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Only 4 mins in and already it's clear there's no intention to answer a single Question posed
I'll get the lads in come on lets get smashed
And Cameron has basically said we are not going to honour anything the EU stands for.
Grim as fuck for someone like me who is a direct benefactor of that arrangement in another EU country.
would have quite liked to watch this.
still at work though (with absolutely shite internet)
He doesn't let his personal Toryness hold him back.
This is like Howard Webb refeering a Utd game fuck off
It's fine he's already commented and said don't be ridiculous and said boris can be a little silly or something like that
Just like he has with dozens of Tories in the past. No complaints here.
90s double act for a second
can't get over this
'More politness at PMs questions'
Fuck off, that's the equivalent of 'I work too hard' in answer to weaknesses at a job interview.
What do you expect him to say "actually on reflection austerity was a big mistake"
Not going to call Ed 'Leader of the Opposition' are you? Dickhead.
"So, if you're a socialist, does that mean you're against wealth creation?"
not sure why?
but is Burley being harder with Milliband than she was with Cameron? I get the impression she's asking tougher questions *and* following up when she was doing neither for Cameron.
Courtesy If anything.
Not yet...pax and ed to come
what was that shredded wheat thing about?
(in his own words) "Terms are like Shredded Wheat - two are wonderful but three might just be too many"
I think it's free when you download the.sky app
Better to squirm with Paxo then follow up with schmoozing the audience than the other way round.
but i can hear my shithead Tory-rimming smarmy little brother guffawing at Paxo in his room and know he's Snapchatting people pictures of Dave with the caption "the man who saved our economy", so it's just going to make me vomit.
Ed switching to hard mode on the Putin question. Painful to watch.
Hate this "You know what everyone says about? You do, don't you? What they all say? Don't you?" line of questioning. If you want to call him a twat, go for it, don't dodge round it with endless nudge nudge wink wink bollocks.
which given expectations is a decent result for Labour.
Particularly in this instant-reaction social media age.
To me it seemed that Paxo was slightly more on it with Cameron than he was with Miliband. I think Miliband's style of answering Paxman's questions seemed to get to Paxo a little bit. Paxman was clearly flustered at the end and Miliband as a result did far better in the interview segment than many thought he would.
Miliband did still give some vague answers though particularly on the mansion tax and what departments would receive cuts under a future Lab government.
Cameron was surprisingly weak in the interview segment. He seemed a little bit undercooked when it came to remembering figures and such and he could have given more cohesive answers on spending plans for the next government.
Loads of people criticising Kay Burley but I think you have to remember she's feeding off audience reaction in the "town hall" segment. If it was more genuinely negative towards Ed than she's just reflecting that in her follow up points. She was more critical of Ed than Cameron but if she's just trying to convey audience sentiment to a wider TV audience back home than she's entitled to do that, within reason.
I think Ed won this rather peculiarly formatted debate slightly, but probably not to significantly shift polls or anything like that.
P.S. The Lib Dems Twitter feed was an embarrassing "plague on both your houses" joke throughout the debate, lots of silly charts and see through figures.
We can ditch any coalition talk and have a penalty shoot-out instead to decide the winner.
Ed M & Ed B vs Dave & George.
Except the tories would probably be riding horses
but it seems like:
Out of the Bin: Miliband.
In the bin: Paxman.
In the bin and set on fire: Burley & Cameron
The point where he could have just said "Are you asking who'd win in a fight between me and Vladimir Putin?" and made Paxo look fucking ridiculous, and instead he said "Am I tough?!" and ripped off his shirt and screamed "HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL YEAH! AWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" etc
"Feel that," and then just sat back in his seat with a little nod.
"Dunno. Who'd win in a fight between you and Eamonn Holmes?"
Sounds different or something
for our benevolent antipodean overlord
To Dave - `have you ever eaten 3 shredded wheat?`
To Ed - `you tore your family apart and destroyed your poor Mum WHY`
Some cynical guardian sub having a bit of fun? Who could possibly be cynical about these wonderful interviews?!
