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the driver should have realised he wasn't getting under that?!
down the middle.
look at where that bus is!
Harder to just say "I'm not getting under that" when you know you *can* if you do it right.
It's hardly Live and Let Die or whichever Bond that is.
were knocked off.
smile when they heard about Camden Town burning down?
I don't know which bit's funnier, the loss of some historic buildings or the fact that a load of stallholders might lose their livelihoods.
...shouldn't sell so much shit. Probably the incense and petulia oil that started it. :)
If you're worried about historic buildings go fight the Astoria fight. I'm not too worried about the next generation not being able to go to the Hawley Arms.
and the fact you're concerned about the Astoria closing (as am I), but think the Camden fire is amusing, suggests that your position is one of blinkered self-interest. So I'm not going to bother arguing with you.
what an idiot
I loved camden to, maybe you'll grow out of it.
about my spelling of Patchouli oil I am not a fan of the stuff, never needed to actually write it down, I apologise for my ignorance.
Would someone please educate me on exactly which historic buildings have been burnt down? From what I saw it was a load of two a penny buildings (the sort that are being torn down everyday and you lot do nothing about) and the tatty market? Honestly, I'm not winding you up, I really haven't heard about any historic buildings?
I am glad that the boats weren't burnt, as they're pretty.
Be nice if Camden could be turned into a place for londoners, somewhere we could enjoy going in the day. It really is a shit hole. If it wasn't for the proximity (to my home) and the bands, I would never go there. Do you lot really hang about with the exchange students and camden boot wearing twats then?
I hate that London is always just about fucking tourists. Which londoners actually like the market and the shit they sell? It's for out of towners.
As far as I can see, and feel free to correct me as I haven't seen it for myself, nothing of note has been lost.
because the market was bought out by a corporation and rents jacked through the roof - so they only sell what sells big time. They'll stop selling shit when people stop buying it.
I would have thought you'd do that sort of thing very late at night, wouldn't you?
Fucking shit, anyway.
then it becomes a good thing? No?
and oragnised and sell better things....
to be so blunt, but stop being such a dick.
Okaaaaay, what the hell did I do....?
That there are a million faceless shopping malls selling exactly the same 'better things'. People go to Camden Market precisely because they aren't after that sort of shopping experience and those sorts of things.
It's a place that is seen as being scary, unsafe and dirty. And probably full of dodgy traders. Why should it exist just because it's 'alternative'?
Which of those things are wrong? I think you'd struggle to argue against any of them.
Oh wait, PocketMouse said it, right? Let's just be patronising and tell her she's an idiot. It's not like we say that to her all the time anyway...
you used the words "scary" and "unsafe".
feeling absolutely fine and not in the slightest bit concerned for their safety or belongings? sure....
You're not a real person are you? You can't be. You're an imposter, someone on here having a laugh. The PM I just got was right: you're Prole, aren't you? Well, I admit, this is your best character yet. Fair play. Almost believable but utterly, utterly infuriating.
A very convincing hologram was made that time I met you. Quite impressive I'm sure you'll agree.
it's a market, not a warzone.
It's very safe.
I have a bit of caution for my wallet, but I do in every crowded place.
i'd be much more concerned for my safety if i was somewhere which wasn't heaving with people.
DiS evidentally has a high percentage of such people.
I'm guaranteed another full hours irony! WOO!
I have never met anyone who finds it scary, unsafe and dirty. Full of hippies and goths? Yes. Far too busy? Yes. Mainly appealing to those under 18? Yes. But those other things, no.
and you only need to see pictures to see it's dirty. plus, being far too busy naturally makes it unsafe by extension.
after posting this:
"Oh wait, PocketMouse said it, right? Let's just be patronising and tell her she's an idiot. It's not like we say that to her all the time anyway..."
If busy places are unsafe by extension does that mean you like walking down quiet empty streets at night?
But if the street was a 'safe' street yes, I would.
