Kraftwerk threatening to sue Kling Klang into name change
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Kraftwerk are threatening to sue kraut-prog outfit Kling Klang (pictured), DrownedinSound has learned.
The Rock Action-signed band, whose name is inspired by the Klingklang studio Kraftwerk own, received a fax from a promoter associated with the legendary outfit before a show supporting Portishead in Cologne last Sunday (6 Apr).
Kraftwerk have apparently registered the trademark ‘Klingklang’ – which translates as ‘ding dong’ in German – and are threatening to sue if Kling Klang don’t change their name.
The band's management intend to consult a legal advisor, saying that they are “not too prone to accept Kraftwerk’s request”. They go on to state that the multimillionaire kraut-rock legends should be "paternally gratified" that a band have chosen to find inspiration in the work they’ve produced, though DiS has been asked to make it clear that these are the views of the management and not Kling Klang themselves.
Perhaps their reaction is more understandable when you take into account Kraftwerk refer to their studio as “the mother ship” and they’re so attached to it that they boxed it up and took it out on their 1981 world tour with them.
For now undaunted though, Kling Klang will soon return to the studio to record their new album, the follow-up to Esthetik of Destruction set to arrive through Mogwai’s Rock Action label by the end of the year. Before then, they'll continue to support Portishead next month in France and Belgium.
Got news? Email us at newsdesk@drownedinsound.com
- Spotifriday #20 Side II: Kraftwerkweek as a playlist
- Spotifriday #20 Side I: This Week on DiS as a playlist
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- Kraftwerk - Techno Pop: Remastered
- Kraftwerk - Computer World: Remastered
- Kraftwerk - The Man-Machine: Remastered
- Kraftwerk - Trans-Europe Express: Remastered
Kraftwerk
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I thoroughly enjoyed Kling Klang at Portishead's Nightmare Before Christmas.
hmm
I never thought of Kraftwerk of money-grabbing scoundrels before, most odd.
Kraftwerk
can't hope to win, for the reasons that the manager pointed out.
I love Kraftwerk but this is pathetic.
The name...
Was taken from 'Kling Klang' the song as far as I am aware.... Lot's of bands take names from the song titles or lyrics of their heroes.
I think Kraftwerk need to forget the studio and the trade mark thing and just remember that they too once had influences and people to look up to.
It's flattering, no?
completely unnecessary
it's meant as a tribute, here's hoping Kraftwerk have a change of heart about this
I think the fact it says Kling Klang
on most Kraftwerk records (well, from '74 onwards i think?) makes it a bit more than just them simply lifting a song title or a common German phrase. Looking at the back of Die Mensche Maschine, for example, it clearly reads (p) 1978 Kling Klang.
I mean, i can't really go and call a band Autechre simply on the grounds that it's a german word that nobody owns the rights to.
Kling Klang's arguement is a little flimsy.
Nope
It does say KLINGKLANG elsewhere on the back though. It says KLING KLANG on the back of Computer World, Electric Cafe, The Mix too. It's a copyrighted name they've used since the 70's.
The occasional lack of a space in between the two words is quite possibly the weakest attempt at keeping the name.
Autechre is a german word?
I don't think it is; I read in an interview that they made it up. Source?
It doesn't matter what Kraftwerk have written on their records. They have only asserted the trademark of "klingklang", which clearly the band are not in breach of.
Ooh
Well, thanks for clearing that up Florian. I didn't know that it "doesn't matter what Kraftwerk have written on their records" and that you've checked their copyrights. Whether or not the band and the court feel this is enough to go on is a different matter though. I hope they get away with it, Kling Klang are a good band, but i was just saying like..
After checking, Autechre certainly doesn't mean what i thought it did, so you're probably right on that one :S
not very fair
bit mean from kraftwerk
greedy? envy?
Why kraftwerk are hassle a very good band like Kling klang (I saw them in Koln supporting Portishead and they were awesome!)?? A bit of envy?? Or just greedy???
Come on Kling Klang!!
But why?
I really don't understand this reaction from Kraftwerk. A record label or a studio are not the same thing as a recording band! I don't get the problem! I mean it is not like they are using the name kraftwerk to make their albums. It is like the dominos sueing domino records. Or matador sueing the matadors or Interpol actually sueing Interpol. I really really don't get it. Sorry tho cause i really like Kraftwerk. And Kling Klang. I didn't even know they were still around! But it is great news!
Good on them
every time i see something advertising this band i get excited that it's something to do with Kraftwerk. Then it's just some band, i've not heard them but i doubt they're as good as Kraftwerk.
thommo
if i say that they have played one of our nights and that we wanted to book them since day 1 would that make you change your mind?
Kling Klang are amazing and I hope that they come out of this stronger. Kraftwerk seem to be being slightly silly regarding this & I hope common sense prevails.
oh i'll happily see them
it's just i always associate that phrase with Kraftwerk. If you say they're good then i'm sure they've got something going for them, i have seem you write about them a lot, and this is obviously good publicity. i was just saying that Kraftwerk have a point.
How?
Kraftwerk can have a point excuse me? They have registered a certain trademark and then they expect people not to use a different name? I mean why they didn't register "kling klang" but Klingklang"? Because it is illegal to put trademark on common words. I mean, not even Bowie who is utterly greedy has sued the kooks. And what about the dandy warhols! that's even a person's name. Kraftwerk are always sueing poeple to attract attention cause they are not doing anyhthing new these days. That is a bit sad, c'mon! As far as Kling Klang are concerned I think they are superb. Like nothing that is around these days. But I thought they split up years ago...
And I love them
I love Kraftwerk and it is sad as a fan to see them behaving in this silly way. I am not questioning their grandeur really but it is like when they asked that guy 100,000 dollars cause he had registered its site using the word kraftwerk somewhere. I shat in my pants and I changed my nickname on myspace! Yes, I am brave!
Well, THAT is silly
but the phrase Kling Klang is heavily related to them. Kooks was one song on one album. Really i hope Kraftwerk don't sue, because although i do see their point it is greedy of them, yes, and i think they would only have an excuse for suing if they were actually performing under the name Kraftwerk, but i think Kraftwerk do have the right to be cheesed off about it. i mean, i'm a big Super Furry Animals fan, but i wouldn't start making music under the name Placid Casual because as their record label moniker it is likely to confuse some people. Plus it would surely be better that they invented a completely new name, or used an existing name humorously like The Dandy Warhols or Brute Forsyth or Wevie Stonder, rather than having people constantly think they're a band that nicked Kraftwerk's trademark.
Having said that, i'd probably have the paternal pride that someone mentioned above if my band was paid homage to like that. But each to their own.
i'm going to listen to some Kling Klang now though, so, maybe Kraftwerk just like giving the next generation extra column inches...?
Kraftwerk...
Are being really unfair and they should be 'paternally gratified' that Kling Klang named their band after a song... Not the studio.
They obviously did not want this reputation damning story to come out, which is why they went through the hassle of obtaining every band member and the management's address to put it on the form.... It's Mafia tactics.
I hope Kling Klang stick to their guns! Fight the power! They have been together for nearly 10 years under this name!
I mean, 'Kling Klang' is the sound of a sword fight, afterall, ironically enough.
Tribute or Disrespect?
