in Tottenham though, so nobody will really notice WAHHHHHEYYYYYYYYYYY
some prick shoots at the police and gets brassed up?
Any word on whether the dearly departed ever had trials for Leyton Orient yet? That's the usual spiel.
I demand a lamp post be adorned with banners proclaiming him to be TRU SOLJA 4 EVA
but they've never really (and with good reason) had the trust of that particular community
Alright Ronnie Biggs, calm down.
celebrate the brassing not the name calling!
because the deceased is 29
because the metropolitan police and London's black communities
there was a march earlier that passed off without incident, this is likely just the fringe idiots. there were some pretty bad riots in the area in the 1980s and very little of the underlying social problems of the area - decaying infrastructure, lack of investment, lack of opportunity - has ever really been addressed in a meaningful way. this is more of a catalyst than a reason.
the police line is that it was a pre-planned operation to arrest him, although i can't find any information on what for.
we can guess what they'll be anyway.
They should twin it with the Daily Mail
they just direct their bile from differing angles.
Do you see? ( that's one from the archives)
you might not agree with their political stance, but there's really no way you can directly compare the mail and the guardian in terms of what they do and how they operate and the end product they put out.
cg is better at this than you, and you're better than this. JUST SAYIN'
respective online comments, that is to say extremely low.
This isn't trolling, although referring to the Met as The Pigs may well be.
and I found them to be helpful and courteous. But then I lived in a gentrified area and was the victim of a druggie burglary, so there you go.
The City of London police, however, can go do one.
after someone I was out with exchanged some misunderstanding-fuelled drunken words with someone, and this guy told some cops a few minutes later that we'd attacked him, and we all got minor roughhoused a few streets away. I appreciate that they have to take allegations seriously, but there were four of us and one of him and they should probably have used a little more selective judgement, rather than throwing out the macho bullshit like they did.
you look like a wight geezer
as they were big fans of The Streets and wanted to know. It was hard to do without using further British slang that I then had to explain.
i hope they burn absolutely everything
Due to the overwhelming desire to get the view of the 'man on the street' they kept getting callers who were saying stuff about buses and shops being attacked. Idiot radio host then started worrying whether the caller might be one of the protesters and therefore biased. They hadn't worked out that during a riot, the man in the street is holding a brick.
north of Kettering
or caught up in one?
in their thirst for 'justice' burn and loot shops in their community..
That said, only picture being shown so far of the guy who got shot, and he's making a gun sign in it.
do you even know what the word 'riot' means?
THAT COULDA BEEN 'IM!
Looting doesn't mean it was a protest against consumerism. I very much doubt they were thinking of that given the circumstances.
the riots were a "reaction to Thatcherism Part II".
after a teenage girl was batoned by po-po at the initial protest:
whether true or not (and given the Met's capacity for violence and general ineptitude, it could be) speculation like this can be the flashpoint for trouble even if there's nothing to substantiate it - similar to Birmingham in 2005.
I think I'd lend more credence to Class War or Schnews (if that's what they still call it).
that was the only online link I could find to it. I've no idea whether there's anything in it or not, obviously.
it's like Pravda!
the police don't seem to have said what he was wanted for though
Usually they just have an automatic lock.
am I right?
I'm guessing your family are prozzers.
What a weird use of rhetorical questioning! Why when casting aspersions on the veracity of a publication would you want to make it clear that you have not read or even seen it for long enough to wonder if it is still published?
a Le Coq Sportif shellsuit in XXL amongst the charred remnants of that looted JJB Sports
Doesnt go any deeper than that.
in terms of the BROKEN SOCIETY that conditioned them to think it was ok to do that, it pretty much does
Rationalise all this to me now in your condescending high horse way, pal
How a community stands up for itsef by burning its own community down and robbing its own communities businesses while terrorising its own communities. Its a bullshit excuse to have a rumble, if it ever happened in the midlands I'd be the first one lobbing bricks and robbing TV's.
this is undoubtedly true for some people (altho yeh there are questions about why that's the case they were more than two people there you know.
i dont understand how you or still_here could think it was like, 6 hours of just people looting. just looting, looting, looting. why would that be possible? (and if we were, does it raise questions about police response etc. - like those raised by the local mp whose name escapes me for the moment)
*if it were
I've definitely mentioned the throwing of bricks and burning stuff down. I could definitely fill 6 hours with those 3 actvities
ok i read that as being sort of elsewhere. yeh ok fine as you were then. - the point i was getting as, and it doesn't really contradict what you are saying was i believe it started off by throwing bottles and stuff at the small police presence and then spread out...
...into looting etc.
a riot did.
We all like to let off steam some time, if you can get a few ipods out of it then all the better
now loads of tube-accessible prime sites have opened up for regeneration, so Tottenham can get some more of those four storey apartment blocks with balconies and orange panel cladding on the outside and a Tesco Metro on the ground floor,
the rioters should have carried 2 by 4s.
He got woken up at 6am to go down there.
I havn't spoken to him yet.
there are really no lengths people will go to to disassociate themselves from the middle class.
I suppose that's what being middle class is all about really isn't it. That or the complete opposite.
Yeah anyway my point is there isn't any right-on justification for the looting and anyone that tries to justify it comes out looking like a really unintelligent turd.
just pointing that there are reasons beyond somebody wanting a free blu ray player.
or very tenuously at best
burn and kill everything
suggest he was a loving, thoughful young man who will be a loss to his community
the reports that the poor shot brazillian man was a) running from police b) leapt the tube barrier c) was wearing a ruksack d) was wearing a bulky jacket.....now the official enquiry will no doubt be able to provide a better account, but seriously, at present you cannot know whether he had a gun or not, past cover ups/fibs have made it so that we cannot trust the immediate source in these cases
but that doesn't mean i trust the rioters account of what went down because i distrust the police.
when it is not at all proven or even guessable as to whether it is true or no....presently we cannot jump to conclusions either way
by the way what does the phrase "there is no excuse for violence" mean? is it just an exclamation like OMG or jfc? cos it seems meaningless
yeh - that weird and persistent phrase: 'rioting is unacceptable'....umm i think you're going to have to accept it dearie 'cause it did happen...any chance you might think about ways of stopping it happening in the future...eh mr. cameron/met police.