Murderers, rapists, thieves and scumbags are everywhere...
My point was that if there's no one to help you it's not such a good place to be.
..it's not such a good place to be. Plus, at least you'd know if someone was stealing from you somewhere quiet. People would be more likely to do it somewhere like the market because there's a good chance the victim won't even realise, and when it's happened and even if you did notice it'd be far too packed to be able to do anything about it...
...to pocket mouse, the only two times I have been robbed have been on the 29 bus through camden. It is a little more unsavory than other parts of leafly north london.
But My problem isn't with it being unsafe, it's about it being just pure rubbish. Selling the same crap it was in the early 90's, and probably before. How many spliff posters can the world need?
It's just a theme park for tourists. Fuck the locals, just cater for the tourists, as usual.
"it's a place that is seen as being scary, unsafe and dirty."
YOU see it that way, but given your views on cities in general this isn't a surprise.
Scary? Hardly. Most people who work there are honest, middle-aged, ex-hippies or young people who do it because they enjoy it. Most of them go to the major music festivals with their stalls too.
Unsafe? No more than anywhere else by virtue of the vast amount of shoppers are middle-class people who don't tend to engage in stabbing people.
Dirty? Well, yeah there aren't polished white marble floors and some bits are out on the street so subject to the elements. It's not massively dirty, though and the stalls aren't.
Probably full of dodgy traders? No - this isn't full of guys selling knock-offs of the latest movies on DVDs, it's generally clothes, cloth, nicknacks, posters, frames and the like. Hardly 'dodgy'.
Direct her to the neurotics anonymous forum, or something. Or the 'I wonder why most people think one thing, and yet even though I know fuck all about it I'll argue against it anyway' Club.
Damn right. That's why I keep ending up in film threads.
Ah, happy times.
not me! He even waved.
was this at the astoria?
quite a number of stalls sell bootlegged / pirated / unofficial CDs and DVDs, but they tend to be "in keeping" with the market (live CDs, anime DVDs etc)
but the rest of your points are correct.
I've probably not been through it in a while, though.
The unofficial stuff isn't really a new market, though, and most bands seem to turn a blind eye given it's only ever big fans who've got all the official stuff who buy it, I think.
but it's still dodgy merchandise made by less-than-savoury groups.
reputable, clean, safe and in a nice environment. What's the point of it?
And lots of people I've known have commented on it being unsafe. This year one friend was in londond for a DAY and had their iPod stolen there. Didn't happen anywhere else.....
it couldn't have happened anywhere else because it was stolen.
My friend got her iPod and camera stolen in Italy. By your reasoning Italy is 'unsafe'.
Of course, maybe your friend's just witless and left her bag open?
See also, phone/purse etc.
And no, that's being silly. If you said 'my friend had her things stolen on a particular street in italy' then it would make sense for that to be considered an unsafe street and take particula caution when there.
Maybe people shouldn't have to worry about whether their bag is open or not? I certainly don't do all the zips and buttons up on mine, and I shouldn't have to for fear of someone stealing from it.
Followed by 'it's not actually dangerous'. How does that make sense? I have no desire at all to visit somewhere I'll find intimidating, it won't do me any good, unless having all your possessions stolen and a few panic attacks is some new kind of therapy.
seems like a better way...
you will remain stuck in an endless unhelpful cycle of avoidance. You might just find if you visit these places that it goes OK.
I have no desire to. There's nothing I want to see or do there. It seems a terribly pointless exercise.
but if there are places you actually are curious to go to and yet you refrain because you are (ultimately irrationally) scared of them then that is self-defeating and unnecessary.
Yes, clearly if you walked around a shopping mall or any busy area with your bag open you'd run the risk of criminals taking stuff from it. People used to do it in cinemas (maybe they still do?).