Kling Klang is more than just the name of a track from a Kraftwerk album. It is the registered trademark under which ALL Kraftwerk merchandise is sold, including, CDs, DVDs, t-shirts, concert programmes etc, and is the trademark displayed on the official Kraftwerk web site. Kling Klang is also the name of the studio that has been heavily featured as an integral part of the unique sound and presentation of the group. Kraftwerk have built their reputation and image on emphasising their closeness to the studio when all other bands promoted the importance of live music. So important was the Kling Klang studio that it was incorporated (physically transported) to be included as part of the rare live performances. Kling Klang is a german phrase, just as Kraftwerk is a German word, meaning power-station, and both are registered trademarks. Kraftwerk; the group, Kling Klang; the merchandise from the group. I do not believe Kraftwerk have done this in order to generate publicity, anyone who knows anything about Kraftwerk will know how much they have shunned publicity.
The band “Kling Klang” being Kraftwerk fans must have been aware of this, and thus are being disrespectful to Kraftwerk. The fact that the group are from England and chose to have a German name that is clearly associated with a more successful music group should go against them. The Finnish group Panasonic were forced to change their name to Pan Sonic after the electrical goods company of the same name sued. I note that during the 1980s there was a popular group called Power Station, which, as far as I’m aware, were not sued by Kraftwerk. Perhaps the English group Kling Klang could change their name to Ding Dong.
re: Tribute or Disrespect?
*Florian from Kraftwerk enters room*
;)
Yeah, i agree.
It's sort of what i was saying, but with the sarcasm and snooty, internet-goon vibe taken out :)
I also have quite a funny story that COMPLETELY justifies Kraftwerk's actions with regards Kling Klang really having to now change their name, but not even i would stoop so low as to post it on a public forum. But yeah, it's safe to say that the news story above doesn't quite grasp all the details.
And the 'space or no space' arguement is quite flimsy.
And another thing...
I would like to add that I think it is unfair for people to accuse Kraftwerk of being greedy because they have threatened to sue. Not everything is about money, even in the music business! It seems to me that Kraftwerk are more interested in protecting intellectual property. The only way to do that is to register a trademark then threaten to sue anyone who tries to use it for other purposes. Read the article carefully;.Kraftwerk have “threatened” to sue, they have not yet done so. This would suggest that if the English group Kling Klang (sorry, but I can only think of Kraftwerk when I hear that name) were to change their name then there would be no need to proceed. That is not greed. The fact is, that myself and others (even on this blog) would never have heard of the band unless there was some confusion about their association with Kraftwerk. The English group Kling Klang themselves say they “ were expecting the notice ….since we first stepped on German soil” is fairly convincing evidence that they were fully aware that their choice of name was likely to provoke a reaction.
Kraftwerk have had many opportunities to make money and gain free publicity from their branding. Many well established bands such as U2, David Bowie, Elton John, and more have wanted to work with Kraftwerk but have not been successful in finding co-operation. The manager of the English group Kling Klang describes Kraftwerk as having a “ notorious bent in sueing people”. The fact is that Kraftwerk are publicity shy but are uncompromising in their music and image. They are the epitome of artistic integrity and do not sell themselves out, something very rare in the music world. They have created something very precious in the terms of music and art that many people want to associate themselves with it rather than create their own unique identity. They simply wish to protect their art.
From what I can see from this article, it was not Kraftwerk who brought the case to the attention of the press. That is to say, the English group Kling Klang have deliberately chosen a name that is already associated with Kraftwerk, expect to get sued by Kraftwerk, and break the news to the media when it happens. It is so easy for one to diligently follow in the shadows of the mighty then claim to be oppressed.
Kraftwerk
should take this in the spirit it was meant as - the band are paying homage to them. not like they need the money...
Re: Kraftwerk
I would have been inclined to believe that the English group Kling Klang were paying homage to Kraftwerk (in a naively disrespectful way) if it were not for the comments in the above article. The English group Kling Klang argue that Kraftwerk do not have a right own the trademark Kling Klang, that they should be “paternally gratified” that someone else has used it, and that they actually expect to be sued by Kraftwerk. This suggests that Kraftwerk have reacted appropriately by sending a private warning to them, which it seems they chose to make public. It’s not about money.
They should concentrate
on suing Coldplay instead
Coldplay
Coldplay used the melody from Kraftwerk's Computer Love for their single Talk. They did, however, go to the bother to write to Kraftwerk and ask permission. Kraftwerk said yes!
To be honest...
Kling Klang have been together since 1999... If you Google 'Kling Klang' the band's website comes up. I find it hard to believe that Kraftwerk would not have been aware of the band in the 9 years they have been together..... If this is the case then Kraftwerk have delayed action and have no case.
And Ian-T, 'Kraftwerk' is not trade marked... The symbol of the band was but you cannot trade mark a common phrase. So the two names can't be compared...
Oh, and on your argument about Kraftwerk trying to keep this private. By putting everybody's (Kling Klang and theiur management) addresses on the notice it shows to me that the band are trying to keep them silent. Probably afraid of bad press... It's a shame that people in this world are not willing to spread their 'art' as you put it. A real shame. It is greedy.
I just wish Kling Klang stick the finger up at a band who have not performed in god knows how long and therefore are not sticking to the trade mark terms they registered under - things to do with live performance and entertainment. Kling Klang could argue that after 5 years they are no longer in the same business.
The Charlie Watts Riots
The best thing about this is the news that Kling Klang are due to record another album.
I love the bands who are doing krautrock now.
Let's be honest
I don’t find it hard to believe that Kraftwerk would not have heard of the English group Kling Klang until recently. They are not that famous, and it seems some of their own fans thought they had split up years ago.
I am not aware of the regulation that says common words cannot be trademarked. If that is the case then any band such as the Beatles, Eagles, or companies such as Orange cannot have protection of their name, and that is just not the case. You cannot form a band calling yourself the Beatles even if you did use a different font style, colour design etc. Trademark of a common word does not of course give you the sole right to use that word, that would be ridiculous. It does however allow the registered user protection where someone else uses the word or phrase in a way which might cause confusion. For example, if a textile company decide to call themselves Orange, the telecommunications company have no grounds to object because there is no confusion (unless they use a similar logo which is then a copyright issue). However, if another phone company were to adopt the name they would be quickly sued.
Back to Kling Klang, and by the way the word only has to be similar not exactly the same to be challenged as intellectual property, hence the space between the words is not important. In the music business Kling Klang is the company that solely handle Kraftwerk’s merchandise. This has been well known and well used for many years. Regarding trademarks lapsing after five years: Kling Klang released the Kraftwerk Minimum Maximum DVD in 2005. The Kling Klang on-line shop is still trading at this very minute. Kling Klang are currently promoting live Kraftwerk concerts which will take place in Minneapolis, Denver, Millwaukee and Indio during the next ten days.
Regarding the names and addresses on the fax: I cannot say what Kraftwerk intended by this, but I certainly would not suggest it is sinister. To say they are using “mafia” tactics is defamatory. I would surmise that Kraftwerks’s legal representative will also mail each individual on the fax. It may well be the case that the band are being ill-informed by their management and have therefore been contacted as individuals.
