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So as to stop all the moaning.
Partly I'm frustrated but also I am quite enjoying an alternative take on the same characters.
What I don't really get is their insistence of following Brienne/Pod, Sansa/Littlefinger when these two are pretty much already at the end of their book storylines, right?
Meanwhile we've not had any Theon at all and nothing about the Iron Islanders, nor any stuff around the Citadel, which I was expecting them to begin to setup maybe with Sam's upcoming journey.
so why haven't they let other similar storylines lie fallow while they concentrate on new characters that are interesting.
The Brienne story is obviously a bit weird given the end of Book 5 and the very little we have from Book 5 imply she has to get to somewhere else completely. Maybe they're completely rewriting the plots now.
So they've just made up a whole new plot for Brienne. I wish they'd just leaver her out for now.
I mean it seems like they have but it's hard to know because presumably they know what GRRM knows happened in the background.
So I'm torn between thinking they're going to spoil that, and reckoning they're just going to lead her to the Stoneheart bit. I mean, her time in Book 4 is really lots of dead ends and rambling about. So maybe they're going to meet up with Stoneheart on the travel. They're clearly trying for a bigger ending in each episode, so Brienne's hanging would be something to use.
If I had to guess, though, I'd say we won't be seeing Lady Stoneheart at all.
They really don't like incidental characters in the show, though. Someone online suggested this would be the main thing that put them off the Book 3 epilogue use. If they bring her in for a block of episodes in a row that may sit better with their ideas? If they get rid of her they must still write around whatever GRRM had planned for that band, right?
thanks to the blanket fucking coverage.
Find it really interesting how they've changed the plotlines now (just realised I've read about all the leaked episodes, am I allowed to discuss them?)
I'd like to have the surprise.
especially as it's changing so much.
yeah, was expecting lots of vikings this season. I am disappoint.
and my memory is a bit hazy, but isn't a major change having Mance Rayder actually die? I'm sure there was some sort of magic that changed someone else into him?
Also, did Varys go with tyrion abroard in the books? I cant remember.
or the replacement. Though as it's not been foreshadowed at all I suspect that it was him.
And no, Tyrion traveled with Iilyrio and then the Griffs.
Varys is around to kill Kevan at the end of DwD.
No memory of that whatsoever.
You were probably still thinking about Jon Snow.
68 word recap please.
Varys lures him to a tower room on some pretension and then shoots him with a crossbow. He talks to him about his (Varys’) plans for the future while Kevan is slowly dying. Then a bunch of creepy little children run in (from goodness where knows) and repeatedly stab him with little knives to finish him off. Then a white raven appears, hailing the start of winter proper.
Boom, 68 words
Balonz doesn't deserve this. Mods? Delete please.
but having just read a summary where is your mention of the already dead Pycelle sitting in the corner?
Because we don't know what he did. I don't really mind this sort of change. It's very hard to just do Tyrion's bit on his own: most of it is internal moping and then we'll presumably have them meet the other Dragon and at that point we'll need someone for Tyrion to have expeditionary dialogue with, maybe?
I would imagine Varys will leave in time to do that deed, although if we're running vaguely with the book publications, he wouldn't need to be back at King's Landing. until next Season.
Yeah you can still get Varys back to KL to kill Kevan easily enough. Less of a shock than it was in the book, but doable.
Expositionary dialogue. Christ.
didn't it happen in the same way in the book? I'm expecting them to do a "ta da! it wasn't him" at some point later.
You'd be kicking up a hell of a fuss if you were the wrong person being burnt to death,
The looks across to the ginger guy (always get mixed up...rattleshirt?) means he knew what was going on and was prepared to be BURNT ALIVE
Aren't at the end of their line though - they've still got to meet Lady StoneHands. Obviously they're going to cut that whole pointless wandering that Brienne does.
