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if so, why?
sort of regret asking this question now, if you don't answer it will SINK and we can forget it ever happened. or you can answer if you want.
I tried to believe in God.
But I simply don't.
But I have a profound respect for people live their lives according to their faith ( not the one that just blindly follow a religion ).
is mutually exclusive with evolutionary theory
I was brough up an atheist.
There's never been anything to make me think there could be a god.
Hey. You never know......
theomania (thee-o-MAY-nee-uh, -MAIN-yuh) noun
The belief that one is God or specially chosen by God on a mission.
[From Greek theos (god) + -mania (excessive enthusiasm or craze).]
This mania often strikes rulers of nations and is highly recommended
when planning to attack other nations. It soothes conscience, clears the
path, and removes all doubts. After all, if one is channeling God, why
worry about rules and conventions of mere humans?
-Anu Garg (gargATwordsmith.org)
"[Chaitanya] was totally given to theomania, which caused Him to chant
dance in ecstasy."
Steven J. Rosen; The Hidden Glory of India; Bhaktivedanta Book Trust;
The whole bible thing is obviously pretty unbelievable, but i believe in some kind of entity.
and was originally just a mechanism for the powers in authority to keep the plebs in line, while screwing as much wealth out of them as possible. And with the promise of a wonderful afterlife or terrible hell to reward or punish them.
Attributing your actions on earth to some made up entity is just a way of justifying behaviour and renouncing responsibility for your own deeds.
If people are to do good things for each other, they should not be doing so to please an imaginary 'friend'.
that's a very blinkered view
most religions are actually based around their prophets rather than God - don't get belief in a supreme being(s) confused with socially maladjusted historically self-interested groups who've become stagnant and distant from the original teachings of their 'prophets' through dogmatic literal interpretation of the word
so you get off.
i find strict atheism a little sad, and often just as arrogant and inward-facing as religious fanatics.
i was raised a catholic, but kind of slipped out of it at the same time as my parents, when i was 13-ish. looking back on it i don't think my dad was ever really interested.
i then went through a little teenage "there is definitely no god, every christian is a moron" phase, but that soon passed.
now, i'd rather just sit on the fence. i'm pretty sure that if i or someone i loved was seriously ill (or something) i'd say a prayer out of desperation. fickle/agnostic then.
i find some of the ideas behind catholicism comforting, despite the intrinsic guilt and shame which is hammered home by pretty much every priest i've ever met.
to comletely denounce all religion would be to rubbish the views of many of my family members, which would be very harsh.
if you're convinced there's a monster under your bed and i refuse to accept it till you provide me with proof, do we have equally faith-based positions?
There's no proof of god so, as bamos says, 'meh'.
That's what I meant about it's how you're brought up. 'Turning away' has little to do with it: When you were young you were given the basis that there was an entity out there in control and it's still there.
Just as I was brought up with the belief that life is what it is.
"just as arrogant and inward-facing as religious fanatics."
hang on, when it comes to proving or disproving the existence of God where does the burden of proof rest?
denomination where i just don't relaly care, and don't really think about it? I'm that one, whatever that is.
that you should go listen to bob mould
if i believe in god (not that i neccesarily do), why would it matter to you?
ok, so if you believe in god and i don't my position is based on a relative assesment of the facts we have available to us and yours would be based on faith. the idea that atheism and theism are equally faith-based on the grounds that 'you can't be sure' that there is no god is absolutely preposterous
i would have to consider the question of whether God exists or not.
i do not do this, because the question has really never entered my head in any meaningful way. i think i just take it for granted that there is not really any sort of "higher power".
i'm not sure i believe in anything, to be honest.
Atheism is the non-belief in a deity.
"Atheism is the non-belief in a deity."
precisely. it frustrates me to see people to recast it from a UNBELIEF in the existence of god to the BELIEF in the non-existence of god. intellectually dishonest.
i suppose in the "i don't believe any higher power exists" technical definition i am.
but it's not something i've ever really thought about in any serious way, which is why i would hesitate to describe myself as such.
sorry, i'm really bad at explaining things.
calling myself an "athiest" involves taking a position on an issue i've simply never even considered. i think that's what i mean.
i fear death more than anything. i want to be immortal. anyone know any good vampires?
i mean, let's look at it objectively - you get to wear a lot of black, stay up all night and brood a lot. i do all of that _anyway_, so why not throw in immortality and some badass teeth into the mix?
obviously there are some nutters out there who make it into a mission to attack people for their belief in god...and there are those of us (like me) who will actually defend a non-belief in god if challenged.