there was one just down my road 2 months ago.
i know everyone on DiS likes to do their whole reacting to what they imagine the way people they don't know think about stuff rather than actually thinking about the things themselves BUT i don't think it's combative and anti-police at all to say one way in which things could possibly not happen in the future is if there a more actually independent ipcc and the police were seen to have accountability. there was a repeated mantra on the news last night 'why aren't they satisfied w/ the ipcc investigation' and while i guess to some extent there's a lot of complex factors that make young, largely working-class londoners (especially of ethnic minorities) distrust the police - stop and search etc., would people agree that that specific organisation is one in which people are quite right to not have any faith.
it's bewildering to me for example that the family and friends of smiley culture still don't have their questions answered, events independantly clarified and while i'm sure that wasn't a direct cause maybe it was in the back of some people's minds as a reason to distrust the police - even if we completely accept their version of events, they surely should not have left Smiley Culture unaccompanied once he was in their custody no? i'm not an expert but even on that level someone should be accountable
.'Deaths in police custody since 1998: 333; officers convicted: none'.
admittedly from a ipcc survey but what did they do about it? not sure
official figures showed that just 18 had been struck off for incompetence in the past 40 years.
There is something fishy about these stats
The shooting only happened on Thursday, it's not like those protesting gave waiting for an official inquiry much thought at the time. (Also the IPCC was only launched in 2004, long after the last major rioting caused in some way by police activity)
yes i know that there will be to be an inquiry that was planned since the date...my point was i can understand why people did not give "waiting for an official inquiry much thought" because the body making this inquiry have failed them/other people so often in the past, eg. smiley culture, all the deaths in custody referenced above, the violence of the students protests, simon harwood etc....more examples i can't think off of the top of my head. here's Brian Paddick expressing a similar view: http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2011/08/05/brian-paddick-former-assistant-commissioner-of-the-met-admits-lack-of-accountability/
."The perception of a large number of people in society is that the police are above the law…”.
so why would those people care what ipcc had to say...
...i think we'll agree to disagree on the last point, i would argue there are questions to be asked about how far events at both students protests and stokes croft at the beginning of the summer were, at least, exacerated by heavy-handed police presence that created a 'battlefield' kind of atmosphere before it was entirely necessary....
(questions this man is raising
...but even if we agree i'm not sure how it's relevant to the point because i'm talking about people's trust in the ipcc's ability to get the bottom of police misdemeanours, not particuarly or exclusively riots.
Met Police arresting people in Enfield & Tottenham water-boarded potential suspects!
even as a rumour that can't do much for police/community relations. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6466430.ece
going by the grime mcs & friends on my twitter feed lots of people seem to know mark duggan, and at least believe that he did not shoot a police.
*shoot at police. (that's not to say that i don't believe he did btw, just to suggest that trust in the police is for some people at such a low...that the whole 'oh well it was self-defence' argument doesn't wash...for better or for worse.
according to channel4 news they were right to be suspicious - he had a gun on him, but it wasn't fired.
But thank you for worrying anyway. My boyfriend now thinks you're very creepy :D xx
I don't think you're a creep although this menstral blood thing is a tiny bit weird but each to their own in that department.
I told him that I think its sweet. He just laughed :D x
Yeah. The mantra of a rapist.
but I've just seen my first 'TORY LOOTING THE NHS IS MORE INDEFENSIBLE' tweet.
But I'm actually still a bit poorly guys, so swings and roundabouts eh.
But Jesus: Wood Green eh...That's perfect storm riot-country: Every single building is a shop and every inhabitant is mentally unwell.
No sign of aggro in NW5 as yet...Keep you posted.
This is Ehwhat, Drownedinsound, Kentish Town.
(Thank god, as it's a fairly good Wetherspoons)
Some youths attacking a police car seems to be all anyone can agree on as yet. Guardian's Paul Lewis: "Clearly some disturbances, but presence of riot polices does not always = riot"
and both likely belonged to five-o.
on closer inspection.
well...the guardian wouldn't have gone to press without a source. it wouldn't be something a reliable source would just make up...and a similar idea (that Dunnan did not fire the shot into the radio) has been independently suggested by channel4 ...http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/display/playlistref/070811/clipid/070811_TOTTENHAM_RIOT_07
*Duggan sorry. came over all Boris Johnson for a moment there
cover up being shot at?
i think that information came from the police itself, as it dates back to the first few news articles...and remembering menezes, tomlinson etc. we know how unreliable that can be (whether because of the stress of the situation or for more sinister reasons...idk)
I bet he regrets getting shitfaced at the Twickenham yesterday.
about how the perception of an unchecked police presence can cause a sense of disenfranchisement in local communities, negating the positive work they do and placing societal tensions on a constant precipice
i'll try to remember what it was
That isn't a good movie.
Looting and burning down carpet shops isn't going to provide any answers for this guys death and communities in inner-city london hardly exist anymore. The people dont trust police or authorities (and vice versa) and youths don't trust eachother, hence all the anger.
This was always going to happen eventually and its fucking depressing. 95% of these people just want to fuck shit up for a laugh, not really sure how anyone can condone that.
Carpets are cock and deserved to be burned.
Disaster all round.
line them up and shoot them all in the fucking head with water pistols. Nerf fight!
My friend just sent me a picture of a Nando's ablaze, it seems to be still going on there.
Please, no 'flame-grilled chicken' gags...Thanks.
If they set fire to Chicken Express in Finsbury Park I'll know we're all fucked.
the thing I read the most on Facebook was 'Please don't burn down Chick King'
Fair enough really, that place is incredible.
CHUCK EM INT' FOOKIN CANAL!
Maybe the Met shouldn't have been so loud about sending so many officers to Tottenham/Enfield...
