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Something like this happens about twice a month at Victoria, but fortunately it's a much bigger station. Sometimes it's better just to walk away and come back later.
They do usually handle it terribly in terms of communication and managing crowds but I also have a little sympathy - if someone jumps under a train and you have to close lines out of London for two hours at peak time, it's pretty much impossible for that not to end in chaos.
London Bridge has been operating on the limit because of the Thameslink work since Christmas and Southern seem incapable of co-ordinating services with TfL at the moment.
Good to see some absolute belm city workers pushing through the barriers though. Always good to see them challenging a stereotype.
they weren't merely trying to escape from a crush/ panic situation. I'd fucking well vault the barriers if there was a sea of people pushing me up against them. Those pictured don't look like your average City Boys either- couple of guys in fairly casual clothes and what likes like Kevin off the US office with a Sports Direct bag, crawling under the barrier to get away from a huge surge behind him.
I used to hate commuting thorough lb station- for some reason it feels like the worst.
is just stood around casually and patiently?
Looks like a bit of a squish by the barriers- and speaking as someone who is always losing her ticket/ oyster card (i'm sure this will come as a big surprise to many :D), I know how hard it is to fight your way back through a queue at a barrier, and that's not even when you have a backlog like this. I would end up having a total panic attack if it was me and I am not particularly prone to them, so goodness knows how somebody who was prone would behave.
agreed that if they're just being impatient then they are total tools.
it does look a bit like something of a scrum by the barriers, although there's plenty of space further back where people are checking phones and suchlike. Won't ever really understand the commuter mentality that says you need to push forward at all times to be first onto the next train out of the station.
3 platforms of Jubilee Line trains waiting to set off. Invariably one is leaving in 2 minutes, one in 5 minutes, one in 8 minutes. Half of the station is pelting it to get on the first one. Literally sprinting down the concourse. Seen someone get bashed over in it all.
A daily reminder that the world is actually completely fucking mad.
but knocking people over like pins on your way *in* to work?
On the way home everyone's trudging back. On the way in everyone's fucking pegging it.
But there's nothing frustrating about anyone's situation. People are arriving in a spacious, modern station to get a series of trains which are provided for them at very regular intervals. There is literally no problem.
Otherwise the next will be along in two minutes.
A bus or a train on the other hand might be justified.
Context is everything. And the context in this instance is `there are literally scores of trains after the next one`.
Never do feel more out of step with the modern world.
I've sometimes squeezed myself on to a very overcrowded train home if it's the only one for an hour. Generally wouldn't bother on my way in to work.
The Stratford Jubilee line situation is just completely absurd though.
By far the most aggressive group of commuters on the network that I experienced.
Completely understand the `shit or bust` commuter mentality that comes with trains leaving irregularly and when missing one = a problem. This Stratford situation is notable precisely because it couldn't be more far removed from it.
the man on the floor isn't being pulled backwards by some kind of Eugene Victor Tooms figure?
Classic `evidence-based` posting here.
but tbh LB has problems like this quite often *anyway* although not as severe.
since the Thameslink work started this has entered into a whole new realm of clusterfuck.
It was quite grim.
on Tuesday I went to Canada Water instead and got overground (despite having just got off Jubilee line), last night overground was fucked too so ended up getting bus, only just made it on time to cinema #problems
sorry I meant it happened on Monday too
and am glad i stayed late at the bookshop because i seem to have missed the worst of it. The platform was still rammed though. I've started to default to Uber which is getting expensive. Would drive in but parking in Mayfair isn't a thing unless you have ££££££££ :(
just as they started to announce there were no more southbound trains for the forseeable future. I went back to London Bridge (knowing that'd be screwed too) and had to fight my way OUT of the station. Ultimately I was pretty lucky that one of the few trains actually leaving London Bridge went sort of near to my house.
won't don't you just use those, silly londoners?
this is one of the many reasons that cycling for the win etc
i've got a couple of inner tubes if you want one!
i'm sure there would be no problem with volume of commuters increasing journey times and discomfort
but to achieve that there'd have to be a one person per car limit
south of London Bridge station, where the normal path was one day blocked by hoardings and a diversion in place. The diversion told me that that path would reopen on something like 15th March 2018.