Paxman's questioning, looked at objectively, was pretty terrible. It was an exercise in grilling politicians to make them deliberately uncomfortable than grilling politicians to extract anything meaningful. But it was enjoyable all the same watching Dave absolutely cack it under the pressure. He was nervy and his trademark bad temper was never too far away from spilling out. Great stuff. Miliband dealt with it much better and even drew applause from the crowd when biting back. Lovely.
Overall... a lot of vague warbling from both leaders. We learnt nothing. But good telly and good to see Miliband performing well in context. The worry is that public perception is already too deeply set to have much of a difference but for Cameron (in that snap poll mentioned above) to only be 54% vs 46% `ahead` against a leader who is supposedly useless is a worry for him. His personality/leadership advantage is the only thing keeping the Tories in the lead.
Cameron never came *that* close to snapping, and by the end of the interview was pretty comfortably hammering out his 'core message' or whatever.
The Miliband interview was much more up and down - there were points where Paxo was really flailing, but by the end the whole audience seemed to be laughing, not just at the spectacle but at Ed particularly.
Also, Miliband does a really bad thing where he falls back on his pre-planned phrases or jokes twice in quick succession.
"Oh shit, that's 5 times in 3 minutes, I really need to stop saying bacon sandwich now!"
I think it's pretty impossible to analyse performance in this kind of thing completely removed from your own pre-established personal opinions/prejudices. If you're willing someone on to do well, and you like them then... the likelihood is they'll have done well in your eyes.
Key thing is whether or not EdM has done well enough to change perceptions of people who DIDN'T like him to begin with. Probably has tbh but it might not be enough.
And on balance probably did better with people who think he's a weirdo than Cameron did with people who think he's a posh git.
with his `Sun holding` grin... I feared the worst.
Paxman asked Cameron about Stephen Green, Andy Coulson and Jeremy Clarkson, and Cameron said okay, I'll deal with them one by one, and gave an answer about Green and Clarkson, and just ignored the Coulson thing entirely!
And Paxman just let it slide. Infuriating.
that Paxman's interviewing aim was to actually explore contentious issues that cut to the very heart of Government.
which I'd assumed was the point of the whole exercise.
Maybe he felt a bit sorry for him at that point.
"I used to be poor but now I'm rich, why should I pay taxes?"
where Ed mentioned Cameron and Burley shouted him down: "YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO MENTION HIM!"
Tell us why you should be in government without saying anything about the current government please!!
when he had to say what he liked about Cameron and chose the two things the Tory base hate Cameron for the most. So sly.
(*although I guess Ed had seen it asked and knew it was coming.)
that snare hit at the end particularly.
Regularly cropped so that Burley or Miliband was just standing under the shadow of an enormouse Milinose with nothing else on screen.
of a Bottom sketch
Ed gets 7/10, while Dave gets 4/10.
Oh you are cunning, Nigel.
one bit being
paxcunt: "they see you as a north london geek"
ed: "who cares?"
surprised nobody in this thread has commented on this being pretty, pretty close to blatant antisemitism
why is north London geek anti semitic?
`North London Geek` = metropolitan liberal/political elite type who stereotypically lives in North London (Islington perhaps). Like Tony Blair!
I've never known it to have a Jewish slant myself - any examples?
Miliband gets called a geek/wonk/nerd because he's a bit of a political technocrat who struggles to communicate in simple English. A la Blair/Cameron.
Is `geek` specifically a Jewish slant then? If so, I genuinely didn't realise.
I meant to say UNLIKE Blair/Cameron. Sorry. Friday fingers.
Not something that occurred to me as being applied to Milliband, but it's possible I guess.
(I think it has been applied to Miliband)
Not on it's own, but if you see it (in conjunction with the 'weird' thing) as a synonym for not-normal or 'other' then the North London thing becomes a bit more *drum roll*
Don't think that's an example of `blatant` anti-Semitism though.
A quick Google search indicates no Jewish Commentariat having any visible issue with it post-debate but could be wrong. Would've thought someone pro-Ed and Jewish like Jonathan Freedland would've noted it at least.
because Miliband 'lost', and also because, for whatever reason, Miliband doesn't really identify himself as Jewish.
