The Weekly DiScussion: when did post-rock jump the shark?
- Artists:
- Mogwai »
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- Mono »
- Public Image Ltd (PIL) »
- Talk Talk »
- Explosions In The Sky »
- Youthmovies »
- 65daysofstatic »
- Do Make Say Think »
- Sigur Rós »
- Godspeed You! Black Emperor »
- This Will Destroy You »
Its roots are, at best, vague – writer and critic Simon Reynolds can claim some ownership of the term through his use of it in articles for Mojo and Wire in the mid-‘90s (particularly with regard to describing Bark Psychosis' Hex), yet even he can trace ‘post-rock’ further back into the past. As far back as 1975, in fact, and an article by journalist James Wolcott on Todd Rundgren. An established genre, then, post-rock seems to be. So why does it come in for such a kicking so very often in the modern mainstream – or more particularly non-mainstream – media? Why is the term commonly preceded by the words ‘much’ and ‘maligned’?
Homogenisation seems to be the catalyst for the disregarding of new groups pigeonholed pre-publicity proper as post-rock; the gradual slide from the affecting sound pastures of Mogwai in the late ‘90s to a million and one rock acts lacking a singer. Post-rock seems, more often than not, to merely indicate ‘instrumental’ nowadays, which is so very, very far from the acts credited with exerting a significant influence on the development of the genre.
Although quite happy to be clumped in with the likes of Tortoise, Fly Pan Am and even Stereolab when initially categorised as post-rock, Mogwai are one of many significant acts within the genre to actively reject it today, aware of the connotations the term now carries: limitations glossed over by luscious repetition, soulless beauty of a most crystalline nature in place of true heart and grit. Also unlikely to be happy with being introduced to new ears as a post-rock band: Godspeed You! Black Emperor and its varied spin-off side projects and current Plan A outfits, through Youthmovies and Cats And Cats And Cats, right up to the glitch-informed arrangements of 65daysofstatic and Texan newcomers This Will Destroy You.
Video: post-rock on 'Punk Rock', via Mogwai
Taking the genre back seems on the cards: following this disregarding of critic-coined classifications ultimately indicating very little to very many, it’s increasingly apparent that further lines need drawing in this proverbial sand, nearer and nearer to the lapping tide. Really, who hears more than an ounce of Sigur Rós in the work of Talk Talk, or vice-versa? Any PiL in the recent output of Explosions In The Sky? Connections are frayed and slim, to say the least, yet these acts can all be bundled under the came catchall; this ‘much maligned’ umbrella that casts its shadow further and wider with each passing year it progresses – or, more accurately perhaps, regresses – unchecked.
But what? Post-post-rock? Oh fuck off. Motorik-hued amplified ambience? Bit of a mouthful. InstruMetal? Well, only if we’re now tossing Isis and Jesu, among a slew of others, into the fray. Fact is, though, that post-rock’s reached the stalest point of its existence thus far (not one post-rock album in DiS’s top 50 of 2007), even if the precise date of birth has been lost in the inky past of a few dozen publications that’ve been and continue to be, albeit often only just. When’d it ‘jump the shark’? Easy.


October 21, 1997: the release date of Young Team, the album that spawned endless instrumental rock acts on both sides of the Atlantic, and beyond. Admittedly Mogwai themselves never claimed to be revolutionaries, but their fusing of influences assembled via filtering through the catalogues of so many stateside acts – Slint are a key informant – seemed absolutely unique upon the release of this hugely acclaimed debut. A 9.7 on Pitchfork? Tick. It apparently changed Bloc Party’s Kele Okereke’s life, if Wikipedia is to be accepted as gospel. It inspired a generation of students to gaze downwards, play with their pedals, never look at their audience… it was Judgement Day for all the criticism levelled at post-rock since, a template that, possibly, has never been bettered despite thousands of efforts.
And it shifted the post-rock goalposts – now, the term means something very different to what Reynolds and Wolcott had envisaged when trying to articulate the newfangled creativity within a conventional field; when trying to convey that these guys were strangling those same-old guitars into wailing new sounds, in new shapes and at new sizes. Now, post-rock sells the BBC wildlife department, curates world-renowned festivals, and is summarised in the DiS office as ‘Diver music’ (no, me neither – I’d rather blast out El-P than Explosions in the Sky). Its existence on the fringes of the modern musical landscape is threatened with every new act aping a format celebrating its anniversary with a deluxe re-issue later this year. It’s in your mall, on your television, in your ears like never before. And who’s taking the power back in light of this ubiquity? Step forward, bands we’re yet to hear.
Video: Sigur Rós, 'Untitled 1', from ( )
Unless you’ve any immediate suggestions, of course. Who’s taking post-rock in new directions, instilling life in an ailing genre ambling its way in familiar footsteps? Who’s disassembling and reformatting, daring to inject influences sound with a maverick spirit rare amongst the imitator slurry? Any argument that Foals and Battles are an extension of post-rock? If you were to pick five significant post-rock releases, for better or worse in the current scheme of sound-alike things, since Young Team, what would they be? Here’s my (pretty obvious) five, off the top of my head:
65daysofstatic, One Time For All Time
Sigur Rós, ( )
Mono, You Are There
Do Make Say Think, You, You’re A History In Rust
Godspeed You! Black Emperor, Yanqui U.X.O.