Was very impressed they'd picked a specific date something like five years in the future, and also immediately sceptical they'd be close to done on time.
and leave these threads for the manc lot, they don't have a lot else.
for him to mock people taking public transport for 'not having any self respect' don't worry.
but I still think it's worth (sanctimoniously) stating that given
a) the sheer numbers of passengers it deals with
b) the age of a lot of the infrastructure
c) the consequences of years of underinvestment from previous administrations
`London Transport` (however you wish to define it) does a remarkable job of ensuring most people get to and from their destinations in a safe and effective manner. Worth remembering I think.
Tell me GOML, have you ever used Southeastern/Southern?
They attract opprobrium to an even greater extent than whoever is operating the trains out of Liverpool Street this week.
and then went on to living in an area of London where LB is the hub station (with those lines having a knock on effect on others) I don't think there is a company I could possibly hate more than SE.
I keep getting Nam flashbacks to being stood in the rain and watching a blinking sign of 5min delay, then 10, then 20, then cancelled.
Now usually get one about an hour earlier as nothing heading in to Victoria between about 8.15 and 9.30 ever seems to arrive on time.
It's not far off Crossrail in terms of complexity and the supposed eventual benefits in terms of capacity and reliability.
actually yield massive, positive changes. Mainly because if the disruption doesn't make anything better you'll be able to see the shard burning from miles around.
The morning commuter trains usually seem to be on time until somewhere post-East Croydon, then it's not uncommon to take 15-20 mins to get from Clapham Junction to Victoria, so I assume that's a separate issue.
Hopefully it will improve London Bridge though. Xylo's post above is giving me similar Nam flashbacks to 4 years of mysteriously cancelled LB trains without any announcements.
It'll relieve a lot of the pressure that builds up through Clapham Junction.
We always think that every other country has super reliable trains, but only because because they set the times properly.
if a train was supposed to arrive at 08:35 but it was late every single day, then, right, get this(!), they'd change the schedule and tell you it was was due at 08:50 or something. pretty clever when you think about it.
they did an audit two years ago and adjusted the timetable accordingly. It means that the 'fast' train I get in the morning when I'm travelling in from the country now takes 37 minutes instead of 35 (it always took 37 anyway, it was just always 2 mins late.) It's so much more sensible, because the smooth running of the network relies upon the fact that certain trains will routinely pass certain signalling points at the time they are supposed to, on a consistent basis.
But yeah I have, but not with enough regularity to be irked by its services to be honest. Fully appreciate that individual operators go through ups and downs in their service provision (usually when prefixed by 'First') influenced variously by a) incompetence and b) external factors beyond their control. And that's fucking annoying. Esp. given how much we're paying them. But I do always think the wider picture is worth remembering.
is served by the worst providers of transport in the country (or at least top 3). There are no 'ups' with those guys, only downs or 'less shit'. You would count an up as 'there being a train' and a crazy big win as 'getting home on time'. You would be elated. You would want to hug your fellow commuters.
I've never had to use a `hub` station out of London with any regularity to be honest. Using the tube is unpleasant enough but one of them things ennit.
I mean I take your point, specifically about under-funding. We're ranked as one of the worst transport networks for a capital in Europe but the money has been the reason. Or at least the management of it.
I know people get very passionate either way about private vs. public but I do get the feeling that `ownership` is a bit of a red herring when it comes to the railways nowadays.
Ownership allows you to use a concession, rather than franchise model of operations, and allows you far more control over setting the frequency and level of service, as well as the financial tools to use as a stick to ensure that the ToC complies with them.
I don't really know enough about the intricacies of rail operations to boldly comment in fairness. My guess would be that a publically-run UK railway wouldn't really make much of a difference in terms of customer experience in the short term. Although long term, if the experience of the East Coast Mainline can form an extrapolatary yardstick across the entire network then we *would* be better off by the looks of things (owing to more revenue being investable in track/rolling stock upgrades etc.)