Opportunistic looters, rather than rioters perhaps?
there will be a considerably number of such opportunists out tonight, taking advantage of diminished police numbers.
apparently looters on Holloway Road now as well
jeez, wouldn't wanna be a cop in London tonight
Saw about 15-20 people being dispersed by police outside the Leisure Centre plus one hoodie bizarrely jumping into a garden outside us without anyone else around. Heard reports of one of the slot machine places being hit and people being kept in McDonalds to stop hoodies getting in
The rain seems to have stopped them a lot better than the police have
This strikes me as being somewhat unlikely, but you never know.
My tired eyes keep skimming the news.
as well as being a bit doubtful i'm not sure how contentious/important it is either. fairly easy to believe would leave 6am sunday morning then say 'lets meet up here and 10' and pick up where we left off...this becomes easier and more widespread when you have social media and stuff...i don't think this is as shocking as the guardian report seems to suggest.
as it massively undermines the legitimacy of these 'protests' which you have been vehemently defending.
i'm going to write to the prison warden to tell them to restrict your pc access
seriously tho hope your dad is doing ok if he's still out there.
He got back about 2 hours ago.
There sure were alot of communities around London that held a special place in their heart for this guy who got shot from Tottenham. He must have been an incredibly special human being.
but i think that anyone who tries to vocalise will come up with, as you say, a sum up that will not include all the many myriad reasons that will blend into each other, after all it is not so much of a rational process that causes people to want to riot, its more of a feeling.
Anyone seen anything first hand?
are the papers that seem to think that "a senior officer" going on annual leave on Saturday is in any way relevant. And The Express for maintaining it's standard front page policy in the face of real news.
riots are bad. we all agree on that? good.
when riots happen, it's generally the case that both sides need to take a long hard look at themselves - blame would tend to attach on both sides.
don't know much about Mark Duggan, and i'd wager that a few of the Saturday (and Sunday) night rioters didn't either. this is because riots rely on a spark of some kind to trigger. Mark Duggan's shooting wasn't so much a cause as much as a catalyst - there weren't riots on the streets when Jean Charles de Menezes shot because there wasn't wider discontentment, social malaise and general desperation. Tottenham's a shithole, it's poor, it's desperate, it's deprived - it's basically a London version of shitty former industrial small towns in the north, except where there's nothing really to react against in, say, Stocksbridge, there is in Tottenham.
rioting happened because the country - or more pertinently, society - is in a situation where riots can happen. people are desperate and disenchanted enough. by all means deal with the riots and rioters, in fact definitely do that. but have a look at what the causes - not just the catalysts - of riots are.
last up, this isn't 1981, and this isn't Los Angeles 1992. we've had what are comparatively a couple of nights of relatively small-scale (in the grand scheme of things) disturbances. again, not to say it definitely won't become that if social and economic situations degredate further. but as yet, it's not.
In an attempt to end hostilities, Bill Cosby spoke on the NBC affiliate television station KNBC and asked people to stop what they were doing and instead watch the final episode of The Cosby Show.
that ate some of my post, I said I was reading up on the LA Riots last night and that was my highligh
Was the local on the BBC who said 'It's all getting a bit tatsty'
A personal highlight for me was the missus being quite concerned that they'd torched what she assumed was a nice old townhall type building. No, that's 'Allied Carpets'.
Either way, judging by
it's a building of visual merit, once you get past the (what would've been) easily replaced turquoise signage.
I go past it every day, well not at the moment cos the bus is diverted. I know someone who owns (owned) one of the flats above it.
Kinda wish that these disturbances hadn’t happened during DiS’s weekend nightshift.
Is Alex-in-Ciderland still implying that it’s a good thing that the police shot this guy? His vaguely racist comments and belief in every statement put out by the police made for entertaining reading.
...it's more the 'let's comment on something in spite of not knowing what happened' attitude. Man I hate people who get all high and mighty about things they haven't bothered to research properly.
Bottom line is - no-one really knows what's happened so let's all keep quiet until then eh...
But I’d be wary of throwing around accusations and the like while facts are still emerging.
However, I’d certainly take wild speculation over racism anyday.
...agreed. I can't STAND wild speculation passed off as fact whilst the whole story is still absent.
Didn't really feel what he said was that racist to be honest. A misplaced piece of supposed satire, sure, but...
(Still, sorry for any prissiness that may be knocking about - my girlfriend's Mum lives RIGHT in the middle of where it all kicked off so we're all still a bit shaken...)
since it has emerged that the popo probably shot this guy without any shots being fired back, huh
of those that took part in the rioting would be unfamiliar with.
Show your working. Or do you mean 'racism' in the sense that Guardian readers deploy it, that is to say people that hold opposing opinions?
If he was armed and posed a threat to AFOs who then shot him then it is a good thing.
...but why not save them until we all have a solid handle on what's actually happened?
who will clearly be a great loss to a non-existent community.
You are doubtless more of a narrow-minded cretin than any of the people you will ever criticise. Behave yourself, please.
"Any word on whether the dearly departed ever had trials for Leyton Orient yet? That's the usual spiel. I demand a lamp post be adorned with banners proclaiming him to be TRU SOLJA 4 EVA"
It must have been something else. Unless of course it wasn't due to the fact that I didn't post anything that could be construed as racism.
the offensive and ignorant accusation, is, on, the other hand, fairly indisputable.
again and again after the violent death of a young male of whatever ethnicity in London...'XXX was a talented footballer who once had trials for Leyton Orient/Crystal Palace/Hammersmith Spud-U-Like Irregulars.
Duggan had been a gang member, the newspaper reports in the coming days/weeks will make that abundantly clear. You must live a truly sheltered life if you are utterly unfamiliar with the street vernacular of a certain type of young urban male. Particularly those with a somewhat laissez-faire approach to law and order.
I wasn't referring to black people you desperate cynical little cunt.
but saying things like #Any word on whether the dearly departed ever had trials for Leyton Orient yet? That's the usual spiel.
I demand a lamp post be adorned with banners proclaiming him to be TRU SOLJA 4 EVA#
are pretty thinly-veiled comments on his race.
Also, I’m not familiar with the terminology, but does getting ‘brassed’ mean getting shot or getting killed? I’m not sure that anyone can say whether it’s a good thing or not at the moment, whether it’s the former or and especially not if it’s the latter.
the football trials thing is just an extension of the riff on the identikit nature of news comments. Just another cliche in the vein of bubbly personality / wouldn't hurt a fly / got on with everyone...
