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I don't get it.
she's never written a song as good as this:
I'm broadly pro-Beyoncé
An amazing ear for a good track
Is becoming a really strong role model and voice for feminism for people who wouldn't necessarily be interested in that sort of thing
Is absolutely fucking beautiful
without someone bringing up her race/gender.
the first reply in the thread starts the game, and under that first reply people guess how many replies until the phrase "middle class" is used
think I would've guessed 5 here, not very good
you just invented a game even worse than my cricket game.
people got well defensive about this. bunch of nuts readers with record collections with no beyonce albums.
because they don't 'get it', because they fancy her and they're confused about her being more than just an attractive human, because they're threatened by her talent and influence as a woman of colour
I didn't take "I don't get it" as a criticism
i've said it before and i'll say it again: lots of anger directed at female celebrities and musicians on this site, from men who 'don't get' their music
lots of anger directed at females on this site who post and from men who are shaken up when a woman has a legitimate, different opinion to theirs
I mean if we're talking about the world of R'n'B or pop? I seem to recall you did a Drake thread? I thought that got a similar mauling.
Frank Ocean's album was pretty divisive and full of stuff, although there is a whole homosexuality/bisexuality aspect to account for that too.
I'm not really getting at you here, just interested on who the male analogues are for Beyoncé, Rihanna, Katy Perry and Niki Minaj? Certainly in terms of appreciation here. Sometimes I wonder if that's also part of the site's male bias, that we see guys who really don't want to admit that they're thinking with their hormones and emotions over actually judging the music.
*breathes out* etc.
Your point is basically there isn't many male equivalents of female pop megastars though right? Couldn't be just because people have an aesthetic preference for female vocals for this sort of thing? (Certainly the case with me)
Timberlake is a good example, really, as he's of the same sort of period as Beyoncé.
It's more a question of whether the male stars are even there or whether they are there but DiS doesn't go for them.
its more often than not a female, the are the standard responses going 'ahhhh fake insipid bullshit' but I don't get the overwhelming sense of mysogony towards female pop musicians on this forum because the exact same criticisms are thrown at anything thats pop music on this forum by the same handful of people.
and don't like her music
are in a position where their aesthetic judgments and tastes are more 'legitimate', 'superior' and important etc. and also conditioned by previous access to (and socialization in relation to) more 'white middle class' artistic productions and education, right. 'taste' is a classificatory scheme - and it also classifies the classifier; we distinguish ourselves by the distinctions we make about 'good' and 'bad' music etc. so it's quite a big deal for middle class people when they don't "get" something they think they should.
with beyonce, there's an apparent source of discomfort or a dilemma when certain people don't "get it" (or another popular work of art that gains critical acclaim) and people feel like they're missing some crucial knowledge (and also they want to see everything from their own vantage point of taste). which is not the case. it's like people saying "oh i don't really know anything about modern art but i like going to galleries". they're mistaken about what it is to "know" about art.
basically... you not liking beyonce is no more interesting or important than another person not liking the oxbridge boat race.
people totally misunderstand what I'm saying and make out like it's a load of rubbish... then apparently ignore my post actually explaining it.
i would be interested in hearing what: alcxxk Antelope, Matt_was_taken, fitzcarraldo, furio, monoshono, NickDS, sadpunk, badmanreturns, imaperv, foppyish have to say.
that reaching the point where you realise your taste is just an amalgamation of your experiences and prejudices, and is no more valid than any other taste, is an arduous fucking trek - I'm only just getting there now, and I've been debating culture online for over a decade
when you cross the subjectivity rubicon you forfeit any integrity in dismissing others' preferences. engaging & arguing them is fine, so long as you empathise, expose yourself to their terms of audiencehood
not the ballads, but then i dont like some other white man middle class stuff dis gets.. so.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
feels like you're attacking people for having preferences in music, and investment in those preferences, then acting like beyonce's music is somehow transgressive, when it's by and large incredibly safe (sometimes brilliant) pop.
