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It's 12 episodes per series right? Gah who cares.
Not great so far right?
Not so happy about poor Sansa
not that stoked about watching this one
I suppose it is annoying that a lot of the things set in place in the first series are STILL unresolved. Is winter ever coming? Will those White Walkers ever get to the wall? When exactly is Daenaeryis (sp) going to head up to the iron throne?
But it's still well written, well acted and exciting. Loving the incipient Tyrion/Jora Bromance as well.
definitely miles better than the last series but probably nowhere near the previous ones.
Can a book person tell me what the difference is between *spoilersssssssssssssssssssssssssssss* the sansa rape scene in the tv show and what happens in the book? cos book people were angry about that for some reason, thought it was kinda fine.
in the books sansa doesn't go back to winterfell, doesn't get married and doesn't get raped
(as far as I can remember)
IIRC Sansa is still roughly back at the end of Season 4 in the books so all the story we're seeing for her (more or less) is new.
Most of this Season is either new or characters substituting for other characters to simplify things.
As best as I recall:
Sansa Stark has a maid/friend called Jeyne Poole who is, I think, in the show in Season 1 at least. She travels to King's Landing with the group.
The Lannister's decide that as Arya is dead they will pretend that she is Arya Stark and send her to Ramsay Bolton as part of their attempt to help him secure The North for them.
So she ends up in Winterfell as a pretend Arya (to the best of my knowledge, the Boltons are aware of the subterfuge) and ends up wed to Ramsay. He does far worse to her but equally I don't actually recall the reader having to dwell on it, rather what happens is alluded to.
There you go.
A nice summation of why I stopped watching the TV show.
It's like D&D scoured the books for any sex or violence, marked it with a pink highlighter, then wrote in the margin - "how can we make this worse?"
The Red Wedding was unforgivable in the way it treated Robb's wife - who wasn't even supposed to be there.
The scene where Joffrey forced two prostitutes to beat each other was unforgivable - followed by his murder of one of them, tied to a bed and used as target practice.
The scene where they return to Crasters Keep, where some wanker's DRINKING OUT OF A SKULL and TALKING IN HIS EVIL VOICE about how they're going to "rape his wives to death" - unforgivable.
Three strikes, and more second chances than it deserves.
Absolutely fuck this show.
Changing Dany and Drogo's wedding night from Drogo's surprisingly consensual approach winning Dany over to him just shouting NO while brutally raping her
surprisingly consensual approach to shagging a 13 year old
it's a nice observation though, good job
I'm never sure if they're supposed to be actually like our world cos adults seem to either be 30 or 102, and Robb is like 14 and is some master warrior and tactical genius or some shit
Regardless, I didn't say that it actually was consensual, just that in the books Dany is expecting to be brutally abused and Drogo asks her permission at every stage. There's obviously the fact that Dany objectively doesn't have much choice, but it does contrast with the show's approach. Also as such the "romance" that blossoms between two makes a modicum more sense than in the show where later Dany's like "how do I please him?" :(
It also taps into my worries about the current Sansa storyline - the showrunners love using sexual abuse as a shocking plot point, but it never seems to have any long term consequences for the character - it's always just a quick trope to make them the strong survivor and then forget about it immediately
Sorry. I no do words no god
a) they have actively changed Sansa's storyline and character development to have her raped for shock value. At the moment where Sansa gained a sense of agency and control they remove it and just revert back to Sansa is a prisoner and gets abused trope
b) they have done this for the benefit of the story arc of 2 male characters. Oh is Theon sad? That's what matters is it?
c) the consequences are damaging to the plot and other characterisations - eg Littlefinger, arch master planner and schemer looks like a total chump because the show's version of his grand master plan is total bullshit that makes zero sense
d) they have left out one of the books' great characters and gave his iconic line to some nameless old lady
I mean, fucking hell, there was a bit where they literally washed Sansa's character development out of her hair. Cos in D&D land dying your hair black=empowerment
i suppose i was just taking it in isolation, and i don't think showing marital rape in arranged/forced marriages is at all inappropriate for he time/setting etc compared to, say, the jaime/cercei one which was just absurdly gratuitous.
And you're right about Theon. I thought he was there because he was going to do something, kind of threw me off when he didnt and i didn't really know what to make of it. But yeah youre right
she's always been 100% shit character
she squared up to that lassie that was washing her hair
But they shaped up at the end of the last season to follow her book arc, then seeming went "actually no, let's send her to Winterfell to get raped and be a prisoner of a psycho again". She was no longer a prisoner, no longer at the whims of a madman, and at the end of season 4 had shown her capacity to play the game and start twisting people to her own ends. Now back to square one. All so Theon can be sad
(trying to think of things old ladies have said but can't think of anyone other than that scene right at the start with young Cersei.)
The north remembers. And this farce is almost done.
The show is run by people who filmed a rape scene and then were called out on it were like "What? That wasn't a rape scene!" - they're so far past the line they don't even know what consensual sex looks like
But it runs for 11 weeks because there's a week off somewhere for some special weekend in the US.
I haven't read the books, but I hear this is about the point where the TV series gets ahead of the books and the stories diverge. Given that their making it up as they go along now it could explain the quality of the writing taking a bit of a dip.
They've just decided to sack them off and do whatever they want
can't imagine how horrible it must've been for someone with more reason to be affected by it
that you could be guilty of rape within marriage. Like within our lifetimes.
Remember that? Urgggghhh.
Arya spent last series walking around now she's just constantly washing stuff. But this week she lied to a dying kid so that means she's ready to see the room full of Girls World dolls. Zzzzz.
Stuff with Dragon-bono started to show signs of something interesting but it seemed to serve mainly to fuel that love story between No-Balls and Melis... oh google it, who can actually remember the names.
Tyrion is the best character and now he's pootling around in places we don't care about with people we don't care about for reasons we don't care about. Ugh.
The fighting girls of Dorne - could be interesting, but probably won't be until they've spent at least half a series travelling somewhere.
As for Sansa and that last scene - fuck off.
Thank fuck for Granny Martell showing up! Love her! :)
We've got some good stuff coming up though - I'm looking to seeing the aftermath of the off-screen battle between Stannis, Bolton, and Littlefinger's Vale folk.
Then episode nine will probably have the death of a major character. Candidates are:
Cersei - not sure The Faith will like her incestuous relations and those relations have already been nodded to twice in dialogue so it's probably going to come up.
Jon Snow - people's hero, leader of the Night's Watch. He's been wearing a red jumper for the last two series I reckon.
Bronn - hope not, but he's running out of reasons to be on screen.
Jamie - makes most sense probably.
And yes, pretty much in full agreement.
TBF we have entered the bits of the books where it was clear GRRM was hitting massive writer's block and sort of spinning out some stories.
He did write some great other bits with new characters though. The TV show has just decided to write all those characters out.
All I can think is "They wrote Arianne out for *this* shit"
And why they hired Alexander Siddig as Doran, only for him not to be in it, lord knows
just realised I meant Granny Tyrell. Sorry everyone.
people provided concise answers
Sorry if I've impacted on your enjoyment of the show in any way. I'll stick to the book reader thread in future and I hope I didn't spoil anything for you
it's fine. the last few have been so rough it's dramatically reduced the amount I care about the show / care about staying unspoiled anyway tbh =(
There's not much to spoil any more
thinking about the energy and the beefing of the competing s4 threads, when we still cared about the show =')
The season 5 book reader thread is dead because there's only so many times you can say "go fuck yourselves D&D"
I would genuinely like to meet them and chat to them about adapting it, because they nailed it for 3 years, wobbled the 4th then collapsed totally in the 5th. And all the characters and scenes that I love they seem to fucking hate
From a creative point of view I suspect it's because they have basically stopped adapting the books and starting writing their own alternative fan fiction
That Sand Snake fight in the last episode was some weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeak arsed shit man. Looked like a media studies project my mate did for GCSE
Also seems a massive waste of money to shoot half the Dorne scenes in Seville, then do the rest on the bloody Antrim coast. "Look at this desert land! It looks just like Ballymoney!"