I'm wondering if they write the Iron Islanders out completely. Which would be a shame, I think. But there's no sign of them...plus they've written out Quentyn, Aegon and Arianne. So maybe there's a radical simplification going on, here. I'd expect Sam to reach the citadel by the end of this season, and probably Jon to catch up to the books as well.
iron islanders are the best ones
They are at the end of their line really in terms of the pointless wandering. Now they have a definite person to track, which is different. But still, in terms of screen time, there isn't really a lot left and yet they've been prominently in two episodes while no sign of the Iron Islanders at all and one tiny Dorne scene...
I agree with you re Stoneheart. Hard to see how they'll bring her in.
Dorne won't take as much time as in the books, I think. No Arianne, so no plot to put Myrcella on the throne (unless one of the Sand Snakes does it?). I don't know, I'm completely confused about what will happen.
I thought all of the Dorne stuff was pretty much self-contained in Book 4, as in essentially all the characters involved we met in that book, so the entire plot could play out in this Season? It also sets up the other bloke who goes and gets burned to a crisp, right (next season maybe)?
He doesn't appear until A Dance with Dragons so if he is going to show up it will be here. He is mentioned in AFFC.
(This I got from a quick check on Tower of the Hand.)
as they've avoided several possible opportunities to explain the matriachal Dornish customs. Seems they're not bothering with the suggestion that she should come before Tommen.
to avoid foreshadowing. They're not running it like The Wire so they're keen to try to keep as much stuff current as possible.
So I don't think we can rule out that aspect of Dorne until maybe next episode where I'd assume there's going to be a lot more dialogue with Doctor Bashir.
Just as possible you're right, though.
I hope the TV series will at some point at least pay lip service to Aegon, because if they don't and it basically shows Aegon is totally irrelevant to the plot it will be a shame.
I know a lot of book readers hate Aegon and feel it's "bad writing" that GRRM introduces him so late and that it's an obvious red herring, but I think Aegon is GRRM's masterstoke. Fake or not, Aegon is the perfect representation of the inherent failures of dynastic rule, subverting literally years of belief of who the "real" King/Queen should be through nothing more than an accident of his birth. He illustrates better than anything else in the books the broken nature of monarchy, which is of course GRRM's overall theme.
Without him they're clearly going for a crazy plot development.
In the books, it seems like Aegon and Arianne are on course to meet (and marry?) so potentially there's some sort of Dorne/Targ uprising from the South to come, though how that's meant to tie in to Doran's plans for Quentyne and Dany to hook up and come back with the dragons, I don't know.
so many the whole Arianne/Aegon is on a total hiding to nothing in the books, so it can be safely left out without impacting the overall ending (which presumably involved Dany arriving back in Westeros).
so there is still scope for them to appear in this Season and the next, given there is probably enough material for two Seasons in both those books. With some padding, which may or may not be really irritating.
Unless I'm missing something?
more than expanding, so I wouldn't expect lots of new elements to be thrown in so late.
then they'll be set to wrap up mid-Season 6, which I can't imagine HBO are wanting.
Arianne: she's Doran's daughter and heir to the throne of Dorne. You can't really bring her in later - and she's not cast in this season. Same with Quentyn, as he's the middle brother in the family. I suppose you could make him a cousin or something?
Aegon you could bring in, although the most interesting thing about his arc was seeing him from Tyrion's POV, IMHO.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
Arianne can be replaced by another character, I suppose. I mean in the sense of marriages being discussed.
Still, Aegon and Quentyn are both DWD characters so that doesn't mean they've removed them for sure as yet, although it does sound less likely. :(
Aegon's a maybe. If I remember right, the show calls Trystan the heir, so it would surprise me if Quentyn turned up as his older brother (but not impossible I guess).
Seminal, respected fantasy epic or more akin to, I dunno, Star Trek?
I mean not by anyone who holds up The Wire or The Sopranos as great TV.
I think it'll always be seen as slightly hokey entertainment. It's not really family-friendly enough to sit alongside much loved silliness like Star Trek.
is going to be really boring isn't it?
For this season is that they might kill off Jaime while trying to save Myrcella from the Dornish. They seem to be trying to streamline the plot and his storyline in the books seems to be leading towards some sort of 'white knight' act of redemption.
I don't think we'll see Stoneheart.