dont think your comparison to art was particularly clear and only really had an inkling of what you were getting at partway through writing this reply - do you mean that if you enjoy modern art but say you dont know much (factually, technically and contextually?) about it, you're wrong, because you know it through your enjoyment? fine, that's one opinion, but i don't see the value in you labelling those people as "mistaken".
context can make things much more enjoyable. until a few months ago i would have said that slint were a very influential band, and that they had some good bits in their songs. ive been at festivals they've played at and not bothered to see them. if everyone around the world was constantly going on about them, i might ask why they cared so much.
a few months ago they rereleased spiderland and did a load of press and released a documentary. some of the stuff in the press interested me so i watched the documentary, and it completely changed how i felt about the band. essentially, knowing that they were a bunch of really weird teenagers when they made spiderland made me hear the songs completely differently to how i imagined them as dour beardy men, and now that record has a completely different life for me, i play their riffs on my guitar, listen to them when im running and paid to go see them live and they move me.
think an equivalent to this would be georgiabeth's post at 12:31 - i'd be surprised if h_y_g, as a guy that's always struck me as very genuine here, didn't take the time to watch those videos and see if it changed his opinion, and lead to him "getting it"
why should i waste my time pretend-arguing with trolls and people who don't even like beyoncé?
i haven't the time or energy and it's not going to achieve anything
i already made quite good points about why people like beyoncé there vvvv
now feel free to make points as to why you don't like her, but, ultimately http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/social/4452903#r8255486
'hes done you there log' thread, and youve added yourself to the list.
just saying that middle class people feel the need to know what it is they're not "getting". When there is nothing for them to "get". Whether or not beyonce is transgressive is immaterial.
how do people go from being not fussed about an act to being a massive fan? it happens all the time, and it's describable as "getting it"
i'm just saying aesthetic dispositions are not some special cultivated knowledge for you to "get".
I probably think I don't like her music because of some singles that I didn't like, but if I properly engage and the music is as good as people rave on about then I would be converted.
she doesn't really phase me though. i don't care about her passionately enough to defend her on the internet. enjoying the overreactions and defensiveness on here though.
but you shouldnt feel you have to respond
• no other performer alive today gives as much as beyoncé does - i don't see how anyone can deny that she is the most professional artist in the music industry and pop culture as a whole
• sixteen years of releasing and writing music that empowers, is an incredibly positive and supportive celebrity
• everything she does is so particularly and methodically planned out yet she makes it look effortless http://tinyurl.com/pwurvwp http://tinyurl.com/n3lo4m9
• starts important conversations re: sexism and racism both actively and also passively via the press, is analysed for being a successful woc, and is supportive of other female, poc and lgbtq artists throughout sectors in the creative industry (independent and little-known artists, designers, directors)
• able to silence her critics with every performance she gives, kills them with kindness
• voice of an angel http://tinyurl.com/o5wy76v
beyoncé is the benchmark for all performers - not just female ones
people who say they don't 'get it' are often very vocal about this because it frustrates them - weird that people are so hesitant to give her the credit she deserves
• acknowledges those that came before her and those that are here now
vocals are on point:
in their entirety, without skipping any of them
her ear knows a cracking track when it hears one
I didn't see this before posting below.
I too am slightly bemused at the way Beyonce's seemingly gone from popstar to demi-goddess in the past couple of years.
probably say her status as the worlds biggest performer was deffo cemented when i am... came out/that tour
I'm just interested in how she's got to the stage where she's worshipped with such fervent reverence. I've noticed a definite ramping up of this in the past few years. The way you feel the need to defend her so passionately is a case in point.
I like Beyoncé (though in true DiS fashion I generally prefer Destiny's Child's output to her solo work). I certainly don't begrudge her any success at all. She's dedicated her life to what she does and is clearly very good at it. I just find the hero worship that goes on around her slightly curious.
Beyonce could just as easily be a Macbook.
