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Your depressing stat of the day:
but "consequences" is a pretty broad term
as rape without consequences, which is ridiculous, because rape cannot not have consequences
(rape culture is real and very serious)
given that you're investigating issues around people who actually believe things like rape has no consequences.
is that 1/3 of men would be happy to rape if you dont call it rape.
which does a good job of pointing out that there is an apparent "grey area", which in reality is not a grey area at all.
i think adding in the idea of rape without consequences does create a small, weird grey area in the research which doesnt exist in real life, which might have inflated the numbers a little bit.
again, the message of this is valid, but as research it seems a bit odd
'consequences' is indeed a very broad term and it's very likely that the participants took this to mean a wide range of different things. some may have thought more along the lines of the possible consequences for the victim, others might have thought about their own likelihood of being caught or found out, arrested etc. why is that a problem? the whole point of this study is to get at the subjective understandings of men and the differences between them.
you would want to use broader terms like 'consequences' so that you're not pre-empting your participants responses or imposing a specific interpretation on them
duped into speaking about on Brass Eye
Hope you're not misinterpreting me here. Rape without consequences is obviously incoherent as a concept.
without consequences for the offender, i.e. they wouldn't face any repercussion/be found out.
which feels very Brass Eye-esque. Clearly awful that someone would think like that, but the sort of thing someone like Chris Morris might delight in asking dull-headed C-list celebs
i hope it isn't true
Of this section:
Amongst other questions they were asked how they would act in a situation where they could have sexual intercourse with a woman against her will “if nobody would ever know and there wouldn’t be any consequences”.
Why is only the final section a quote - why can't we have the whole question? Also, the final sentence of the article signs off in a particular style. Overall this doesn't seem to be adding anything to what is a serious issue.
as far as i can see, is to break down the idea of the masked rapist in the bushes idea and get people to understand that what some see as "getting a woman who doesnt want to have sex with you to have sex with you" is rape.
i think this is quite effective at that, but with the proviso above, that its numbers might be exaggerated by the fact that "without consequences" is a very confusing term in this context
However, this is vague reporting of what sounds like a vague study. 31.7% of 86 people? So 27.26 people said yes?
even if it's a completely impossible counterfactual (which it is cause as you rightly say, rape always 'has consequences'), it's clearly meant to investigate how these people rationalize it. as long as we don't draw as a conclusion that all of these respondent would actually rape someone, then it is useful within certain limits.
i don't think it's a piece of research i would design if i was investigating this sort of thing but then feminist researchers have been looking at this sort of thing for decades and it always seems like people need some questionable statistic in order for a piece of research to be 'valid'. if you really wanted to understand this issue, you would not use a self completion survey full stop lol.
but 'valid' research definitely doesn't need questionable statistics - it requires sound methodology. The results are essentially irrelevant if the methods are sound science and the analysis used is appropriate.
and you pretty much always would use self-reporting when investigating attitudes. you might also use some cognitive-neuro techniques; e.g. fmri scans, eye tracking etc.. to record physiological responses to stimuli that may correspond - or something to provide an unconscious reaction, as well as conscious.
One piece of research must be very specifically focussed, you rarely get one paper covering as much as you would want to know because it can only analyse one issue at a time. generally.
think that social research needs to be statistical in order to be valid. if you've read anything at all about the history/philosophy/theory of research methods then surely you realise there has been a lot written about the relationships between feminism and (anti)positivism?
'nd you pretty much always would use self-reporting when investigating attitudes' ----- please tell me you're not a sociologist or an anthropologist?
but everything I work with is empirical based, so I don't have anything to do with antipositivism
(also 'empirical' doesnt mean 'quantitative'. my research doesn't use any kind of positivist framework or any stats but it's still 'empirical').
but as I say, I do not know much about antipositivism, other than it exists. i am not very well read on it. (I'm not really very well read at all tbh)
which I don't see you do in other threads with articles posted, you kind of know you're beaten dude.
...but that is exactly the kind of thing that I take exception with in other threads with poorly written articles.
and a lot of the dialogue around it being about semantics and journalistic flow.
literally none of this thread has been about discussing why it might be that 20 men out of 90 odd men have actually told someone that in certain circumstances they would rape a woman. just a bunch of skeptics and people more interested in dissecting the word 'consequences'. just doesnt make sense to me why that's what people want to talk about.
so it says the research was around 84 people. that doesn't seem very many, but off the top of my head i'd imagine it's probably quite similar numbers to a lot of similar studies on a variety of topics. is 84 enough people? if so, why? appreciate this is more an I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THIS SORT OF RESEARCH WORKS than anything else
i can read, honest
but that's not really the point. they spoke to 80-odd people. more than 20 of those said they would rape someone.
just a question i had that i've generally wondered about attitude surveys like this
but, a normal distribution curve, thanks. now just to revise normal distribution curves
(which if you read the study, are actually mostly pointed out).
it shows that even social desirability bias (saying what you think the researcher wants to hear and concealing negative or incriminating responses) isnt enough for people to actually admit that they would have sex without consent in certain circumstances.
i genuinely know little about research methods. so, with 86 responses, the idea is you wouldn't expect any real difference in % of responses in each category as you scaled the sample size up? so instead of 31% of those having intentions to force a woman into sex, you can reasonably expect it to be similar with 800 or 8000 responses? it's horrifying when you think of it like that (non-sequitur of the day)
as it's looking at college students specifically and within their environment. also this is meant to be more of a starting point for future research and doesn't seem to be making many claims about generalizability/external validity. if it was more of a psychological study then this would probably be more important (idk, i'm not a psychologist but they do tend to care more about replication and meta-analysis). research doesn't all have the same criteria for evaluation. and even if someone was to replicate this study at another uni and get totally different results, that wouldn't necessarily tell us anything about its reliability/rigor/usefulness etc.
as well as the amount of men who think its ok.