The former would definitely not have seen the improvements to its service had it not been brought back under TfL's control, even if it had been given the same level of investment.
East Coast isn't really a fair model to use for renationalisation either, unfortunately. Upgrades that are now necessary have been put on the back burner for the past five or so years. Had East Coast been the ones to implement them, there would have been a significant change in service and fares to allow it. The failure of National Express's franchise and the creation of East Coast occurred at the start of a relatively fallow period for investment.
Unless you have claustrophobia issues, I guess.
but I'm not going to properly complain about it
Don't even get angry any more at how a 30 minute journey is stretched to 45-50 minutes by the journey. Every day. Eating away at the finite time I have on the planet.
Was quite shocked when someone opened the window to chuck a can of Carlsberg out from the top deck mind. Guess that's jazzlife, man?
about how all the TfL twitter accounts are a bit rubbish? Can someone else lead the conversation?
They tend to just ignore any overground disruptions that only affect New Cross so when I get to the station in the morning and there's no service I'm totally oblivious. Infuriating.
more of this please, everyone
at stops like Caledonian Road then often it won't be possible to get on a tube for like 10 minutes because every central-bound one is overcrowded. But their website/twitters don't fucking tell you.
(pro tip - if the bus stop outside the station is heaving but no problems are reported, there are definitely problems)
they don't know which trains are crowded.
(And either way, they should still be able to warn of potential delays...seek alternative routes...that kind of thing)
Probably the most efficient way of flushing out dickheads known to man. It's genuinely incredible how much indignation can be sparked by what amounts to a minor inconvenience.
My trains got borked by this last night, meaning what should be 35 minutes in a half empty carriage turned into a 2 hour journey involving 3 packed trains and a half hour walk, but y'know, I wasn't run over by a fucking train so in the grand scheme of things I had an ok evening.
I don't think it's the specific delays to that line anyone has trouble with, soft kid. It's how the station itself handles the swell of commuters, considering they should be good at it by now. Also, one of the lines was down because of the fatality, the others were due to (not uncommon) signalling problems.
Do you want a milkshake and a sit down?
sling-abuse-at-staff-and-shout-obscenities-at-fellow-passengers-type that always appears in these situations rather than you for starting this thread...
rather than the shouty people in actual stations.
Benni I apologise. Everyone here will tell you I never normally charge in without having the facts.
Now I believe there was talk of milkshakes...
I pay for a lot of milkshakes this way >:-(
He should be here to call me a bellend for once again, almost weekly at this point, being overly defensive and flying off the handle.
Like a rizla-skinned quango
Enjoyed the suggestion that I'm the one in this thread to needs to relax a bit though
it's the same one that xylopwn is whinging about in the OP.
+ trains generally on time. Have only submitted one Delay Repay request (30+ minute delay) this year.
+ I get a seat on the way there every day and on the way back 80% of the time
+ It's much quicker and cheaper than driving
- Great Northern customer service is noticeably worse than First Capital Connect.
- evening rush hour trains to Kings Lynn run only once an hour. If I miss my usual train, the following is ridiculously full.
- they keep messing around with the bike parking.
- High proportion of bellend 6th-formers on the train I catch.
That is fucking shit.
trains run: 1535, 1635, 1740, and then half-hourly til about 9pm. Apparently we'll be getting a half-hourly service in 2017, to coincide with my 10-year anniversary of commuting from Norfolk.
but my morning train was cancelled THREE TIMES last week (signal failures / staff problems) and also this morning. Om now currently waiting for a Southern train at Forest Hill. When I left home, departure board said on time. Get to station 7 mins later, 3 minutes late. Now its 6 minutes late. Sometimes in the morning this'll happen, then it'll just get cancelled. I don't really mind delays too much, I'm so used to them now, but sometimes I feel like Southern passengers are kind of the players in some kind of game where the people in control don't really think about what it means when a train is delayed delayed delayed CANCELLED etc.