I Am... WAS a massive album (probably her last album that sold well on account of the actual songs as opposed to the recent album which was essentially a massive gimmick), but Spears' Circus album debuted with bigger numbers and garnered a lot more attention (cos it's Britney, duh). That's with Beyonce paying for a whole lot of promo too. The next year was Gaga's proper breakout year so for a good 2 years she was undoubtedly the top dog (no point arguing, everyone will remember the CONSTANT articles on her being 'wacky' and 'eccentric' etc.). 4 was pretty much a flop, hardly any memorable singles yet didn't she release near enough every song from the album? Regardless, no one cared about this album. No one.
Between then and November 2013 it was just a sickly stream of articles about Beyonce being uber-nice, really intelligent, a feminist, an amazing role model, an amazing mum, a great example of what hard work can do for you (she works hard but her dad basically gave her a leg up the whole way, he was one of the top boys at the Grammy's ffs). I used to like Beyonce but has anyone watched the video of her on Oprah? It's embarrassing, Oprah calls her 'mistress of the universe' or some shit. What does that even mean?
Now, on her recent album which was a resounding success, yes. That success though was not down to the songs or her talent, but down to the fact it was released in the way it was. EVERYONE was talking about it (so when people were saying it was released without promo, that was the perfect kinda promo). So it was down to a good plan, a good team and her name. Rihanna could have done the same thing, Britney could have done the same thing, Katy Perry could have done the same thing, it would have done very well regardless of who it was. She would have paid a lot of money to also ensure that her album/albums were the main/only ones on display on the iTunes store, which would also have given it a massive boost. The sales slowed down big time after that first week btw, again it was the publicity it received that made it look like some groundbreaking album. Eminem and Justin T both outsold it without relying on such a gimmick (though I know we're talking about female artists here so I won't go there).
Anyway, in terms of her being this great role model and an amazing nice person with great morals. She photoshops pics of herself to look slimmer, wears animal fur and then looked flustered when she got called out for it, and has consistently used her daughter to sell her shit along with her husband. It's just a bit lame.
But yeah right now she's the biggest female artist, I don't think it'll be for long though, the moment something new and shiny comes along she'll be discarded (she's old news as it is).
stop comparing female artists to each other, when they all put of completely different music, and have completely different brands (beyoncé: the performer, rihanna: i don't give a fuck fuck you i'm me, britney: i'm just britney bitch you know me i've grown up in the public eye, katy perry: thats so gay lets party retro vintage ooh memes yay lets take a moment to be serious tho)
actually worried that people feel the need to defend themselves for not liking beyoncé - you're not even the minority, plenty of people don't care for her at all they just don't say anything
nobody actually cares that you don't like her, but everyone who likes beyonce has actual, legitimate valid reasons to regardless and is very vocal about it
beyoncé fans are very vocal so people feel the need to wear 'i don't get beyoncé' as a badge of honour
But my main recollection of Beyoncé was she seemed to be one of the first big 'pop' acts that Indie kids seem to feel it was okay to openly like.
Although, that did start with Take That to a degree, for Beyoncé it felt like there was an extra layer at work, like people weren't just liking her they were also admitting that she wasn't mainly part of a marketing machine.
there's no reasoning with them despite any amount of evidence that their devotion might be misplaced.
She became the biggest performer with I Am... and I disagreed. I then gave you a detailed post, of which you have failed to address any of the points that paint your beloved Beyonce in a less than perfect light.
I liked Beyonce once, long ago. It's the saccharine perception of her that's grating when she contradicts a lot of what makes up said perception.
But shrug it off as me hating if you like, I don't mind.
is that what you wanted?
Comfortable middle class upbringing: tick.
Financially well off: tick.
Married to a man even more financially well off: tick.
Votes Republican: tick.
Physically quite attractive (and has used this to their advantage): tick
Have 'branded' themselves with their husband's name (literally in Beyonce's case): tick.
Claims to be a feminist: tick.
her name is knowles-carter and so is his
it was for about three years lol
would be nice if he had taken her name though
might possibly be able to vote in america, not sure
and I saw the real you
Obviously the people who don't like Beyonce are the ones who have to explain themselves.
are you a newbie or a name-changer?
