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That'll show them!
Just don't fall asleep during PMQ, alright?
It was a light hearted comment. THIS IS WHY YOU LOST THE ELECTION.
after every jokey post these days?
he was probably born like it
who went absolutely apeshit about Miliband's (similarly ridiculous) pledge to make Islamophobia illegal on the grounds of free speech will be reacting to this with similar vim.
but I question what will be the ultimate efficacy of it, when it seems to have the potential to harm more innocent people then it will end up saving.
Terrorism borne out of extremism is a genuine problem. But it's a complex, metastatic one. I don't see how this proposal will improve our safety from it - from my (unlearned, admittedly) perspective, our security services already do a tremendous job in securing our protection.
Remember - terrorists only need to be lucky once.
surely our laws already cover this?
I'd meant to put that crucial detail in, but CCB nailed it.
we have some alternative comedy shows coming to BBC 2 soon?
But - surely, the law should already be sufficient to deal with people who are acting in a way that might compromise national security? It's not like radical ideologies are a new thing.
Actually, you're starting to sound like some kind of extremist...
And I for one really didn't get on with 9/11 that much so wouldn't want to see it 9/11ing itself all over the place again
they've got away with it for far too long the pricks.
It would be funny if it wasn't utterly chilling.
I was having breakfast and watching Theresa on the telly this morning, and my mouth was so agog, I spilled my coffee right down my front. it's almost like a parody. I don't know why i'm so surprised, but they're not wasting any time pushing a fairly radical agenda.
I do wonder, and I will ask my pal at central office how it works, but they must obviously have had plan A (lose/ be in opposition) plan B (form govt without a majority via coalition) plan C (minority rule with informal alliances) and hahahhaha, not that this will EVER happen Plan D (majority). I would imagine an inequal amount of time will have been spent on each. At what point did the plan D dossier get taken out of the cupboard and padded out at great haste before pressing the green button on things like this. I need to know, I find it fascinating/ scary.
while the opposition parties are leaderless in the Commons, before they lose a few seats in by-elections, and before the backbenchers start infighting over Europe, and before the results of the past few years of government start to actually come to fruition.
They've got a year or two in which to push all these things through before they become a lame duck government.
For all of the focus on the Tory victory in the face of the unexpected (which it was, not denying that), this government is still pitifully weak with a slender majority. The last years of the Major administration provide chilling reading for Cameron et al. And the party is just as riven with tensions/revolt from the far right as it always was.
The `It's Just Like 1992 Again` joys will last so long before Cameron realise that, yes, it REALLY IS just like 1992 again...
Oh there's a classic `Do As I Say Don't Do As I Do` Tory fuckup waiting in the wings for this government, that's for sure.
get that all out of the way in the first couple of years, and then spend the next couple of years being all nice to people
so I doubt they're that underprepared, but there's no way there won't be backbench rebellions and trouble in the years to come, best to smash through all the really awful stuff as soon as possible.
Kind of feel like Parliament should stay in recess for a month or two after any election so everyone can calm down a bit.
Govt. Majority + 2 leaderless main opposition parties + roughly 6 months before the inevitable infighting begins and the majority becomes worthless
Marckee already said that
I think he should apologise
"...such orders would apply if ministers "reasonably believe" a group intended to incite religious or racial hatred, to threaten democracy, or if there was a pressing need to protect the public from harm..."
doesn't sound open to abuse at all that
remember when you used to tell us to vote Tory if we wanted to protect our civil liberties?
but if it is then they have a mandate to do it unfortunately.
As to your second point, no I don't.
Yeah, in big fat letters on every single page.
I'll ask them to send me the login details for all their email accounts.
including a ministerial veto on the release of documents.
or will that also be kept quiet?
a bit like those super injunctions a while back....where you are not only not allowed to talk about something, but you werent allowed to know that there was an injunction stopping you talking about it....Giggs was the frivolous example of this, which is why everyone talked about it.
just make sure you ask for something through: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/
It is not particularly difficult for them to apply the veto to information now. There has already been an amendment to the exemption in relation to royal correspondence, making it an "absolute" exemption (so not subject to a public interest test). Transparency in action right there.
I suspect they just don't like the ability of the courts to tell them they are being fucktards.
one of their key pledges at the start of the last parliament was a massive increase in government transparency. file that one alongside 'greenest government ever', worker's co-ops taking over public services etc...
is to remove the need for FOI because they will be routinely publishing so much information, that people won't need to ask for it! Thank god the government know everything that people want to know.
So presumably they'll be publishing all ministers' email and correspondence?
youtube comments spring to mind, as do the express, the mail etc
'Theresa May told BBC Radio 4 Today the government wants to "bring people together to ensure we are living together as one society".'
At least they're finally accepting that society might actually exist.
It's a bit rich that a piece of legislation like this has been dreamt up with with intention of bringing society together. This sort of thing certainly hasn't worked in France has it?
God I hate Theresa May. I know Cammy is the poster boy, but she snatches the prize of being number one cunt.
It is fucking unbelievable that they got away with all that 'civil liberties' bullshit. They are already going way more authoritarian than Blair's Labour.
Protect our freedoms
Labour’s approach to our personal privacy is the worst of all worlds – intrusive, ineffective and enormously expensive. We will scrap ID cards, the national identity register and the Contactpoint database. to protect our freedoms from state encroachment and encourage greater social responsibility, we will replace the Human Rights Act with a UK Bill of Rights.
We will review and reform libel laws to protect freedom of speech, reduce costs and discourage libel tourism.
