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I don't leave the top and bottom buttons of my cardigan undone if I don't want to (if it's cold).
at every juncture.
Few things I hate more than fashion. Hate it hate it hate it.
if you're viewing `fashion` and `culture` as flexible concepts.
You can follow fashion trends if you want to chap, I don't care.
if yr snooty about trends (and a lot of us are!) that's a pretty solid fashion statement in itself, like
...but I see where this argument is going. Fair enough.
it is if you consider that 'fashion' is a mode or form - not just of dress but trends in society, issues of etiquette etc.
wearing something that is perceived to be `fashionable`, or changing your image/look based upon what you perceive to be current trends.
That's what I'm hating on. If using `fashion` is the wrong word for this then fair enough. Obviously I recognise there's a huge grey area here, but I can't be fucked for this argument to turn into a load of postmodern blancmange.
Even, perhaps especially, those who wear a t-shirt and jeans because they think they're above it all.
...but it's the bit about changing how one looks to `fit in` which is the bit that doesn't sit right with me.
Different values though; sure.
Fashions are largely about not fitting in with and about being different to the mainstream/'lamestream'. A mainstream that deludes itself that it's not a follower of fashion too.
'Fashion' is usually about either creating your own look or identifying ('fitting in') with a niche or minority.
Regardless of initial motivation.
like, obviously no-one should be a dick to anyone about it, but I've never seen how people buying new clothes and styles changing and evolving over time is any worse than, say, people buying new music and styles/genres changing over time.
I mean, "changing your image based upon what you perceive to be current trends" sounds bad, sure, but so would "getting into bands solely because you perceive them to be currently popular."
People buy shit they like, and some of that is informed by marketing and trends; no different if it's music or clothes or videogames or whatever. Often people seem to have a problem only in the case of clothes - "oh, well, it's *fashion*, people just buy what they're told, sheep" - but this happens with, like everything?
BEST DO SOME WORK NOW EH.
Still retain fans who, you know, genuinely love the thing whether it's popular or not.
assuming that everyone who buys clothes does it *solely* because things are *in* and not because they in any way validly like the clothes themselves. That's nonsense. People do buy things they wear forever, and conversely, some people will only buy the music of the moment.
Clothing and fashion just isn't some kind special case here.
Ignoring the fact that it's absurd to suggest that everyone (sweeping generalisation for the sake of discussion) just independently comes to the same conclusions about the clothes they like organically and at the exact same time as everyone else who's also coincidentally decided they like the same stuff.
I know we go over this all the time and it seems like I'm just perpetually angered by it when really I'm mostly just perpetually bemused by the widely accepted statement that your clothes say something about you. I just wish someone, somewhere could provide a valid answer to what exactly it is your clothes say about you that wouldn't be better expressed through a personality?
"Ignoring the fact that it's absurd to suggest that everyone (sweeping generalisation for the sake of discussion) just independently comes to the same conclusions about the clothes they like organically and at the exact same time as everyone else who's also coincidentally decided they like the same stuff."
This is a stupendous straw man, and I've quite literally written things in this thread that contradict it. Of course marketing and trends affect people's preferences. they do in music too. and films. and videogames. same as same as same as.
And people self express through clothes in a certain way to a certain degree, just as much as they do with their taste in all things. It's not a substitute for a personality; it's just another thing. Don't see where anyone wrote otherwise?
But clothes = self-expression is the central truth (?) which keeps an inherently fickle and morally bankrupt industry alive and it's just something I can't relate to in the slightest, it just seems so utterly alien to me.
clothes = self-expression to the degree to which people wear things they think look nice doesn't really seem to make the rest of that para follow without some other, massive assumption or something?
A childhood full of bullying about not wearing the right stuff has made me inherently suspicious about the whole lot it just gets to me when you can see there's an obviously morally bankrupt industry which is more or less propped up by a central ethos that I just do not get in the slightest.
Each to their own innit, my issue is not and never has been about people liking clothes, they're as valid a thing as anything else to like, my issue is with fickleness, judgementalness (?) and the industry itself being fucking horrible.
which is fine, but I still don't think clothes really stick out above the rest of it. I dunno. Anyway have to actually fucking work now jesus god.
I just think the worst excesses of consumerism are manifested in the fashion industry and I'm yet to hear a convincing argument otherwise.
roaming the net, threatening women with murder and rape and driving them from there homes, I think it's probably video games tbh?
but you putting words in my mouth when I have said things that contradict them upthread, well, that *is* a strawman.
Or mods? Or people wearing vintage clothing?
They're sticking with it, they're not fickle. I admire them.
perhaps it's just me, but I don't see how anyone can hate a sub-section of culture and yet subscribe to things like music, art, film, literature, technology, etc etc etc.
All of them have elements that are unethical, that prey on people's insecurities, that engender obsolescence, class divisions blah blah blah.
I find the glee with which, say, punks or computer game fans ridicule fashion hilariously hypocritical.
when you see the odd spot of vox-popping of people in Dalston or whatever and some of them without fail say something like:
`I'm not following a trend - I dress like this because it's who I am`
In spite of looking exactly the same as almost every other bastard featured.
This isn't intended as a snipe by the way (although it does work very well as one) it's more that trend following is more unconscious than we think. It's pretty interesting.
and most people in those areas would accept that they are wearing vogueish things.
what's more interesting is when people who wear plainer stuff fool themselves into thinking their clothing isn't equally a performance, imo
Actually there's probably no real way to dress without inherently making some kind of statement. Consciously or otherwise. Now I'm a manager at work I dress as plainly as possible BUT THAT'S A FASHION CHOICE IN ITSELF.
But if you're a lass wearing brown brogues, tight jeans, a checked shirt and with big old sunglasses on saying `yeah this is just me, yeah` then... y'know.
Should go back and see what they all look like in 5 years time.
is quite a statement.
That statement being: I'm dressing as a hipster from 2008, completely differently from everybody else in Dalston in 2014.
is completely different to sneakers, harem pants and a crop top.
right this second we'd be able to find examples of BOTH quicker than you can say `let's get some street food`.
there are a lot of people who like to think of themselves as fighting the good fight in defence of those who haven't been afforded the luxury of cultural education, for instance, who then in the next breath laugh at what others wear. The same people that get extremely vocal about ethical practices but appear to have a blindspot when it comes to fashion.
I will leave fidel to c+p whatever snark he's got written down for this situation, but it's true enough.
why do them up if i'm just going to unzip/unbutton them again later?
Credit the indie points to my account please.
normcore since birth
not in a preppy way though. in a sportswear-and-all black/grey way
polo top thing with the buttons done right to the top.
and wearing denim-on-denim, with the denim jacket button right up
on the one hand, it seems to be taking off a bit. On the other, it's doing so in really dull way.
[I haven't read it]
having people only show up to moan
doesn't half make it difficult to buy clothes sometimes
Imagine being such a toad that you would rather buy a tee-shirt with ready rolled sleeves (stitched in place) rather than simply buy a normal one and roll them up when you feel like it.
it's wrong to assume that "fashion" = "trends". People who blindly follow trends because of the fact it's a trend and regardless of what actually suits them - this is a bit silly.
However, high-fashion (proper designer labels) are (generally) more concerned with clothes being the medium for their art rather than what's popular or contemporary. Ofcourse they want to SET trends as they are primarily commercial entities and also want to make their mark on the industry.
Ultimately I don't really think "hating fashion" is even a thing.
Work trousers split down the side, stapled it back together