"Just move about a bit and hit each other's weapons with your weapons and then get captured. I'm off for lunch."
it's been so long since I read Book 4: have they basically shrunk the entire plot down to about 3 scenes spread over 3 episodes?
religious police- some CLUNKY modern day metaphor or something GRIND
Daenyryrs and her little helpers
- worm guy (brooding about lack of goolies yawn)
- old fella who died (had he said anything before? 2 minutes of character exposition then death, thank god we got some character exposition otherwise that death would have meant nothing to me)
- that guy who is one of the families elders who, oh well just everything going on wherever she is
-the big lady and Pob
Things I'm swiftly losing patience with
- many faced fella
- other sand people (lady fighters)
Things I still like
- Sersey being a bitch still
- dwarf man
- Robson (Jerome?)
- sometimes, SOMETIMES one of them says something clever
- boobs and bums
- gratuitous violence
went from being pious people who fed the poor to shanking gays like it ain't no thing in the space of 2 scenes
you look at all the ramped up sexual violence, how it comes in again and again and again, and you start to think "what goes through the minds of people who seem to be falling over themselves to cram in sexual violence"
maybe all this says something about the creators of the tv show
it's complete cack. there's nothing happening that's even remotely interesting at the moment. there are still good characters and it's still vaguely interesting what happens to them, but seemingly nothing in the short term.
i do wonder if the boredom plus the misogyny are actually going to dent the viewing figues. probably not, probably Too Big To Fail at this point
apart from ep 1 which had their best viewing figures ever
Reckon coverage/viewing figures will steadily decline until The Last Ever Episode when everyone will bang on about it again, briefly. See also: Lost, Mad Men, etc etc
8 million for s05e01
every season had considerably higher ratings than the previous, which is unusual for US TV shows but fairly consistent with these kind of 'box set' cable shows (Walking Dead, Breaking Bad etc)
Look, here's a handy graph http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Thrones#Viewer_numbers
It's by far HBO's highest rated programme, and the level it gets would keep it alive on some of the mainstream networks, let alone a subscription cable channel.
would be a good start to fixing things up
- someone somehow invents a wood chipper and Sansa throws Ramsay in it, balls first
- ...let's workshpp this
Grey Wind = dead. head chopped off and stitched onto Robb Stark's body
Lady = dead. Stabbed by Ned for having a shit name
Shaggydog = Alive with Rickon wherever the fuck he is
Summer = have a rare old time in tree faery land with Bran
Nymeria = running free in the Riverlands
Ghost = at the wall when the show occasionally remembers Jon has him
Ahhh I was trying to remember when he'd died.
rickon is blates gonna ride in at the end all grown up and kill all the baddies. end up being the final warden of the north & running winterfell.
we should do a 'guess the ending' thread
I thought he was off to Castle Black to be looked after by Jon?
He goes off in the show as he does in the books and we know no more about him, although there is a lot to suspect.
him and loads of russians
great bunch o' lads
Not noticeably worse than the last series. Obviously there's a lot of groundwork to lay for later events.
He is so good at turning on being really fucking angry. it was the only truly convincing bit of the whole episode.
Gotta say, I am losing faith. I will keep watching because I want to see Bran mind control a dragon. hurry that up.
1) Tyrion is clever, so he has a perceptive insight about another character
2) This insight, if spoken aloud, will definitely cause that person to punch him in the head
3) Tyrion is so pleased with himself that he overlooks 2) and tells them
4) Tyrion gets punched in the head
Last seen in the previous episode with him and Ser Friendzone in the boat, I think. Possibly in the most recent one too, haven't seen it
becasue it amuses me every time. that whole boat scene, was just waiting for the right hook.
he also demands wine in every scene too.
might just be dry skin
most enjoyable one of the season very, very easily
good fight scenes, good tyrion beating up a guy, good cersei getting hers, good bron almost dying
and crystallises one of the issues I had with her rape at the end of the last episode, which is really that Ramsay now has to be Bond villain rather than an actual psychopath. Because really he should have maimed Sansa (and Reek). That's what he does, that's how he's evil. Instead we now probably have to witness him being affected by script immunity of characters.
Prior to last episode there was a feeling that Littlefinger really must have had some hold over him, that there would be a reason why he wasn't being a ridiculous psychopath, one better than his dad being a bit stern with him.
the fact that Ramsey's expecting to be the Lord of Winterfell kind of means that he has to control his usual impulses because I'm sure that it wouldn't send the best message for his wife to appear disfigured in any way by his sadism
Other thoughts, I'm kind of wondering when Tommen is finally going to stand up to the High Sparrow, those guys are practically running King's Landing now.
Some utterly shameless gratuitous nudity in that episode :-D
in one of those ridiculous PG we're in bed type ways. She's had them out before. What was the deal with that?
maybe episode one.
Are you a boob lawyer?
I'll check tonight and report back.
definitely a brief flash of Dragon Mother nipple.
but I don't think they have portrayed him as rational enough to overcome them. Equally, he should have harmed Reek, regardless, as no one will care.
As for maiming, well losing fingers, etc. is different and is covered up (as Theon does).
I thought yer Dornish lady had a poisonous minge.
it's all ramping up.
nicely played, old crazy seven star mage.
to be really disapointing.
That scene with bronn in genuinely made me a bit angry, just how brazen and how absolutely pointless it is. Still have no idea what that character's name is, but at least i've seen her boobs!
Thought cercei's thing was the most obvious plot twist i've possibly ever seen. Saw it coming like three or four episodes off. And then after what we talked about last week re rape, getting whatshername 'nearly raped' for very little reason, except so some bad people had a reason to beat up sam, didn't really sit well imo.
"for very little reason, except so some bad people had a reason to beat up sam"
I actually thought the reason was the even more dubious one of "Ghost is still here!" which leaves the viewer with, "Well why the hell isn't he off with Jon now" followed by, "Oh, they must be going to need him in some forthcoming pivotal plot point".
made me cringe loads when ghost popped up. I guess at this point he/the dire wolves are basically the show's bespoke deus ex machina. Expecting Nymeria to turn up out of nowhere and save Sansa at some point this series.
the scene with bronn was her audition scene
casting couch levels of grossness
that definitely isn't going to be embarrassingly shit!
(my all time favourite GoT meme)
they didn't go and re-film all of this week's rape-y stuff. Completely lost the plot. And what was with Tyene getting her boobs out? Completely out of character for someone from Dorne to be sexy like that.
i've spent the last few minutes thinking you're silly!
And I like Bronn. And boobs.
but i think she showed him her tatas to give him a boner and promote blood circulation and therefore speed up the poison so she could be in control of teh antidote at the right time
if a show can have a cock merchant without rationalising it, it can have Sexy Boner Activated Poison without rationalising it, surely
it's pretty obvious
before they revealed that it was poison, i thought they were just saying she was so hot that his dick got so hard he passed out
er, me neither
to be an evil daemon in her fanny
the fanny demon has to be the most out-there thing the show has done, right? in terms of dropping mad shit into a show that's not generally super heavy on fantastical elements?
anything more ludicrous that I'm forgetting?
Is pretty incongruous.
some fairly prominent dragons
insofar as it's possible to have a sliding scale for these things though, are dragons not slightly closer to possible than "fanny demon smoke assassin"?
^hasn't seen old ma balonz' cigarette trick
but it was still rubbish. and didn't need extensive lingering boob shots to get there.