I wouldn't be surprised if it crops up again though.
"Listening to some of the comments on Radio Five afterwards one woman who said she was in the audience remarked how Ed Miliband "Didn't look comfortable in his own skin" I found this remark to be Anti-Semitic and we must press those in the media to jump on anyone who tries to make coded anti-Semitic remarks about Ed's physical appearance. This has to be nipped in the bud before it becomes a theme used by Labour's enemies because its clear that these people can't argue on policy and are going after Ed personally. These remarks about Ed's physiology are coded anti-Semitism. Let's stop these attacks now! I thought Ed won that debate btw!"
references to it (JC, Jewish News etc.) and he hasn't found anything yet picking it up.
as opposed to the odd mention it's getting at the moment though. We'll see.
It's cos he's a shape-shifting lizard like all the political elite.
North London = liberal political establishment
Geek = suffixed to political-from-birth folk like Miliband who have additional affectation of technocratic policy wonk-ness
(still don't know what the geek bit has to do with it)
I get the point with Marckee's example though.
Do people think liberal/intellectual/North London elite = Jewish in this country? It wouldn't be my connection but maybe people who think the BBC is run by 'Jews and queers' (thanks Keith Chegwin!) do?
Especially the geek bit - the origin of the word (a central European term used to describe people who were 'other' or 'freaks' allied with circuses) belies its frequent use as an anti-semitic shorthand.
as opposed to south london?
nothing whatsoever, unless you consider that he's jewish and that north london contains golders green and stamford hill
and how does north london relate to "geek"? sure, shoreditch has tech start ups and stuff, but that's nothing to do with him. and there's the woody allen-y stereotype of jewish men being geeky
of course, it could /plausibly/ mean "labour ex SPAD", but there's much better ways of saying that
is more liberal upper middle class lefty guardian reading types than specifically Jewish (although you could say there's that subtext too as shown in Marckee's link)
`well heeled political (esp. liberal) class` significantly before it means `Jewishness` in this instance.
Geek means Ed Miliband is a political geek. Like... y'know, William Hague was/is.
That was my take out anyway. `Blatant` anti-Semitism?? I don't think so. Just asked my Jewish colleague too and he doesn't think it too, even with this explanation fwiw (case study of one, sure)
now fuck off
there's also the legacy of the Hampstead Garden Suburb - which despite it now becoming a non-dom haven, shared strong roots with the Jewish Utopian intellectuals that have formed the cultural perception of the area to this day.
It seems to me Paxman's use of the term appears more loaded along political as opposed to religious lines but... Perhaps it's a categorisation best avoided with all of the additional historical connotations identified here (which doesn't resonate as clearly with me as it does with others, I suppose).
Islington Blairites in terms of character as well as policies, I think you could put it down to a political (and geographical) lumping together. But this, I don't know, it seemed like Paxman was trying to invent a political stereotype, and ended up hitting on a sociological/religious one that already exists.
but I have wondered if there's an anti-Semitic edge to the nudge nudge he's just a bit weird stuff. Not really seen it mentioned much though, which is mad when you remember things like that 'pigs might fly' poster with Michael Howard on it that had to be pulled.
A lot of it comes down to who's perceived to be at fault. Labour's 'Pigs Might Fly' poster gave the papers an angle with which to attack Labour (I genuinely don't think it was intentionally anti-semitic), but it's the papers themselves who are pushing this 'weird Ed' line.
Part of me thinks that it would be better if they came out and went for the whole anti-Jewish attack as it would provide legitimate evidence for their anti-semitism, but instead it's done in a sly way with that horrid 'posted without comment' sign off, as if pretending to be ignorant of the issue can somehow excuse the inferred meaning.
as well as (some of) the comments.
god the negative ones are bad
worse than people calling Blair 'B-Liar'
i mean at least that made some sort of sense
for those who wanna ramp it up a notch.
B-liar is totally fine
took it out of me a bit, watching that