But essentially the tern comes out of a time when not being religious was a crime and considered terrible, so those of us who aren't religious and don't have thoughts of a 'higher power' end up being atheist by default.
It should be an affirmation
Where you from? You sexy thing
1) Religion is as fanciful as pixies, fairies, and ghosts
2) All religion is control-oriented and, in modern society, is necessarily right-wing and incompatoble witnh socialism
3) Reliance on religion at a personal level is a cop-out form live's problems
but surely they affirm your belief in the non-exstence of god?
if so, why is christian rock blessed with looking and sounding like shit?
POD, yeah you know me!
religion appears to be the cause of the majority of the world's conflict, or at least is used as some form of justification for such actions.
I agree with mr traynor's point 3 above, but would argue (well not argue, I don't fancy an argument with you) that if people can find solace in religion, why shouldn't they?
My parents took me to sunday school until I was old enough to justify why I didn't wish to go, despite them not being religious themselves. I feel all aspects of religion should be treated like this; present the arguments and let people decide. Don't preach to the unconverted. I try to follow the same rules when speaking to those with faith, and try not to rubbish their beliefs.
Although, I reckon I would struggle to bite my tongue when faced with an advocate of this intelligent design idea.
religion is not the primary source of conflict in the world. faith is. and no they arne't the same thing.
socialism being as fanciful as pixies, fairies and ghosts?
number 3 is probably true though.
"All religion is control-oriented"
agreed. religion has been a political project and i struggle with the fact that, given that it so so blatantly man-made, people find it so difficult to see that.
I believe in common sense and the reality that one day I'm gonna die. I can't for a moment accept that anyone would want to use the fact someone believes in something different as a reason to kill them. It's just an excuse.
I hate that religious belief is used as a justification for the complete opposite of the positive impact the stories were meant to have.
I don't believe for one second in an age of scientific facts that any greater power is plausible. Denying science is like denying the holocaust.
I believe in the good in people and them believing in themselves to help and inspire one another, as we're all humans and we have to coexist and all deal with the fact that one day we're gonna die and what we don't do and do now is what we leave behind.
Communist regimes have persecuted religious people so technically one doesn't need a religion to kill people like that!
And people have used Catcher in the Rye as a justification for killing presidents.
And I'm sure some psycho has said an Elvis or Beatles song told him to kill.
Religion is no longer central to peoples communities and lifes. It's no longer so powerful that it's the be all and end all. This is a good thing. But the fact that its been replaced by celebrities and media, is a really bad thing because those in positions of power aren't always the nicest of people with the best intentions and don't consider the implications of the messages they're giving out and the examples of lifes they lead.
i don't think in western socities that religion has been usurped by celebrity culture. i think it has been replaced by the promise of technology - celebrities are in the vanguard of that revolution but they aren't the revolutoon itself.
religions purpose is to explain why. science's is to explain how.
personally, im an agnostic, but if you asked me to make a decision, id probably say that i think there is some higher power out there. however, id also say that i think organised religion misses the mark entirely.
science is the new religion. people assume it offers salvation.
actually, i suppose i should say that science is the new mass politics and that mass politics was the new religion.
In the beginning there was silence and darkness
All across the earth
Then came the wind and a hole in the sky
Thunder and lightning came crashing down
Hit the earth and split the ground
Fire burned high in the sky
>from down below fire melted the stone
The ground shook and started to pound
The gods made heavy metal and they saw that it was good
They said to play it louder than hell
We promised that we would
When losers say its over with you know that its a lie
The gods made heavy metal and its never gonna die
We are the true believers
Its our turn to show the world
In the fire of heavy metal we were burned
Its more than our religion its the only way to live
But the enemies of metal we cant forgive
Cause we believe in the power and the might
And the gods who made metal are with us tonight
We believe in the power and the might
And the gods who made metal are with us tonight
Were here tonight for heavy metal are you ready in the hall
They have chosen us and we have heard the call
Gonna tear the roof off with out sound
Crack the walls and shake the ground
Fight tonight for metal one and all
Cause we believe in the power and the might
And the gods who made metal are with us tonight
I think that denying the possibility of the existence of ANYTHING - tangible, plausible or otherwise - necessaerily limits your experience of life
equally - having an unflexible and righteous belief in something at the denial of other belief systems has the same affect
I shall happily disbelieve in God, the Tooth Fairy, Star Trek, Peter Rabbit, Tony Blair and all other fictitious constructs.
believed in the God from The Bible, even when i was younger. It's just never occured to me that it might me true, and i've always found the idea that people live their life by this book slightly ridiculous.