The English group Kling Klang make good music and have benefited from (illegally) using the Kling Klang trademark for a number of years. Like many other bands/writers/actors/artists, when they achieve fame they realise that there name is similar to one that is already registered. That is an inconvenience and not the end of the world. It is the price of fame. What I do object to is this: The English group Kling Klang are currently involved in a cheap promotional gimmick whereby you get publicity by getting into a public argument with an established band, then present themselves as a David versus Goliath. Inevitably people will support the underdog. Well I don’t buy it. It is the English group Kling Klang that are publicity seeking and have been greedily feeding off Kraftwerk’s reputation for the last nine years. I say to the members of the English group Kling Klang; ok when you started out you chose a name without thinking of the consequences, fine. But you are getting big now. Your music is good and speaks for itself. Don’t let your management take you down this pathetic publicity route just to promote your new album (which I’m sure will be very good).
I just think
people should relax in life more.
Kraftwerk should accept that the name derived from one of their songs... Which, in turn, derived from a common phrase used in the playground.
Just chiiiiill Kraftwerk, no one is going to steal your thunder.
Relax, don't do it!
If the English group Kling Klang had selected another title from the same album, such as SPULE 4, STROM or WELLENLANGE, there would be no problem. In fact I could see that as a respectful tribute. Unfortunately they chose the trademarked name of Kraftwerk's merchandising company, and this is confusing. They should be cool with this error of judgement and just change their name. They won't lose their fans as a result. Panasonic become Pan Sonic with no problems. They could get some publicity from it. How about a competition to suggest a new name for the English group formally know as Kling Klang? I’ll start off: 1) The Klangers 2) Kling and Klang, 3) Klu Kling Klan (maybe not!).
Ian-t. Or Ian-K (raftwerk)?
Oh my god Ian, what is it? Have you got your period? What an acrimony! It is not like Kraftwerk are your relatives. Or are they? I think you have read the article in the wrong way and in the wrong spirit really. First the "paternally gratified" is in theinvetrted commas and to me and anyone who hasn't got pre mestrual syndrome, sounds more like someone who knows his shit so well, know what he ahs done so that he is even able to crack a smile if a bunch of kids decides to find inspiration in his work. I think you have been disrespectful yourself. you don't know what was in kling klang's mind when theyc hose the name for the band. i think they have been resepctful. even too much. a bit obedient i would say, in fact they say they want tof ind a solution to amek every party happy. more reasonable than this? and another thing, what you have read is an artcile, whcih is tosa y an interpretation of something that the management sai to the reporter. it is not an official statement, so maybe the manager is an utter idiot - i do believe so - and have chseon the wrong words. it is not like, kling klang have released a statement and blah blah blah. and as far kraftwerk are concerned, i think they knew about the abnd and they decide to wait until they gained some sort of notoriety, by like supporting portishead. in fact they are not sueing TUSSLE who have an album called kling klang. why is that? i don't see all this bona fide from them. remember they had the courage to ask 100000 dollars to a college kid cause he ahd creatde a fan site about them! and they don't even own the trademark of the word krfatwerk. they own the trademark of the LOGO. it is a different thing indeed. and they are not sueing coldplay beacuse maybe coldplay have the msot powerful alwyers and would certainly find a way to strip kraftwerk down. or, more likely, they have received some money from coldplay, out of court, to use the sample. i even doubt kling klang have the money to afford to pay lawyer to give them advice. sorry if i take it so personally. but it is the old "the big against the tiny" thing. why, for once can't be the tiny to win?
sorry for my spelling!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh my god Ian, what is it? Have you got your period? What an acrimony! It is not like Kraftwerk are your relatives. Or are they? I think you have read the article in the wrong way and in the wrong spirit really. First the "paternally gratified" is in inverted commas and to me and anyone who hasn't got pre mestrual syndrome, sounds more like someone who knows his shit so well, know what he has done so that he is even able to crack a smile if a bunch of kids decides to find inspiration in his work. I think you have been disrespectful yourself. you don't know what was in kling klang's mind when they chose the name for the band. i think they have been respectful. even too much. a bit obedient i would say, in fact they say they want to find a solution to make every party happy. more reasonable than this? and another thing, what you have read is an article, whcih is to say an interpretation of something that the management said to the reporter. it is not an official statement, so maybe the manager is an utter idiot - i do believe so - and have cheson the wrong words. it is not like, kling klang have released a statement and blah blah blah. and as far kraftwerk are concerned, i think they knew about the band and they decided to wait until they gained some sort of notoriety, by like supporting portishead. in fact they are not sueing TUSSLE who have an album called kling klang. why is that? i don't see all this bona fide from them. remember they had the courage to ask 100000 dollars to a college kid cause he had created a fan site about them! and they don't even own the trademark of the word kraftwerk. they own the trademark of the LOGO. it is a different thing indeed. and they are not sueing coldplay because maybe coldplay have the most powerful lawyers and would certainly find a way to strip kraftwerk down. or, more likely, they have received some money from coldplay, out of court, to use the sample. i even doubt kling klang have the money to afford to pay a lawyer to give them advice. sorry if i take it so personally. but it is the old "the big against the tiny" thing. why, for once can't be the tiny to win? Cindy-spellingismyvocation
Personally...
I can't see what was so wrong with what the management say in the article...
"admiration for Kraftwerk’s immense contribution to modern music"
"We do understand where Kraftwerk's request originates from and that we will do our best to find a way to make every party happy and to solve the thing peacefully because we do admire Kraftwerk very much"
.....
And they are very respectful with the 'paternally gratified' thing. The quote is placed into it's own context by DiS so the surrounding sentence is unavailable - which does little to make this sound a sincere statement, but it would be. I'm sure that if you name a band after the song of an influence then you would be delighted for that band to have heard of you. I would imagine that this is the equivalent of Kraftwerk selling out a concert or lots of albums - surely it is the biggest compliment a band could hope for from fans? Better than a cover song - it is basically saying "We love this band and that song! Enough to be associated with the name throughout our careers".
And why paper over the fact that Kraftwerk have a habit of suing people and why not speak your corner and tell it like it is... Ian-T, it is completely naive to think that Krafewerk had not heard of Kling Klang before now - how did that slip through their chain of command? What are they doing now, running airport/border patrol or something up in their iron tower in Berlin? RED ALERT RED ALERT SOME SCOUSERS CALLED KLING KLANG HAVE ENTERED OUR DOMAIN...! I DON'T CARE IF THEY ARE MY SONS, TAKE THEM DOWN.
We can be heroes just for one day
See, the band disagree with the manager. They are fans, I told you, they just wanted to homage their heroes. It is so obvious!
the management
seemed quite complimentary to me but with a hard edge too... What every good manager has.
It helped this get press and give Kling Klang publicity... That is their job!
WHATEVAH!
i guess it is important that the band pointed out they weren't on the same page. it is right. bands need managers but they have to maintain their own opinion. it is like saying oh yeah Alan Mcgee thinks this while oasis think that. probably they don't want to expose themselves too much cause the matter is really delicate and they realize this and don't want to seem to cocky! hey thetenneryoulost, are you the manager??? or amybe you are dating him???? just joking!
I'm sure....
Alan McGee would want to distance himself from Oasis' opinions rather than the other way around, no?