Mall isn't any safer in that respect and actually probably worse as they tend to be more of a magnet for little scrote kids, in my experience.
security guards and cctv
These people are good at what they do.
and tubes etc.
for the same reason.
is bollocks. Why make comment on something you have no knowledge on?
people commenting on something they know nothing about is pretty much these boards' bread and butter.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go and start a thread about how all jazz is unlistenable rubbish.
Its actually infuriating.
to answer that question in the affirmative.
Now, we can stop this.
And know people who have experiences of it... how does that count for nothing?
Camden Market is clearly MASSIVELY popular therefore a lot of people don't feel the way you do about it.
If they did clearly no one would go. So to argue that somehow it's not the place we know it be is ludicrous.
b) think unsafe, dirty places are 'cool'
Lot's of people go to lots of places that shouldn't exist.
yesterday. I got some ace boots for 20 quid. Camden market is good.
There is nothing more to debate.
and you can't get a refund....
I doubt a clean, reputable store would give you a refund either
And if they fell apart due to a fault shortly after, you could get a refund.
Tear the whole thing down. I can't bear to think that there are people roaming Camden without GUARANTEES on their second-hand clothing products. It's an innherently unsafe thing to become involved with and Pocket Mouse has been right to bring this to everyones attention. She does afterall know what she's talking about.
what I was saying....
You have a completely irrational fear of the city and activities that hold an element of risk, however miniscule. I don't care about that, but I refuse to give any currency to your ramblings about a subject on which you have no perspective.
Erm, I was being sarcastic. I live in london too, I don't need educating about the market thanks.
It scares you?
The fact you can't get a refund?
I used to feel the same way about Brixton until I went there more often to go to gigs and stuff.
but Camden has the market and more venues that have gigs I want to go to (generally).
camden's ok but you don't have to walk far from the main streets to be in dodgy areas.
In practice, a large flow of people in an area will ensure you are safer because it will deter violent crime. However it might, if it's busy enough, increase the risk of being pick pocketed.
That doesn't mean if you build a bright shiny shopping mall in Camden it's a good idea, which is really what all of this is about.
To then rigidly refuse to believe people when they tell you that actually Camden Market is successful precisely becuse it *isn't* a nice clean mall and to further imply that everyone who thinks that is mentally or morally subnormal isn't really particularly endearing.
Meet me here sharp at 9am every week day or I'll take you down Camden Market.
like a bourbon.
you are a fucking retard!
Telling us it's true and that we're wrong to think otherwise is what's getting you all the hostility.
was that malls are cleaner and safer. That seems like fairly sound logic to me...
There are page upon page of results. I IZ IN UR MALLZ STABBIN UR FRENDZ!
and cameras. It's bigger news if someone gets stabbed in a mall BECAUSE of those things. It would be news news because they are considered to be such safe places. Someone gets stabbed near camden market and it would even make the local press. And I doubt there's many google uk results anyway.
I can't be fucked anymore. You're clearly either a wind-up merchant, in which case well done, you got me very, very riled, or if you're not having a laugh you are a complete and utter cunt.
Why are people so bothered that I think malls are better places than dodgy markets? It's hardly a woah-out-there opinion. That last post I reasoned completely, and because I used decent reasoning you just say 'piss off'. Yeah? Sigh..........
They're called shopping centres, or whatever. I don't have aggression issues, I have issues with you.
Your opinions, not just about this but about a whole gamut of things, combine to make me want to put my head inside a drug dealer.
I'd say they're pretty standard across the board.
You see, there you go again. On what evidence do you assign your views, which your time on this board must have made you realise tend to be a minority, to 65 million to 6000 million people?
The people on this board, are by and large, similar in views. It's not accurate of most people, is it?
Surely this is by far the largest test sample of population you've ever explained your 'popular' theories on the freezing or otherwise of bread and your views on how the rest of your life will go?
I don't know what you mean by 'how the rest of your life will go' but whatever. General consensus on things is fairly well known, and when I'm not in the majority on views, I think I'm at worst in a fairly large minority. You've only given two things (or three depending on what you mean by the life thing) of where my views might differ from other peoples. You could easily pick two subjects for every person where they have different views to others.