I find it very difficult to see things from the christian point of view, and when i have asked christians friends why they believe, i find the answers mostly baffling, and often i just can't understand how someone could think like that.
I think it's mostly because my family have never had any sort of religious leanings, and my parents are both naturalists (not naturists :P) so i was taught about evolution and such things at a young age. I've still got a report from Religious Education in primary 4 (age 7) which says that i was disrupting the class by airing my views on religion.
I find myself thinking that people must be so unaware, and so naive about how the world works to even think about believing in god the way Evangelicals do. 300 years ago i can understand people thinking like that, but now? I just dont get it.
Saying that, i don't find all religion ridiculous, just those people that have taken it upon themselves to take every word in the bible absolutely literally. To me, the Bible is a sort of vague guide. The stories in it are just that, STORIES. Fables, with a moral. But many people are so blinkered that they take the story as real, and generally ignore the moral.
anyway, i think i may have rambled here, and probably made the same point many times. So yes, The Bible = misunderstood.
i disagree. i think people fabricate belief systems (secular ones too) to deal with the limitations of their experience of life. so there.
a lot of what science does is cause mass depression and explains the magic of life away. surrealism offers hope.
no, of course it doesn't. but people think that scientific progress can be linear with moral and human progress.
Will GM food abolish hunger? Or will selfish individuals use it to enrich themselves?
I don't thing your comment is in disagreement with mine
i got the impression that you were suggesting that because I rule out the existence of God that my life is limited. Do expand, anyway ...
well maybe it isn't for you, but there are atheists who will gladly denounce theists as "weak willed" or "blind" or whatever, as if they won't be satisfied until everyone shares their point of view. which is a little preachy and a lot smug.
this line of inquiry will only result in showing the limitations of language and internet forums as a medium for the dissection of philosophical concepts
but I will say this
yes, your denial of the possibility of the existence of God limits your experience of life for it denies you the intellectual discovery journey of what that God or Gods might in fact be or not be
as, like you say, it feels unresolved. but i'm not happy to commit to anything either so i have no choice. it's something that bothers me quite a bit actually.
is that it's easy to write off whatever religious schools of thought you have been exposed to and thus their concept of God
It has only been through a very brief period of history that the human race (a lot of it anyway) has been obsessed with quantifying things and proving them beyond a shadow of a doubt in empirical scientific terms
I would consider science to be a religion in itself
"I would consider science to be a religion in itself"
there is a secular faith that science can deliver us from evil and solve the world's ills. just like marxism, neoliberalism etc.
i guess my main problem with this is that any journey of resolution re: the existence or non-existence of god or gods could not really be an intellectual one. I'm yet to meet someone who has adopted a particular faith on rational grounds
brought up a Catholic and made to do confirmation and all that. But I'm not a religious person and I hate the idea of organised religion and having to go to church at a particular time of the week to get told how to live my life by a blinkered old man. My parents are still quite religious (though not in a blind way thank god) and I still have to go to church sometimes when I'm at home, but I never go when I'm at uni and I think I'm quite close to convincing them that I shouldn't have to go at all.
While I hate organised religion I wouldn't be able to say that I'm certain there is no higher power, but I strongly dislike the idea of pre-destiny.
I was talking about the journey - and already we could get into semantics about the definition of the word 'rational'
the debate is a dead end
fair enough, but when i said 'rational' i meant to decide in the absence of external pressure or prejudice that you should adopt a particular faith. Not that i'm saying that i'm without prejudice.
anyway, I am a Catholic. I go to church every sunday, cause mother forces me to, and I help at the coffee morning (it's fun) and I'm well known at the church and stuff, but I don't believe in God at all.
Also I don't think the Bible was written when people think it was either.
I've always followed the evolution approach, and now I'm studying it properly the very thought that God exists just seems a joke to me, there is no way I could ever believe that, I never really did but until I was older I could never really explain to myself why. It annoys me when you get some far fetched story read out after the Gospel and people of all ages just sit there lapping it up, not questioning it at all, the healing of people who have been blind from birth, of lepers and of turning water into wine. I know many of these are meant to be parables and only a representation of their message, but the underlying message is that faith in God can do all these things, and it just can't.