Please get your facts right. I'm pretty sure it was a girl but I'm not a fan of assertive women - I prefer them in the kitchen and not making any comment whatsoever. ;op
I can't believe you've felt compelled
to try and explain these simple things to these cretins below. What a complete waste of time.
"I just think people should relax in life more".
Jesus wept.
????
Make yourself intellegible, mate!
????
I mean, what do you mean???? It is not clear. Why being cryptic really? Nonsense
Obviously...
by quoting me and my saying that people should relax in life more he is trying to say he can better that quote. Maybe? I don't know.... I will stand by that comment until the day I am no longer.
Relax in life more.
Relax!!!
Man, we don't need no primadonna here, rofl! Or you meant "ROLF" or better "RALF" ah ah ah! Kraftwerk have their spy on us!
What's to understand?
This was in reply to ian-t. The fact that it says "cretins below" is because i didn't realise how many posts had been posted in reply to the same message, so mine has ended up at the bottom. Still, the fact you can't grasp what even i'm saying proves my point further. Ian clearly laid out why Kraftwerk are in the right to be trying to stop KK from using their name and you've made fools of yourselves with your series of "oh yeah??" responses.
You're obviously members of Kling Klang or friends of theirs.
*scrunch!!*
Did you hear that? That's Kling Klang clutching at straws!
ah ah ah!
So you are employee of Der Kraftwerk Wermacht!!!! Ian has been the one who got more heated up by the entire thing. C'mon, he posted a thing long 10000 words at three in the morning! So it is enough to suspect he is some kind of Kraftwerk insider! But we joked about the thing! I guess all the people defending Kling Klang are doing so because they like the band. So yeah, I can call myself a fan. So what? That makes me stupid? Tha makes me uncapable of considering a thing unfair? Who do you think you are to judge people like this? Why you have to be so aggressive? You too, premestrual syndrome? Or maybe your sexual life sucks...
I'm sorry you think that
He genuinely could not have come across more level-headed and calm in trying to explain this quite simple issue to people. Yeah, it was long, but it all made perfect sense. And if you think i'm being aggressive, you really need to check your dictionary (i'm thinking all of your "how dare you!" questions make YOU look a little hot under the collar, but i don't really mind).
I really like Kling Klang too, but they're monumental idiots and anyone defending this looks completely ridiculous, especially when they have absolutely no grasp of how these sorts of things work. Even more so when you factor in the fact that they have to lower themselves to taking cheap pops about people's sex lives. Seriously man, how old are you?
ps. Your post was almost as long as his, and you posted it twice.
pps.
You signed up to the forum to post in this. You look utterly daft and if you want to do your band/your friend's band a favour, you should quit now, because i don't think you're helping them.
Your comment
Stood on it's own to the left of the page.... That is no reply button clicking position to be in!
Calling me a cretin is actually wrong and, to be honest mate, the bahaviour of a cretin. Too many people find it so easy to say these things on boards. Hiding behind technology!!!!
When you look at the fact that Ian thought 'Kraftwerk' - the word - was trade marked, you see he is a fanboy blagger.
I'm going to trade mark the word 'And' so help me God!
Relax in life more... can you guess what it is yet? A message board with opinions... This wouldn't be news if it was so clean cut.
Don't sell out like they all do!!!
Yawn!
Yes, that is true. I signed in to post a reply to this and so what exactly? I friend of mine told me the news. And so what exactly, Colombo? It is illegal to post in here? I have never hidden the fact I am a fan of Kling Klang or Kraftwerk. The article talks about them so it is quite natural for me to intevene. I am not 18. Like you. And you are indeed aggressive. Infact you are the one calling people cretins, idiots and so on. You are really rude. Where did you grow up, in the jungle? My post was a reply and was meant as reaction to some ill-hearted comments. And another thing if you want to offend people, fair enough, but offend people who can actually answer back, which is to say people who are posting here. As far as I know none of the people posting here are members of Kling Klang, so no need to involve them in our cheap cat fight. So address to ME or THETENNERYOULOST or JOHNNYZAZA or DAN. oh yeah, all of them signed up to answer this cause Kling Klang pay us! You are not even able to let people understand what you mean... You should check on the dictionary the meaning of the word "cretin", cause you dangerously match the profile...
But,....
He was misguided and wrong about trade marks... he knows little about it.
What I know is that Kling Klang could use the name if Kraftwerk did not have a problem with it... But, Oh no, of course not.
It is still not clean cut. The courts and whoever would have to decde whether the name causes enough confusion with the general public.
There is no other band called Kling Klang. Kraftwerk use the name to seel merch and it is a studio but this still gives Kling Klang a case and if they can prove that Kraftwerk heard of them a hile back (which, let's face it, is likely) then they have no case at all to answer to.
and I am going to
update my profile in here so you'll see how hot i am. But you are not gonna get some! XP!
Look at the distance from the left
between my reply and the post at the bottom of the page. You nonce.
I'm perfectly relaxed. Hey, i just thought we were having a debate about Kraftwerk kicking shit out of your band and you fumbling around for loopholes?
If i could go back and call you something else instead of 'cretins', i would. Sorry to have offended you.
ps.
If you were to put the name 'And' on the front of a cd and have it sell millions of copies around the world for 40 years, does that mean someone else could do the exact same too??
The word might not strictly be "copyright", but if you can't grasp this simple idea, then you've got something wrong with you.
nonce
I'm not even going to bother with this conversation anymore.... Who cares where your post came up anyway. You were cryptic and typically clever and above your own station.
Don't go calling people nonce's. I won't even respond, it's cowardly and pathetic.
Grow up.
Oh, and as for the loopholes business, why not? Why not try and fight instead of getting bent over by some stuck up, low on cash, has-beens like Kraftwerk?
Yes
I grew up in the jungle. I really did. You've won our arguement by spotting this! Well done! And i'm a cretin too. Wow, you're really good at this.
The first person to reply with "Yawn!" loses... oops!
Seriously though, i'm really having trouble reading your gigantic paragraphs. My eyes are not what they used to be.. sigh.
man.....
sorry, boy... I was pointing out the fact that this Ian character stated that the word 'Kraftwerk' was copyrighted... It is not and can't be...
I do understand that someone else couldn't do this but how many albums have Kraftwerk sold under the name Kling Klang? It is way off the point.
Oh C'mon!!!
Kraftwerk are everything excpet "has beens". Sorry mate. The have made history. Check your sourcesc ause they are still pretty hot shit. There is a difference between being sort of greedy/too picky and being overrated. And low on cash? Er, no! Not at all!
I understand
Yes, the jungle. Shortage of carrots... They are good for the eyes! A pity really, cause you won't see how pretty I am! ;P! Yawn? I lost? Oh no! I won't sleep tonight!
Aaaah...
Come on... ou're right. In the words of Josh Homme
'You can't be a has been if you never was'
Thought that may piss off a couple of people... haha, ah well.
Videodrome, I told you I don't like assertive women. Please don't question me. Where's my supper?
In the
shitter. Go and grab it.
Cute
;op
Yeah
You're right. We were meant to be together as well. Ah well, next time...
I am a
LAAAIDY!
I reckon...
You are a big hairy bloke Motley Crue fan...
I'm not buying this Cindy, 22 business. Too many images of suburban America and watering lawns for my liking.
And so...
