fair dos. You gotta have faith fa fai fa faith after all- and you clearly love the bastards so I shall say no more. ;)
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Fine. Don't speak - just listen to u-know-what....thanx! ;-)
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Cappy, don't try to tell me that you can associate longevity with talent. Sex Pistols existed for two years (barely) Joy Division three years, whereas Status Quo, Simply Red, and Phil Collins still make records.
I can't believe people are still arguing about this...
I can't believe people are still arguing about this...
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Well, I guess u forogt TUXON for one of their best ever songs. But I for one always found The first couple of Hogarth albums (especially Seasons End) the most rewarding. THE SPACE has got to be one of the finest songs they ever did - (as is Splintering Heart).
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
If you think The Sex Pistols are more talented than Marillion then God help you! The Sex Pistols were like The Spice Girls - ruthlessly marketed and completely empty of talent, skill or quality. Looked good on a t-shirt though.
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
now hold on, u have gone to far. The Sex Pistols were fucking amazing, The first time I heard them it changed my life, they are what rock and roll is all about,
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
To slag off Marillion and Phil Collins (despite some very dodgy solo songs, Collins remains one of the greatest ever drummers) and bring up a hyped punk band as an example of musical quality is going too far, actually.
You can't call yourself a music fan if you don't respect Marillion. I've said it before and I'll say it again because it is not an opinion, it is a fact. Marillion have been five of the most accomplished musicians in British rock over the last 20 years. But, sadly, musicianship doesn't count for much in today's shallow music scene.
You can't call yourself a music fan if you don't respect Marillion. I've said it before and I'll say it again because it is not an opinion, it is a fact. Marillion have been five of the most accomplished musicians in British rock over the last 20 years. But, sadly, musicianship doesn't count for much in today's shallow music scene.
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
'sadly, musicianship doesn't count for much in today's shallow music scene.'
Yeah, damn all those ridiculous people who choose to listen to stuff or not based on whether they like it rather than how technically skilled it is
Yeah, damn all those ridiculous people who choose to listen to stuff or not based on whether they like it rather than how technically skilled it is
Re: CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
they are together...........come and observe
I saw them last wednesday in Tilburg here in Holland and they where SUPERB
I saw them last wednesday in Tilburg here in Holland and they where SUPERB
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
Wether someone likes or dislikes a certain type of music or band is a personal opinon, as is wether you think a band is boring or not. Cappy ascertion that the members of Marillion are talented musicians is not. It's a fact, based if nothing else on the accolades of their peers. My personal opinon is that Marillion have been making intensely personal exciting music for 20 years. Their sound has continued to evolve. They make music for themselves, not for Studio Evecutives, or for money. In fact if there is anything shocking about this whole phenomenom it is the wake up call that big buisiness was sent. and the roadmap that this band has created for future bands. Understand this is no fluke, good bands can produce good music AND make a handsome living, without a record company, or a distribution deal, or a marketing company. In otherwords good music can sell itself. Truely a shocking revelation, especially to those suits who leech off the artistry of others
CHARTS! Franz Beaten by... Marillion?!
I got into Marillion at 6th form when a friend of mine played me a selection (heavily weighted to 82-88) of their stuff from the Best Of Both Worlds compilation. It got me hooked. Unfortunately for my friend i preferred the stuff done with Steve Hogarth. In the last 3 and a half years i have purchased all their albums and pre-ordered the new one. Their musical talent cannot be doubted however their songwriting ability has been questioned often quite rightly. For me their best albums and best period both musically and in terms of success were Clutching at Straws, Seasons End and Holidays in Eden. They had evolved by 1987 into a good rock band and the period 88-92 had the best of the Fish era AND the ideas of Steve Hogarth and John Helmer mixed in.
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