Much as they were appreciated of course.
but with boners
Seems to be a step in the right direction (other than the obvious shit bits mentioned above)
caught up, i actually have really enjoyed the series. maybe it's because i watched eps 4 to 7 in a row, but it felt like it was escalating nicely. the kinda weak first two episodes actually have resonance now in the later episodes, which is good.
additionally, my "copies" have a nice "previously on GoT" that is excellent, pulling information from not just the previous episode but all the way back to S01. That's neat.
Anyway, I'm on board again.
- Loved Cersi getting telt.
- Loved Ghost just appearing and being like "sup, fellas?" - though, what the fuck is Jon doing going North without him?
- The speed at which Daenerys' storyline has accelerated in the past two episodes has caused me serious whiplash. it's like 4.5 seasons of fuck all and suddenly everything in 0.25 of the fifth season.
- spoiled myself earlier with regards to the rest of the season a bit, which annoyed me. fucking AV Club, luring me into a false sense of security assuming most articles would be non-book articles. Oops.
Because there's about three books' worth of tedious bum water where very little happens that we've just sped through.
AV Club clearly mark which ones are for book readers and which ones are for "newbies"
These people shouldn't be allowed outside/to vote.
we all got that
(preferred El's earlier post going out to bat for excessive rape on TV)
It is excessive, but I've found the outrage pretty naive. It's a trashy tv show that's had OTT sex and violence since day one. Not excusing it but what do people expect from rating-chasing American tv execs? I was far more disturbed seeing innocent people get vapourised in the PG film Tomorrowland.
some numpty thinking it was Brienne who had been skinned and flayed by Ramsey in the last ep!
The Dany/Tyrion scenes were just wonderful. Plus, y'know, other stuff happened too.
If you'd told me before it started that Arya and Jaqen's scene would be the dullest in the episode I really wouldn't have believed you!
Instead of "On this week's Game of Thrones, Arya completes some household admin"
that was a fucking great episode
totally thought they were gonna start wading into the water when he was staring them down
fucking boss episode, top stuff, well done all
rather than piss around with the dragon glass?
so losing the obsidian is real bad.
I think there was a bit where Lannister Dance said that there were only three people left in the world who knew how to temper Valyrian steel or something. One of them broke Ned Bean's sword and made those two smaller swords.
i tend to switch off at all the fantasy/magic sword mumbo jumbo and i've not read the books.
diamond pickaxe to mine obsidian anyway
good trying to kill people stuff
very good stuff
Jon and yer white walker clashed swords and they looked at each other like 'say what?!'
unless it's like, y'know, thank the many-headed god an episode was fun for a change
the hardhome scene was a bit...cartoonish, though the pay-off at the end was REALLY good
Qyburn's "the work continues" or whatever line it was he said. was he referring to him reanimating that Icelandic dude? i'm still expecting Mountain Cersei Prison Break any time. thought it was going to be this episode
Where the walker just looks and Jon Snow and raises his arms like "Aye m'on then!"
Was on the edge of the sofa shouting "intae these bastards!" at the screen.
I enjoyed that. Kicked up a notch. Way too invested in this show.
well thought we were on for a zombie giant
Not just in terms of the action (which was magnificently taut) but dialogue, the procession of storytelling, linking different stories together thematically.
One of the best I'd say. Probably third after Rains of Castamere and Blackwater
Fans of the Heresy theory are *not* happy this morning!
without book spoilers?
into the duality of fire and ice symbolism in the books, and the overarching conclusion that maybe the Others/White Walkers aren't actually full on bad guys.
but probs because the Others are a bunch of wanker kill-bots.
and things people have said.
I think it actually goes a bit further than gunslinger said in that people believe the others are actively good and only come out to restore balance to the world when fire becomes too powerful and uncontrolable i.e Dany reawakening dragons
So obviously they're not too happy that they're pretty violently massacring people in the show :D
On westeros.org threads have a page limit of 100. Heresy is currently on it's 30th thread
I like the weird hyperspeed Harryhausen stop-motion kind of feel the white walking dead zombie skeletons had.
Good scenes for everyone, nothing really wasted or pointless at all.
Well done Reek, get it out. Go on Sansa!
Go on Jon! (should have pointed his sword at the shore though)
Poor Ser Friendzone.
Well done Tyrion and Egg Mum for having a proper conversation.
Go on Arya, get more faces!
Good stuff. actually bit a nail.
Boob count - zero
Coincidence? Don't think so
other than that..p boring. I'm just watching now because I've invested this much time watching it so far I might as well carry on and find out what happens. Extremely slowly.
where he chased a woman through the woods with a crossbow and then fed her to the dogs
hope she does well in the white walker army, has a good career
Still not fussed about Boring Mormont and that "I want to break the wheel!" stuff was well naff.
Looks like the Arya storyline is finally stepping up, Sansa/Reek stuff was brief yet interesting, I'm intrigued by that hilarious and charismatic Ramsey's scheme for Stannis' men. I reckon a fight scene between him and the red woman would be amazing.
Also, Frankenmountain vs that giant pls.
Jon Snow though! :D I like how the Wildlings have been divided up between the Night's Watch and the White Walkers, removing that middle player. Took me a while to realise where I'd seen Karsi (Borgen) but thought she was great.
Is that little weird kid with the chip on his shoulder about his family being killed by Wildlings going to be trouble?
And neither should you.
Perhaps she is? Perhaps she is not? It's all the same to the faceless gods.
Dick off dick.
What is she if she is not that before she is this in the eyes of the many-faced-god?
Way to turn the cool assassin guys into boring weirdos.
now I just want arya to punch him in the cock and get back to taking on people twice her size
If you're going to go off script you may as well be dramatic and thrilling rather than problematic and boring.
Not sure how it's going to be going back to whichever shitty 2nd Unit Director is doing the fights down in Dorne, though.
stannis is a bad man
why yet another act of unbelievable cruelty?
Felt quite cynical to then have the discussion between Tyrion and Stabby McShitbeard. Find to give a little nod to the frustrations that some of the audience have - but it feels like they're continually rubbing our face it in, and for what benefit?
just that music on with the daenerys pictures, loop it a couple of times, tight focus on her smiling face, rainbow wipe. scene.
gf was BAWLING at the sacrifice scene. terrible fx and arya was BEYOND fucking terrible this ep
Glad they ended with the awesome battle with Dany though. Ending with sacrifice would have just been too much.
about every single horrible/cruel thing that happens on this show. I agree that the criticisms about the shows/books treatment of rape are entirely justified, but after seeing a ton of people complain about the Stannis/Shireen thing this week, it kind of got me a bit annoyed. The scene wasn't a supposedly "shocking" plot twist, it had clearly been on the cards for a few episodes. It was completely in character for Stannis in his desperation (lest we forget we first met him burning alive relatives for not believing), and seemingly serves an actual purpose in moving the plot and story forward, as well as Stannis' (and all those associated with him really) character. Yes, the scene was horrible to watch, but brilliantly well done, and elicited a real emotional response from pretty much everyone I know who watched it. I (and most people I know) didn't walk away thinking "thats shit", most of us were instead shot through with adrenaline, and angry not at the show, but at Stannis himself. Which is pretty much what a good TV show should hope to achieve.
But the thing is for me, I watch GoT to be entertained. For all that it is in character, that Stannis is desperate, that it's been on the cards for a few weeks etc, I simply do not want to watch someone burn their daughter alive.
I've sat through and enjoyed 5 series so far, but the enjoyment has gone out of it recently. Maybe it's the natural limit of my caring about these characters or maybe it's all the nastiness in this series building up and Shireen is the final straw, or both, but I think this series will be it for me.
John snow scenes underwhelming
Lack of cersei and reani-mountain disappointing
Great lines from tyrion, as ever
Arya is doing a bad job of forgetting herself
Sacrifice was not cool
dorne scenes had a bit of purpose, nice politics from Jamie
Dragon scene should have been amazing but....but.... How can spears stick in a dragon? Shouldn't their scales be made of iron?