I agree with Lyle though when he said that he has a profound repect for people who live their lives religiously, they are often very self disciplined people. I think going to church has probably done me some good, if just because of the fact that it teaches you morals from a very young age. Kids who go to church never turn out as charvers or thugs other kinds of undesirable people.
Guess I'm an athiest, though.
"Kids who go to church never turn out as charvers or thugs other kinds of undesirable people"
all kinds of religious zealots exist
The Inquisition went to church
can have positive effects on kids, sure (no bumming jokes plz). but i wouldn't say kids who go to church 'never' turn out badly, some of the people i knew as a kid are testament (lolol) to that.
but all the people I went are good little people.
@ Jazz: nice.
Learning morals when a child does not need religion and your view that religion helps such learning in a nasty insult to all parents who are atheists and who encourage their children to eb atheists.
" Kids who go to church never turn out as charvers or thugs other kinds of undesirable people." Stupid comment imbued with a rancid political outlook.
you stupid fuck.
I said that in my experience the kids who went to church (I was at a Christian school which was divided between catholics and, if you like, athiests) the kids who went to church were by and large better turned out than the kids who didn't. I didn't know/comprehend this at the time obviously it's just plain to see now looking back and considering where they are now.
I believe in some things though.
You know. Life. Planets. etc
I'm not sure what this makes me.
I don't believe in any kind of divine being or power, or destiny or structure. But I do kind of worship the chaos :)
some Gardjieff and Ouspensky Mr Brainlove
I'm sure you'd find it very enlightening
But some of the underlying principles are kind of similar to things I think. All this talk of "awakening", suggesting a binary system of the awakened and the unawakened, is something I'd strongly abjoect to though. I think things are much more fluid than that. I don't really believe in fully defined modes of existence in that sense at all. Everything is much too subjective.
Science is about facts not belief. Don't devalue science.
I'm talking about phenomenology and logic / experience based belief..
Use of religion as a political tool is the problem regarding international conflict, not the "faith" of individuals.
to have faith there must be religion, Jacob. But if you care to elaborate...?
i've elaborated in other posts but basically my position is that nationalism, marxism, fascism and neoliberalism are all faiths that have caused human suffering but they don't necessarily have a belief in god attached to them.
Judaeism sees the Jews as a chosen people. Marxism ascribes the same status to the proletariat. Nazism ascribes the same status to the Aryan race etc.
Christianity promises its followers deliverance from the ills of the world and, ultimately, paradise at the end of history. Doesn't Marxism make the same promise? Doesn't liberal capitalism make the same promise?
The advocates of both of these secular creeds argue that if only people adopted the norms of their faiths human liberation and widespread prosperity would follow. They think that they've solved the riddle of history.
Peopled by a deluge of agnosticism. Are you all too "cool" for religion and looking for an alternative? If you look for an alternative then you accept the need for religion or its equivalent.
Faith is an insult to human intelligence. It devalues man. To reveal an agnostic tendency, that is, to reveal a reluctance to proclaim absolute denial, is to accept than man can be devalued. To question one's views and admit some doubt is to doubt humnanity.
The intelligent and humane view is: I choose not to believe. Simple. There is no need for discussion or reflection on this view.
So someone (usually you) says what they think and that's it?
and incredibly easy.
look at the world around you.
belief is correct because that is what one believes.
Terrorists "believe" that it's OK to blow up themselves and kill innocent people.
You're saying that's right because they've been brainwashed into saying it? You say some fucking ignorant things Traynor, and then jump at the slightest thing someone else says.
I was brought up with no religious views, really. My mother is an atheist but I don't remember it ever being spoken about or anything. I'd occasionally go to Sunday School at my Granny's church when I stayed at hers, and one of my primary schools was Christian but that's it. I don't think I really thought about it.
When I was older, like 13-15, I really really wanted to believe in God. I thought it would make my life so much easier if I had that kind of blind faith but I just couldn't bring myself to believe, I just thought it was all a load of rubbish.
I find it hard to take religious people seriously. Which annoys me, because I know a couple of people who are Christians who are very nice people but their religion makes it hard for me to take everything they say seriously because it just seems so ridiculous to me.
And then there is Catholicism. Shudder.
because I was raised as one. Simple. I can't imagine thinking any other way. By the time I went to a C of E primary school, I was already an atheist, and didn't believe in the stories vwe were told.
The whole of my small family are and my fathers aid pretty much all are, so that's how it started out, but I also just can't believe in any religion, I can't believe in them because I just don't think they could be true, I'm not a big believer in things.
because youve been distracted into discussing something that is subjective.