My other theory is in the show maybe Doran Martell will be the one to introduce us to Aegon. Maybe Trystane is actually Aegon in the show? I think the way he is introduced in the books would not work for TV - like the introduction of Barristan to Dany in the books, it's a shock that only works on the page. But the Dornish have been the ones to give us all the back story about Elia and her children and would be simpler for Doran to have been hiding Aegon in plain sight all this time, and a good reason why he would have stayed away from King's Landing. Myrcella could even then take the place of Arianne.
Doran introducing us to Aegon would work, especially with the Elia back story.
I was wondering if Jaime would be the Kingsguard who breaks his vows by having sex with Arianne (only obviously not her, but someone) instead of Arys Oakheart, as in the books. Him getting killed might work (and it would remove the need for Stoneheart to send Brienne to kill him...)
but I have to go through life pretending I don't want to get back into Warhammer?
What a world
they should do that.
Did enjoy the end of Janos Slynt.
and I guess they really are pretty much stopping all new characters apart from Dorne stuff. And even that I presume is simply to resolve the audience wondering about Princess Myrcella?
Tommen's suddenly way older, isn't he? Maybe I'm forgetting him from last season. I realise all the kids are older in the show, just...
What happened with Yara in the show, then? Did we last see her after her failed attempt to rescue Theon? Guess they are just letting the Iron Islanders be vague Viking raiders.
Not sure about replacing fake Sansa with real Sansa. What's odd now is the suggestion that they would start to 'spoil' the books, but they're going so off-piste that it's hard to know if they'll be able to do much more than spoil an aspect of the resolution.
My main fear is that I'll learn of Jon's fate on screen before I read it in Book 6. I'd much rather know what happens in writing there. The rest is sort of by the by.
Next season could be the last at this rate.
I thought show-Tommen was meant to be 16, but I saw an interview where he talks about the sex scene, and says he's meant to be 12 (!)
I do wonder how many seasons there will be. They only have six booked, so maybe the showrunners are trying to move things along, in case the 7th doesn't get approved. And then hopefully if it did they'd have a plan B to throw in some more material.
Jon's dead. Obviously. ;-)
but will be brought back to life in some way (maybe inhabiting Ghost). Basically, he can only be released from his oath by death...
Anyway, if they've only got 6 seasons then that's probably it. I was also thinking that the decision on how to adapt is probably affected by the budget too. If they brought in all the secondary characters they needed to for this season and the locations, the cost balloons.
and now everyone calls him 'dog snow'
Yeah I like the Jon/Ghost theory. He could also still be alive, given the number of times GRRM has written death scenes that turned out not to be death scenes (Jon's is quite similar to Brienne's for example).
Re the seasons: apparently it's standard that they only get renewed one season at a time, and it was actually quite unusual that the network renewed 5 and 6 at the same time. Usually they renew a few days after the season premiere, apparently.
Probably they agreed to finish it in those two seasons.
Also, HBO extended the Sopranos Season 6 so I guess they may have that option here to allow them a bit more leeway with their timescales and stuff.
(Not naming just in case someone sees this in the next few minutes while still watching.) (But really, why do that. Turn away now.)
Well, of course he can, and he probably is. But it'll mean some pretty big changes to the end of DWD and the start of WOW (as two of the so-far released chapters are his). I suppose his big end of DWD storyline was always going to be different without Quentyn.
It had already been said that someone would did this series who's still alive in the books - I wonder if this means it won't be Jaime, as a lot suggested - or if there's another to come.
Gah, why him? :(
*pours out a drink for the fallen [xxxx]*
How could they kill him off? I suppose now his end of DwD storyline will go to Jorah instead. Ugh. Though I suppose it's to be expected as his character was never really treated well by the showrunners.
But interestingly, my (non-book wanker) gf was like "who was he again" + was much more gutted about the uncertainty of whether Grey Worm is alive or dead.
I don't think they handled him very well in the show tbh.