No expense spared on the fx
Like aactv says, was probably the most I have shouted at the TV for ages. Come on fingerless sailor man, just take her with you! Come back!
Come on dragon, get here! *hears screexh* YES!
Oh no, this looks SHIT!!!
who was the guy arya was following? some lannister heavy?
killed* syrio, her water dancing teacher.
Mainly I'd forgotten that Tyrell was on the small council so I thought he must be there to fund machinations to help the Queen of Thornes, which led me to think this guy was just a guard in his house.
but srsly the fx in the last scene very nearly ruined the entire episode. It's 2015 ffs, how the fuck did they manage to date it by at least 10 years? If they were trying to cut costs I'd say the last scene of the penultimate episode is a bad time to do it.
The fight with the white walkers was absolutely flawless!
I think it's the effect of having to do that scene in bright sunshine plus how unlikely a dragon looks.
Personally I don't think it looked bad at all. A few slightly dodgy bits but the dragon fire stuff looked really excellent.
just a guy with a big flamethrower. The dragons were actually more firey back in season three when they were like a quarter the size
The two of you can't even agree why it was terrible.
dragons are supposed to have basically conquered a continent. They're not gonna do that with the sort of fire that can be created by a guy carrying a big can of methane gas
But flamethrowers only exist in modern times. How long do you think a dragon would last against depleted uranium rounds fired by an Apache AH-64?
You've got a big flying flamethrower in mediaeval times and you're onto a winner.
The dragons they rode to take over the seven kingdoms are far far bigger. Drogon (?) is still really young. The largest of those original three could have swallowed a mammoth whole.
that spears can stick into him, instead of just bouncing off
but still woken up angry at how shit that last scene was.
I'll give you that.
also, i know it isn't the first time you see it, but this time was especially great - the way it walks like a bat using the middle of its wings. brilliant.
I hate Arya. She has no presence.
Think either the red woman or stannis or both is going to be the big scalp at the end of this season.
Why did the freefolk make their fortress at the bottom of a cliff in the last episode? Real amateur stuff from them.
Another week of D&D destroying one of my all time favourite fictional characters.
They're basically outright trolling Stannis fans at this point
Don't make the mistake I did of Googling GRRM's comments on that. Seriously avoid.
I really regret it. Book 6 spoilers basically that absolutely no one needed, IMO.
D&D were like "George told us!" but what I've seen from GRRM said he merely suggested it to them for where their version of the story was as after all Shireen isn't with Stannis in the book.
I suspect that it will happen (Mel's had machinations on her for ages due to the fire from stone prophecy) but I have a hunch it would be Mel and Selyse on their own.
BOOK SNOBBERY FOLLOWS
So we go from book "No burnings. Pray harder" and "If I die take this gold and place Shireen on the throne or die in the attempt" to TV "burn my only heir". I guess writing nuance is kinda beyond these guys so easier to just make him a religious fanatic instead
I didn't want to read more from GRRM tbh, because it logically follows that we can interpret the message Jon receives from the south in his final chapter. I mean so much of Book 5 is left completely unsure so seeing anything given as definite means other unanswered things suggest their own resolutions.
Can he just hurry up an finish the fucker...
he is burning his brother-in-law. He also kills his own brother.
How is this such a stretch for his character?
In the show that's in s4 and in the books he's very much alive - hence my point about how the showrunners are ruining Stannis - they've openly said they hate him and would've cut him if he wasn't so important to the story.
In the books Stannis is a committed atheist who just goes along with Mel because his wife believes and it is clear that Mel has some sort of power.
His brother was a traitor who had the square route of zero claim to the throne and made his own plans to kill Stannis. Renly got what he deserved.
I'll stop shortly cos I'm being too book wankery and fidel is closing in on me, but in ASOIAF, Stannis is a complicated, fascinating character who constantly struggles with what is easy and what is right and which the show has just reduced to "religious fanatic" and desperate for power. It's my only real bone of contention with the show overall, which current series aside they've done a great job of adapting
Like they had him lead the attack in Blackwater whereas in the books I thought he just sat on Dragonstone and mooched?
Also, I felt like he's shown himself to be far more of a father to Shireen than in the books, although obviously I'm excepting opting to burn her alive...
I don't think he's a committed atheist at all, he's seduced by Melisandre's powers and her prophecy that he is AA reborn. Even if he still has his moments of doubts, those things fuel him as much as his belief that he is the rightful king, which, let's face it, is bollocks anyway - all he has to go on that Joffrey wasn't the rightful heir after Robert's death is a statement from "traitor" Ned Stark and idle gossip - in the world of the books, no one can prove that Joffrey isn't legitimate, and Stannis could have ignored Ned, knelt to Joffrey, had a seat on the small council and had a much better time of things. He WANTS to be king as much as anyone). Yes you can justify him killing Renly because he would have killed Stannis and he didn't have a claim (of course, he did, the only legitimate claim is the force required to win and hold the throne), but he still flat out magic-murdered him, and gave the nod to murdering his in-laws - the guy is a kinslayer in all senses.
He's complicated and fascinating, but, I repeat, a prick.
I'll just say you're wrong
"It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother. The Lannister woman gave him horns and made a motley fool of him. She may have murdered him as well, as she murdered Jon Arryn and Ned Stark. For such crimes there must be justice. Starting with Cersei and her abominations. But only starting. I mean to scour that court clean"
"These pardoned lords would do well to reflect on that. Good men and true will fight for Joffrey, wrongly believing him the true king. A northman might even say the same of Robb Stark. But these lords who flocked to my brother’s banners knew him for a usurper. They turned their backs on their rightful king for no better reason than dreams of power and glory, and I have marked them for what they are. Pardoned them, yes. Forgiven. But not forgotten"
"I stopped believing in gods the day I saw the Windproud break up across the bay. Any gods so monstrous as to drown my mother and father would never have my worship, I vowed. In King’s Landing, the High Septon would prattle at me of how all justice and goodness flowed from the Seven, but all I ever saw of either was made by men."
"We all know what my brother would do. Robert would gallop up to the gates of Winterfell alone, break them with his warhammer, and ride through the rubble to slay Roose Bolton with his left hand and the Bastard with his right. I am not Robert. But we will march, and we will free Winterfell … or die in the attempt."
The show's version of Stannis lands so far away it makes me sad
to support his own ambitions. Yes he can justify it as a matter of honour and duty, but that's the lie he's selling, and he sells it so well he believes it himself. Look what he says about Cersei - she had nothing to do with murdering John Arryn, but Stannis is happy to believe it to support his position.
Add to that a lifetime of inferiority complex next to his charismatic brothers, and the seductions of a new religion that has proved its glamorous powers to him, and you've got Stannis as the prick he is. He's fascinating, complex character and I love reading about him, but I don't like him and can't really see him as heroic character (same as most characters, really).
Okay, so the notion that a dark haired person will ALWAYS have dark haired kids is presumably absolute bollocks from a science point of view, but the thing about Cersei killing Arryn: why wouldn't he believe that? Ned believed it because he was led by Lysa whom he trusted. You can't say his evidence is flimsy because you know the truth, he's been presented with what amounts to an excellent case.
That said, I'm with you and think Stannis came across as a prick in the books. I'm re-reading now and will be interested to see if I like him more this time. Mainly he feels like a character you only get behind because he's about to help out the characters you really like, e.g. Blackwater, the Wildlings, then marching on Winterfell.
and get sad that everyone says he's a cunt
Massacred starving peasants revolting
But we need him to be a paedo to *really* hate him
often of late the superfans seem to get annoyed and assume people are complaining about *all* the grimdark/awful stuff that's going on in the show. But really it's just that so much of it is in the service of absolutely nothing whatsoever.
