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quite interesting, well worth a read.
really enjoyed it - very honest and I liked that she kept the subjects faces out the picture so they could really open up with their interviews.
The media definitely needs to work on its portrayal of people's bodies instead of only subscribing to this 'perfect' image of how people are 'supposed' to look.
i think changing our attitudes to nudity would help too. think there should be more nudey swimming pools for women to go and feel comfortable about their bodies in a supportive, non-sexual environment.
it's all boobs and bush on that show and no dicks. It's getting ridiculous now. Barely five minutes pass without seeing a naked lady.
is the modern version of Grecian statues.
Look at this statue of Hercules;
He has more muscles than a human. I don't mean "bigger muscles", I mean, straight up, more muscle groups than a human has. Just one quick example, there's many more than that. Not just in terms of diety-tier musculature, but going the other too, like those fertility carvings of rotund women from 20k BC
Good documentary on this here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Art_Made_the_World#Episode_one:_More_Human_Than_Human...
There's one possible explanation on why humans go for this beyond perfect ideal in it too;
"Neuroscientist Vilayanur S. Ramachandran speculates that the reason for this lies in a neurological principle known as the supernormal stimulus, which Spivey demonstrates by replicating Nikolaas Tinbergen's experiment with Herring gull chicks. When the chicks are shown a yellow stick with a single red line made to represent their mother's beak, they tap on it as they are programmed to do to demand food. However, when they are presented with a stick with three red lines they tap on it with increased enthusiasm even in comparison to the original beak. Ramachandran concludes, I think there's an analogy here in that what's going on in the brains of our ancestors, the artists who were creating these Venus figurines were producing grossly exaggerated versions, the equivalent for their brain of what the stick with the three red stripes is for the chick's brain."
but looks like there's flaws with his method;
So I'd love to see a similar, modern study. Also the lack of html on dis is painful.
Anyway, exaggeration in the portrayal of the human body is nothing evil, or new, nor does it need to change. People who are bothered by people being better than them need better coping or acceptance skills, not their media diet to be changed.
I don't really care either way, though. The market will decide in the long run what people like looking at (fingers crossed for Tom of Finland tier exaggeration. Let's quit half assing it with photoshop and have every man be a 40k Space Marine, every woman a Jessica Rabbit)
Anyway, I don't agree - it's not to do with exaggeration, it's to do with an unrealistic reflection of the diversity of human bodies. Everything is symmetrical, neat and "normal" looking (i.e. looking a way which makes people look at their own bodies and worry they DON'T look "normal"). Human bodies are vastly imperfect, diverse and unique and this should be portrayed more often in the mainstream media to stop people worrying that they don't fit in with the norm and ending up with body-issues as a result.
The human brain can tell the difference between a statue and real life easily, but it's photographs that fool it more.
Anyway, Greeks and Romans saw a huge range of people naked every day, so they knew perfectly well what the normal range of a body looked like.
Not just demigods. That documentary episode I linked explains really well, if you're interested.
Exaggeration = unrealistic reflection of the diversity of human bodies
Same thing. Exaggerate the good, attractive features.
(I like how they made the dumpy guy feel better by giving him a Transylvanian warlord mustache, though. Considerate)
Pushing average bodies into the media won't fix peoples insecurities, which is the root issue here.
@YesIAmTalkingToYou; My argument doesn't depend on people mistaking statues for real people. I'm saying people like looking at beyond human bodies.
Dunno if more nudity would help with peoples insecurities though. Are places with public nude baths less prone to body image issues than more prudish cultures?
Can't find a study ;_;
Also the rise in body image issues coincides with the rise in obesity rates. Correlation doesn't mean causation, obviously, but look at this study;
"Those who exercised on only one day or less per week were more dissatisfied with their
body image than those who exercised more frequently. Analysis suggests that body image
satisfaction increases in line with the level of exercise."