There's a whole raft of characters the show runners seem to hate so short change them on screen, then wrap their best bits into other peoples stories even though that makes ZERO sense
Killing Barristan, ach, just go and fuck yourselves mate
See also changing Littlefinger's plan to leaving Sansa at the Bolton's mercy. For plot simplicity I understand why they've done it, but it removes Sansa's achievement of agency in one fell swoop and it makes Littlefinger look like an absolute fucking idiot
They totally fucked up the great "the north remembers" and "Edd, fetch me a block" bits too
At least they're finally accepting Stannis is an important character and having to humanise him slightly, though keep leaving out all his great lines
No really bothered about Barristan being killed. I can understand why they did that as it ups the stakes for Dany considerably. Putting her in a corner like that might help non-book wankers to understand why she'd marry Hizdahr. And maybe why she'd forgive Jorah/bring Tyrion into her inner circle (assuming this happens), because she's lost her Westerosi advisors and has nobody else to turn to.
BUT Littlefinger leaving Sansa with the Boltons makes no sense. Why would you leave Robin Arryn with his bannermen and Sansa in the hands of your frenemy? I suppose he's just a different character in the show, who is more interest in 'chaos is a ladder' than in machiavellian scheming / only Cat motivation. I always thought of him being kinda like Steerpike from Gormenghast, but in the show he's just terribly inconsistent.
I will also be devastated if they make Sansa go through what Ramsey does to Jeyne Poole. I think it would be pretty gratuitous to make her the victim of another psychopath. Even if they hadn't swapped Fake Arya for Sansa, I'm still not sure we need to see that storyline play out on screen. When I re-read the books I skipped over that bit because I didn't want to hear about a young being made to copulate with a dog :(. It would be horrible and in no way satisfying. Hoping that Sansa is instead going to shit up the Boltons in some way?
I'm also not a fan of the revised version of the Sand Snakes / Ellaria.
because they seem to be going with a completely different idea here. No doubt even that is too far in shock tactics for the TV show. We can hope. In which case, maybe Littlefinger's comments about Ramsey are actually the truth, about how he feels around Sansa. When they did that whole bit at the end of last season where Sansa dresses in black and takes command, possibly this is some different shortcut.
As for Barristan, I am not really surprised. They kept Mormont around for a lot longer, didn't they? It felt like it. He's clearly a massively popular character and I'd imagine for a show-watcher his dismissal seemed kind of unfair. So presumably he's replacing Ser Barristan in future. We can see they're simplifying the story a lot.
Mainly it worries me that so many things we're seeing might flag up resolutions of future book plots. The simpler they go, the more chance I worry that we are seeing the ending of the book because we've lost so many apparently important characters.
"Hey, we both know each other but I'm going to spend a couple of minutes recounting a story that you no doubt already know for exposition" trope atm.
TWO!! stories about Rhaegar!
There was also an aside about how Ned Stark having a bastard by a tavern wench wasn't his usual style.
So when it drops everyone would be like "who?"
But they could have been a bit more subtle than to go from nothing at all to three references in one episode.
Not that the showrunners ever go for the subtle option. See also the really stupid extra lines they gave to Janos Slynt before his execution.
episode 3 "this is moat cailin, we're going north"
Yeah, did you not notice that one your massive journey north
That they got from Moat Cailin to Winterfell so quickly - it's a journey of weeks, surely?
And LF somehow got a message from Cercei? Seemed a bit unlikely that she'd know he was there (he could be lying of course).
"this arrived with a rider from the Eyrie lol"?
Same problem as the rapid journey from Moat Cailin to Winterfell though; the Eyrie is hundreds of miles away.
At first I thought it was just a precursor, but I suppose it'll mean Cersei doesn't set her up - as the Kettleblacks have never been introduced, it would take a while anyway.
I assume Cersei's arrest will still happen the same way though. Although - Cersei hasn't falsely accused Loras of anything - if she doesn't have Margaery set up, it'll be another example of the softening of her character. I don't want to be made to feel sorry for her, dammit, I want to hate her!
But as in the show Tommen is older that isn't an issue that works
Also the devout humble followers of the seven just looking for peace turned to shanking gays like it ain't no thing in the flash of an eye!