Like the burning made sense in the context of the show, I was more annoyed because it's part of their continual attempts to ruin a character in the books I adore and find fascinating.
I think recently it feels almost like they've lost their confidence in using the characters and motivations to create drama and increasingly have to go to tropes like having someone rape someone to remind us they're bad.
They also seem scared of introducing new characters which undermines the drama too. They wrote our Arriane who would've made Dorne scenes so much better as the tension in those scenes with Doran arguing which his daughter rather than some lady that happened to be knobbing his brother in Ellaria would be so much more powerful imo
to read the books far more than I did before.
might just block out a weekend.
it's stopped being character driven, completely. During the good seasons part of the fun was trying to anticipate what was going to happen, as the plot was always driven by the internal logic of the characters' personalities playing against each other. These days it's impossible to predict cos they've just abandoned that approach.
is right up there with the best of the best isn't it?
'I don't believe it!'
'Oysters, clams and cockles'
is that now the one true heir to the kingdom of westeros?
Gendry, Beric Dondarrion, Thoros, Edmure Tully, The Blackfish and Hot Pie having a secret rave in the Riverlands
Until never ending story at the end, I thought their version of Daznak's Pit was a lot more exciting than the book version, which would not have worked on screen at all
Who doesn't love a poisoned olive?
doesn't the book leave it open as to whether hizdahr was behind the attempt to kill dany? whereas in the tv show, they make it clear he wasn't since he gets killed too
he just got killed in the melee, maybe a son of the harpy didn't realise it was him
I think he wasn't meant to be THE Harpy - don't people think that is the Green Grace lady?
Is my top pick. Trying to incite Dany into annihilating the masters so he can be top dawg.
"you're late. where were you?"
"oh, i was just making sure everything was in order..." *twirls villainous moustache*
Mmm, spicy honey locusts
I knew it wasn't dates, because that was the monkey in Raiders.
Is what i like and want more off:
2. Zombies/White Walkers
3. Sarkiness with Tyrion/Varys/Mark gattis
What i don't want:
1. Children being burnt alive
2. Female characters being raped
But can't believe Khaleesi has such a devout following when she is SUCH a twat
Need more Tyrion and Jon Snow. Less Ayra in cockle selling mode and killing of children. Really hope someone ends up killing Melissandre.
all that stuff has the solid feel of "this is happening because the showrunners say it is" rather than feeling like it *should* be happening, if that makes sense.
and that time she burnt someone alive to get some soldiers
doesn't seem that hot any more
Harpys Harpys, yeah we're here
Harpys Harpys, taste the fear
Mask on yeah, chiv you up seen
Harpys Harpys all over your screen
I'm pretty much sure those are the exact words.
They're the faith of the Seven, the established church of most of Westeros.
Melisandre is a priestess of the Red God.
how about the now boring faceless many faced oyster and cockles crew? and that dude who disappeared a couple of series ago who kept getting killed and coming back to life?
That's another god, or maybe the many faced god is all gods. It's hard to tell.
the other one I'm talking about is the guy with the eye patch who kept getting murdered and brought back to life by his mate. they were like bandits on the run or something.
I can't remember if you're a book wanker or not but it seems like they basically just gave up on his storyline when they came to plan Season 4 and decided to start edging off the books a lot more.
he had Thoros of Myr (?) who was a red priest like Melisandre who'd discovered he suddenly had magic, but didn't decide to try to rule the world.
i would have thought any self respecting BW should know what religion oyster and cockle crew are.
Or based on a sample chapter from book 6 I haven't read. In the books it's the Many Faced God.
Is the god of of death, and death is part of all religions so in the house of Black & White there are shrines to every religion (the red god, the stranger who is part of the seven, the graces that they worship in meereen, etc.).
Bar a few alterations Arya's pretty much on point.
The Faceless Men believe in the Many Faced God
The Religions of Westeros/Essos
- Olds Gods - weirtrees etc - People of the North
- Drowned God - Iron Islands
- Faith of the Seven - Rest of Westeros
- Faith of R'Hllor - Mostly in the Free Cities (Braavos, Asshai)
- Many Faced God - death cult focused primarily in Braavos
Great Stallion - Dothraki
I think some people in Dorne worship a river or some shit too
I honestly don't recall all the going out and selling the cockles and shells to the thin man or the seeing of Meryn Trant or her getting into the room with all the faces. I thought someone said at least one of those things was based on the sample chapter from Book 6 that I didn't read.
As for the gods, I always got the sense the many faced god was all gods or that the other gods were different faces of the many-faced god. I dunno if it was explicit that wasn't the case, though.
Tower of the Hand hasn't ever bothered doing to write ups for Book 5 so I can't go and check those to jog my memory and it's overdue.
Happens in ADWD, while she's being Cat of the canals, selling cockles and shells on the wharf. But she doesn't meet Meryn Trant, she meets Dareon, the deserter from the night's watch.
but in the books that was all before she got into the black and white temple, I thought, her surviving on the streets, not to do the will of the many faced god.
aren't the many faces of the many faced god related to the other gods? or the seven being others?
like Christianity has a trinity.
The Many Faced God, as moonrat said, is essentially the god of death and thus incorporates all other religions and their are shrines to lots of gods inside the House of Black and White.
which is basically death, and thus incorporates all religions. I could really get into some detail about that, but I won't.
Beric Dondarrion was resurrected by Thoros of Myr another worshipper of the Red God, who believe in a battle between darkness and light, and the resurrection of a hero called Azor A'hai who once upon a time saved the world from the eternal darkness of the Long Night (Melisandre believes Stannis is AA reborn, but there are actually several characters who could fulfil the prophecy, or the whole thing could be bollocks).
That's where I recognise Mr Iron Bank from.
That was driving me nuts.
I can't remember which one.
Hi horror docs are well worth watching too. He was in Wolf Hall as well.
he was the perfect Stephen Gardiner. Remember when Wolf Hall was on and it was possible be a self respecting book wanker.
I quite like good but boring. The series was also good but boring. I quite like good but boring.
Have they let him write some of this Season's scripts? They've been nonsensical enough...
where you can go to watch people fighting to the death in big arenas?
Although I'd imagine it's a side effect of the sport they're playing leading to a deadly accident.
Honestly, mate, what kind of fucking question is that?
Glad they let Jon Snow back in, nice bit of Dorne action.
Shireen Fawkes was an uncomfortable watch, but I like Stannis becoming increasingly unhinged. I reckon the scroll that Fingerless has got will tell the Night's Watch to hold him there - Stannis counting on him being unable to read it for himself.
I'd be happy if they just killed Arya off to be honest. It's just awful. Was that guy the one who chopped off Ned's head? If not, where's that guy?
The FX were shit, but that closing scene was still brilliant. Especially liked the Harpies clearly wearing flame-proof clothes. I do wonder how many fucking Harpies there are though? Ser Barriston and No-Willy thinned their numbers but there's now an army of them that easily overpowers all the unsullied?
I did enjoy them trying to make us happy that she forgave Ser Stoneskin. No one gives a fuck about that guy.
Looking forward to seeing which female character undergoes something horrific in the final episode.
I'm glad Bron is still alive.
I'm sad Ser Friendstone is back in it.
Gotta say that child burning was some of the most horrible TV I've ever seen. I felt sick watching it, well listening to it. Watch Dog is gonna be awash with complaints.
ser friendzone <3
10 hours after he posted it as a reply to shucks down the bottom?
at least until the final series, whenever that's gonna be (no BWs)
- Jon Snow, obvs
- Danerys mother of bore
think that's my entire list
Might never happen but I would be totally not surprised (and raging) if they did)
They've got it greenlit already.
I'd guess it might be a Sopranos style extended sixth, though.
in that case then, yeah, arya is def on the list
I reckon that would work, if WoW comes out between now and the next one.