...from the ashes of DiS's petty Kraftwerk arguement.. the love of two gibbons did flourish...
My response...
Too many to reply to individually so I sent it as a new post. Hope that does not confuse anyone too much.
Acrimony? My period? Ian Kraftwerk? Calm down Videodrome! What makes you think I’m upset or angry? Just because I take an interest and pass comment on a legal issue between two bands does not mean that I work for, or I am related to them. My comments have made no personal attack on anyone. I haven’t even mentioned whether I like Kraftwerk or not (I do, but that is not relevant to anything I have discussed). I did, however, complement the English group Kling Klang on their music.
Maybe I have read the article in the wrong way as you suggest but what is it you think I have read wrong? The “paternally gratified” quote? I would assume it is in inverted commas because it is a direct quote. I would assume that it was said tongue in cheek. If they really do think that then they should not be so presumptuous. It’s not important to me since it doesn’t change the facts of the case; it is just an opinion about music ideals.
Of course I don’t know what was going through the minds of the English group Kling Klang when they chose the name. I would assume that it was a love of the early music of Kraftwerk. That’s nice, but not relevant to whether they can keep the name or not.
The article is an interpretation of the incident but does have quotations and says what the manager and band state. What they are saying does not seem to be in question. I do not wish to question the integrity of the journalist. It is the motivation for what is being said, and its outcome, that is being discussed in the blog.
It may well be that Kraftwerk have known about the band for some time but have only acted now that they are becoming known. If the band were to remain fairly unknown and fizzle away then there would be no need for concern as the confusion would be minimal. Regarding Tussle’s album; I don’t think the name of an album is so easily confused with the writing and publishing of the music, but that’s my opinion. I cannot speak for Kraftwerk, I don’t know them and have never met them.
Regarding the trademark issue. Common words can be trademarked so long as it is in use by the organisation for a purpose other than the definition of the word. If you have a company trading under the name of “And” then you can trademark it, so long as someone else has not already done so for a similar type of company. It is not just the logo that is protected by Intellectual Property. My source for this information is the UK Intellectual Property Office guidelines on registering Trademarks. Their publication uses the example of registering the word “orange”. Read my previous comments on this.
As regards Coldplay, I refer to my previous comments, and I don’t know what the financial arrangements were, if any. Regarding the “big against the tiny”, read my previous comments on the David versus Goliath as a cheap publicity tool.
I have not papered over the fact that Kraftwerk have a habit of suing people. I have said that Kraftwerk have created something very unique and precious in the world of art and music. I think it is up to the creator to decide how freely that should be shared and not be bullied into accepting ideals of others. Kraftwerk built their work through integrity and not jumping on any publicity bandwagon that came along. Maybe people should be inspired by that as much as by their music. When Afrika Baambaataa released the ground-breaking Planet Rock, heavily sampling Kraftwerk they sued him. This did not result in the banning of the single, it did however get reissued with credits to Kraftwerk on the label.
If I choose to write long responses at 3:00 AM then so be it. If anyone does not like the length of my responses or the detail I go into, or the time that I send the responses then they can ignore them. But obviously they have not been ignored. I am not doing this because I am angry, or because I have a personal involvement with Kraftwerk, neither are true. I just despair that people need to make such assumptions.
Rolfharris – thankyou for reading without prejudice.
Let me summarise my point of view.
I refuse to say whether I think Kraftwerk were ethically right to threaten to sue the English group Kling Klang or not. To me that is an issue for Kraftwerk only.
I don’t think anyone is disputing the following facts:
For over 30 years Kling Klang has been the registered trademark for Kraftwerk’s merchandise company, as well as the recording studio which is fundamental to the unique sound of the band.
The English group Kling Klang have been around for nine years and relatively unknown (or at the very least unknown for most of that time).
Kraftwerk do not want the English group to use the name of their of their merchandise company.
The group do not want to change their name.
My point of view is this: I believe the English group Kling Klang chose the name as a tribute to a band they admire. You can identify the influence in their music. Unfortunately there is confusion about what Kling Klang is, as it has for so long been associated with Kraftwerk. I personally would like this confusion come to an end, and I am not alone in this. It is not for Kraftwerk to change the name of their company. Kraftwerk are doing what they must do to end the confusion and I do not believe they are trying to be vindictive to the English group. I totally understand that the English group don’t want to change their name, and may choose to fight this. I don’t blame them for trying that, I just think they will lose.
It is ridiculous to say that Kraftwerk are doing this for publicity, or out of envy. What I do think is happening is that the management of English group Kling Klang are trying to gain publicity by publicising the story and portraying the old David versus Goliath scenario which automatically gets public sympathy for the little guy. The little guy has the least to loose of course. I, and many others would never have heard of the English group Kling Klang if were not for the fact that there was confusion with Kraftwerk. Hypothetically, it may well have been the case that there was another less known group called Kling Klang that had registered the name, in which case they would find themselves in the same situation. This is what happens when you become famous. The name has served them well up till now. Now they must be original and stand on their own two feet. Or perhaps ask Kraftwerk if they can be named after another one of their tracks? I would be very disappointed if the English group were to go down the cheap publicity route the manager seems to be pushing. While it may gain them publicity, they will be better known for stealing from Kraftwerk rather than for their music.
I can't!
Please Rofl, tell the tenner here I am taken!
Thanks
For having taken the time to explain your position in every part and detail. This is your opinion. I reserve the right to have mine that slightly differs from yours.
At this point I hope the band will change their name and still prove wrong all the detractors. That would be a real victory in the end. Because what remains is that they could even call themselves the britneyspears. the music is good and no one can deny this I believe. Long live "the britneyspears"!
As for the little guys having little to loose... i don't think that kraftwerk would be happy with peanuts really. they sued a guy for 100000 dolars. oh my! at the end of everything I am happy to know that the "english band called kling klang" are still around and recording.
Amen!
wellllll......
That was looooong.
OK, you can stand you have good points and a well-constucted argument but my point is more base on morals and humanity!
"I have not papered over the fact that Kraftwerk have a habit of suing people" - was directing this at comments stating the manager said the wrong things... Sod it.
At the end of the day "paternally gratified" was taken out of the context of it's original sentence it seems, and so has lost it's umph and honesty for me. But I don't feel it is that tongue-in-cheek....
You thank roflharris, a guy who called us 'cretins' and me a 'nonce'.... He is some gentlemen.
Bottom line is Kraftwerk are obviouly spoil sports, I hope they suffer with the reputation of having hearts of stone.
ps
No publicity is bad publicity ian-t!
Their manager turned the negative (being threatened by Kraftwerk) into a positive (getting a story over the Internet)...
making the most of situatiosn is what good managers do. However they are remembered, they will certainly have more people clicking on their myspace and listening and just maybe liking.
It's good business sense.
^^
Stand your own*
Agreement.
I agree with you. I hope the band change their name and have even more success. I believe this is what Kraftwerk would want too. I am happy that they are around and making music.
Sued a guy for 100000 dollars, or threatened to sue? They just want to stop people from using the names Kraftwerk and Kling Klang. Unfortunately the only way to do this is to put a monetary value on the names and demand payment. I doubt they took any money from him.
Publicity and Integrity
I thanked rolfharris for reading without prejudice(rather than acussing me of being angry, misguided, an insider, or having a period??) not for calling anyone names.