That's how I read it, anyhoo.
a genuine thank you for getting it rather than desperately seeking to find racism where there is none.
Can rolling news headlines get any more vague than that...
We were camped away from it, I can't imagine how little sleep you got that night.
...she said it was scary, but nowhere near as terrifying as they'd made it out to be in the letters page of NME.
It was bad enough that year at Reading truth be told... (where I was...)
...think that was when it was the worst although could be wrong.
in 2002-04 - whichever were the last couple of years before it moved to the current site. I remember Reading going OTT sometime around then as well one year before calming down a bit, and 2005 at Leeds when I was there saw a mini-riot (cider tent burnt down, gas canisters and massive bins chucked on a fire at 'Piccadilly Circus').
and was trying to have a dump in a portaloo that was shaking as people pushed down the ones neighbouring mine, getting closer one at a time. Not the most fun shit I've ever had.
the metal frame was still intact and standing, and it was surrounded by a puddle of melted plastic.
...but if I recall correctly 2000 was the 'original and best' in terms of sheer chaos. Might be wrong though, I wasn't there.
I was there at Reading 2000 when hundreds of people set an entire block of chemical portaloos on fire and then barricaded the road from both sides so the fire engines couldn't get through. Then someone smashed over an ice cream van, with the seller still inside, and a young girl got raped.
I went back there for the next 7 years.
I don't think people trashed the streets because their CD players ran out of batteries..
and someone was blinded by an exploding gas cannister.
Got very lucky as one of the gas canisters exploded very close to me. It seemed, fortunately, to be fairly localised, although the SWAT styled security chumps seemed very ineffectual.
I was there in 2002. In the same field and ~100m away from the big toilet block burning. Not sure how, but we slept through it. Genuinely had no idea what was going on until gf came back from trying to go for a morning wee, found a melted pile of plastic, said that we had to get the hell out of there cos it was like a battle zone, and started taking the tent down around me.
some good/bad tales. yeah, seems like '02 & '05 were probably the worst.
I remember seeing the field they were all kneeling in the following morning. Amazing that a security company could actually get away with it.
I was actually in it. It was right when Fatboy Slim was due to come on.
In hindsight, the tent would have been full of shit regardless of that lorries' intervention...
not gonna happen
Damian Thompson in The Daily Telegraph - 'Why Rioting is Disaster for UKUncut'..
It astonishes me how ridiculous comment pieces on newspaper sites have got.
yeh. actually i take this back. don't anyone else read it. dont feed (either) of the trolls!
that really is desperate
"Everyone from all sides of London meet up at the heart of London (central) OXFORD CIRCUS!!, Bare SHOPS are gonna get smashed up so come get some (free stuff!!!) fuck the feds we will send them back with OUR riot! >:O
Dead the ends and colour war for now so
if you see a brother... SALUT!
if you see a fed... SHOOT!
We need more MAN then feds so Everyone run wild, all of london and others are invited! Pure terror and havoc & Free stuff....just smash shop windows and cart out da stuff u want! Oxford Circus!!!!! 9pm, we don't need pussyhole feds to run the streets and put our brothers in jail so tool up,
its a free world so have fun running wild shopping;)
Oxford Circus 9pm if u see a fed stopping a brother JUMP IN!!! EVERYONE JUMP IN niggers will be lurking about, all blacked out we strike at 9:15pm-9:30pm, make sure ur there see you there. REMEMBA DA LOCATION!!! OXFORD CIRCUS!!!
MUST REBROADCAST TO ALL CONTACTS!!!"
he's implying we get easily upset by racism
or vaguely racist or whatever.
FIVE O! FIVE O!
"if you see a brother... SALUT!
if you see a fed... SHOOT!"
it barely rhymes for christ's sake.
"Pure terror and havoc & Free stuff"
^i like this. it's like the joker doing supermarket sweep.
I certainly wouldn't attend a riot if I didn't have confidence in the spelling and grammar skills of the official organiser.
tupac they ain't.
this riot just got a whole lot camper in my mind
*tears of laughter*
HE DONE GAWN BROKE LONDON'S STERNUM MAYN!
Oh good, I'm going for dinner with some friends in Soho so should catch some of this. I'd quite like a new telly.
leading to a bunch of dickheads getting arrested at oxford circus
It's basically a bunch of twats using something as serious as what happened in Tottenham to justify a night of stealing.
I would just like to say that I am gutted for the lawful residents and business owners of Tottenham that have had this thrust upon them. As if it wasn't bad enough trying to get investment in the area this effectively finishes it off as a proposition for new businesses or substantial council spending, even less as an area that may appeal to people looking to move. It will take many years to recover just back to the already bad position it was in before the events of Saturday night. It may even get worse.
won't go very far in way of compensation?
who had his house burnt down and his work van was destroyed too, so now not only does he and his family have nothing as far as belongings or a place to stay, he also has no means of working now either. I think the only people this 'riot' benefitted were the lazy thieving louts, who got a few new pairs of trainers from JD sports.
Then I read in the paper today what he said about it:
"They must be right bastards. They even stole my kettle."
New hero! :D
poor man, there is nothing worse then your lively hood being destroyed and you can't even make a cup of tea.
Ahh typos on a Monday.
if they get to shut down 'predicted protests' and/or pretty much anything else they want for the foreseeable future...
but violence is violence and when you have an uncontrolled crowed as what was seen on Saturday night, the police have no chance in shutting down. Predicted or not.
I'm more au fait with what goes on in Islington than Haringey but I know how hard voluntary and community organisations work to turn round the bad reputation certain areas of London have, attract investment and jobs, try to make them look nicer etc. and all that work gets destroyed over a couple of nights. It's really sad.
Same down in Brixton.
It takes years - even decades - to turn around preconceptions. When we were looking at flats Tottenham came up a lot as somewhere we could afford and which was 'up and coming'.
I fear this will have set it back for years though.