Thanks. I'm a newbie, longtime lurker. There was a thread the other week which suggested it takes 6 months to be accepted, so I decided to get a foot in the door for when there's a thread where I need to wade in and set the world to rights.
there's been an influx of newbies recently. I welcome you all.
And tbf, they're totally right.
Drop the bass, mayne, the bass get lower
Radio say, "Speed it up, " I just go slower
High like treble, puffin' on them mids
The man ain't ever seen a booty like this
And why you think you keep my name rollin' off the tongue?
Cause when you wanna smash, I just write another one
I sneezed on the beat and the beat got sicker
Yoncé all on his mouth like liquor [×4]
Like, like liquor, like, like, like liquor
Yoncé all on his mouth like liquor [×3]
Like, like liquor, like, like, like liquor
I liked the gig where she professionally and methodically fell down the stairs.
Some refer to Beyonce as "queen", some call herself and Sean Carter "royalty". Are we to infer that the majority would like to see the existing royal family replaced with the Knowles-Carters? If so what would this entail?
loads of bob dylans just seem like throwaway things people said once and didn't actually mean
nobody needs to be both 'The crown prince of folk music' AND 'The crown prince of folk'
The poet of his generation 
Prophet of his generation 
Prophet of his age 
Prophet of 1965 
Voice of a generation 
Prophet of abstraction 
Prophet of the Sixties 
Prophet of Profit 
Prophet of the new consciousness 
Prophet of protest
are Bob Dylan and Missy Elliott.
is better than the last.
Mods - pull your fingers out and welcome the newbies, yeah?
Again, pretty lurky for a while and now slowly making a bit more noise..
and dont you see it aint cool?
of albums you like and albums my dad likes.
Must be missing something. Singles are top, but the rest of it apart from Flaws and All didn't really click for me.
Edit: Just had a look on Wikipedia and there seems to be 2 fairly different versions of this? Could deffo see this working as a shorter record.
reject the longer versions as false
Got a shitload of painting to do this week so that's always a good excuse, plus it's someone the missus and I agree on :)
but she's an incredible performer, she's strong , powerful and charismatic.
It's pretty easy to see why people admire her.
does she even lift?
obviously because she's had lots of money thrown at marketing her
why do so many people like the arctic monkeys
why do so many people like u2
why do so many people like arcade fire
why does meths like the beatles
but making an artist more visible and accessible means they'll have more fans
why does sean like paramore so much that he feels obliged to write the biggest article DiS has ever published on them?
and a huge proportion of critics will archly snap that if you hate Paramore you hate the Great God of Pop Music, because they Are Pop
to be fair, they do sound like a Big Pop Band, and their last album, while in toto an experience not unlike eating an entire sweet rack, had some cracking singles & album tracks
that there's industry push and market forces at work in pop is without question but I think that jejune and cliched this point is, it can never be fully subtracted from the equation. witness Marina (and her Diamonds) whose second album didn't get half the push that that of her friend Charli XCX (or Charli 100 as I think of her) did, despite being, imo, a better pop record
not going to talk about Beyonce as she's so totemic, so representative of things bigger than either her or her business interests
*something about 'art' and 'pop'
i find it easier not to nowadays
in their defence
quite impressively so
They've gone full pop now.
"she's so totemic, so representative of things bigger than either her or her business interests"
sounds like you love her
who is no doubt a fantastic role model for many.
For some reason she leaves me absolutely cold however- i find her music repetitive and dim- and a bit like the OP, have often wonddered if it's me who's dim when I don't get it and millions of other people do.
and it's not me being all silly and indie because that's not me at all. I just find her cringeworthy to watch and grating to listen to.
I like alphabeat though, so let's bear that in mind when fixing me with any kind of level of judgment.
They seemed a bit simple in a sweet way
but FACSINATOIN is one of thebest songs ever (although I do get the intro mixed up with Modern Love now and again ).
only ever found in real life among Young Republicans members at a recruitment drive. Very sinister
because she's one of the few people who are indivisible.