That she's not a virgin? In the after-sex scene with Tommen? Either way, presumably Cercei could find a few people willing to swear that they'd shagged her, it wouldn't be hard to set that up in an episode or so.
I don't like the Sparrows/Faith Militant either - meant to be a defence against the wicked who persecute the faithful, not a bunch of gaybashers.
They probably need to write him out somehow. Maybe they will horribly wound him or something?
its gone so far off. People keep saying "the shows its own cannon now" as if that's a justification. You can't start of as an adaptation of a story then completely change everything half way through, surely that completely defeats the point?
I cant understand how they make some of the decisions with things they leave out, for instance giving endless screen time to Brienne and Pod and leaving out really key parts.
The Iron Islanders were fucking boring so that can go but one of my favorite characters from ADWD was Wyman Manderley, got the impression he has a massive part to play in a northern rebellion, not to mention feeding the frays to the Boltons at the feast. Worst of all though, passing on his 'the north remembers line' as a passing comment from a old lady - wtf!
Probably will watch it tho.
first line / last line
is Mormont now replacing t'other fella who's looking after prince wassit who's no longer in the show?
I said this on Twitter, but I don't really understand why they spent so much time trying to make the last Season finish close to the end of Book 3: they removed Lady Stoneheart, the ultimate pay off for the darkness of Season 3, and now they're clearly just going for a story they've written themselves. If they were waiting for GRRM to bring out book 6 then that also makes little sense, given they've cut so many of the important characters from Books 4 and 5.
Ah well, it's all a little baffling.
I'm also getting concerned that we're going to find out what happened to Stannis's army since he's rapidly approaching the end of Book 5.
And the event tagline is "For the night is young and full of Tennents"
My mate's local library screens two episodes at a time from boxsets as part of a catch up night they run so that people who can't afford sky, etc. don't lost track of popular culture programmes.
Don't even know where to start with that shit how they served up last night. If not for Lady Olenna it would've been a fat 0/10
wish that prick would hurry up and finish the rest of these fucking books
I'm hopeful, but not at all expectant.
he said he wants to publish book 6 before the 6th series iirc.
but then GRR says a lot of things.
he'll definitely kick the bucket before the last book, the swine.
enjoyed that last GoT episode so much I really want to finish the books :(
might re-read them all
I'm about 20% into book 1 so just checking in.
what's left to happen?
Cersei and the Zombie Mountain?
Kevan getting offed by Varys?
Jon getting stabbed to death by his own side?
Not sure about the Winterfell stuff. I guess the burning of Shireen isn't going to be about food but about trying to get their own group of murderers in there like in the book? Not sure how Brienne will fit into this. Maybe naked in a cage with only the skin of Pod to keep her warm?
Also, Davos on his way back to the wall. I have a hope that Jon isn't dead in the books but I can't see them letting him die in the show so maybe Davos is going to be part of a rescue in Season 6.
Wonder if someone (Mormont?) will attempt to release Dany's dragons and suffer Quentyn's fate?
obviously killing jon is the major thing still to come. blates going to end on an ambiguous cliffhanger same as the books .
Unless we just have Dany landing and being surrounded by Dothraki?
guess they're just going to leave cersei in jail
I assumed the walk of shame would be next episode.
and also to provide the audience who have no idea who the hell Kevan is (he must have been in all of 3 episodes) some time with him to give his sudden death just a little resonance.
It's not a huge plot point, it was mainly shocking in the book because it brought Varys back and showed him acting against the Lannisters, but he's obviously been in this season, and been working for Dany, so maybe no need for it.
Cersei does the walk
Dany meets the Dothraki
NO idea what happens in Winterfell or Meereen
Jon gets shanked in the last scene, close-up on his face as his eyes...slowly....close....fade to black - is he dead or not???!!111!??
when there's no Aegon for him to introduce.
They only need to be COOL or EDGY
They've been setting up Deus Ex Olly all season to set up the Jon Snow stabbing
I just meant that I don't think he will be dead come S6.
Whereas I don't fully expect to find him alive and well in Winds of Winter.