"There appears to be a close positive correlation between body-image satisfaction and frequency of exercise. Perhaps this goes some way towards explaining gender differences in body-image satisfaction. Boys exercise frequently and they exercise for enjoyment. Girls are not as active overall as boys and are less likely to cite enjoyment as a reason for exercising. Perhaps related to this, 1 in 2 girls say they do not take enough exercise to stay healthy, while the majority of boys say they take the right amount. "
It's difficult to rely on surveys for anything body related, because people are terrible at judging their exercise levels.
Anecdotal but I work out a lot and I absolutely love my body.
"Pushing average bodies into the media won't fix peoples insecurities" correct, nothing can "fix" that but it would probably help.
You're probably making some interesting points but it's all getting a bit tl;dr for me, sorry :( I did look at the picture though - which shows you the full extent of the attention I pay to DiS replies these days.
stop backing up your totally valid opinion with links, unless they are more links to pictures. In which case you may continue.
I used to worry a lot that my boobs were not good enough.
It's a stupid thing to worry about.
I feel like my posture is a bit messed up because they weigh me down a bit.
i'm a 34G and get back pain. dunno if my boobs make it worse :(
most places don't seem to cater to larger-boobs unless you want some horribly ugly beige/white bra. And they can be so expensive online as well, so frustrating.
my thinly veiled has larger ones and it's a nightmare for her to find bras that aren't as you described
i just find it weird because we live in an age where we have saturation of consumer choices...but not for bras, apparently.
The manufacturers seem to assume that everyone who buys the smaller sizes wants to be upholstered like a small sofa with padding, but as soon as you get to the sizes they're padding the smaller people out too, it's all just granny wear. It's really odd.
just scour the bravissimo sale all the time
love the 101-year-old swimmer.
i like these types of articles that the guardian does. there was a similar one a few weeks ago: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/aug/22/the-secrets-of-long-term-love
long relationships like that are such a strange and precious thing. imagine being so thoroughly intwined with another person.
it's nice that they all felt free enough to open up.
I think the human body is beautiful in all variations, really. in its duality with the mind and that.
it's sad that there's a societal burden to iron out perceived flaws in a body (obviously health is different - like the one who had reduction surgery), but these 'flaws' give a compelling insight into a person, when a person opens up on the subject.
A project showing the huge natural variety of female genitalia. (obviously incredibly NSFW)
There was an even bigger gallery I saw once, I tried to find it just now, but I got loads of plastic surgery sites, which was dispiriting.
where you get drunk and make a cast of your vulva kinda like this http://www.mamamia.com.au/relationships/the-great-wall-of-vagina-nsfw/ http://www.greatwallofvagina.co.uk/casting-process we called it "get twatted".
I read recently on Judy Chicago's work The Dinner Party: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/20/AR2007042000419.html
It's up there with the Ghent Altarpiece or The Burial of Count Orgaz as the greatest work of art I've ever seen in situ. Incredibly powerful and the early reviews were jaw-droppingly awful.
One of the articles I read in the wake of the hacked celeb nudes had a comment from someone who said the saddest thing that had come out of it all was a rash of comments from young men who were apparently appalled at how "saggy" Kate Upton's breasts were. We've reached the stage where Hollywood, pornography, page 3, the fashion industry and myriad other groups have completely dislocated any rational sense of body image.
I accidentally came across a website recently where people could submit their photos for advice from plastic surgeons, and then I think you could book with them or something. I wish I'd bookmarked it, because the whole place was bizarre and horrifying. There was a perfectly normal looking woman who sent her photo in and was worried that her cheeks were "too flat", the surgeons agreed and seemed to think there was only one acceptable shape for the human cheek and they suggested she got some silicon pads inserted under her face to make her cheeks more apple-like. Those silicon cheek pads sound like the kind of thing you'd use to reconstruct someone's face after a terrible injury, but here they are being presented as some kind of obligation to make your face less hideous. I'd rather have my own apparently awful flat cheeks than be able to feel some kind of plasticy lump under them.
exactly why diverse body-types need to be portrayed!
and she made a video about 'confidence' where she encouraged her viewers to discuss plastic surgery with a particular surgeon via twitter. completely ridiculous.
i've got to start work now but here's some links:
the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOVMqhjkX54
there are a few petitions, and here is a tumblr: http://confidencewithoutsurgery.tumblr.com/post/93062168743/please-report-this-video-ingrid-nilsen-aka
some response: http://www.lipstickalley.com/showthread.php?t=740779 (also a couple of other forums that aren't indexed by google, like 'gurugossiper').
really bizarre product placement.