Im an ANIMIST, so Im right, even JDT can't attack that.
and i find logically thinking about athiesm, i would have to give up the idea of absolute morality and free will if i was to believe in it. Is this true?
has done so. The connection between religion and morlaity is one of the most offensive and dishonest concepts.
surely we're just biological systems. The concept of morality as something absolute and the illiusion of free will are just artificial concepts developed by soceity in order for it to function?
saying that follows on from atheism, not that i believe that...
which involves giving up absolute morality and free will......christianity or athiesm?
I can do that myself.....in fact that is more valid......of course these absolutes are not absolutely absolute, because certainties change, so all one can do is to try to stay constant to your inner self in interpreting new circumstances......moral absolutes proscribed by others as generalisations may help with your relations with the overall society, but they can lead to horribleness and nazi'ism.
One should be strong and work out your own moral absolutes (but keep them reinterpretable)
that you use to work out the moral absolutes that is precious and individual to you....not the answer......in every circumstance (of import) you should strengthen your decision making process by revisiting your (previously established) opinion/moral.
is a natural aspect of being a sentient being.
That is what I think too, unfortunately many of these people seem scared of relying on that.....of course not all humans are always acting sentiently, so their fear is slightly justified, at the same time as being mistaken.
I think that may be because a lot of people are young (in their experiances) and so feel that they cant ignore the huge amount of patiarchal type 'advice' that they are told to follow......i.e. schooling, government, religeon.
Its no wonder so many people are convinced they are wrong to trust in being human.
words to try to deconstruct state/educational/religeous fabrications about the way the world is.......thats why I enjoyed the matrix.....if only I had a blue pill to give to people instead of my 'dry lengthy passages' (NO INNUENDO IMPLIED)
what do you mean by 'work out your own moral absolutes'? where do you find them?
based on advice trial and error, your own witness, your own doubts, fears hopes etc.....they should not be absolute, (but its knackering and distracting to always be rethinking things....maybe keep it to every 'now and again') but keep it practical......this way whether you are religeous or not then you are giving the world the benefit of YOU, not you supporting some philosopher or religeous or political 'leader'......dont you think that it is better to have lived ones life and tried to make decisions on what YOU truly believe, rather than someone else?.
Of course there are safeguards that YOU may find helpful, like, if your young and you know you are impressionable or too spontanious, then bear that in mind when atatching the weight behind your ideas......If you have been severely wronged in life, and you cant forgive even though you want to, then you can at least give caveats to others when giving your oinions/judgements.
Be yourselfand sincere and learn honestly by your mistakes....if you do that then you dont need no crummy religeon to get on your ass to make you feel guilty......your absolution is in learning from any mistakes/wrongs you do.......
Dont deny your own life.
what are you basing these decisions about what you truly believe on? what benefits you? what benefits society? some other underlying concept?
social convention constructed by consent
than if you say 'i'm an atheist' and i hate getting into religious debates because i always end up insulting someone. coming from a country/background where religion has screwed a lot of shit up, and still goes hand in hand with government policy, i really hate what it does to people.
i say, just try and be a decent person. and you'll be fine. that is all...
(I think from 'The Water Babies' of all things) which is "Do as you would be done by." It seems to work for me.
it jesus who said that?
"be excellent to each other".
Offensive and despicable juxtaposing of political outlooks in general and religious faith.
Your "position" is to attack political views that you don't like in a dishonest way.
i've attacked two pretty different political views there. and it's not as if i'm expressing an original position. or a controversial one.
You are not expressing anything. You are just writing down a knowingly-dishonest view in order to decry political outlooks.
It is not a contribution to a debate; it is an intrusion into a debate. Debate is honest views expressed and discussed. You are not doing that.
why is it dishonest?
i'm sceptical of all political outlooks which claim to have all the answers. i do not believe there is a perfect form of government so long as man is imperfect etc etc. this is why i am a social democrat and not a marxist.
i could say that you refuse to be precisely critical of anything i have to say. you simply assert that i am dishonest without attempting to back yourself up.
Like Theo was saying, my parents are and it never occurred to me to think any differently.
That said, I don't believe in the absolute power of science to explain things. I suppose this is sort of a cop-out from trying to answer the hard questions in life, but I think there is a strange sort of inherent 'magic' f(or want of a better word) in the universe. It doesn't have any sort of conciousness and doesn't control us. It just sort of keeps everything how it is. Stuff exists because it exists, everything is in a strange sort of harmony which doesn't mean only good things happen. I've explained it before, but can't really explain it now. I might try and dig out the MSN conversation where I talked about it properly if only for my own satisfaction.