They'll probably be a stigma attached to the place now, insurance companies will charge more for both people living there and businesses, discouraging both from wanting to move into the area.
I hope whilst she's been away, she's had a few upgrades. Like ED-209 elevated legs. Or at least some rockets launchers.
all the shops have their shutters down because of a predicted *protest* which is a great little euphemism.
I don't fancy spending the night at work :(
I *think* the rain made everyone want to go indoors so hopefully it will all calm down now.
I'm gonna take my chances
you'll be fine. If not be careful* :-)
*or maybe you're a little bit tasty, in that case I'll have some new trainers from JJB.
That bit of Mare Street is off limits now, loads of police and ruffians makin' a mess.
or do people on Twitter and press outlets want it to be FULL SCALE RIOTING? Because in the rush hour that might get a little dangerous.
Dear Sir / Madam
West Midlands Police are aware of a message that has been circulated today suggesting possible disorder from 6pm in Birmingham city centre.
The message seems to have spread through use of social media websites, such as Twitter and Facebook, Blackberry Messenger and mobile phone texts.
We are mindful that these messages may be causing fear and concern for local community members and wish to reassure you that although these are unsubstantiated rumours, we will have additional police teams patrolling the city centre and the surrounding suburbs this evening..
A large number of deployable officers will also be on standby in case of disorder.
We are confident that we can provide a proportionate policing response to any given situation and remain fully committed to supporting and protecting all of our communities.
However officers will not tolerate violent behaviour and will be looking to arrest any people who commit acts of violence or criminality.
We would urge anybody with information relating to this incident to contact the Birmingham Central helpdesk on 0345 113 5000.
Chief Inspector Sean Russell
Birmingham West and Central local policing unit
bathing in the stinking polluted waters of amorality with nihilistic relish. scumbags on both sides, law and civilian. no-one has come out of this looking very good.
because of my great internet posting ^x^
Just round the corner from the retail park that got done over. Not sure whether it's good timing or not. Guess I could look at it like going to some place that has just had a massive earthquake; it'll probably now be safe for a bit...
But on the plus side you can probably barter down the rent.
Got off the bus in Hackney and some yoofs were getting off behind us, saying how a load of girls had looted a weave shop and the police were just arresting everyone with a weave
It's like Brasseye.
..."looting a haberdashery. really?".
That the first thing the police chiefs and politicians did today was ascertain how to ensure this doesn't affect the Olympic village / dream?
Also, why did these youths smash up Brixton and Tottenham? If you want to loot some good shit, have some self respect and go rob Richmond or Westminster FFS.
and the story about the riots did say "LONDON, WHERE THE OLYMPICS WILL BE HELD IN JUST UNDER A YEAR"
They've started deleting some now, it was pretty impressive earlier on..
'If the powers-that-be had any dignity, any respect, they'd have called in the military with absolute orders of shoot on sight, shoot to kill. When feral apes are running wild and destructive they simply must be put down. Period. For the sake of decent and deserving society, these feral apes must be put down.
You do this to several THOUSAND and no less than several THOUSAND and you send a loud and clear message. A message that IS understood. A message that will be respected and order will be returned to a decent and deserving society.
However horrific these beyond animalistic feral ape attacks are - and they v. much are - they (once again) demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt........, inherently, pathologically just what the feral ape is. Period.'
that is genuinely warped. some of the stuff posted on the Oslo blogs was even worse.
."some prick shoots at the police and gets brassed up?
Any word on whether the dearly departed ever had trials for Leyton Orient yet? That's the usual spiel.
I demand a lamp post be adorned with banners proclaiming him to be TRU SOLJA 4 EVA".
Thank god everyone's staying calm
Nothing actually happening, but all the shops are shut, and there are a lot of men in their late teens / early 20s by the look of them, in hoodies and caps, standing around just sort of looking at each other - like they're all waiting for someone to start something, and once one does they'll all pile on.
what a trooper
taught him a thing or two about vandalism
If you're down for making money, we're about to go hard in east london tonight, yes tonight!! I don't care what ends you're from, we're personally inviting you to come and get it in. Police have taken the piss for too long and to be honest I don't know why its taken so long for us make this happen. We need a minimum of 200 hungry people. We're not broke, but who says no to free stuff. Doesn't matter if the police arrive cos we'll just chase dem out because as you've seen on the news, they are NOT ON DIS TING. Finders keepers and we all look after each other so if you see someone getting grab by feds then make sure we help stamp out that fuking PIG. M.O.B money over bobbies =D broadcast this to everyone you know and let's get paid!! RE SEND.
Can't be long before the police go from 'watch and clean up' to something a bit more visible.
the Big Society in action :')
they are NOT ON DIS
not sure who she was, just partly blamed the 'long hot summer'.
get me a blender rioting mob, please
but not everyone deserves a blender (by which i mean you)
(nah you can have a blender if you want)
can i have yours?
Clapham Junction now too apparently.
Stay safe London folks.
I keep seeing conflicting eyewitness tweets, where in the same minute mobs will be looting somewhere and then someone else will claim nothing's happening beyond a police presence. I thought this thing was supposed to be useful?
and they appear to not be on my feed.
i do know. hrm.
she's right, anyway
cg hasn't left. he started a shit thread about heroic lesbian no-one replied to...'lefty closed shop' - don't know that means/HAVE YOU READ THE THREAD?!...otherwise don't understand your point, if they'd posted it here they would've been seen as either silly and ignored or disagreed w/ or agreed w/ ...if less so than A-I-C maybe because people like that person more than him so are willing to give them a free pass + what A-I-C said was much more stupid...blah-di-blah-di-blah
i shouldn't have responded but i shouldn't have said 'more stupid'...i think what A-I-C said was stupid...BUT i dont think what that person you quoted was necessarily...wouldn't be the rhetoric (or argument) i would use but i can see why they would think that/why it's frustrating and sad...whereas (i think/hope) A-I-C was just trollin' in saying a man should've been shot - (innocent before prooven guilty? fair trial? etc./harmful to community relations/'death penalty' always bad/don't know full facts/father-of-four/chance to reform?...endless reasons why that was silly)
Oh wait, you did. That's pretty uncool.
