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Guardian article alert:
it sort of reminds me of that letter that was sent to the observer last month
If someone passionately believes in their position they should surely be able to handle a few dissenting voices.
fall into binary groups of people who agree on all issues.
Kind of take the view that if you believe you have an opinion on something that diverges from others, you should have the courage of your convictions to argue for it instead of being a needy bellsniff.
This article is a really wet positing of a phenomenon that has been around as long as time itself. It's not as emphatic as he suggests either. Appreciate that many morons see `The Left` as a bit of a club whereby you have to adopt certain positions to fit in but... life goes on. A load of folk disagree with you? Give a shit. And `silencing`? It ain't. It's debate, mate.
Good job that he mentions Nick Cohen - one of my favourite writers. He has seemingly no friends amongst his peers, and he seemingly doesn't care. Just gets on with his job. Fair play.
I understand the idea of infighting on a part of the political spectrum but I've never thought of 'the left' as a collection of people who all believe in exactly the same thing. How dull would that be?
But it's a very pervasive thing that `being leftwing` is rigidly definable and that if you're `less leftwing` than someone else then that's A Bad Thing. Happens on here a lot actually. I used to get ripped for being A Tory because I voted No to AV for instance. DD was bleating on about Adam Curtis not being properly left-wing, or something similarly LOLsome, in the Bitter Lake thread recently. It happens.
It's annoying, sure. Not to the extent I'd have a lengthy cry in print about it like this chump mind.
A lot of it is about questioning why people don't apply their principles across the board, for example why many people who claim to be all for equality either limit that principle so that it excludes certain sections of society, or they don't actively take steps to reduce inequality or the restrictions of existing power structures.
An awful lot of people who like to identify as being left-wing or liberal seem to suddenly hit a buffer when it comes to extending their principles into areas that throw their privilege into question.
`An awful lot of people who like to identify as being left-wing or liberal seem to suddenly hit a buffer when it comes to extending their principles into areas that throw their privilege into question`
Not too sure I understand what this means in practice. Or who these `awful lot of people` are.
As can be evidenced by a lot of the discussions on DiS, there are a lot of people who would call themselves left-wing, but when you start asking them to do things like check their privilege, or to consider that they didn't get where they are through their innate talent, they get all upset and try to shut debate down.
I don't know why being desperate to be seen as being left-wing as such a thing for some folk but there we go. That tweet's pretty incisive. And that's before you get to the headfuck existential question of what `being left wing` actually is...
although it's different to what I was describing myself. This writer's fallen into the trap of it too - seemingly conflating people `challenging his views` on certain things with `I'm trying to be silenced` or words to that effect.
If someone is being a dick to you over an opinion you have, it doesn't matter. You either think that person is a dick and move on or you don't think that person is a dick and your opinion changes/you agree to disagree.
Every single person needs to grow the fuck up.
just gets straight on the phone for a waaaaaaaaaaaaaahbulance.
he nearly gets close with 'assumption creep' and then he wanders off into the whiney wilderness again
it's probably not best to claim that Sp!ked as your moral touchstone.
This probably sums it up, for me:
Don't even know what spiked is. Any indie points available for that?
Appreciate he's concerned about `free speech` and that but Brendan O'Neill as your protector of that?! Come on...
...newspaper columnists (!) is pretty funny.
"First they came for Chirstopher Hitchens and Julie Birchill..."
is Hitchens. And that's because he's dead.
Fucking hate the modern phenomenon of claiming `This debate/our voices are being silenced`. There has LITERALLY no greater time in history to put your point across somewhere. So many avenues for doing so now.
Have we finally managed to "marginalise" Burchill? Thank fuck! Took way too long.
should we get a cake in or something?
"the left" does prefer to tear itself apart over moderate lefty-code violations rather than address any real problems of injustice.
For example popular forum user ... ooh dinner time!
(over the EU, gay marriage, etc etc). They just don't do it on here.
Defining who is and who isn't A True Conservative™ is what Peter Hitchens, for instance, spends the majority of his time doing.
Like that `Watermelon` Green Party shit.
plus, isn't seeing left/right as monolithic entities who can be "split" a bit... idk, stupid?
"If we stopped bickering we could be this mega-powerful coalition of righteousness", which kind of misses the point in several ways. I think both 'sides' suffer from seeing the other as an amorphous blob of total power and influence and feeling that they should strive to be the same.
better to have healthy infighting than march in lockstep imo
anyway I promised I'd quit lolitics threads I'm off
couldn't resist, soz
god help us all)
are never allowed to vote for another party or you're a fickle, trend-following, disloyal, abandoner
for a lot of labour types
aren't comfortable with being demonised in the same childish and simplistic fashion that they've been doing to those on the right for years.
It's one thing being called a wooly liberal, socialist, or idealist by your opponents on the right, but when those much harsher insults you've been throwing at the right for years start to come back at you from people with whom you have felt allied, then I can see why it's confusing and hurtful, especially when you consider empathy one of your defining liberal traits. Even more so, when you've not developed the rhetoric to combat things you've never been accused of previously- you can't take the stance of ignoring/dismissing when your preferred approach is to engage.
but actually explaining your beliefs? The author seems to take an issue with the fact that people are actually challenging some of the opinions that he has.
he should try being me
Facist AND marxist....simultaneously apparently
Is this actually a special thing?
Dosn't this happen to everyone?
Isn't it what typifies politics?
which is why you need me as a mod
Have you voted for me yet?
and who's the least left wing lefty?
I reckon I'm somewhere in between
The bit on Islam is pure and utter custard pie in the face farce.
You can see it coming, but oh is he going to... yes, he's going to do that.
it is really a problem that has its roots in north african culture, not specifically Islam.
Ethiopia and Eritrea are both 'christian' countries, yet they have an FGM rate that is at the top.
If someone is as ignorant as this writer is, about such matters they should not be given such a big platform, especially as they purport to be 'a lefty'.
Its no wonder this person has been criticised....yet all he can do is find fault with those that criticise him, rather than considering that he might be wrong in what he says....to a degree that might flag to others that he is indeed , maybe unreasonably slightly biased
I went to a 38 degrees local members meeting a few weeks ago, the first in our area, organised by a student who responded to a call out to local people to start local groups.
It was mainly an even mixture of, on the one hand, people who haven't been involved in activism beyond taking part in online petitions, and on the other people who were veterans of CND campaigns etc and were actively involved in a local NHS fightback campaign and other things. The latter group completely took over the meeting and used up all the time grandstanding as if they were on Question Time or something.
Over the next couple of weeks there was a massive email discussion with everyone who attended CC'd in, which started off about organising an NHS campaign and ended up (I am not even exaggerating here) an argument about which of the USSR or the GDR was based on a purer form of socialism.
Fast forward another week and one of them sends another email saying it was a shame none of the new faces who had been at the initial meeting turned up to the NHS protest and encouraging them to re-engage. I fucking wonder why that might have happened mate.
the only participation I'd had in the previous email discussion was to rather shirtily suggest that people took their argument onto the 38degrees Exeter discussion page as had been politely requested by the meek organiser a couple of times, and that I wouldn't be reading any more of the emails. have kind of set myself up to look a right prick if i want to reply to any now.
just realised this reply is over 200 words
and, as such, I am OUT
is sometimes a good read, but fuck me it takes the whole UR Not Tru Left thing to the limit. Seems to specialise in namedropping as many philosophers as is humanly possible, too.
and less coherent......i nearly lost the will to live, very quickly.
Its interesting that the ideas there are not a million miles from my simpler renditions, which are ridiculed on here.