The other day coming back from Gatwick was also completely fucked at East Croydon due to a trespasser and signalling problems. Obvs some of the things that happen are well out of their control but then when it all happens at the same time it just doubly fucks everything :(
at 13.13 in the afternoon.
I'm working late tonight so only just going in now
it's still daylight when I start cycling home BUT it's dark/dim by the time I get back BUT I feel like a spanner having my lights on during the day BUT I'd have to stop and get off to turn on my rear light
I'm so sorry
especially when it involves something like a death, because it is futile to get stressed but I have to register my sentiment on the regular disappointment provided by Southern.
I was at LB last night just as that crowd was beginning to swell because my regular train was delayed by nearly 20 minutes (thankfully it arrived just before the scenes those pictures show).
People say "Well, you didn't die you compassionless git" and of course that's true - I did however have a time-sensitive family thing to take care of yesterday and that train leaving on time was integral (other routes considered as I awaited non-existent news on my delay didn't end up being viable unfortunately).
Far from cursing the unfortunate soul, I was annoyed by the wall of silence coming from the station/service provider - there were absolutely no 'arrival updates' for any delayed train (mine just suddenly turned up out of the blue), only those soppy, unhelpful pre-recorded messages were coming out the tannoy and the general customer service provided by the platform guards was 'vanilla' (but I can't be angry at them too much because they seem to be given the same amount of information as us passengers).
My inward LB bound train has only left 'on time' four times so far this year too...
The reason I find the most laughable for major delays/cancellations is "...due to a staff shortage/lack of a driver" - surely Southern knows how many drivers/platform staff/engineers it requires to operate smoothly and has access to back-up staff? A morning can't just arrive and it suddenly suffer so many 'sickies' or 'I'm quitting right now!" that it effects things to such a degree? There might be a genuine reason behind that and I'd love to know it but that tannoy announcement just sounds embarrassing.
Perhaps unemployment could be reduced a bit by marrying up job seekers with train companies :-)
And before long you have drivers stuck away from the locations where they are rostered to be, and also drivers who have overrun their time allowances and can't be allocated any more. It's not really practicable to have a stock of "emergency" drivers sitting around at major termini waiting for the bat signal.
That's not to defend the planning of some of London's operators and I do agree with you that information has been pretty poor by Southern for a while.
Unfortunately though the only message anyone could have put out last night would have been "Sorry there's no trains because the line's buggered. It'll be fixed when it's fixed. In the meantime could you all try to avoid fighting each other to get to the trains that aren't going anywhere please?"
but First went through a phase where they actually weren't employing enough drivers to run the Thameslink service and were relying on overtime to keep it running - as soon as the drivers started working to rule the service took a complete dive - from memory they ran about half the normal services during rush hour. It's possible Southern have got themselves into a similar situation.
Yeah, I get what you mean by announcements but how about the occasional:
"The delayed 18.59 train to Brighton will now be arriving at 19.17."
rather than the information board simply stating 'delayed' and the tannoy remaining silent - regular updates are surely a basic customer service provision?
I was literally going to cancel my plans and make a very convoluted journey home on the tube when my 20-minute delayed train magically appeared without warning...
and noticeably Southern have been paricularly bad for it since January. I can only assume they're in such chaos they genuinely don't know until the last minute whether the trains are going to run.
For at least a year my regular commute train (Southern) has been late almost every day, and cancelled pretty much one in three. In January there was a phase where it would be "on-time" right up to when it was due when either it would simply vanish from the board or it would instantaneously move to 15 minutes late (and then usually get "delayed" followed by "cancelled"). So things have got worse.
As is often the case though, the answer to the question "why can't they just..." is usually: it's more complicated than you might think to do it; you'd be surprised how basic the technology behind the whole thing is and in any case we have even less of a clue what's going on than you do. colinz is probably right though that there's some penny-pinching coming home to roost too.
why all the fuss....some people got delayed, some people had to queue, some people jumped over and under a barrier....I saw that at the toilets turnstyles at euston on saturday