And short of trying to hunt around for old threads there's not a lot I can say.
The last time this car crash happened it was your thread about how you're going to have kids by such and such a time and so forth. It was a similar outcome to this one...
You have views that don't align with the majority but you have a way of putting them across that patronises everyone else either directly for not agreeing with your (sometimes preposterous, e.g. frozen bread) viewpoint or in general by implying a lack of moral or intellectual weight to everyone else who doesn't fall into your neat worldview.
It was gabrielle-rose who started some stupid argument. I don't think anyone could have a problem with "I wouldn't want a first child ideally later than 26, but I don't have a problem with other people having kids at whatever age they like" 0 could be remotely controversial.
And that's just ridiculous. I don't patronise at all. The fact is that whenever I express any view people will always attack it, other people can give their views which are way more minority than mine, and they never get attacked, or rarely at least. But whatever I post, on whatever subject will ALWAYS get attacked by someone. Usually the same people and it's really annoying. And I'm not okay with people telling me I'm an idiot just for holding particular views, so if people call me an idiot, I'll try to explain my views, and yes, sometimes that means having to be patronising or whatever, but other people are WAY more condescending to me and I don't ever insult people just because they don't agree with me as people seem to do with me. I don't mean to sound like I'm accusing people of lack of intelligence or what have you, so I'm sorry if I do, but everyone getting at me constantly, with some kind of 'we're all right, you're so stupid' gang mentality means I get pretty exaspherated and so maybe I resort to it (though unaware).
...Yeah. That. And stuff.
But ideally, a government should. Obviously, I wouldn't want it to unless it was a good one. And I don't mean 'stupid' as such. I use that word too much, I suppose. But politically, I think most people arefairly ignorant. Me included, but less so than other people. If I thought I was comparitavely very stupid in terms of politics and morals etc, it would be very silly to believe in them. You have to believe in the superiority of the things you believe or else there's no point believing them. Does that make sense?
I listen to views, I think about them, and reject them if I disagree.....
and you could have turned this thread around
in which case, you're dead wrong. Excuse the pun. I don't know if you've noticed, but there's been a fair amount of national press coverage of knife crime over the past 12 months.
not some person was stabbed in the arm, but isn't on their death bed.
"Residents of Camden are cowering in their homes tonight, as a spate of arm stabbing swept the market. The trend, which has been likened to Chinese burns administered in the play ground"
I've started wearing a pair of medieval iron gauntlets to protect my arms when I go out to get some lunch.
This is a slight the likes of when you shall never recover from
but it's likely that rents will be so high that only chains will be able to afford to move in, and another identikit shopping centre isn't really what Camden needs. There are plenty of other places to go if you want a swanky mall. It doesn't have to exist at the expense of local traders. Even if I never used the market - and I only usually go for the food stalls as it is - I'd be sorry to see it disappear.
And where will you get your bongs and t-shirts saying "No-one knows I'm a lesbian"?
I need a t-shirt with 'barbie is a slut' written on it.
that is a hilarious t-shirt. i want one. nb. i havent been to camden market for years, but certainly wouldnt want it to shut down. Also, pocketmouse might not want to go there, fair enough.
b) people who think unsafe, dirty places are 'cool'
I'm currently trying to work out which of these two categories my parents fit into...
but no based on any kind of reasoning or belief. therefore im not getting riled by it. we know pm doesnt like such things. its unreasonable rather than ill mannered?
in Camden but I don't see why I would find it amusing that it caught fire. I'm even tolerant enough to hope that Knightsbridge isn't destroyed by fire and that's difficult for me.
at least there's one extra sight-seeing bus in action now.
bad news for londoners... good news for tourists.
my favourite was 'THERE ARE MORE SEATS UPSTAIRS'. No shit.
why? do crashed buses turn you on?
frankly this sort of stuff happens DAILY in the North (what with us all being intellectually subnormal and/or drunk) but do we go ON AND ON AND ON?