If they're sure then that's interesting.
It feels like they've cut so much from Books 4 and 5 that they are racing to a conclusion. Hard to even speculate until we see how much of Book 6 revolves around what they've not bothered with, I suppose.
has definitely got better as it is gone on, I was ready to stop watching after the first 3 or 4 yawnfests. But, tbh, I really struggle to keep track of every single thing.
Loved all the deleted scenes from 'Attack Of The Clones' last night, culminating in some nice dragon action.
The guy who Arya stalked - buggered if I remembered who he is and why she was seemingly shocked to see him... complete mystery. Also, is that place she now dwells a kind of euthanasia clinic?
Who is Stannis leading his army against? The Lannisters? I now cannot recall anything about him except he follows some crazy religious woman's instruction.
Dany can't have much of an army left?? Those gold masked goons are apparently slaughtering them by the truckload!
Is Theon the last Greyjoy alive or are they sitting in their castle and keeping well out of everything? Can't remember if his sister bit it during that attempted prison break out either.
What happened to all those wolves?
What happened to the kid who couldn't walk - last I recall he and his gang entered some mystical snow cave?
Lol, I swear I watch it every week...
are we just supposed to assume that baelon greyjoy is dead or have they just delayed his death until they can be arsed to film it? UNANSWERABLE QUESTIONS
about half of the corresponding book to this series is about the greyjoys but they've just skipped it all so fuck knows
The guy Arya is stalking killed her sword teacher in season 1. He's on her list.
Stannis is attacking the Boltons currently in the north. So basically, we can either root for red wedding instigators/serial rapists, or the guy who burned his own daughter alive. But then I guess we have three wildcards there in the form of Sansa, Brienne and Reek/Theon. Kinda hoping its a massacre and only Sansa and Brienne survive (and possibly Davos), but it won't be.
I doubt Dany has much left. I really hope she cuts and runs from Mereen and just carries on acquiring armies/ships from somewhere until she (hopefully soon) can get to Westeros.
The Greyjoys are pretty much as they always were, just sitting on their islands trying to convince themselves they're hard or whatever. Apparently they had quite a big role in the books, but it's been cut for the show.
Re: The Wolves. Robb's direwolf was murdered at the red wedding with him. Jon Snow's is still alive up in castle black, and occasionally intimidates/kills people. Sansa's was killed in episode 2 of season 1 after the whole thing with Arya & Joffrey. Arya set hers free that same episode, so it's wondering the wild in the north somewhere. Bran still presumably has his. Did Rickon even have one? Fuck knows where he is anyway.
As for Bran, Hodor and Meera, they're not in this season, probably cos of two of reasons: 1) His storyline was caught up with the books at the end of s4. While they have added new things for other characters, I'm guessing Bran's development with the whole magic thing has the potential to spoil some major plot developments, so they're holding it off until next season when GRRM has hopefully finished/published The Winds of Winter. 2) He's basically just doing a fuckton of magic training atm, and it would be better to show him once he's got somewhere with it, otherwise it would be another case of what's made Arya so boring this season.
that clears up a few things for sure - appreciate it.
Oh yeah, Arya's sword teacher - he was whimsical and deserves to be avenged!
This was Dany's army last series:
Now it seems there's about 50 of them and they can't fight for shit.
Sons of the Harpy's who essentially seem to be angry slavers.
but having a ton of them in the stadium suddenly appear and take the unsullied in a straight fight?
also, they need to work out who's making all those goddamn masks...
'cause other people would've wanted to fit in the stadium
What bothers me about the scene is that it’s based on a character acting in a way that’s counter to how he’s been depicted all series. Stannis has been depicted as one of the greatest generals in the realm. He held the Storm’s End against a one-year siege by eating rats. So if the device that gets Stannis to the place where he’s desperate enough to burn his only daughter and heir alive (Stannis may be rigid, but he isn’t blind to politics. In burning Shireen, he may have won the battle, but he’s lost the Throne. None of the lords of Westeros would back a kinslayer and someone without any heirs) is (1) some snow and (2) a sudden and convenient ineptitude at doing war stuff, that feels off to me. Stannis, “the greatest military commander in Westeros” per Davos, is in enemy territory, on the march toward a belligerent castle, and for some reason (i.e., to make this scene happen) he doesn’t have scouts out or watchmen guarding the camp or have his army — made up largely of professional mercenaries who themselves should know better — in the state of alertness necessary in a war. Also: Ramsay is now a ninja. I don’t buy it.
maybe he bought off the guards, maybe there's some magic bullshit going on, maybe he *was* a ninja all along. "I don't buy it" doesnt really come into it when you're dealing with a fantasy show about dragons and zombies I'm afraid.
When it comes to GoT
disagree on the heir, unless there's been a discussion about how he's infertile
iirc he or his missus can't have any more kids (or it's difficult for them to conceive or something)
aside from Shireen,
but is that not more likely a fertility problem of the mother, who is beyond expendible in this?
aye, her coat's looking like it's on a shoogly peg
not that i think he'll ever be king, certainly not for long, but he can let her die and then marry someone from some house or other to solidify his support base and get an heir. sansa, why not
If he lives, Stannis 100% becomes Lord Commander of the Night's Watch
which seems to be based on the fact that his brother won some battles and married a brotherfucker, would allow him to live a life of duty and service on the wall
Book stannis is driven ultimately by duty above all else. He came very close to siding with the Mad King in Robert's Rebellion as he didn't think he could quit his duty
Show Stannis is an ambitious zealot so it would probably make zero sense
That's if he lives - GRRM ran out of space in the 5th book so it doesn't even finish on cliffhangers, it just kind of....stops
It's just pointing out that the show & the book changes aside are roughly in the same place on his story right now
could 100% diverge from book tho idk. he's so live-by-the-sword in such a death-glorifying show that he's just being set up for an extended torturous-but-stoic death
Between Davos and Brienne who kills Stannis.
I get the shole 'he can marry someone else' but the whole burning his only daughter alive because of a religious belief is too much of a 'mad king' moment for the iron throne. The boltons flay people alive and are massively hated, same thing will happen to Stannis.
But i doubt he will survive the seige of winterfell anyway
he'll pelt him to death with onions
I think a woman mounting a dragon and flying is never going to look "realistic".
And the pan around Tyrion was lovely.
the greenscreen for her flying off was subpar
I think the problem was with the tone shift. it started off with a dragon burning folk to death and taking names, then it tried to transition straight into this magical wonderment type awe of flying about. but it was jarring because you were still thinking about the people burning and the spears flying everywhere.
or maybe it just looked a bit ropey idk
GROW UP JAPES
I'm saying the dragon rampage was ruined. I was enjoying it thank you very much.
those dragon shots are always going to be limited due to the fact that you can only really have a side on/front on shot of Dany, which makes it all look a bit silly.
The Harry Potter flying scenes were better though, mainly because the focussed on the dragon rather than the riders (ryderz) and allowed a bit more 3D movement with pans and sweeps and stuff.
is that previously, the Melisandre talked of 'king's blood' and blood sacrifices - she got Gendry's blood for the vision thing, had Stannis' smoke baby - these things are blood and fluid related. Fine.
Fire is not a blood sacrifice. What can she do with a burnt body? It's just a cleansing ritual, an offering to the gods, not a functional magick tool.
The only reason I can think is that watching people burn is more horriffic to watch than slitting throats, so the producers went with that.
Still, we know her magic works, on account of the smoke baby, so we know that Shireen will most likely not have died in vain.
But on the whole Melisandre hasn't been a great deal of help for Stannis - is it fair to say her powers and visions are maybe overstated?
the smoke baby shows it works on the hole
bur let's wait and see what she pulls out the bag this time
hasn't had them out for AGES
but I guess king's blood doesn't have to be literal, it just means sacrifice.