Or, of course:
Mogwai, Come On Die Young
Mogwai, Rock Action
Mogwai, Happy Songs For Happy People
Mogwai, Mr Beast
Mogwai, Government Sessions
(Inserts smiling face) DiScuss…
- Mogwai - Les Revenants
- Mogwai - Les Revenants
- Incubate 2012: the DiS review
- Green Man 2012: The DiS Review
- In Photos: Green Man Festival 2012 @ Glanusk Park, Wales
- Green Man Festival Preview – Part Two: What To See
- ATP I'll Be Your Mirror 2012: the DiS review
- In Photos: ATP I'll Be Your Mirror curated by Mogwai @ Alexandra Palace, London
Post-rock just conjures up visions
of blokes with beards getting really into long maudlin songs. But sometimes those blokes are the Dirty 3, and it's amazing :)
aye
its a tricky one. personally, i think it has to be something really fucking special to be good post-rock. its very very easy to be an average post-rock band...
ive seen too many of those average ones recently, and i cant help but laugh alot of the time -- its just so obvious. ahh, here comes the glockenspiel... ooh, they are building up to the loud bit - ahh here's the loud bit! and now they are all spazzing out and ... oh yes - half the band are playing the drums along with the drummer. and so on.
Diver Music
lol!
Meh
Genres are used for convenience by anyone with any sense, rather than to accurately describe music. And it isn't in the slightest bit unusual for what a genre means to change over time.
For what it is worth, I don't think post-rock has stagnated recently, but rather the commerical success of a few acts has lead to greater attention being paid to the 'genre' as a whole. And as with any 'genre', some of it is going to be shit.
^^^^^
Wise words.
^ here here
plenty good releases:
Jakob
Laura
Rachel's
ASMZ
good post
good points.
and jakob are brill.
Yndi Halda
are currently by far my favourite 'post-rock' band. If anyone hasn't heard them they're well worth checking out.
^ yes, they are indeed grand
also check out Sparrows Swarm And Sing, who are along the same kinda lines, but more dynamic and generally better
yeah
they are one of the recent ones that have really created something special. excellent both live and recorded.
^ yes they are
i def. see wof the coin though. Whilst i enjoy bands like This Will Destroy You, they are very dot-to-dot. However, alot of stuff on Kranky, Temporary Residence and Constellation is far from cookie-cutter pressing
Simon Reynolds said...
... it's rock 'n' roll instruments for non-rock 'n' roll purposes.
That'll do.
Our Brother The Native
too. Very unconventional for a band who've been lumped in with the "post-rock" crowd.
Also, could be wrong here
but isn't the expression 'jumped the shark' more to do with disappearing up your own pretentious arse and doing something completely ridiculous rather than just stagnating?
Maybe I need to bone up on my Happy Days trivia
heh
good ol wiki
I used to listen to loads
of 'post-rock' at Uni much to the derision of my peers. Always the question "how can it be 'post rock' when 'rock' still exisits" I never could explain it.
i keep wanting to say something fabulously insightful
but i keep hitting abandon reply.
Basically, after much consideration i have decided post-rock > most other music at the moment. Fin.
however
given the amount of freedom that 'post-rock' bands have to make their music, it is depressing how often it can sound similar.
and perhaps more depressingly, i still manage to enjoy them despite this.
Have a cookie
PS. I quite like your band
i can empathize with this
not the being in a band bit, i can't play instruments for shit.
But i just find that when listening to a 'post-rock' band (a phrase i dont agree with btw) that i go through such a greater range of emotions than i could with any other style of music and i love it for that.
Great Picture
Coupla bones of contention- Really its only the guitars and quiet/loud stuff thats gone stale. If you look at some bands in the top 50-
2: Battles – Mirrored
3: Panda Bear – Person Pitch
9: Radiohead – In Rainbows
10: HEALTH – Health
11: Deerhunter – Cryptograms
17: Animal Collective – Strawberry Jam
19: Arcade Fire – Neon Bible
22: Blonde Redhead – 23
24: Efterklang – Parades
27: Deerhoof – Friend Opportunity
Theres a bit of 'post-rock' in each of these.
Most notably Arcade Fire, who are chock full of GYBE-ness in places. Efterklang and radiohead have reams of sigur ros in them as well. Also last year was 'The Sun' by Fridge, and 'You, youre a history in rust' (which you yourself included in your article)These were great, innovative and brilliant releases.
Also what about releases this year?
'Do you like rock Music?' by BSP
'Hold on Now Youngster' by Los Campesinos also contain elements of this supposed 'genre'.
What about the new Silver Mt Zion Release eh? Its incredible!
Okay, I'm not happy with the use of the term as a whole to describe many of these bands, but I put it to you within the framework and definition you used that Its just the non-innovative stuff thats become most obviously 'post-rock'- see 65dos and bands like This Will Destroy you, the real innovators have made it more subtle, and incorporated that sound into a larger musical construct.