Some of us do I guess.
If Amy Winehouse had been a regular there, I'm sure we'd all have heard about it.
expect a double page spread in this week's issue!
it'll be a tribute issue? The drummer from razorlight said the hawley 'felt like their dressing room'.
I was roaring it at anyone who moved.
wish I'd gone.
today hasn't been fun. We did miss you last night.
a reason in itself to burn it down, olegrich?
Appropriately enough. I wish I had the strength of will to stop replying.
I assumed something must be kicking off
TO BE MAINLY ABOUT BUSES.
IT DID NOT DELIVER.
I FEEL UNSAFE.
two will come along at once.
im here ALL WEEK.
i was in the festival board the last time on came.
kinda whacky new drug?
on came is the worse.
It's all the fucking drug dealers by the canal I can do without.
DiS makes me unhappy.
But it completely, completely does.
I was running late and tried to take what would have been the most direct route (had I been in a car). I ended up stopping just a couple of feet short of a bridge and then having to reverse down a really narrow country road.
I fucking hated driving that thing.
Ace. I used to love those things. I wonder if there are decommisioned ones lying around lowly county council offices that I can buy.
I was always suspicious of those when I was young. Maybe the orderliness lover in me thought all the acceleration and braking would mean books all over the floor in a complete Dewey system contravening mess.
has brought back thoughts of loads of mobile things from my youth. The Ringtons man! The mobile convenience store from which we bought 10p space raiders for our dinner! Milkmen!
We need more mobile things in the 21st century.
What door-to-door ringtones?
Salesmen don't get much more mobile than that.
I think Tom Aldous hacked my login.
actually, of course he would.
I found it quite stressful. I wasn't used to driving such a big vehicle, and you're driving around really narrow country roads on quite a tight timetable.
I ended up smashing it into a cornish hedge outside St Ives. I gave up after that.
SHOPPING CENTRE PEOPLE, SHOPPING CENTRE!
that could mean any sort of shopping center. a mall, a strip mall, a shopping center that is not a mall or strip mall...
as i doubt anyone in the UK would ever call any row of shops ever a 'strip mall' or a shopping centre a 'mall' for that matter - though it's marginally more likely.
sort of isolated, and lining a common parking lot
(no offence intended, some are offended by such jovial words) it all makes more sense. :)
i will be a bit peeved now though that i have that song in my head, and i can never remember how the second half goes
or it could refer to a shopping plaza, or someplace like water tower place or northbridge...
I've let myself down, and I've let my family down. Sorry mum.
you were loudly declaring "loves the cock" in the water rats last week?
Until now, she was wholly unaware I'd even said it. So now I have to apologise for that as well.
You have been unwise here.
I hope you apologised afterwards.
<3 <3 <3
this wound me up.
Camden is a wonderful, vibrant place. Unlike other more popular areas of London which feel sterile.
more's the pity. There's not enough bleach in the world for it.
really? Really, Phil? Wonderful and vibrant? It's wank beyond belief.
But it isn't very scary.
yes, yes we can.
I think it's a really nice area, based on how it was before the fire.
after all it's done for you Daniel.
my opinion my change slightly. have you seen the new yankee-style diner opening on Jamestown Road? :D
we're going there for lunch the week it opens, right?
and definitely over-priced. IT'S NO BIG RED, NOW, IS IT.
a big red willy?
but the food I've had there is pretty good. I haven't had their burgers, though, so those might have let the side down.
Also, they might make you sick if you drink a whole one, but those alcoholomilkshakes are still amazing.
I do wonder how the milk can be preserved for so long, though. Still. YUM!
the diner sells alcoholic milkshakes. PROPER ones.
Iced Tea, i didn't realise it was going to have copious amounts of alcohol in it. or that it would cost £6.
i had two.
THE GOOD MIXER
was using the reflective windows behind my desk to check/pick his teeth yesterday.