I fully agree that part of the manager's job is to get publicity, and he has used the old David vs Goliath trick to do that, and it will result in more people clicking on their myspace. I just find it ironic that people are accusing Kraftwerk of being greedy publicity seekers!
You were misguided...
The manager's name suggested it was a girl...
Kling Klang did register their logo. Not the word, that would be silly... But they can still argue that others cannot use the name in the same context but it is not set in stone. Many bands share the same name...
It is up to them...
It is ironic too that by shirking the spotlight and publicity you gain more publicity and notoriety for it... It is under-handed publicity hunting. Very clever.
Like The Raconteurs - the irony was that the new album probably gained more press due to it being released without prior warning or marketing.
It is all a plan to gain more headlines, don't you think? Clever indeed.
I do agree that Videodrome is a conspiracy theorist with an overactive imagination but she does crack a good whip and make a strong point all the same... I tried to tell her that women should stick to kitchen duties but... There is no telling some. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile....! ;op
When allis said and done...
Legally Kling Klang will probably lose.... But morally, Kraftwerk must question themselves- although I couldn't put myself in their shoes so can't judge.
If my hero just tried to sue me I would burn their records and change my band name anyway!!!
Kling Klang should calls themselves Shaftwerk. Maybe not, but they should put this behind them and tell the story to their grandkids.
Haha
You're lost... trapped in his radar beam of lurrve! :)
Why was I misguided?
"The manager's name suggested it was a girl..."
What was a girl? What is that about?
"Kling Klang did register their logo. Not the word, that would be silly..."
They registered the word "klingklang". Why is it silly to register a word?
As i said above
It's clearly someone involved with the band or a friend of theirs clutching at straws trying to pick out even the tiniest bit of your post that could be debated. Completely pointless.
TL;DR
Kling Klang should rename themselves "Mohammed"
peace
The name of the manager was a girl's name, of course we are still stuck in the 1800's so that might be out of the question in a 'garlic bread' kind of way.... Oh, I couldn't copyright that. Could I?
I meant Kraftwerk didn't copyright the word...
As for Roflharris, If you read what I have said I just take the other side morally but feel that the band should change their name - not out of respect of TM's but out of disgust.
Hello Rolf
That may well be the case, and I am happy to debate anything that I have said. It's just I haven't a clue what he is wanting to debate?
Do you know what he means by "The manager's name suggested it was a girl..."?
Also, I don't like him "agreeing" that videodrome is a conspiracy theorist since I never claimed such a thing. Maybe she is, so what. I would also like to distance myself from any sexist remarks even if they are intended to be in jest.
Apologies to the manager
The article dosen't name the manager. Is the manager female? Did I at some point refer to their manager as he? Is this why I am misguided? oh dear, what a fool I am!
The article says they registered the trademark "klingklang". It dosen't say they registered a logo. Why is it silly to register a word?
Kraftwerk
registered their logo, they were unable to register the word 'Kraftwerk' - that is my point... It would be silly. I am not aware of the Orange case but Kraftwerk is a different matter.
You just can't go a register a word - it needs to be distinctive and original, hence Kling Klang as KlingKlang - one word....
The article has been re-edited without quotes from the management. Who know why.... You are no fool but you were misguided - Therefore, having not accused you of being on a period or an indiser or angry I am not in any wrong! I don't know why that matters but such is liiiiiiiife...
Nobody knows
what you're babbling on about now.
Plus, what is this about the manager's name? Where does it show that? No idea what you're on about.
I think you're the manager. What a tit (oops!)
Misguided?
When you originally said I was misguided it had nothing to do with the irrelevance of knowing what sex the English groups manager was. I quote “He was misguided and wrong about trade marks... he knows little about it.”
Of course you can register a word as a trademark. Orange (the mobile phone company), Apple (The computer manufacterer; who were sued by Apple records when they also went into the music business selling ipods), The Beatles (music group), Amazon (online shop). As a matter of fact you don't even have to register the trademark. If you have been using it for long enough it has protection in common law. This does not mean that nobody can use the word without paying royalties; otherwise David Attenburgh would owe a fortune to Paul McCartney. That would be silly.
When you register a common word or phrase as a trademark it must be associated with a business or service that that name is not descriptive of, and is unique to. For example, a fruit seller cannot register the word “orange” but a phone company can. A registered name cannot be used by another organisation in the same line of business. Hence the English group cannot use the name Kling Klang because “klingklang” is already registered by a music based organisation. The registration protects against anyone using a SIMILAIR name where this might cause confusion. The English group have no case. If this were not the case then any band could call themselves the Beatles, and any on-line shop could call themselves Amazon, so long as the did not use the same logo. So you see, it is not silly to register a word or phrase.
Logos may also be protected as trademarks. Hence you cannot copy someone else’s logo and put your own name in it using the same font and colours.
Now please explain where I am misguided and wrong.
TheTenMillionQuidYouLost
Think they will have to rename themselves Bankrupt if they don't sack the manager pretty damn quick.
Morallity indeed
Pretty good story for the grandkids: "Well years ago we had a band called Kling Klang a name that we stole from Kraftwerk that got us lots of noteriety. When Kraftwerk warned us we were no longer allowed to use it our manager decided to fight over it. And the was the end of the band."
Don't think Kraftwerk have any moral questioning to do. If it was not for them the English band currently known as Kling Klang would not exist, nor many of the electronica, techno, hip-hop artists etc. Do you see Kraftwerk cashing in? Do you see them selling books, boasting about their influence? No at all. Other respectfull artists do that for them. Kraftwerk's main influences were (as far as I'm aware), The Beachboys, Stockhausen and Iggy Pop. Did they steal from them? No. They uncompromisingly created something brand new. No cheap publicity, just pure art. What do they ask in return? Don't use the name Kraftwerk or Kling Klang. Don't sample or cover our music without permission. Just plain basic decency and adherence to basic copyright law. If more groups took this attitude on board there would at least be some new and original music to listen to.
I doubt they have much money at all anyway...
Lighten up Ian-T, geeze.
You sound so sewn up tight with all this 'pure art' and 'no other bands would exist' stuff.... Without Elvis none of these guys would be around but I'm not going to go nuts over it.
Oh and "What do they ask in return? Don't use the name Kraftwerk or Kling Klang. Don't sample or cover our music without permission. Just plain basic decency and adherence to basic copyright law."
Misguided = The name has nothing to do with copyright law. But I'm only have a piss about...
OK, let's put yourself in exactly the same position. Why would you just roll over? This is the business of rock 'n' roll and if it was my band I would stand up fopr what I believe in. I think after so long you would have been quite attached to the name.
But, like I acknowledge, legally Kraftwerk have the high ground. I think Kling Klang should move on and call themselves Kling Klang Liverpool. Like London Suede, but people would still call 'em Kling Klang anyway.
And Rofl, the original article had quotes from the manager and their name but it has been editied. that is my point, now stop smoking so much ganje and sort ourself out.
Guys???