Like, I don't know what she's REALLY like as a person away from the music, and the relationship with Jay-Z and the photos and stuff, but I find it really interesting who she's probably the world's first person who's a true 360 degree brand/product. Or maybe it's 720 degree if you include Jay-Z, or 1080 degree if you include Blue Ivy. EVERYTHING has to work towards the same aim - maintaining the product, which is herself.
Part of me even thinks that the tolerance/sanction of Jay'Z's affairs are all part of the grand plan, establishing a narrative and retaining control of her life.
and I've never liked any of her ballads, but it's not a big deal or anything.
probably need to listen to her albums, idk. the last two are supposed to be pretty good according to white guys rating albums, what about the older stuff? Destiny's Child?
serious request for guidance on non-singles Beyonce.
why don't you just shut up
h_y_g suddenly elevating himself to "classic troll" status, or CG's panicked attempts at joining in halfway through
fairly beyonce neutral, if I had to pick a side I would say broadly pro mainly because of zane lowe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2oqtnc9Gac
i texted 'zane why do you hate beyonce so much' into the ask zane anything thing that was on radio 1 the other day
did it get asked?
but she is undoubtedly an incredible dancer/singer/performer and role model for a lot of people. find it weird that this got so many more bites than any other 'Radiohead/NMH/kanye/artist-far-more-regularly-mentioned-than-beyonce-on-DiS' ever gets though
Seems like being worth almost a billion dollars or whatever she could be doing a lot more to make the world a not shit place than she does.
The model she seems to be setting is embracing commercialism, marriage/traditional family structures, overly looks focused too.
No difference between her and all the other pop stars. Don't hate her, but can see why it gets people's goat.
no one trolls like dd and gb have in this thread
open your eyes
but every single time i make a serious comment relating to blatant biogtry or ignorance i'm told i'm trolling
fuck off, all of you
Have we reached peak troll?
There is no longer any discernible difference between trolling and not trolling.
popping in to tell someone, who's replying to someone else at their specific request, that you haven't bothered to read their reply, doesn't seem like not trolling.
as well as the fact that i was saying most of her music isn't transgressive, and not that she's not transgressive
Turn that cherry out
And why is it on the Social Board?
did consider a move to the music board but it was a bit late for it to really be funny
if you move it now it will be hilarious.
reckon we can still get a few people going full LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE if we leave it here
she's an icon
And then I saw her live. Fuck me, she's just incredible. The whole package: she can really sing, she can really dance, she's puts on a good show and her last album was genuinely brilliant.
Bear in mind that I was a massive fan of Destiny's Child and it has taken me nearly 15 years of Beyonce doing solo stuff to "get" the appeal.
and wander off twiddling his moustache?
Broke to 200 mark with two short (and not even very controversial) sentences.
Why do people think of Beyonce as a beacon of feminism?
Her lyrics are one thing, but surely it's all part of a rebranding of a sexist pop music industry as feminist (the industry still policies women's bodies, it still has overt control over Beyonces music, image and performances) which is massively reductive to the feminist cause?
Answers on a postcard please.
but it's applicable here
"selfies are a disabling of the process of external gaze imo. they can of course be co-opted (as can any form of expression) and used as a means for women to exploit themselves for others' benefit but the effect from what i can largely tell is to change object to subject, which is surely ideal"
Is the expected reward for either Beyonce or someone taking a selfie, I think the fact she's doing it as part of a commercial sphere dilutes how much she's exploiting/branding herself for her own benefit on a feminist level (and I wonder how much of it is really on her terms) - to put it bluntly as someone on that forum did, it's all means of production basically. And it just furthers the same old body perceptions and image focus that made the industry sexist in the first place.
mass pop culture is problematic, of course, as with any industry that subsists through the creation of brands, but there can be benefits that (partially at least) transcend this, if only by subverting the very brandedness, the elitism & control of the whole operation & extending into the personal, the democratic, the demand side
I think her music, image, philosophy, commercialism, relative lack of philantropy compared to her net worth demonstrate a very different image of someone saying a black woman can make money in an exploitative capitalist industry, rather than seeking to change that industry for the better.
