The Weekly DiScussion: has the smoking ban affected your gig-going?
It’s one month, pretty much, since a sea change occurred in the way we experience live music in the UK. The banning of smoking in public places and a variety of places of work has led to music venues cleaning up their acts, quite literally. No longer are we squinting at an indie-rock four-piece in some basement somewhere through a think fog of caustic smoke. No longer are we walking out with the smell of another man’s habit on our shirts. No longer are we running such a high risk of developing a life-threatening illness just by enjoying our favourite bands in a live environment. For all the pluses, though, we can now smell the bogs...
But, a month on, what’s the feeling amongst the gig-going public? From a non-smoker’s perspective – hello, I am a non-smoker – the change has been brilliant. I can now, should I wish to look like a tramp, wear the same grotty band tee out and about the night after sporting it at some dive of an indie disco. It’ll be sweaty, sure, but at least it doesn’t smell like cigarette butts. The need for individuals to go outside to smoke, too, hasn’t been too much of an issue: most of my friends are non-smokers.
However, there is a degree of disgruntlement within the live-music-loving ranks. London’s Koko’s decision to permit smokers only seven minutes to have a cigarette before they will not be re-admitted to the venue, and its policy of fingerprinting smokers on their way in and out, has led to criticism. “Unnecessarily draconian” is how website Londonist.com summarised the system, with one reader commenting:
“I'm disgusted that a club can think it's a good idea to do this. Koko really are pushing smoker's buttons here. I've accepted the ban, even as a smoker. But I refuse to go anywhere where I'm told how long I can stand outside for. Smoking outside is not a crime, and no one is taking my finger prints! I love Koko, I think it's great there, but until this policy changes, I'll keep my nasty yellow stained fingers to myself and putting my beer money into someone else’s pockets.”
Having to go outside for a cigarette is nothing new to gig-goers who’ve travelled a little – in New York, for example, smoking within live music venues has not been permitted for some time, and the streets are regularly clogged with addicts needing their mid-set fix. But the shock of the instant ‘from this day forth’ policing of the UK’s ban has quite obviously ruffled feathers, with certain people going so far as to suggest the ban will effectively ruin the live music industry, enjoying something of an upwards trajectory over these past few years. A user of Yahoo Answers asks: “Do you think the smoking ban is killing the music industry?”, leading to a variety of responses…
“Extraction fans and a separate partitioned area for non smokers. That’s what is considered normal in other countries. Everyone is happy.”
“No way. And even if the music industry is suffering, that's just the price we are going to have to pay to keep smokers out of public places! Obviously cigarettes are more important to them than good music!”
“All the non-smoking do-gooders in this world wanted the ban... they got it, now they are whingeing about the smell of the toilets, the empty pubs. Young musicians trying to get a break now have diminished audiences. Some people are only happy when they have something to moan about.”
So, DiS wants to know what your opinion is. Are you a smoker whose enjoyment of live music has suffered because of your need for a cigarette every half-hour? Has the ban helped you quit? If you’re a non-smoker, have you noticed a significant difference in the atmosphere of recent live shows? Can you breathe more easily, as it were?
DiScuss…
If it means
people stop lighting cigarettes in the middle of moshpits then i'm all for it!
Certainly the gigs I've promoted since the ban have had good attendances
although obviously people spend more time outside than they used to.
i went clubbing the other day
and we had to que up to go out for a smoke! madness. however, in general i dont really mind (insightful post #776)
It hasn't killed live music
in other countries so i feel it won't here either. It does obviously effect your gig-going if you smoke. You can't during a set, which may annoy some people. I feel its more than made up for by having to go outside with all other smokers during the set. Its usually a pretty sociable atmospher with everyone talking about the act that's just been on. Half the time the band are there too. I hadn't heard about time limits set by some places down in london and think that is fucking stupid. As long as you have a stamp/ticket what's the problem with taking as long as you like.
Summary: Ban is good. Smoke less, socialise more when having cig. However, time limits on smoking = utterly crap
generally good
It means that I don't have someone's smoke trailing into my face while watching bands and also don't smell of smoke after the gigs. However it is annoying that most of my friends who I go to gigs with smoke so I then end up with the option of standing round like a muppet by myself or joining them outside. However hopefully when the winter kicks in and they have to stand in the cold might persaude them to quit.
i like not stinking of fags
i don't like it when you're the only non-smoker in a group and everyone else buggers off leaving you looking after their bags and drinks like some kinda loser or is that just me?
it's noticeable how many people i know have stopped or cut down considerably tho, which having had a grandparent die of lung cancer, is obviously a good thing, in most cases.