Get a life! I can't believe you are still here. TheTenner I remember seeing name, but the post have been edited a million times in fact all the quotes we were argueing about have been removed. So, yes it was a female name, but who tells you she is a girl. She could be some old sob... Anyway, Ian-t, sorry to point out this but "the best defense is the accuse" trick doesn't really work. You are swinging from "oh yeah they are a good band" to "oh yeah they are a bunch of thieves". I think that the only insider here is YOU cause it is not normal that someone waste so much time in writing heartfelt defence of a band (Kraftwerk). unless you work for their label. a thing i am now pretty sure of, cause you know things, you have a lexicon and so on. well, if kraftwerk need to put around people to stick by their cause that is silly and pathetic. it means they are not so sure of being right. it doens't seem to me that the english band formerly known as kling klang have release an official statement. what we have here are some words by some manager and a string of events. not enough to assume anything particular. the only thing we can do is to express a point of view, with the naivete of the fans i suppose. but still there is something dodgy about your way of posting. you appear from nowhere, you come out with clever well structured points and strategies. I don't know really. it seems a bit too "corporate" as far as i am concerned. we insult each other, say stupid jokes and behave stupidly. you, no, you are calm, precise and PREPARED. you even went around looking for trademark regulations! and when someone tells you (me) about a story i have read about a guy being sued by kraftwerk you have the courage to say you are sure "they didn't take the money", while the story is they have settled the thing out of court" i.e. paying some money. why why why defending them like this? seems to me this is definite PR stuff. I don't know who you are but you are clearly some insider guy. and i think that rofl is one of yours too. you have been discovered since you first posted in fact you felt obliged to say you weren't working for kraftwerk. why is that? no one was saying that. we were joking about the thing. but your being so damn clever and prepared, well that stinks of PR to me. and as far as me, i am not a kling klang manager, my name is Cindy Cummings (yeah, like the poet), I am 22 and a student at Goldsmiths College, London. Want my number? I was born and raised in stratford east london, i have a dog named cyrus and a boyfriend named Matthew. and no, none of Kling Klang is named Matthew. and with this, I am leaving this conversation cause it is boring and it is clearly manouvered by some label wise guy.
And.... you got me
I am Kling Klang's manager and Chris Martin's cousin, so bring it on bitches!
It is so clear now... You have basically refused to agree on any points involving morals or basic good will or anything....
Your argument has been so one sided.... This was the first website in the world with the news and it is obvious Kraftwerk's label have sent you to try and make it out that their fans are sticking by them. Shame is you were outnumbered on this forum from penny one.
Good day. See you in court.
Hahaha
what a loser.
Hahaha
what a loser.
Casablanca?
SO YOU ARE A GIRL THEN? ok ok ok. i said no more posts.
I might be...
But I am posting no more either, so you will just have to use your imagination.
Lighten up? !
So TennerYouLost and videodrome are posting no more, and roflharris was right in sussing out the manager. TennerYouLost says he will see me in court and videodrome is still convinced that I work for Kraftwerk. I have twice answered that I don't, not because I felt “obliged” to, simply because I was asked and I politely answered the question and with honesty. TennerYouLost never did back down on calling me misguided regarding Intellectual Property law but never justified himself. Umm, good luck in court! And yes I would roll over and back down if it became clear I was in the wrong, and especially if I could not argue my case.
I know that poor debating and communication skills are common in blogs but when videodrome says :
“there is something dodgy about your way of posting…you come out with clever well structured points and strategies….. .. you are calm, precise and PREPARED”
Am I supposed to apologise for that?! Actually I’m not prepared. I just happen to know a lot about Kraftwerk and fair amount about Intellectual Property. I didn’t have to go and look anything up. It dosen’t take that much longer to write a post than it does to read it.
Finally, it has been pointed out by videodrome that I swing between referring to the English group currently known as Kling Klang as being a “good band” and a “bunch of thieves”. These terms are not mutually exclusive. Good band from a music point of view, bunch of thieves from the fact they persist in using someone else’s trademark. I hope they are better remembered for the former, but if TheTennerYouLost is the manager, I doubt that will be the case.
Finally to conclude. This is my opinion and people may well disagree:
I believe Kraftwerk have made a very great contribution to music. They have been in existence for nearly 40 years and have not plagiarised anyone or courted publicity. I believe they have earned the moral and legal right to keep the band name, the corporate name and the music protected. The fact that they have a reputation for suing is because they are too many people who want to take that from them. Too many stupid people that don’t care or can’t comprehend basic principles.
You don't fool me. Amen
OMNIA MUNDA MUNDIS!
I was joking on the misguided thing...
Come on man! I was finding somewhere in which you were misguided and it was calling the manager 'he'. It was all in good humour.
You seem to have the sense of humour of Kraftwerk themselves.
I know Kraftwerk have the right to refuse people the use of the name, I just feel that it is a shame that they are threatening to sue Kling Klang. It is a shame.
I don't for one second believe (do you?) that Kling Klang the band intended to take from them or misguide the public. It's just a cool name.
Is it becsuse they are scousers you feel they are a bunch of thieves?... Joke!
Come on Ian, I know there is a heart beating somewhere beneath that metal frame.
^fuck me have you got nothing better to do?
zzzzzzzzzzz.........
that was intended for ian-t
who mysteriously appeared on the matter of Kraftwerk and I am convinced is their UK Agent/PR or something...
TheTenner, You Lost!
Accusing me of being misguided in my knowledge of Intellectual Property, being unable to defend your arguments, then clutching at straws in a failed attempt to justify yourself was quite humorous, I agree. Now you are trying to suggest I have no heart and no sense of humour. Oh dear.
I like Kraftwerk’s humour. People who understand them see the humour and warmth in their music, the subtleties of which are emphasised by the apparent emotional detachment of their image. You should discuss this with the members of the band currently known as Kling Klang.
I don’t know the band well enough, but I would assume it was not their intention to misguide or confuse the public. The fact is they do. My judgement on the band’s integrity is where do they go from here? If they were to acknowledge the problem and try to correct it without the need for legal action I would respect them. Unfortunately, they, or their manager, decided to make this into a publicity stunt and I really have no time for talented people disrespecting other artists that they claim to pay homage to. They have gained in publicity, but lessened their integrity. They are in fact paying homage to mediocrity.
Nothing better to do?
Good lord! you don't think it I spend all my time doing this. I type fast and write about what I know. Have you nothing better to do than read a blog then posting a pointless comments?
assume
makes an ass of u and me. What do you know of anyone else's intentions, or of their understanding of humour? This smacks of pomposity.
I'm sure Kraftwerk would agree it's best not to judge people by what others print about them.
Fair enough
Replace "I assume it was not their intention" with "I would give them the benefit of the doubt that it was not their intention" I am responding to a question that asks me what I believe about someones intentions. Maybe I should not try to answer it all.
Replace "People who understand them see the humour" with "I can see the humour".
ok? :o)
INSIDER INSIDER!
Thanks Johnny! That is what I have been saying for ages! Ian-t gets all tender and moved when he talks about kraftwerk and their wit and sense of humour and music. I do like Krfatwerk. very very very much. my cousin used to play them when he was babysitting me. they are some of my first memories of music but still I don't get all wet if i think about them...