How much is she bullshitting anyway? Obviously she has some powers, but how much is she just making it up as she goes along?
100% of the time, for sure.
Disagree about the literal thing. a blood sacrifice requires blood to be spilt.
fire plays no part in a blood ritual.
especially when it's a blood ritual to a fire god
because i think the producers just went for the gratuitous horror of burning a child, rather than more functional execution by blade, which would actually make more sense given the magic performed in the series so far.
it just irks me, and I am dubious of the motives
She does perform a blood sacrifice as you want earlier in the show. It's when they have Gendry and she uses some of his blood to prove to Stannis how killing him would do a lot more. She takes his blood and drops it in the flames. (Okay, it may be she takes Stannis's blood - I can't recall for sure.)
That results in a bit of cool shit, but this is where she makes it clear that you'd have to kill the person to get all the power, i.e. you would sacrifice all the blood *to the fire*, which is what you do when you burn someone alive.
That's why it's a blood sacrifice but the sacrifice is made to the flame.
they should have slit her throat and bled her dry halal style, and then taken the 5 pints or so and bunged them in a kiln
I'm trying to explain to GoatMeat why it's still a blood sacrifice.
but fire tends to be for cleansing rituals, burning the cognisantly impure kind of stuff. Like Melisandre makes Stannis do in one of the earlier episodes to everyone that wouldn't recognise her.
Blood sacrifice is for material gains - Gendry's blood to make the visions, and bodily fluids to make the smoke baby.
but since the shows writers and producers don't seem to realise that forcing people to have sex is rape, I don;t expect them to understand the subtleties between different forms of sacrifice.
GRRM could have a Melisandre finger a dog to appease her fire god and make a sacrifice of her shitty finger, and you wouldn't be able to question it.
I think that as shown by Thoros' powers coming alive when the dragons returned to the world that clearly there is something in the Lord of Light faith, and she does have visions but that her interpretation is completely askew - for instance there's no way Stannis is actually Azor Ahai and she still wants to awake dragons from Stone in season 3 despite Dany having already done so
do you think she believes stannis is azor ahai or is just playing him?
I think it's clear that she genuinely believes Stannis is AA.
I do however put some credence in the theory that she's really really old and she's glamouring a youthful appearance
and that's why she's ignored all the evidence that he isn't AA. She's so clear and intelligent and knowing otherwise that I can't really understand it unless that's the case.
Unless she has some completely different reason going on. Maybe there can be many pretenders to being AA and then there's a Highlander style thing where the last one standing so-proclaimed gets all the power?
but she's also shown to have a big box of literal tricks to keep up appearances as a powerful and all knowing mystical superwomen. The truth is that's there something in it, but maybe even she doesn't know how much, and yeah, her interpretation of it is flawed in very human ways.
has also foretold her own death in Season 2, when she says about seeing Arya a second time...
are there any "common" characters still in the show?
cos i dont think there are, it's all kings and their advisors who may be low born but are now rich
basically if westeros were completely taken over by the dead, im not sure anyone would care would they? cos the actual life of westeros, the people, have all just been steamrollered for the mighty heroes to do battle. loada gash
The books and the show pay zero attention to common people.
like in winterfell. still only included when they had dealings with nobles, but either my memory's clouded from it being ages ago, or there actually seemed to be some kind of life going on in the world, not just machinations
you could see some plebs getting burned by dragon fire
except to further the plots of the nobles. But in terms of the books, they are frequently mentioned in order to make the point that they are the real victims of all the war and show how the common people really couldn't give a shit who's ruling as long as they're not being treated badly.
and Danerys's woman and Grey Worm
I think this is a key flaw of the books, although it goes hand in hand with what I see as Martin's aim of critiquing the traditional feudal/monarchic power structures of traditional fantasy (and much of the real world).
Of all the regular POV characters in the books, I think only Melisandre (who it seems was at point a slave in her past life) and Davos (who is now Hand of the 'King' and Lord of the Rainwood) are not nobility. Where the smallfolk at, George?
he's hardly in the books
quite pleased with that.
actually jumped up and shouted "DROGON!"" when she closed her eyes
actually went "oh, who fucking CAAAAAARRRESSSS" when Arya is doing her shite.
something in my eye...
WHAT DID I JUST WATCH?
bit of a bloodbath. the arya scene with meryn trant was great, made me think of kill bill.
was fucking ridiculous too. proper cringey.
stannis' last words so perfect. still kind of love him tbh.
His demise was very well done.
I was not expecting the battle of Winterfell to be so obviously one sided and over so quickly. I guess thats what you get for sacrificing your own daughter in front of all of your men (to be honest, that should have been really obvious, but the lord of light tends to right about most things, so I was expecting a closer fight at least). Stannis' demise actually made me feel bad for the guy. He knew from the start of that battle that he was completely fucked, and was just so weary and resigned. This wasn't a man dying for his cause, this was a man just hoping to be put out of his misery. Glad Brienne was there to do it.
Sansa and Reek (actually, is he back to being Theon now?). Dead or no? It certainly looked like a suicide attempt to me, but then, I have a feeling Sansa still has a lot left to do as a character, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was just an incredibly unrealistic escape (like, Myranda had just died from roughly the same fall a few seconds ago). Ramsay Bolton lives to rape and torture another day.
My god that Arya scene with Trant was satisfying (does this make me a bad person? cheering on as a girl brutally and coldly murders a guy in the most painful way?). Though it raises questions for me about the way this is going. If Jaqen H'gar showed the true meaning of becoming no-one today, I don't really want Arya to become no-one. I like Arya being Arya. The fact that she said who she was with pride when killing Ser Meryn was part of what made it so satisfying.
Myrcella's death was so obviously going to happen in that exact manner. I did like how she was actually fine and happy with Jaime being her father, that was kind of sweet. And the sand snakes can seriously fuck off, that was just embarrassing.
Dany and Charizard are stuck in the Dothraki sea. It will be interesting to see whether those Dothraki treat her as friend or foe, khaleesi or slave. Meanwhile fun for all is to be had, with Jorah and Daario's buddy cop road trip, and Tyrion and Varys getting to rule a city again! This is probably the first time in the history of this show where I have been actively looking forward to the Essos plotlines over all the others.
Cersei's walk was very well done. Hard to watch, but kind of moving. Lena Headey deserves awards. And Qyburn's FrankenMountain! One step closer to Cleganebowl? (Nah, never gonna happen)
So that brings us to Jon Snow. I had heard a book spoiler that this happens, and I am intrigued as to how they're going to deal with it. The obvious one is that Melisandre will resurrect him, given she conveniently arrived at castle black just before, but Kit Harington has said he's not returning, so its a case of who knows as to whether they're pulling a red herring with that or what.
Predictions for season 6:
Sansa and Theon are alive. I personally think they'll run into Sam and Gilly on their way down to Oldtown, which'll add some new character pairings there. Or maybe thats just me hoping Sansa will finally be rid of the horrors in the north. Wishful thinking.
Stannis is dead, obvs. I don't think Brienne is that long for this world either. It feels like her character arc is kind of close to being done now, and people have been killed much, much earlier in their stories.
If Jon is resurrected, I can sort of see him leading the wildlings. If he's not, that will be more interesting. Either way, there's going to be a big battle at castle black early season 6, and I think the nights watch will fall. I'm guessing Davos will be the main POV character there? Who knows whats gonna happen to him, but given they killed off everyone else bar him and Melisandre in team Stannis, I think Davos will likely survive a while longer.
Meanwhile, Melisandre is totally gonna get offed by Arya at some point, probably near the end of the show, right? She said to her in season 3, "we'll meet again" and she looked vaguely terrified. So Davos isn't gonna succeed in killing her.