But he lies about loads of shit, so who knows. As far as I remember, her and her mum were left at the wall when Stannis went south, so don't see how he could, unless Mel just does it?
and you just came right here and posted it but claim GRRM talks loads of shit. HMMMMMM....
Basically, it's better to know nothing.
I mean you're not at the stage where TV events could precede the things in the books, so I don't know where you draw the lines at spoilers/predictions/informed guesses etc. The D&D "GRRM told us" things was pretty unavoidable in reading around this episode, so I thought it was fair game to mention. I don't want to spoil anything in the WoW, but it's going to get out of my hands... I do believe that GRRM likes misinformation, but, yeah, I'd like to be surprised by the book too.
I just felt like this was a book readers' thread and so shouldn't really be concerned with whether or not GRRM implies that Shireen gets killed, which then leads you to more informed speculation around things, as well as making stuff about her in the books tinged with you waiting for the end.
FUCKING CONFIRMED. GET HYPE
cleganebowl's not the same if brienne has already beaten the hound.
she should fight zombie mountain
I'm about 30% in now. It's quite similar to the TV series. They call the White Walkers "the Others".
Also everyone is a lot younger.
It's only really in Season 3 they start taking wild liberties. Before that most changes are fairly benign.
when are we getting some ironborn? they're the best ones.
They really must have had a different notion back in Season 3 and 4 about what they'd do here.
reckon they'll be a big part of S6.
that Euron will appear.
I just wouldn't be surprised if they're essentially treated like most of the Dorne stuff from Book 4.
what was the last we saw of asha in the tv show?
she went to see theon when he took winterfell, then she just fucked off home? I can't really remember
She gave up on him after he helped to foil his own rescue.
just looked it up.
she went to rescue theon against balon's orders, but he refused to go then ramsay came in with his shirt off and they had a scrap and she ran away.
They've scoped a location that looks like Oldtown + are casting a Randyll Tarly lookalike so we might get Sam's storyline/Ironborne attacking a la the books/ a meeting twixt Sam and his dad.
was looking forward to jon's death scene to see how dead he looks.
looks fairly dead.
that witch will bring him back, like that geezer who fought the hound with the fire sword.
was thinking if the young lad at the end slits his throat that might be it, but no, just a stabbin'. you can come back from a stabbin'.
(there's no way stannis is dead either)
To be honest I'm not sure I believe it: Snow is such a key to the whole story, his death would be a massive blunder
Though I'm struggling to see how they could keep his return a secret for a year
for a bit. Harrington could have already filmed limited stuff for his appearance next year.
I don't believe for a second Jon Snow is no longer a key part of the books and will be there in some form at the endgame.
And I also agree that he is so vital to the story (especially in the books) that his "death" would make no sense at all
AND die outside the walls of winterfell.
Me thinks D&D were telling porkies
Kinda wish they'd just killed Stannis after the blackwater, rather than have 3 seasons of him basically delivering Mel to the wall to resurrect Jon (my own personal speculation)
I think he must be, although we didn't see it on screen
I'm guessing that the burning of Shireen in WoW will be done solely by Mel? Have D&D confirmed that Stannis is involved in the next book?
We don't know anything at all, right? (Not to say that isn't what's going to happen, although that Buzzfeed article's take is kind of interesting.)
She never set off on the march to Winterfell
Which buzzfeed piece?
She stayed? Christ. Sorry, only about 40% through book 1 on my re-read. I'd thought she did go with him again. Fair enough if she's still there.
I always presumed Jon would warg into Ghost somehow. He can warg too, right? Have I completely made that up?
Although it is linked in the start of that one.
But it's not as clear cut or obvious as it is with Bran
Plus in the TV show, I don't think there has been any suggestion of Warging by Snow?
so they'd have to make their own method of keeping him alive. Just wondering.
nah, stannis is alive. don't think they've ever killed someone off without showing it on screen. (that I can remember)
except they showed ned getting his head cut off. so...