It winds me up even more when people try to force this stuff on people under guise of empowerment and confidence boosting. Really empowering people is about making them feel ok with their own body after spending all their life being taught that it's all wrong somehow.
has its origins in the horrific, life-shattering injuries suffered by soldiers in WWI - there was a really interesting exhibition in the Welcome Collection a few years ago that covered some of that history. A link here [warning over some of the images that links to]: http://blog.wellcomelibrary.org/2014/07/the-great-war-on-disfiguring-injuries/
There's something really tragic in the original gains made through assisting people whose lives were potentially ruined being corrupted by surgeons making a fortune and to enforce very narrow norms of acceptable appearance.
I saw that Wellcome collection show too, it was great. I looked up what the silicon implants look like, and they really do seem to be something you'd use to reconstruct a face that has been repurposed in a creepy way.
Crazy people opt to have stuff like that inserted into them for non-medical reasons given some of the health scares in recent years.
Ah, cool. The Wellcome Collection really put on fantastic, thought-provoking exhibitions - looking forward to them reopening.
is so regressive and unrealistic. Even from sources that should know better like this from Channel 4 about large inner labia:
Instead of the rent a doc telling the concerned patient that it's totally normal and showing her a few websites they discuss surgery. Fortunately there are some sites like the one up there that actually show the reality.
And inspired by those links there what do people think when the media calls female genitalia the vagina as opposed to vulva or labia? It really annoys me for some reason. I do wonder if not using the proper words makes people think there's just a hole and internal organs when there is just as much stuff going on outside as with men. Which could lead to people being concerned about things like large labia as the language used implies there should be 'nothing' there? (Does this make any sense? I'm not sure I've explained that well).
I'm glad that you're taking this view, because it's the right one, and good thinking, but could you address this please, before we continue?
@NickDS “That girl making him do that was proper sociopathic. From what I've since heard (I didn't see it at the time so I might not have the full picture) that his dodgy post wasn't *that* bad, ina ppropriate sure but not worth the number it seems to have done on him since :(". Must be nice having psychic powers and being able to know the contents of text you haven't read. I'll have to ask you the plot of the next best-seller, so I can write it and make my fortune. It's clear that you don't think I quite count as a real person, and that your perception of things overrides my own, even about my own life and when you don’t actually have any of the information.
We all make our opinions on the information we have and sociopathic might be a bit much (I love a bit of hyperbole) I still have that opinion on the original thread and tbh remembering (frankly off the cuff) posts from months later and posting about them isn't doing much to change my opinion... soz
Well then, you can talk the talk when it comes to equality, but you're not walking the walk.
It's like the very basic definition of mansplaining and bottom of the barrel basic sexism.
1) Dismissing any woman who is angry about something that happened to her "crazy"
2) Then thinking that you are well placed to give an Objective Judgement, even though you know none of the facts whatsoever and never actually read the thing I was so angry about, but your vague idea trumps my actual lived experience of my life, because you are a man, and your vague idea is an Objective Truth, and my own opinion about *my own* life and experiences don't really count.