I think the problem is that
In no other genre does 'innovation' sit so highly the list of what is regarded to be a measure of success. E.g. off the top of my head -
To write a succesful pop song:
1) Good vocals
2) Catchy melody
3) Up-tempo sing-a-long quality
To write a good post-rock record:
1) innovation
2) emotional involvement
3) sound production
If we expect post rock (or any genre)to be innovative across the board we are dooming it to failure. Any genre has a small percentage of innovators and a large number of (more or less successful) copyists.
This Will destroy You are not as innovative as EITS but they still sound (nearly) as good. In any other genre they would be praised to the rafters but not PR because of our assumptions about the prioritisation of innovation.
On a lighter note
Let airplanes circle overhead FTW!
How about Vessels?
I saw them a couple of times in recent months and thought they were great!
I think they're adding something to the 'post rock' field.
well said.
bravo.
It ended when people
started to bum the white stripes/strokes media hype in 2000/01.
x
ha
Radiohead+post rock...that is impressive!
MOGWAI SUCK DONKEY WANG
that is all
punk rock
rock
^this
sparrows swarm and sing are absolutley brilliant
Not exactly
reinventing the post-rawk wheel but i have recently enjoyed the iliketrains and andsoiwatchyoufromafar releases very much indeed.
Yeah, some of its po-faced and overly-introspective but sometimes you just wanna get miserable and mope for a bit.
Bring back They Don't Sleep!!!
post rock died....
...the day disco inferno split up. what post rock became wasn't what reynolds originally envisioned when the term was coined. bands like moonshake, insides and DI were re-inventing the wheel, using samples where guitars once were, introducing beats into pop music, mixing can with electronica. what post rock later became was 657 varieties of slint which has become more and more watered down over the years so that a lot of it is now appears to be just bland muzak.
indeed
i do miss they don't sleep
Unsurprisingly
I Concur completely with your comment!!!
The Don't Sleep
were indeed a lovely band and good chaps to boot.
Espically that keyboard surfing lunatic
Are
The Longcut post-rock?
I like them
surely the problem with post-rock
is that Mogwai are deemed one of its highlights. any genre that feels the need to celebrate professionally cantankerous dullards Mogwai is a dead genre to me.
post-rock only succeeds where it spurns the technical self-wankery element (i'm looking at you, Explosions in the Sky), in favour of creating beautiful, epic music (i'm looking at you, Sigur Ros and Mono)
down with the ros, up with the gwai!
sigur ros well over rated in my opinion. ive been in my mates car many a time when sigur ros has been on, and ive never heard a track that made the hairs stand up on my neck. not once! those people should stop pissing about and listen to mogwai instead, rather than getting there ideas of wildlife programs who know no better.
I sure wouldn't consider Port-Royal post-rock
and that's the main problem with this 'genre'... What is and what isn't post-rock ?
I'd love to have some comment on this...
...but I'd just end up sounding like a cock.
In my mind, I like to believe my group's music is slightly more interesting than most instrumental groups with two guitars and four delay pedals. I'm willing to accept this may be wishful thinking.
You realise the point of DiScussion articles, right?
Without sounding full of m'self, I like to think I'm versed in enough rock in all its forms to have heard plenty of potentially forward-thinking acts; problem is they're playing to 18 people in the back of a pub rather than headlining the ATPs and Green Mans of this world. An 'idiot', I'm quietly confident I'm not.
I'm with Mike.
(Mr jmmber, it's very nice that you like us, and thank you for your comments. On previous evidence, though, Mike Diver's done much more for us than years of slogging through crap on our own; I think he's one of the few people in the world who have actually listened to everything we've done. Be nice to him. He's raising good points, and is an excellent writer).
Personally, I think a lot of self-described post-rock music really suffers by not having a melody. Many such bands are run by guitarists, who are more used to playing arpeggios and like finding funny chords, and there's not a lot of weight placed on finding a melody (and, to a lesser extent, countermelody & harmony). If I were pressed, I'd say that's what we try to do, and why I like our music.
</my 2p worth>
I regularly forget how utterly ace Mogwai are
They're one of those "super-bands" to me. Kind of like Trail of dead or the russian guy they cant kill in snatch.
I always forget how brilliant they are until i listen to them or see them.
Whenever I've seen them play, they just cut through all the rubbish...
And their DJ sets are the best ever.
I just whacked Young Team on itunes and it's pretty superb. 'Yes I am a Long Way from Home' reminds me of the Chemical brothers for whatever reason...
What mogwai and explosions write is equally
beautiful to Sigur Ros and Mono. In fact much of what Mono do would be indistinguishable from mogwai in a 'blind taste test' if it was possible.
See Karelia(Opus2) and Mogwai Fear Satan...
This is why I do this job
(genuine smiles)
Tonight
God is angry!
This is
such a brilliant article. Really.
I don't think the classic post-rock will re-invent itself the next couple of years. In a couple of years, though, people will get into it again. Last year we wanted new rave, now we crave electronical music, whilst noise rock is getting more and more popular. I think people will start searching for motorik-hued amplified ambience again, naturally.

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