Not smoking during a set
shouldn't be too much of a change - you haven't been able to smoke at the theatre or cinema for ages.
"It’ll be sweaty, sure, but at least it doesn’t smell like cigarette butts"
What? That's...disgusting!
^ this happened to me the other week as well
Not good at all.
i live in canada
the ocassional bar has a smoking room which is good if you don't enter and really disgusting if you do. on the whole everyone smokes outside the venue in little cordoned off areas. the people who go outside to smoke make new friends, the people who stay inside get a chance to get to the front of the bar/stage. i'm not sire winter will deter people. i live in winnipeg and people smoke outside in temperatures of minus 30.
I'm a smoker
It's made not the blindest bit of difference thus far, other than me being able to get away from my mates for five minutes to have a rest.
That said, I've not been to a particularly large venue yet (of Koko size etc) so I don't know what will happen then. It probably, once more, won't make much difference apart from the massive stack of fag butts on the floor outside.
clean clothes, clean hair
I no longer have to wash my face and hair and clothes after a gig, unless of course it's a particularly good gig..!
winter doesnt deter
you're right.
-25C in toronto and i still went outside...
good good
I've only been to one gig since the ban but it's great! No more smelling like smoke after every gig can save quite a bit of money! It actually feels better in the venues now, not as stuffy and especially more space when the smokers need to get their fix.
I just remembered
i've been to two gigs since, but i don't like to count one of them because the music was horrible and i wasn't really listening.
rubbish
The power of nicotine is stronger than I thought!
so like
how does the law affect festival sites? Technically all 'shared workspaces' ie building sites are covered, as are temporary structures like marquees. So does that mean you're going to get your collar felt for sparking up at the back of the carling tent at reading - or, indeed, at the middle of the arena?? if so, it's gonna really piss off some stoners...
enquiring minds need to know.
I still think
That bars should have the right to choose.
Pubs simply arent the same. For people who dont smoke it must be very nice though. I guess. Im also Gutted Ill never get to go to a Sheeshka pipe bar now :(
its been
banned in Scotland for a while. all in all its good. im a smoker but smoke less. sounds pretty terrifying at koko mind. atmosphere is good when you go out for a fag but you get treated kind of shitty in bigger places. biggest complaint is that you cant sneak a cheeky joint which for gigs like sunn0)) etc really sucks.
I don't like it
Yes it makes me smoke less.. Yes it makes me healthier and feeling better in the morning (especially when being taken to wales for hillwalking the next day).
BUT! Crewing a bands show Band in the Mean Fiddler - We can't fucking smoke - outside is miles away.
At the Decks at Festivals/Venues often there for about 4/5 hours - we can't smoke. I love having a fag and playing a ace tune and watching the crowd go mental.
Bouncer nazi-ing... I walk round the side of the venue with a rolly to check what the promoter paid us. Bouncer wades in...'Can't stand there - must stand here' in the huddle... I was looking for a seconds privacy... My reply of free 'Free Country' got 'you're not coming back in then'...
Pah... At Latitude Festival there was security going round tents getting people to leave if they were smoking meanwhile some campsites where being robbed.
Think that people are so empassioned about the smoking ban and the penalties common sense goes out the window a bit.
birmingham academy
wouldnt let people back in if they went outside for a smoke when i went last
Gigs are much nicer, for sure.
But not having to breathe in or smell of smoke isn't reason enough to effect my decision to go out.
Festivals...
...will sometimes be hit, sometimes not. The rule is that any shared workplace must be non-smoking if more than 50% of it is walled and it has a roof - and doors and windows don't count as openings. So if a marquee has more than two sides, you can't smoke in it - even if the sides are rolled up I think this still applies, possibly to stop people getting stuck in a smoky tent which has just had the sides rolled down, or something. I don't know.
But the grass outside the tents will be fine.
Incidentally, these rules even apply to purpose-built smoking areas. Even if it's been built specifically for smokers only to get out the cold, 50% of it MUST BE OPEN TO THE ELEMENTS, presumably because otherwise the smokers could sue each other for giving each other lung cancer. "Yes, I know I was smoking unfiltered uber-cancers, but my tumours are totally due to passive smoking from your two Camel Lights a day and not at all my pack-an-hour habit. So PAY UP."