Tenderness
You don't! :o) You describe me as all tender and moved and TheTenner thinks I have no heart or sense of humour. And you, TheTenner and Johnny are all convinced I work for Kraftwerk regardless of what I say. None of this bothers me of course. Just don't know why you all bother persisting with personal stuff. Well, the debate has moved on. The band currently known as Kling Klang have spoken. So I will follow the outcome of that. (Retorical question: What difference would it make if I was working for Kraftwerk anyway? TheTenner was the one who went under-cover, not me. It wouldn't matter if she had declared her interests in the first place, the debate would still be the same.)
The Tenner has attributes
The Tenner is a male... You can tell by his writing. While the manager was said to be a female. Moreover, I as well think you are a member of Kraftwerk entourage trying to manipulate opinions and direct the feelings of the board. You, ROBOT!
Now I'm a robot :o(
If I need to refer to him/her again I will not be gender specific. I was just going on the information he/she supplied. He/she declared that he/she was the manager and previously said the manager was female. Not important at all (well maybe for TheTenner).
I know that you think I'm some devious "insider" working for Kraftwerk. I don't know why you, and others, feel the need to keep saying it. It dosen't bother me that you think that. It is just not the case.
I'm more interested in coming up with
Pun-based support slots for Bruce Springsteen at the Emirates to be honest... You should give it a try Ian-T, but you sound more like a cricket man to me ;op
Looks like Kling Klang have abandoned their manager... What else have I got to do?
Ian-T - the problem is that your entire argument all along has been too one-sided. You have never given any breathing space to Kling Klang, unless you have been prompted. You insisted they were trying to gain added success by using the name and you always, always felt that Kraftwerk were 100% in the right... It just seems like you are giving your case to the jury while the rest of us have been accepting the fact Kraftwerk are in the right while also realising that the situation needn't be like this. Why couldn't they drop them an email or a phone call or go for a coffee? they had to go in with the bulldozers straight away. I just think it is a shame but you have been completely one-sided all along it just seems like you are trying to convince people a little bit too much.
You speak about them as if the are Godlike and people should feel 'eternally gratified' for their work in the music business and never ever try to step on their toes because they are so much better than anyone else. That is what it has seemed liked.
Hence the reason people would be suspicious you were an employee of Kraftwerk.
i like kraftwerk as much as the next man
but not as much as Ian-T obviously. A couple of comments, no i didnt read any of your recent comments, my eyes glazed over. Secondly do you have all of Kraftwerk's faces tattooed on your tiny knob? Get a life mate.
Ian-T
let's hope there isn't a thread criticising Laibach or we'll be here skim-reading/ignoring your posts (delete as applicable) for months as you unleash your furious venegence on anyone who dares to criticise the perfect high art of Laibach or for that matter Kraftwerk. I think I am going to form a band this afternoon called Craftwork this afternoon and make primitive eight bit analogue synth music.
oooo
Actually there is a band from the Scottish Highlands called Croftwork that I like. Seriously!
and I'm calling my band...
The Klang Kling Klang
or Klingerty Klangerty
or Kliiing Klaaang
or Kling! Klang!
or Shaftjerk
Reply for TheTenner
WARNING THIS POST MENTIONS KRAFTWERK AND ART
JOHNNYZAZA DO NOT READ!!
First of all let me be clear on this (even though it's not likely to be believed). Kraftwerk are not the only band I like. It is not the only music I feel passionate about. I did not side with Kraftwerk just because I like them. If they were wrong about something I would say it.
Just one point that I cannot entirely agree with (and honestly I'm not looking for another argument)
"It just seems like you are giving your case to the jury while the rest of us have been accepting the fact Kraftwerk are in the right "
That is the case in the latter posts. Now look at the early posts. Only one person said Kraftwerk had a point. You yourself said
"Shame is you were outnumbered on this forum from penny one."
It was because the attacks on Kraftwerk were wrong, that’s why I posted. And as Magnus Magnussan would say "I've started so I'll finish"
Leaving that aside;
My argument was one sided because there was only one possible outcome. Legally Kraftwerk were, as good as 100% right on this, and it is the legal aspect that would determine the outcome. Morally, I would not normally take a clear stand. If the dispute was with another artist, say, David Bowie or Bruce Springsteen, I would say that they, and most bands, have borrowed a fair amount of ideas from others. I really see Kraftwerk as quite unique this way. They have not followed any formula set by others, or clung to any trend. They will not release anything that they are not 100% satisfied with, even if that means nothing is released for a decade. So when it comes to defending their intellectual property, it really is THEIR property. That's how I see it. And I can't really think of anyone else I can say that about. And there are other bands I really love.
Kraftwerk's method of communicating their point, I agree, does seem to be a bit heavy. I don't know why that is. Maybe they just let the lawer do it his/her way. Maybe it happens too damn much and they are pissed off. Maybe people just ignore it if you don't hit them hard. Maybe they are just ruthless bastards. I don't know. I hope it is not the latter. If Kraftwerk give the English band Kling Klang a really hard time over this I will be very disappointed. I hope it is a case of "we are serious!" then things are dealt with quickly and amicably.
I am certainly not one for the cult of celebrity, and I don't think of any individuals as being Godlike. I do however agree with you that it seems I portray them as such. The concept of Kraftwerk, the image, the sound, the music, the harmonising of man and machine pays homage to lot of, particularly, German art. The concept of Kraftwerk is quite Godlike. But that is art, not rock music.
Although Kraftwerk have heavily influenced the world of pop/rock/hip-hop, they are not a part of that genre, and not trying to be. They did not come from and are not owned by the pop/rock world. They have a lot to protect but not everyone sees that.
Now I don't know what will be said about me after that, but never mind :o)
And thankyou for taking an interest in my motivation. If you have more questions best mail me privately.
So in the end...
We kind of agree on things.
My posts throughout this blog have defended the rights of Kling Klang, not on the basis of law, but just plain human understanding with a wink and a handshake. It was naive and perhaps unrealistic of me, but I am an old-fashioned romantic... what can I say?
"If Kraftwerk give the English band Kling Klang a really hard time over this I will be very disappointed."
I was glad to read that... I have felt all along that Kraftwerk's methods have been a little strange. I'm sure Kling Klang would have been happy to be contacted in an informal manner, told the legalities and been given the chance to sit down a talk about a possible resolution. This would have prevented any kind of news story from getting out there too... It would have been ridiculous for 'TBBFKAKK' to disclose the information to anybody outside the two bands and their parties - if anything, a leakage would have given Kraftwerk a reason to threaten a law suit (if that makes sense!?). This would have been much better for Kraftwerk, although I still argue that the story in it's self has given TBBFKKAK some much welcome publicity, although bad. What band has never had bad publicity???? It's all relative!
Kraftwerk's methods were a shame because it made it seem as if they did not like Kling Klang. This may be the case but it would be more understandable if directed at, say, a twee band or something.
I can't fault your passion for Kraftwerk, as musicians/artists... It is nice to see someone with such passion and I am highly respectful of the links with German art as a whole, it is distinctive and brilliant stuff... Just glad you agree that you are very pro-Kraftwerk and maybe a little blinded by their work(?) - it's no bad thing, just glad you are being a little more objective now, accepting that not everyone sees these things like you...
Perhaps Kling Klang were naive from the start but it is not like they are a buzz band coming out of nowhere after getting together last year - nine years is a long time, they probably think of the word as their own now and I hope they find a solution that doesn't totally undermine what they have created over the years.
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