But I just don't see how it will line up
My hot take - Mel sees the pink letter and burns Shireen but inadvertently brings Jon back to life. Probably why they made Stannis do it, can't have Saint Snow getting his hands dirty in the tv show
Lots of people said they didn't think Brienne killed Stannis, but I saw nothing to suggest that. Other than his last words obviously psyched her out about her being the worst bodyguard of all time
wasn't it possible that Brienne was now Stannis' Kingsguard now? Y'know, despite it all and that?
Anyway I am certain he's dead too. Just was an interesting thought I saw somewhere.
Her book arc is completely different to the show's so until we have Winds of Winter in our hands I'm not sure we can really guess how much what we saw could be a significant spoiler of any sort.
and thus you could say that part of that vow would mean she couldn't harm Stannis since he was of the same royal blood as Renly... but considering she was filling to fight in battle for Renly against Stannis, and the fact she rightly believes Stannis to be a kinslaying chode, it's hard to say how closely she would follow that vow. Though she does love a good vow, it's true.
at the chance to at least get one of them completed (having failed Lady Stark and Sansa (so far). But yeah, I think it's maybe been deliberately left open.
As Renly had planned to kill Stannis too, would you have the same level of distaste for Renly had the roles been reversed
I don't blame them personally, they're just functions in GRRM's magnum opus on the failings of traditional power structures.
though less interesting, despite the drama of his hidden sexuality. I do like Renly in the sense that he understands the only true weight behind a claim to the throne is the weight of military power, which I think makes him interesting in a sense of political pragmatism, almost in a Baelish/Varys way.
She just hangs around while they have a massive fight then tries to leave and it's a bit 'hmm'.
When they try to rescue Jeyne Poole in the books I remember it being really tense and excellent and was hoping they'd be able to bring some of that to the show.
And every scene was a climax, meant the pacing was all up and down
The Jon bit was good, but it was *devastating* in the books as they'd had the time to properly build it, Bowen Marsh weeping while he stabs Jon etc
Also, I recall just not expecting it to go down that way. I was expecting some kind of impass or something but not cold hard death. This was also because I'd forgotten the end of the book was all Appendices so I didn't realise I was right in the final chapters...
Davos ends up going looking for Rickon, GNC removes the Boltons
i mean, Myranda has just died falling from the same/a lesser height, so it stands to reason she'd be crippled like Bran, or dead. But... the snow man. Who knows.
they'll land softly
how does he fit into the whole "smoke and salt" part of thing? I know lots of things sync up, but I don't see where the salt comes in.
Hmm. Still hoping for badass Victarion tbh.
£20 on that surely?
The page seems to have gone now though
i've skipped reading the books, but started last night, but of course know loads about the series having read a lot online. i have a question.
this has spoilers right up to the very end of the most recent book and tv episode...
so, there's a lot of evidence for the stark children being skinchangers, all of them, in various guises. say jon did warg into ghost at the end... could he then warg back into his body if it becomes a wight? are there rules for this?
In the books, Jon doesn't specifically warg with Ghost as Bran does, but both Jon and Arya have dreams where they are clearly inside the heads of Ghost/Nymeria, though they don't really understand the connection. If Jon does warg to Ghost, it will be as much of a surprise to him as anyone. No idea of if he could go back to Wight-Jon. We'll see.
A minor character who narrates a prologue shows you can leave a dying body to your connected animal though. Worth noting that every time you do warg you seem to lose a bit of your humanity in classic "WHERE DOES THE MAN END AND THE BEAST BEGIN?" fashion.
And a 10 on the 20th.
it's kind of hinted at, his last words before he dies are "ghost"
it's more the "his body lives, can he return to it" that i'm wondering
they don't really clarify what the rules are to these things, plus GRR can always add exceptions whenever he feels like it so fuck knows.
this whole thing reads like the literary version of Calvinball.
pretty much. I've never felt short changed though so idk.
which is impressive. Probably because it's tempered by the extreme mortality of so many characters.
im not going to read this thread, but can someone tell me, perhaps via DM, whether there are actually many spoilers for the show that BWs know?
there aren't any more spoilers.
apart from bits with the iron islanders, but there's nothing really to spoil? and dunno if they'll even be in the tv show.
that won't be known by TV purists.