On the other hand, this does mean that if you use your car for work you can use the smoking ban as an excuse to buy a convertible, because that doesn't count as an enclosed space and you'll therefore be able to smoke while driving even if you're employed ferrying chronic emphysema patients and asthmatic kittens to and from the oxygen tent.
I'm not sure this has been entirely thought through, y'know.
But I do think that other folks right to not get cancer from my cigarettes is less absolute than my right not to get a bit chilly while I smoke.
Obviously...
...you'd have to keep the convertible roof down while you smoked. Anything else would just be SILLY.
And yes, you can be fined for not displaying a "No Smoking Here By Law" sign in your own car if you use said car for work and carry other people around in it. I believe the maximum fine is somewhere around the £2000 mark. Best get on it, folks...
Edit
Their right is MORE absolute than mine. D'oh.
I love it
I never liked smelling of smoke after going out. I love the fact that pubs and clubs are now smoke-free environments, by and large.
Mind you, I don't think people are fully aware of the rules, or are ignoring them, when it comes to marquees and the like.
At Godiva Festival a couple of weeks ago, despite signs all around the tent saying it was no smoking, people still were.
Either they were deliberately ignoring the signs, or were just unaware that the venue still fell under the ban.
And no-one seemed to be enforcing it either.
Atmosphere
I went to see DJ Shadow at the Indigo2 (the 'music club' venue within the newly re-opened O2 dome) a few weeks ago, and found that the combination of the squeaky clean venue and the lack of cigarette/spliff smoke in the air (as you used to get at similar gigs at Brixton Academy) definitely dampened the atmosphere.
At all day things
like Live Earth at Wembley, it sucks big time. I was there from 11.30am, they won't let you out of the venue at all, and it finished at 10.30pm. Even with one of those nicotine patch thingies on, I got pretty irritable. Other people I know who were there simply got more pissed. So it's possibly making venues more money and people more drunk.
With smaller venues, I think it's great. The smokers outside are sociable and you get chatting. That said, I wonder what effect it will have on support bands? In the past, probably half the time I'd turn up for the support. I'm much less likely to be inclined to do so now, in venues like Brixton, etc, where you'd stand from 7.30pm til 11pm and not be let outside.
So - yeah - I do agree wholeheartedly with the ban, but I think a bit more thought for smokers wouldn't go amiss.
ill give a thought for smokers.. mirri london
i'm glad your not pouring cancer causing smoke into the air which i then have to breath while i'm trying get a drink/wathc a band/eat now shut up you selfish idiot. if people want to smoke too right they shouldnt be able to do it where it affects non smokers. it's the sensible and obviously positive thing the government has done for...a long time.
shit the bed
at barden's they let like 10 people out at one time with a little pass to get back in.
and
it's just plain odd that in some cities you can't smoke indoors, where as in other places you have tobacco companies sponsoring shows and handing out free packs.
different cities
different countries. time for bed.
Surely there should be some accomidation though
Smokers getting treated like crap is not good.
smelly
I went to a gig last night & it was lovely that I didn't choke on fag smoke. What was less lovely was the stink of farts. Keep 'em in people.
If I had my way
I'd ban smoking outright. I haven't been to any gigs since the ban, but I've been to pubs and cafes. It's great being able to go out and not have to cram my inhaler into my bag and coming back and not smelling smoke on my clothes, hair and pillow (in the morning that is - obviously I don't take my pillow out with me!)
However when you want to have a cup of tea outside at a cafe (and when the weather is nice and there is outdoor seating, who doesn't?) and you realise that even with all that "fresh air" you're still coughing and breathing in smoke, it gets on your nerves. I had a bad cough/cold recently and foolishly thought that sitting outside would help as I'd be getting fresh air and my temperature would be cancelled out by the cooler air. What a silly idea. I even ended up with some woman sat on my table who not only lit up when she could see I was coughing, but then proceeded to start complaining with some other smoker about how she didn't like being told where she could smoke.
So if I had my way, I'd ban the whole sodding thing. There's no benefit to smoking a cigerette. No-one in their right mind would suggest it was their right and their choice etc to go and sit in a burning building because they wanted to have a couple of lungfuls of smoke. I hate walking down the street behind someone else's stream of smoke just as much as I hated sitting in other people's smoke in pubs and clubs and bars.
Don't get panicky though, the government won't do something this benefitial for the country's health until they've at least sorted out the pensions crisis. What a relief eh?
Gosh
What a balanced argument. I say: BAN ASTHMATICS!
at secret garden
all the tents had no smoking signs up, but it wasn't enforced at all and they even had ashtrays on the bars. dunno if it would be the same at a massive corporate festival though.
