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I've been basically out of the news cycle for over a month now...
make yourself comfortable. I'll fetch creakyknees.
I wouldn't dare do another thread about it, after your vitriolic hyperbolic rebuke ;D
they're borrowing time from the future by printing money today.
Can't see what all the fuss is about.
at least the banks the UK government bailed out/bought were based in the UK.
Almost all of this money that the EU is giving Greece is going to foreign creditors.
They should just default and restructure and get it over with, and save the Germans a few cents in pointless rescue funds
I feel really ashamed reneging my position on the Euro, but the financial crisis has really highlighted the importance of individual states having control of their interest rates
see below for why not eh
its all political voting anyway, people are probably annoyed by the whole 'owing money' thing.
- I'm kinda struggling to make sense of this rollover thing France and Germany wanted to do (putting most of the mature debt into new bonds and then basically another complicated debt vehicle to bypass the credit agency but still paying out less?) Did they think the credit agencies were just stupid?
- Does anyone know who is going to make lots of money out of this? Presumably someone's going to.
- Can I?
well what they announce is stupid) but it is also in credit agencies interest to not see everything go tits up, so they will try to see the optimism in the result (or try not to extrapolate logically into the future)
I know they're not run by stupids. My question was was the plan as rubbish as it sounds?
"The first recorded default goes back at least to the fourth century B.C., when ten out of thirteen Greek municipalities in the Attic Maritime Association defaulted on loans from the Delos Temple (Winkler 1933)" lol
Current plan: tack a bit of carpet onto the one that's already had an extra bit taped on to it.
yes because it solves absolutely nothing and merely delays it and makes things a little bit worse
no because it delays the seemingly inevitable chain collapse, they cannot see a way out of this as they have only been taught that a limited set of options are available to them, because this is preferable to the other option of letting greece default and then the euro coming under more pressure thus necessitating portugal and ireland and then spain to be more forthcoming with their debt (yet they will have seen greece not doing so, given the public non acceptance of the conditions) etc etc.......so to put off what they see as the worse option, they go for this pathetic sweeping under the carpet (which to be honest is not particularly significant (apart from the fact that its a whole european country) because much other bad debt is put aside for 'another day' to enable the day to day carry on.
The major stupidity is that even though they know they are delaying it only, they are not significantly enough altering their 'day to day' so that the day of reckoning will not be so bad....no they are blithely carrying on as if they are still doing the right things......hmmpf! "its made me right angry it has" "Its made mr winky go right small it has" "oh yes it has" oh yes it has" "its made my ball bag go up my bum" ......"here's H from steps"
they are trying to sell everything and being like 'hey it's cool guys'
investors are like 'LOL get fucked.'
I sort of forget that a lot of people have no idea what's going on, cos robert peston's pretty excellent for all that stuff and basically my only source.
Yeah dunno what people have said in this thread i've not read it but basically the eurozone are doing anything they can to reduce the amount of greek debt they have to secure, which includes stuff like talking to the banks that are owed and doing some complicated shuffling about of expenses and whatever. A lot of bankers still think a default is likely but the risk has been reduced quite a lot due to good work by the french and german govts. A greek default would put strain on european economies (including ours) but not be catastrophic, however it could trigger defaults by portugal and ireland, which would be a lot worse, and if Spain gets dragged into it we're fucked a la the 30's. There are other scenario's like greece removing itself from the euro, which would result in a huge damage to the eurozone as the financial sector finds out that its economic policy is not binding and permanent, thus meaning PIGS countries debt is valued according to their economies rather than according to the strength of the eurozone, which could also lead to defaults and 30's style depression. But then again none of this may happen.
they actually have plenty dollars (that they realise they are not likely to make all their dosh back on) Now of course one could argue its better buying resources in africa and brazil, but that only works if globally things remain stable (cos their military is not in a position to enforce returns on investment in the southern continants if things do go globally tits up)
therefore china would do well to bail out greece and thus get a toehold in Europe. Of course France/germany would not like this, and china might not think of it.
But i think that it is their best 'conventional' option
(their as in 'belonging to THEM')