Is there anything you won't do for a bit of attention?
Skycopter captures some fantastic Breaking News: http://t.co/aREEpJl
Boss – Anna! Great to see you, how was Sardinia?
Anna – Oh, it was lovely than...
Boss – Great, great news for you! we want you reporting on the London riots!
Anna – oh..ok, I’ll head to makeup
Boss – No! Not from the studio, you silly sausage
Anna - *squeals* Oooooh, I’ve never been in a helicopter!
Boss – not the copter, I want you ground level, best seat in the house!
Anna – oh, I thought Martin was doing the ground reporting
Boss – No.....Martin can’t make it today......got a.........Doctor’s appointment
Anna – Doctor’s appointment?
Boss – well, I guess technically it’s a surgeon’s appointment but....LOVE what you’re wearing! I think this will really compliment it
Anna – Is this a stab vest?
Boss – anyway, you have fun out there kid, stay safe......but not at the expense of getting some great footage!
Crikey! Look at them go! This will make for a ruddy fantastic anecdote for all those chaps back on my indie message board!
so we know where to find the body
compared to "film them and arrest them in the morning when they're tired"
There were a couple of days of news about them when the student riots kicked off.
along with the tear gas and the baton rounds and the police won't be deploying any of them.
if you believe knee-jerk reactions on twitter.
This is all so very depressing :(
shop windows smashed in and around the bullring/temple street.
BBC now reporting it.
on 4OD? anyone know?
Smashed windows: about 5
Riot police: about 70
Its pretty messed up
The fire on TV was at the other end of Rye lane.
I saw the Clayton Arms getting its windows stoved in and the burning skips outside Manzes.
What else is going on?
The police pushed the kids away from peckham high street pretty early on, but then decided to just stand and watch as they laid waste to the south end of the street.
It was all pretty calm with so many police closing off the north end of Rye Lane.
My friend in Croydon has people looting right outside her block of flats. Lucky she's on the 7th floor.
I'm not even joking when I tell you that there is an ice cream van chiming at the bottom of my road, about 2 minutes walk from the madness.
He made such a big deal about the police dragging him out of his wheelchair, but I can't believe he's not dragged out of his wheelchair by *someone* at least twice a day, and the fact it was the police on that occasion was just incidental.
those tweets were pretty disagreeable yeh. i believe the independant have errr, 'fired' him or said they're not going to publish any more of his blogs
Saying we'll never catch the rioters, because they have trainers and the police are in boots.
Police in running spikes from now on then!
Water cannons, as well as an anti-rioting tool, could also be used to put out the fires.
*Setting fire to a building and stepping back is an exciting thing to do.*
Their selection is pretty poor.
clearing the DVDs, CDs and games from the shelves, only to get home and discover that all the display cases are empty.
arriving in Brockley.....
oh, who am I kidding.
there won't be any riots here, but i'll have to contend with the millions of police vans going down to peckham all night long.
currys/pc world, argos and sports direct have been looted by 200 odd people
The guy owns a pub and has lost his livelihood. Its just awful. Everyone involved is an utter cunt.
guy on the phone in croydon just going mad as he can't get to his girlfriend and daughter in their flat.
Surely they can do that. That how things are spread and organised, aren't they?
and no causes of riots before the internet.
I just thought things would be spreading quicker via the internet these days like some kids tweeting shit about where they're looting.
Looting is one thing but these fires are too much.
to be slightly less facetious about it, people will still call/text each other etc, and shutting down communication systems can have a negative effect (spreads panic).
there was talk of shutting down bbm, which i believe one of the main forces in how this one was (in part) organised...but i think they decided not too.
with all the censorship under his regieme.
to check their friends are okay, and share information about where it is and isn't safe to travel to.
these guys obviously want a fight with the police. Send some people in who will actually fuck them up
Anyway, that bit on Sky News a minute ago with a dual screen thing was kind of funny. Croydon burning on the left screen and people in New York clapping on the right hand screen about the stock exchange. If you had just turned onto the news for that several seconds it would have looked a bit odd.
plus a lot of second-hand ex-business refurbs
It's an interesting aspect of it.
They still target business as well, but don't have such a stranglehold.
Stealing hamsters? STEALING FUCKING HAMSTERS!?
taking them out of the shop to protect them from looters?
hopefully all going to nice homes.
Aka he obviously Isn't actually in Italy
Dunno it's anywhere else as well.
heard there are a lot of police helicopters and anti-riot police deployed in bristol city centre but i think that may be just precautions rather than anything actually starting...i don't think it will, tbh.
...not sure it really matters but may as well put it out there
speech on the riots and everything will go back to normal.
has been a fucking disgrace.
a few smashed windows, burning bins and broken glass on the roads, but nothing on the scale of anywhere else. Any truth in the rumours of a burned out police car and shop further down Roman Road?
please say it aint so.
but the response from police so far seems pretty tame. I mean, this stuff isn't politically motivated anymore even if it was, it's just large scale criminal activity that has emerged as an escalation of an event that had relevance to some issues. So why are the police letting this stuff happen? I mean i'm not advocating causing serious harm, but the use of tear gas and stuff would be good at dispersing the crowds wouldn't it? And would be pretty justifiable.
i'm not but if i was alex jones i would suggest there might be something fishy going on
i'm not but if i was some boring labour guy i would suggest lack of strong leadership from cameron etc. have stopped police taking action...when Cameron returns tomorrow he is charing the COBRA comittee which is going to push for 'SERIOUS ACTION' to happen - well if you'd do it now, why would you not do it before? who knows.
i would say however that dispersed people, people running away, isolated incidents, incidents taking place in complex metropolitan areas where troublemakers can run through back-alleys and over-roofs, lack of police (annual leave, cuts) mean that it's more difficult to use those kind of measures.
there's a finite number of people who condone these peoples actions.
especially when you'd consider some people would argue it's the olympics that (to some extent) damaged Hackney before today/fact money went into that rather than youth centres etc/community projects etc.
that's pretty much exactly what's happening at the moment.