And yes I do consider:
1) Being portrayed like a cheap little thing he found on some street corner
2) Having my genitalia discussed without my consent
3) Having my period described in an incredibly exaggerated way to make me sound like a circus freak and then mocked for it
4) Having the incredibly identifiable place where I live described in great detail, and the small closely knit bar we went to where I am a regular, and sometimes put things on at named
5) Being mocked for being poor, as if this makes me into some kind of worthless little slag
6) Having entirely made up details inserted to make me look really bad and gross
7) Having the entire story framed in a "look at what a disgusting girl I gritted my teeth and slept with to bring you lads a laugh" kind of way
less than half a day after I wished him well and told him I had a nice time with him even if we weren't going to have another date because the timing was all wrong, to be *pretty serious*
Enough over-sharing for you? A random selection of people here, and Sean got to learn things about me I'd never ever tell them. Ever. I had to get Sean to read it to get it deleted.
as I said so it's got nothing to do with feminism or equality so I don't really know why you're framing it like that towards me. It was based on my opinion on revenge and public humiliation, maybe it was deserved for what he did and maybe it wasn't. Of course it wasn't some objective judgement. (Like I said hyperbole and 90% of the time my posts are tongue in cheek and should be taken with a pinch of salt).
And the whole chasing me round a thread and quoting things at me from months ago - well another subjective opinion but I find it a little creepy and ties in with my opinion on the original point.
Now you're right, I don't know you and maybe it was unfair to make the comment without knowing you or all the facts (but don't we all to a certain extent). I don't dislike anyone on here and if you decide to stick around I hope we can at least chat and have discussions amicably. If you think I'm some terrible dick... well fair enough but I'm not going to get into some big back and forth about it.
It was one of the things on here that upset me the most. If you don't want to see my point, I'm not going to bother arguing it out. All you had to say was "I'm sorry I said that, I didn't really have all the facts, and I shouldn't have acted as though I did". You didn't however.
Trying to be treated as a human being is exhausting. I am done with you people. I've had my say now.
It is quite amazing how, in one thread, you've highlighted how oppressive our expectations about women's bodies are, and how pervasive body shaming is, then gone straight on to devalue a woman's lived experience of that exact thing.
What you originally said about her was sexist and just downright dreadful.
"That girl" - she's not a child.
"making him do that was proper sociopathic" - blaming her for it. I don't know YIATTY but I imagine that she didn't want to be in a position where she was asking cat_race to make that thread. But he brought it on himself first by posting about her then refusing to apologise. It's interesting that you think what she did was at all sociopathic (even if you were exaggerating, and you clearly don't know what the word even means) but not someone who would post intimate and harmful details about her just to get a good story out of it.
Then you go on to say what he posted wasn't that bad - deligitimising YIATTY's experience and imposing your own (totally irrelevant) interpretation of the situation.
Despite what you're telling yourself, it has everything to do with "feminism or equality". The reason we're having this conversation is because it was deemed acceptable for cat_race to use this forum to violate a woman's consent and privacy. It's pretty clear that without women like YIATTY calling guys out for being clueless bawbags, we wouldn't be getting anywhere. But what you're doing right now is trying to stop her in her tracks + convince her to do things the way you're comfortable with. You don't like that she's brought this stupid thing you said up, I can understand that. It makes you incomfortable. But you did say it and unless you're willing to listen to her telling you why it still matters, then you can't really claim that you give a shit about equality.
It would actually probably save you more time if you stopped talking over women's experiences and listened.
because you succeeded. people on this site couldn't even refrain from invalidating and even mocking a woman's experience of being abused on here.
when you're in a relationship with someone- from A to G or wherever- it's fantastic on a physical level to get acquainted with them. And I don't mean that in quite the Nuts way it sounds- they're the red telephone on Obama's table to the Kremlin that is the deepest emotional house in our brain. That somebody might augment them surgically by cutting through nerve endings feels tragic.
And in knowledge of the above, it doesn't take much more of a logical step to realise that outside of a relationship with someone, they are beautiful and wonderful of their own, regardless of shape and size. Indeed the variety is itself a wonderful thing.
It is a shame that there is a whole industry/conspiracy of idiocy that undermines and attacks women of different body and breast size.
but that's my twopenny-worth