Im shocked, but I suppose Im not supprised, I suppose I've recognised this attitude and been against it all through my 'growing up'
I think that a larger number than a 3rd of men actually might verbally go along with such attitudes when in their groups, because i got the distinct feeling of alienation from masculinity due to its almost #allmen nature (as displayed by teenagers displaying machismo bravura).
"yeah guys, get a BRAIN"
It was specifically because of the dialogue above.
Take the day off.
in the study is how there was a higher instance of admittance to 'forcing a woman in having sex' than to 'raping' (I'm paraphrasing). Alarming how younger men - again this is going by the research, are more comfortable to admit to forcing a girl into sex than using the term 'raping'. Quite scary they don't see a correlation.
but this did make me think I'd be interesting to see the same question asked about murder.
Subjectively, I can't imagine why anybody would ever want to rape anyone. I know why people rape (power mainly, and sexual motivation isn't always a huge factor) but I can't imagine getting off on having sex with somebody who wasn't as totaslly into oit as I was. my ego wouldn't be able to handle that at all and I'd trather it just didn't happen.
tere are a couple of people I'd happily see off the planet, however, if I thought I could get away with it. (not really of course because I would never do that to their innocent families- but I'm a lot more tempted.)
What makes a man decide to have sex with somebnody who doesn't want to have sex with him? what kind of fucked up jerk would you have to be? This is the bit I struggle with. I'm not without empathy for the male psyche, notwithstanding the fact I'm female, but maybe this is something that a woman is never going to be able to get her head around fully.
when you say
" but I can't imagine getting off on having sex with somebody who wasn't as totaslly into oit as I was. my ego wouldn't be able to handle that at all and I'd trather it just didn't happen."
exactly how I feel inside
i mean... just... eugh
(and some women, too) - an extension of a power fantasy, coupled with the Hollywood myth that a woman's resistance can be broken down and turned into acceptance through committing the act.
given the entire point of this thread/article ... many men don't actually conceptualize it as rape or even any kind of violation.
Even if you take away the disgusting power trip and breaking of character - on a physical level it wouldn't even... feel good. Surely it would just be rough and rank.
I know that what you say is right- but surely there are plenty who rape who don't necessarily have rape fantasies. A situation comes along and they go for it. I actually do think all rapists should be castrated.
which conclude that a third of Muslims are pro terrorism, or something else equally crazy. It doesn't relate to actual real life.
like which ones do you think are good? anything relevant to this topic that you've found?
how real do you want it to be?
Fisher, B.S., Cullen, F.T., & Turner, M.G. (2000). The Sexual Victimization of College Women. National Institute of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics.
Findings from this report include:
It is estimated that the percentage of completed or attempted rape victimization among women in higher educational institutions may be between 20% and 25% over the course of a college career.
Among college women, 9 in 10 victims of rape and sexual assault knew their offender.
Almost 12.8% of completed rapes, 35% of attempted rapes, and 22.9% of threatened rapes happened during a date.
2.8% experienced either a completed rape (1.7%) or an attempted rape (1.1%) during the six-month period in which the study was conducted. Of victims, 22.8% were victims of multiple rapes. If this data is calculated for a calendar year period, nearly 5% of college women are victimized during any given calendar year.
It is estimated that for every 1,000 women attending a college or university, there are 35 incidents of rape each academic year.
Off-campus sexual victimization is much more common among college women than on-campus victimization. Of victims of completed rape 33.7% were victimized on campus and 66.3% off campus.
Less than 5% of completed or attempted rapes against college women were reported to law enforcement. However, in 2/3rds of the incidents the victim did tell another person, usually a friend, not family or school officials.
Krebs, C.P., Lindquist, C.H., Warner, T.D., Fisher, B.S., & Martin, S.L. (2007). The Campus Sexual Assault (CSA) Study. National Institute of Justice.
Findings from this report include:
Many women (88%) have never consumed a drink left unattended or consumed a drink given to them by a stranger (76%).
One-quarter of the sample (25%) reported consuming alcohol or drugs before sex at least once a month, and slightly fewer (23%) were drunk or high during sex at least once a month.
Eighteen percent experienced an attempted (13%) and/or completed (13%) sexual assault since entering college.
Among the total sample, 5% experienced a completed physically forced sexual assault, but a much higher percentage (11%) experienced a completed incapacitated sexual assault.
Sexual assaults were most likely to occur in September, October and November, on Friday or Saturday nights, and between the hours of midnight and 6:00 a.m.
Most victims of physically forced or incapacitated sexual assault were assaulted by someone they knew (79% and 88%).
Freshmen and sophomores are at greater risk for victimization than juniors and seniors.
Mohler-Kuo, M., Dowdall, G., Koss, M., & Wechsler, H. (2004). Correlates of Rape While Intoxicated in a National Sample of College Women. Journal of Studies on Alcohol, 65, 37-45.
In one study, one in 20 (4.7%) women reported being raped in college since the beginning of the year – a period of approximately 7 months – and nearly three quarters of those rapes (72%) happened with the victims were so intoxicated they were unable to consent or refuse.
One study found that students living in sorority houses (3 times at risk) and on-campus dormitories (1.4 times at risk) were more likely to be raped than students living off-campus.
Women from colleges with medium and high binge-drinking rates had more than a 1.5-fold increased chance of being raped while intoxicated than those from schools with low binge-drinking rates.
Women who had practiced binge-drinking in high school had an increased likelihood of rape while intoxicated.
Its obviously so awful but this is people we're talking about. Don't trust 'em.