Can't comment on the video itself because it appears to be taken down/over capacity or something.
it's probably over-capacity. like everyone tweeted it at the same time
i'm not sure she should of. she's not an elected politician or a paid member of the commentariat; she's a member of the community saying look "*for whatever reason* you are doing this: it is counter-productive, dangerous and destructive. stop doing it."
i can't disagree with that.
nonetheless the fact that politicians/commentators are more interested in talking about bullshit technology & projected motives than having any discussion of the issues concerned at all...makes me wonder whether these frustrations are going to go away...is it a good idea in a riot situation to encourage this sense of us & them? people looting shops want/or expect to be condemned surely?
by 'want to be condemned' i just meant in terms of that specific act. i'm saying that whether 'mindless opportunism' (whatever that means) or 'deliberate political protest' (whatever that means) looting and smashing stuff up is meant to show anger against the police & politicial establisment. the terms of the debate focussing on endless politicos saying how terrible these people are just plays into that 'us-against-them' narrative. maybe the news (if possible) would be better served trying to speak to shop owners and members of the local community giving their version of events.
i don't think Birmingham is as bad. police have been somewhat more on it there. unlikely riots will continue in daytime? (hopefully...good luck to her anyway)
FIRES IN MANCHESTER.
THIS IS FUCKING BRILLIANT
And from that footage they're heading my way. Haven't seen any sign of it yet though, also haven't heard a single siren. Police must be so stretched at the minute.
I've got a date planned tomorrow. Is planning to go out for a drink somewhere in north/central London a silly move given how things are going?
I mean I suspect even at the moment you could be in all but a handful of London streets and be absolutely fine but I'm not sure you could have predicted beforehand which streets those would be...
You'll get on like a house on fire etc etc
well film. just little clip. the reason i posted it because the footage of those guys talking is really interesting, and i don't know. it captures how sad it all is
i think he did it quickly just a quick response to watching the news and being shocked etc./a way of processing it. it's not his top-quality work. unless you're objecting to the content of it? in which case i think it's just taken from news, and well, is actual footage so...
anyway it was probably silly to post it.
say there's stuff kicking off there, things smashed etc
round the Sainsburys petrol station in New Cross. Looked a bit ominous, I can imagine it kicking off in New Cross.
What the hell is London gonna look like in the morning.
As an aside, I bought a flapjack in that Sainsbury's once.
keep saying there is nothing political about these riots and people shouldnt hijack it but then talking about causes that are totally political
how are people so stupid
retweeting of a single picture currently, no one has actually seen it. which kind of sums up twitter.
but thats a pure 10/10 right there
i thought it was tables, ladders and chairs
DEY TRYIN TO SILENCE US
All carrying lots of Footlocker carrier bags.
but their produce seems to be in high demand by the rioters, curious
If they touch the local Cake Boutique I'm gonna lose my shit.
but yeah, smashing up little shops, not cool.
Not that smashing up big shops is cool but smashing little ones is far more not cool.
obviously these people arent doing this in a direct protest to the cuts but that doesnt mean they arent related, I couldn't imagine something similar happening a few years ago, since then money has been cut from communities, services have been shut down, young people have no prospects, these are all valid political points
but I don't think the time to be making them is while things still appear to be escalating.
I mean if you're a politics-following leftie they're reasons to be pissed off but it's actually too soon for the impact of the cuts to really be felt in communities on the whole. I think there's a lot about the economic and social gap between the rich and the poor which feeds into this but to balme the actual cuts is a bit of a misnomer as it's actually a bit too soon for people to spot how services are affected.
unfortunately, but the effects of austerity are only just starting to be felt, if people are honestly rioting based on that the next couple of years are going to be pretty tough to put it lightly.
the youth budget and the youth unemployment programmes were the first to die.
The first one they cut is the one I've spent 18 months working on for one of the poorest parts of London. The funding in most cases kept running 'til March of this year and things kept rolling on for the last few months and the services have only just gone. Plus the youth employment situation was hardly spectacular even when they were running. I don't doubt the youth employment situation is relevant to what's going on but the cuts themselves won't have been felt to a huge extent yet.
I'd maintain it's still too early for it to be justifiably linked to this scale of rioting.
its been clear for a long time that young people have been bearing the brunt of this recession and it seems like the government were happy to make that sacrifice, I can't see these riots having sparked off so widely if it weren't for the widespread underlying discontent and that is atleast partly the responsibility of the current government, I know the economic climate is probably the biggest factor but its up to the government to manage this and to ensure groups arent disproportionately hit
trying to justify the riots. fucking rediculous.
You might be waiting for a while
but actually guardian takes the biscuit. it's rare I read something that makes me feel properly angry but they always seem to manage it.
Anyway I was in clapham junction this morning by coincidence. I just called my best friend who lives on lavender hill 10 mins walk up the road. he's holed up with some bats and a gun cabinet nearby. how can people be so fucking stupid to destroy the city they live in? I swear animals must laugh at us.
has cheered me up.
because it's quite obviously not. it's people who want free stuff from jd sports.
but people seem very keen to link it to the exact problem they themselves have with the government...
sort it out or I riot!
Sums up the sort of people that appear to be involved, good reporting has to be said, showed some balls
the atmosphere in peckham is horrible.
what are they doing? i love this city; i don't want to live in a warzone.
Sounds like shit is going down in brizzle now. chopper is out and about.
now's not the time
something is going down at least two police helicopters out and about.
it's been a long night. disregarded.
believe it is just a precautionary police presence.
Actually slap bang in the middle of the news. They've got Clapham Junction clear now so they've all dispersed up the road towards our flat. It's grim.
if worst comes to worst tell them you work on FM...some things, even in these testing times, remain sacred.
If anything is going to attract rioters it's that!
It's one thing seeing a really local area on TV but then looking out the window and seeing the aftermath is something entirely different. Surreal.
Not a huge number of them, but certainly a few. There's one near me in Southgate.
DO SOMETHING MAN!
Part of the gallery at the top of the Telegraph live blog.
Avoid the windows, don't draw attention to yourself
It's so surreal. Calming down now I think (hope) after the riot officers/vans have arrived.