The universe and everything in it is in a sort of harmony and has a collective conciousness, demonstrable in cause and effect and how everything fits together in a logical order, which is, simultaneously utterly illogical. There is no reason for any of it existing in the way it does other than blind chance, but because everything is sort of distantly interlinked that has caused it, so the blind chance and the rational explanations are inextricably linked. There are no real first causes, everything came together at once I suppose, you can't explain it and there is a sort of magic to it which ought to be respected because it accounts for all the real sciency stuff, but also all the philosophical problems too.
It makes sense to me anyway
it's just a vague idea in my head. i'm not trying to fob it off as a way to live life, and i'm not writing a scholarly book on it. it's just something which has been knocking around for a while, and in writing it down here, it's helped me explore it.
Snide comments on other people's belief systems are too lazy and worthless to waste time rebuffing.
science can never resolve everything, because, it relies on language and communication.
We all know that langueage and communication and equations are flawed as they are subjective to experiance, since human science has not experianced everything our definitions are subjective.
Inside oneself one can feel whole with the whole universe (I can sometimes anyway.....huzzah for me) this is where perhaps the warm fuzzyness of religeous experiances comes in.....feeling one, completion, Im lucky cos I dont have to attatch some made up rubbishy doctrine to my warm fuzzy complete feelings.
are lightling bolts of pure clarity, and stunning well being (based on the reasoning that everything is going to be alright, nothing matters, because at this moment I know and see everything, and because I suddenly feel like this I know others can too, ) I remember these moments with warm fuzzy feelings.
I'll get me coat
"I don't believe in the absolute power of science to explain things. "
That is the role of science: To explain things. To deny that is to deny science, and you might as well believe in fairies.
Scientific fact is, necessarily, prone to change as more knowledge is acquired. However, it exists to explain.
it will never explain everything
science needn't explain everything. there is an element of blind chance which needs to be accepted. however, since the blind chance also eventually caused us to exist, we need to sort of just bear in mind that is why it is
caused us to exist?
Just because something is blind chance doesn't mean science can't explain it, it just means that it was unlikely.
one would have thought that one who had had their testicles crushed would have been especially suitable for the church as there wouldnt have been any possibility of all the abuse scandels......(dont be offended.......years before it was treated seriously, many many many jokes were made about vicars/priests and choirboys.......bizarrely no on took it seriously then.)
So im going to be the biggest ignoramus ever to live.
I tried thinking about this matter a long time ago but i just came to the conclusion that nothing exists or can be justified, which made me pretty depressed.
So now i learned to stop thinking about it, and just give in to modern life. Justify life by buying stuff or getting rich. Its just the same as being religious, because none of it matters. Therefore all of it matters. This can go on...
Sometimes, there is simply not enough information available to make a binary yes/no decision. To suggest that everyone must have a nice, tidy answer to entire sum of human thought on spirituality and divinity is not right. Admitting doubt is sometimes braver than sitting in some entrenched, inflexible, dogmatic position.
Lets face it.
No one is ever going to have an answer to it. There is never going to be an answer... ever. So theres not really any point in trying to think about it. Trust me, i have.
People discovered this ages ago and invented religion to give their life a purpose when they couldent find a definite one. Therefore, ignorance IS bliss.
And just because something is difficult, doesn't mean it should be blocked out. That actually is a cop out.
Sometimes people dont have enough information to feel they can make a decision in which case they shouldnt, nor should they 'borrow' someone elses decision/opinion, their mission should then be to find out learn about those areas that matter to them that they are ignorant on.
its impossible. So it isnt really a cop out. Well, it is unless its intentional ignorance... if that makes sense. People who dont think about it are idiots, but your an idiot if you think too much about it because you will never get an answer and it just drives you crazy. If youre ignorant in the general sense then you will be generally happy, but people will think youre a dick, but you wont care that they think that because your ignorant. It is all very confusing.
and think your way through it as best you can, being aware of the impossibility of a final conclusion, and accepting that opinions change due to experience and additional information as it becomes available, it doesn't have to drive you crazy. I reckon. Although accepting that you know nothing is a fundamental in Buddhism, isn't it.
i'm not an atheist, i'm an anti-theist. ah, i love that.