Excited as I am at the prospect of another season of Tyron and Varys' crazy adventures ruling a city, I can't help but think "Can you just hurry the fuck up and invade Westerns already?" when it comes to Dany. If there are only going to be 7 or so seasons, and 5 are done, she needs to get her act together quickly. I would not be surprised if she crossed the narrow sea at the end of s6.
As for Kings Landing, fuck knows. With the inevitable upcoming war with Dorne, Cerise's trial (obviously going to be a trial by combat with FrankenMountain fighting her corner), the fact that everyone hates the Lannisters and they're basically all fucked... Yeah. KL is going to be a bloodbath next season.
The crucial difference between the fall and the jump is that one happened inside the castle and onto stone and the other outside the castle into a snowdrift.
Sure it might be two foot of fluffy snow and then a whole load of compacted stuff but I'm betting it will be a whole load of the soft kind. People have survived falls from aircraft into snow.
which you'd likely get next to the walls of a castle, as you'll get spots where it all just gets blown in..
(She was pregnant when that scene was shot)
"CUNT!" in her face :D
bet he isn't
the only decent one now is arya and shes blind wtf
guess they'll be more hodor and the other mini starks nxt season
are they dead though
and none of them involve Jon Snow.
We shouldn't be left with cliffhangers for Sansa, Ayra, Dany and potentially Stannis. It's too much - the Jon Snow one is fine (he's alive, blatantly) but the only positive story was Tyrion, we need a bit more than that.
other than that... can't see myself watching another series tbh.
just seems to completely undermine the whole point in the thing if he's dead.
Some cunts on twitter spoilt the end so it had no effect on me at all lol
He gets stabbed up a bit, but GRRM likes to end POV chapters in a way that makes you think the character's dead but they aren't really.
he's probably alive then. Melisandre will save him i guess. That makes it a bit less shit.
This is a nice leaving point. Let's say Dani and her wounded dragon got slaughtered by the dothraki, Arya died shortly after being blinded (something something many-faced god something), Sansa and Reek died, Breanna went home, Jamie's ship sank and Tyrion and Varys had a lovely time. Littlefinger also died.
despite kit harrington's lies
stannis: 80% sure he never died
he was looking at something behind brienne, and why wouldnt they show his death? they love showing people's deaths
So can I just check the "bad pussy" line actually happened and wasn't a figment of my imagination
Seven hells Ned
But seeing her back at Castle Black has made me think that Stannis is definitely dead but don't understand why they didn't show it. Surely they could have pinched some time from Cersei's shaming scene to show Stannis get sliced up?
I know the longevity of Cersei's walk did add to portraying how awful it would have been though. Almost felt bad for her... almost.
Gut feeling is that Jon Snow will be alive next series. Melisandre will raise him from the dead. She knows he has royal blood in him so she needs him now Stannis is pan-breed.
Don't really understand why Ellaria Sand is so raging with the Lannisters? Oberyn was killed in a scrap that he volunteered to fight in. He had his arse handed to him, fair deal.
So pretty much all the characters next season except Tyrion and Varys are essentially just going to be WANDERING ABOUT. Great.
she's still mad about the same thing her and oberyn were mad about last series ("you raped her!" "you murdered her!") but added to that she had a deep and passionate love for oberyn so she's kind of gone a bit nuts. the whole thing is annoying though and she's been the worst character this season.
Was going to say that they had their chance to avenge her by killing the Mountain but they didn't succeed so... makes sense for her to continue to seek revenge.
You are right though, she has been the worst along with the Snakes.
In the books Ellaria councils reconciliation and peace giving a big speech about how the Mountain's death won't keep her warm in bed at night or wipe her tears. It's Doran's daughter Arianne who's all like "LET'S FUCK SHIT UP!" leading the Sand Snakes and has a big beef with Doran as girls inherit under Dornish law and she reckons he hates her for not being a boy. D&D decided that that wasn't interesting so completely cut her from the show and opted for bad pussy and boner poison instead
And a lot more Stannis and Jon Snow action
Presume Theon and Sansa make it.
Need more Bronn and Tyrion next season please.
with someone behind ringing a bell and calling 'Shame! Shame!'
The five kings were Joff, Robb, Renly, Stan the Man and Balon. Old craken's last one standing #whatisdeadcanneverdie
but they're all fighting for Tommen's throne so as 'wins' go it's a bit hollow.
over Stannis; it's not so much that he's died but the manner of it. They focused on him and his story so much that the audience were invested in his quest. I was expecting a good rumble with the Boltons (to last throughout maybe half the episode) - talk about underwhelming!
Someone up there mentioned Brienne becoming more redundant and possibly killed off - well let's not forget that she is still looking to rescue and protect Sansa (despite her hissy fit last night), so they must surely meet up sometime in s6? I don't think Theon and Sansa leapt to death, they would've hit a massive snow drift or something as equally convenient.
If magic is used to resurrect poor Jon Snow, it may be Melisandre or perhaps it'll be Bran...?
"Shame! Shame! Shame!"
"Are you saying 'Shame' or 'Shane'?"
"I was saying 'Shane'."
because if GRRM produces Book 6 before they start on the new Season they'll want to weave in as much as they can from that. Otherwise they'll go entirely their own way.
This is probably why we don't actually see the resolution of her 'killing blow'. Also, have they definitely been given a 7th Season? If that's still in the balance then I guess they will have different requirements.
The fact they didn't show any definitive blow definitely leaves it open to a 'yes, she killed him' or 'no, she spared him' depending on how the entire plot moves forward.
If he was spared, I wonder who he'll join up with?
which makes sense
How come Sopranos got 6 seasons but Season 6 was about 2 episodes short of being double length?
Until it's confirmed it's not confirmed.
S5 onwards there were massive contract disputes that threw the whole thing out of sync with US scheduling cycles
But contract disputes, etc. is exactly my point. If someone's definitely signed that it's seven seasons, that's cool. Right now it's six and if you were writing the show you'd definitely have your JMS B5 style 'trap doors' at the ready to let you get it done early.
if the show's popular and the show runners want to carry on making it, it carries on being made
with his pants down, yelling 'I'm a Lannister, suck me off!'
Actually wondered if that was Kevan Lannister for a second, angling for a cheeky blowie (he was sort of old after all)
Will mis Stephen Dillane, he was as wonderful as he could be as Stannis. Gutted we didn't get to hear him give any of his famous book quips.
Enjoyed his puuuuuuuuurlease reaction to Brienne, his wry smile as the Bolton's marched in (also I thought they had no men?) and his last words being standard Stannis and also an unintended burn on Brienne
Looked pretty conclusive to me
they didn't show him dying. the only reason they wouldn't show him dying is he isn't dead.
from Camp Stannis. But it wasn't mentioned at all so idk.
why did melisandre go back to the wall after ditching stannis? she's got no pals there. she's only going to revive jon.
Good pacing? Too pacing?
Then ep10 was a complete bloodbath. Really uneven pacing than made the finale feel really lumpy
ep 8 was the only one really up with the quality of the rest of the show (and among its finest episodes)
I've found proof that it definitely happened
So if you start watching one every 6 days about now you should be finished just in time for the next season.
isn't he the bastard son of somesuch and has a claim to the throne? are we supposed to have forgotten that or have i got it wrong?
you're mixing up podrick and gendry
pod = briene's pal, not in skins (as far as I know)
gendry = arya's pal, off with beric dondarrion (the guy the hound killed but didn't kill) in S3
pod = just some dickhead
gendry = bastard son of robert baratheon & true heir to the throne
where is the other one then? last i remember he was being leech sex attacked by the sexy witch.
how big was the bolton army that killed stannis? they had about 500 horses, where do they keep all them in winterfell?
they'll sink about 10 metres into it and will never be able to get out so they are definitely dead.
Jon :( <3