Wherever possible, we believe that personal data should be controlled by individual citizens themselves. We will strengthen the powers of the information Commissioner to penalise any public body found guilty of mismanaging data. We will take further steps to protect people from unwarranted intrusion by the state, including:
• cutting back intrusive powers of entry into homes, which have been massively extended under Labour;
• curtailing the surveillance powers that allow some councils to use anti-terrorism laws to spy on people making trivial mistakes or minor breaches of the rules;
• requiring Privacy impact assessments of any proposal that involves data collection or sharing; and,
• ensuring proper Parliamentary scrutiny of any new powers of data-sharing.
The indefinite retention of innocent people’s Dna is unacceptable, yet Dna data provides a useful tool for solving crimes. We will legislate to make sure that our Dna database is used primarily to store information about those who are guilty of committing crimes rather than those who are innocent. We will collect the DNA of all existing prisoners, those under state supervision who have been convicted of an offence, and anyone convicted of a serious recordable offence. We pushed the government to end the permanent retention of innocent people’s Dna, and we will change the guidance to give people on the database who have been wrongly accused of a minor crime an automatic right to have their Dna withdrawn.
We believe that people working in positions of trust with children should go through a proper criminal record check. but Labour’s new system goes too far. So we will review the criminal records and ‘vetting and barring’ regime and scale it back to common sense levels.
the hunting act has proved unworkable. a Conservative government will give Parliament the opportunity to repeal the hunting act on a free vote, with a government bill in government time.
I meant your claim they are already more authoritarian than New Labour, because they've still got a lot more hideous laws they'll need to pass before they match that shitheap.
I think ID cards are actually less troublesome than this sort of vaguery, personally. The former is an odious thing, but still a defined thing at least.
Moreover, what aspects of New Labour's laws have they really taken down, aside from ID cards? Let's not forget their attempts last term to get to read all our emails or whatever it was, and their installing of rocket launchers on the roofs of buildings during the Olympics.
Here are the powers which the British Freedom Fighters and Democracy Protectors are seeking:
They would include a ban on broadcasting and a requirement to submit to the police in advance any proposed publication on the web and social media or in print. The bill will also contain plans for banning orders for extremist organisations which seek to undermine democracy or use hate speech in public places, but it will fall short of banning on the grounds of provoking hatred.
It will also contain new powers to close premises including mosques where extremists seek to influence others. The powers of the Charity Commission to root out charities that misappropriate funds towards extremism and terrorism will also be strengthened.
- did away with the concept of punishment requiring a fair trial, well any trial at all in fact, that we've had since the Magna Carta (control orders).
- wanted to be able to detail anyone without charge for 42 days.
- colluded in kidnap (extraordinary rendition) and torture (Guantanamo Bay).
- made it impossible for the public to protest outside parliament without the government's permission (Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005)
- allowed for the government to impose martial law at any time based on their own definition of an "emergency" (Civil Contingencies Act 2004)
- allowed full surveillance of all forms of communication (RIPA 2000)
That's just a handful of examples. Think there were 60-odd similar laws passed in total. Still, bloody Tories, eh?!
(If not, how can they possibly claim to be better?)
Of course, cutting at the justice system like mad may make any repeals moot.
They're adding new bullshit on top of existing bullshit.
I recognise that you probably have no more idea than I do whether they have made an effort to reverse this sort of thing and this is why I pointed out ID cards, because it's the only tangible evidence that comes to mind of them pushing what they made huge waves about in opposition.
They may well have done a lot for personal liberty but we don't hear a great deal about that, if so.
"already going way more authoritarian than Blair's Labour" that I objected to Theo, because it's demonstrably nonsense. I don't think the Tories are in any way the party of civil liberties, but they'll also have to go some to match the complete horrorshow of 2001-2010.
As the old saying goes, whoever you vote for the government always gets in. The "Labour = good, Tories = evil" nonsense is a major reason Blair/Brown were able to get away with so much odious stuff on civil liberties for so long and you were perpetuating that.
I was citing Labour as good, really.
Bunch of utter fucking useless shitstains.
Atleast there was a utilitarian flavour to their policy making. This Tory business has an uncomfortable air of right-wing handshaking to it.
They'll hold a vote on it, but it will be a free vote and there's not a pro-foxhunting majority in Parliament.
I assume they'll have the Whip out in force for all of these things.
they must whip it
and dumped a dead horse in Parliament Square? (Because it's not only the left who are sore losers)
at no longer going on hunts?
to undo anything even vaguely liberal that was done ever
imagine if the left could come together like that
I mean, isn't "liberty" mostly about letting people do what they want so long as they aren't hurting people?
that marckee needs to apologise.
Or I think it's fair to say blood sports comes under the 'as long as it's not hurting things' part of liberal.
in that humans are also animals.
you could view it as being about animals organising to have dominion over other animals......this could be natural and necessary.....but fox hunting isn't.
Also the subliminal lessons that are imparted to those involved in fox hunting, might be ones that run counter to the idea of liberalism.
hello country that voted us in, as you fairly picked us over labour, look how unlike labour we are, we're not completely against fox hunting and we want to send migrants home and restrict strikes!!!!
in opposition- as soon as they get into Government they remember that those pesky liberties they were so passionate about a few years ago make some of the things you want to do rather difficult.
May is obviously the driver- I think Cameron expected to be able to horsetrade this away pretty easily in any coalition deals. I've not seen full details of what they plan to do, but it all seems utterly pointless.
Cameron's quote is rather odd. As one of my friends said on FB last night, "How can we possibly keep on tolerating people doing things we don't deem immoral enough to be worthy of making illegal?"
you have to passively tolerate it, because it is out of your hands as to how the rulers treat you or others...... unless you are contemplating non passivity? :D
We've just had an election, and they have a majority, there really is bugger all you can do...if you believe in democracy meaning 'elections' :)