...
living longer on account of not getting lung cancer and contact lenses not getting so fcuked by the smoke :-)
smelling people's B.O and farts down the front :-(
.
The gigs I've been to since it's been enforced have had no more or no fewer attendees than before it was enforced.
Plus, I don't have to constantly watch where I'm walking because there are no precarious fire-sticks to burn my arms.
Was I suggesting
it be inside the venue? NO. So fuck off before you judge.
first...
NO smoking, then soon it will be NO drinking, then NO TALKING!
goodness gracious, let us kill ourselves in peace. it's called free will and if you care enough about the effects of cigarette smoke (indeed not the only cause of environmentally-threatening pollution or human life decay) then don't bother with the nightlife, it's nothing but an opportunity for everyone to smear their filthy habits all over you, it's a contact sport!
...but then again, my eyes don't burn out of their sockets at gigs anymore due to the lack of the smoke, but the smoke clearance allows me to realize how unattractive everyone is. LAME
now if only we can just....
... institute a bad on musians who can't tune up or have no competent performances to share then gigs might get realy really good.
...
Pros: You don't smell of smoke afterward.
Cons: You discover the smoke covered up the smell of BO and urine.
woh there little feller........
that's a bit strong isn't it? You are arguing that things you don't like should be banned.
In the grand scheme of things, somebody smoking a cigarette outside a caf is going to do less damage to you than a whole host of cars, trucks, aeroplanes and factories spewing CO2 and other nasty chemicals into the atmosphere.
I appreciate that you don't like smoking, and i entirely agree that it is an entireley pointless pursuit, but is it not down to the individual to choose what they want to do? i am not here to post an argument with you, but the passion you showed for banning smoking outright shocked me a little to be honest.
i am a smoker, and like many smokers i am all in favour of the ban, but telling people that they cannot smoke at all, when drinking is equally as damaging for your health. Do you want
prohibition?
Anyway, i have to go. i have a cough at the moment. Maybe i will steel the office asthmatics inhaler, and push her down the stairs...........
Is this is pisstake?
I never understood this whole individual liberties argument about not banning smoking.
yep, we don't care if you kill yourself by smoking, that's all good - you know the risks and noone's forcing you to do it.
Complaining about having your right to give other people lung cancer taken away from you is a little selfish though, no?
I feel 50 times better since they did it
It wasn't just smelling like an ashtray that was bad, it actually genuinely made me ill. Anyone who invokes the 'civil liberties' clause on this is missing the point - and worse still, depriving me of my right to not stink.
Separate sections didn't work - if you went out with a load of people, this meant everyone stood in the smoking area to accommodate those who did, so it didn't help at all.
Basically, I avoided going to small pubs and certain gig venues because it wasn't worth feeling ill during or afterwards. How anyone could say that was justified before is beyond me.
Finally, people who say that security have been overzealous in implementing it - I'm not always a big fan of security (some venues are better than others) but in their defence, smoking on the premises could now land them fines or even lose them their license. They've been employed to keep the venue from trouble so they don't have a lot of choice. It's a bit like shouting at a traffic warden when you park on a double yellow.
Still, just to rile the people who say "you'll never be happy", it now annoys me that you have to walk through a smoke 'curtain' to get in virtually any building these days.
Hurumph. I'm really quite nice you know. I always get the first round in.
Feller?!
Now I am on the warpath lol.
Fair points, there are bigger and worse things than those delightful little cancersticks, and yes I know I will never win the arguement for a full ban because, as you correctly point out, drinking and walking down the street can cause just as much damage. But a girl can dream can't she?! And she can be in a nark about other matters and vent her narky spleen on unsuspecting comment boards on occasion? Sometimes. Maybe. Sorry :(
i've definitely gone to more gigs since
including quite a few mates' gigs in small venues (that i usually avoided before, as they used to be some of the worst), also a lot of free/cheap small shows that looked interesting. previously i had really cut down on going out as i can't stand the smoke, only went to stuff i really wanted to see and also preferred smoke free venues (yes there were a few, RFH, Bush Hall...)
so yes, very positive change for me (and most people, including many performers!) i think with gigs it was particularly bad, especially the sold out crammed ones that you often get in London. it's all very well to say "just don't go there if you don't like it" but if you want to see a band and they only play in places where people were allowed to smoke you had to put up with the toxic haze just to see the gig. so glad that's no longer the case!
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