..are envisaging them as animated barnacles in a Pixar film...attaching themselves to a sinking Galleon while exchanging some PG banter in the voices of Joan Cusack and Ellen Degeneres.
what fucking army? you mean the one that's overstretched in Afghanistan as it is? Even the TA is there.
Plus have you ever met a squaddie? They'll definitely make the situation better
i posited it earlier, and the boyf said it would be tantamount to civil war...
Now the wind is making the window creak, and it's freaking me out
is it better to pretend we're not in?
or be very very IN? the pub we were in sent us home.
i'm so scared.
OR DO YOU?
They're probably being a bit careful.
they're probably scared shitless.
They reckon it was over 100 people involved. 2 security guards injured.
That Tesco used to make me want to riot when I lived in BG
lulz picture: http://birminghamriots2011.tumblr.com/post/8663492926/not-to-make-too-much-light-of-very-serious
srs words: http://birminghamriots2011.tumblr.com/post/8662259640/a-few-words
err i do not feel sorry for any of these people for terrorising me and my loved ones. RACIST?
this cunt clearly feels entitled to a free flatscreen or two.
can anyone confirm or not?
Didn't really work in Northern Ireland did it?
that around 300 riot trained officers from across the north are on their way down on blues to back up the MET
CAN SOMEBODY GET THIS MOTHERFUCKER ON THE PHONE SO I CAN MAKE SENSE OF THIS
where they have schnapps, cept this time its speical brew
actually woolwich, though, it would seem
Not confident of my chances :D
Looks like it's calming down a lot round my way. Stay safe everyone.
the first target to have any relevance to the supposed reason for the rioting, i guess
Message to all the rioters in London & surrounding areas~~ u wanna be big men and fight to the death?? well get your sorry little arses on the next plane to Afghanistan and stand alongside real men , they're called soldiers and they are fighting a war unlike you bunch of pathetic wastes of space !!
London Riots - Bring In The Rubber Bullets likes this.
How about...deporting all the forreners & their kids so we can have our working country back??? Its not fukkin rocket sience!! Overflowing counrty with forreners....there isn't enough room or jobs to go around....doooo 1
Eaten half of my post there. Before that delightful quote, it should say ''If there has been a section on stupid facebook posts, please add this''.
My mate Dave told me that his little brother is going to be there. Of all the places to loot.
knocking over dustbins and the like in london.
we're all...we're all scared...
police everywhere, helicopters are still circling round my flat, lots of passing cars shouting about riots and looting salford precinct just read this too
anyone else around central manchester seeing much?
don't troll on their fb memorial page yeh?
It doesn't make you look cool
yes because books are not expensive
anything happening or is it just, i dunno, a really big cig?
It's really quiet around here. Eerily so.
after walking along bethnal green road im taking that as a byword for 'nothing's doing'.
Hope you're ok kiddo.
But yeah, compared to the atmosphere on Mare Street yesterday (which is probably the most terrifying thing I've ever experienced) it's practically serene
tbf i've been pretty insulated from it, considering all i saw was aftermath of a (relatively small) ding-dong in BG. Can't imagine what it was like for you guys.
not one for corporal punishment, etc, but plastic/rubber bullets don't seem too bad a solution considering the situation if its left to escalate further.
if dem man ramp up near ur yard.
the link you posted below is quite good though.
overall i have a mixed opinion of you.
Very heavy police presence by the Town Hall, apparently due a threat to burn it down (heard people attempted last night).
Few sirens, becoming more frequent, but mostly, it's full on ghost town
The rioters have it made...the police cannot stop them because the liberal news media will call them racists.
England ..the land of my ancestors...is no different than a African Muslim 3rd world country.
Whites cannot protect their property...they will be called racists. The rioters know this. You cannot shoot them. Just open your doors let them rape your wife and daughter. If you stop them the media will deem you a racist.
recommended by 20 people
this is direct from the film makers youtube channel, he deserves the hits more than some youtube thief. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJkAo5f8mo4
get the impression
but that's probs just standard. or at least i hope it is. bunch of cunts.
a police station has been firebombed in nottingham.
i just had a yorkie bar
Smallest petrol bomb thrown by the shittiest 'mob' Ive ever fucking seen. Two police cars managed to chase them off and 8 got arrested. What a fucking shower. Be all over the news tomorrow, "lawless nottingham overun" - absolute bullshit. This uprising is an absolute wankstain.
I WAS HOPING TO HAVE TO USE THE GODDAMN TUNNELS
Esler's set fire to Lyn Costello
what is going on!? race wars? really?!
this whole thing is a j-hoke!
its made me really angry
just google Enoch Powell, he knew it was coming in 1968.....
but it all seems to be calming down a lot from what ive seen since getting back? Same bits of footage of small groups of kids smashing some stuff up, hardly anything you'd call a riot
has been shot at. Maybe not then... :/
I presume most of us here aren't really involved in any of this, eh. That you're trying to weight both sides of things fairly...
I remember in Los Angeles, during the Rodney King riots, just 20 miles where I live, two decidedly different economic classes, and I wanted to be sympathetic to the rioters. Except when I saw them smash that dude's face in with a brick. No, fuck no.
Likewise, I want to be sympathetic to those rioting in London now. Except they're punks, right? Kids in $100 Adidas shoes, carrying mobile phones and committing acting of violence...erm, against what? What, that they don't have the right to break into some guy's store and steal his stuff, and now this is their big chance? Stir up more shit and steal more TVs? No, fuck no.
If I was David Cameron, I would order the Fire Dept to drive down every street in London and whenever they came across 17-year-old kids in track suits to hose those fuckers down, arrest their dumb asses and give 2 years in prison to think about how shitty porridge tastes every goddamn morning.
finger on the pulse (hey? hey?)
You're posting your surprise at people being utter mongs? And specifically surprised that some of these people are Labour and LibDem voters? As if said groups of people are immune to idiocy. And it's only Tory, BNP, UKIP types who are capable of being arseholes.
I don't really see what you're getting at here.
How could you possibly know it's not gonna flare up again in some form?
Half a tonne of straw was set alight in Rushden just before 10pm