and they sincerely believe this, then she does
this could change of course
I think positivity in this instance runs very close to tacit support of an ultimately shit situation
then all fucking power to Beyonce
She has such influence and affluence that without at least attempting real change, Beyonce will always be a simply corporate hyper real image of consumerist culture rebranded as feminism and as such a reductive and harmfull sedative.
of course she is corporate and commercial and a product and a brand and a moneyspinner and a Great Capitalist Success Story. those are the initial terms of the Beyonce discussion; they are assumed. the question is whether she is also anything more than this, and whether her fans are understanding of the game being played with Their Loyalty (which Demands)
It's static and redundant, it sets up people to be inspired by the same things that left them in need of inspiration, surely.
Consumer culture, yes - to an extent. But a lot of this is the second-hand media that parasitically feasts on consumer culture. Beyonce herself is a performer, a songwriter. To an extent, her image is coopted and transmitted in body-negative, race-negative ways, but not by her - by those who would choose to frame her in a certain way in order to provoke people into insecurely parting with cash. I highly doubt she frames herself in such ways. We need a more informed voice here, though.
if misogyny is a powerful antidepressant then I'm all for it
then let's hit Selfridges, pardner
Looks like someone feels threatened by her talent and influence as a woman of colour.
I don't know who I am any more.
the Belgian nuclear dangerzone of Beveren, there was sod all else to do an a huge tv screen in my bedroom, and I was a bit mesmerized by 'Bootylicious' which was out at the time, and so I spent a lot of the time transfixed and doing my own version of the dancing (like all the other peeps in it)
PS Im mildly in favour of Beyoncé, but in my eyes she aint no Aretha
i mean, i really like beyonce but i prefer david bowie
I was just using the opportunity to put someone who I have thought was utterly fantastic onto a pedestal, because of her fitting (sort of) the demographic that has been discussed as being of some import for some aspects of like or dislike upthread.
(also being old, much of my opinion/taste forming was done in the past, hence I have different touchstone references)
I see Tom Cruise. Every word produced by a team of incredibly well paid publicists and marketers. Every gesture, movement and tilt of the head constructed in a lab to project what thousands of hours of polling has determined to be 'sympathetic' or 'empowered' or 'accessible'. A soulless void. An advert with clothes on, more product than person.
To paraphrase American Psycho: 'There is an idea of a Beyonce; some kind of abstraction. But there is no real me: only an entity, something illusory. And though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable... I simply am not there.
except for the first line swapping 'Patrick Bateman' for 'Beyonce'.
not sure if she's one created by aliens or not though. Maybe.
behind the eyes, which is a sad thing to see in anybody, nevermind somebody who ostensibly ought to 'have it all'.
Like, I think she's evil. Or an alien. Or possessed by the devil. I don't think most pop singers or celebrities are evil, just Beyonce and Tom Cruise.
for a few weeks in about 24 hours, so I'm sitting on my clangers for now, you'll be pleased to hear. 4.54pm tomorrow, on the other hand.....
beyond that, stumped
UniPo is pretty good.
what is wrong with you? are you jealous that other people are getting enjoyment and empowerment from someone that doesn't give you joy or inspiration?
you're all definitely either misogynists, dealing with internal misogyny and insecure about your own success. also all probs racists thanks bye
beyhive, we flawless http://37.media.tumblr.com/d39a8c869e66480b74786d9690c9636f/tumblr_nauefoxpop1qh9nffo1_500.gif
rfware is a sicko too something going on with you that you should address woah all of capitalisms problems are on beyonce now
sexist much???? where the being sick emoji
worth half a billion haha and she gives millions to charity
and who knows what else but dissers love to talk about things they know nothing about because 1. not very smart. 2 big egos from being white middle class bozos. 3. psychopaths. 4. out of touch with the real world. 5. #londonindiebubble. 6. all the bad isms
BOWDOWNBITCHES http://i.imgur.com/E5gAKP7.jpg 😙
One of you is really good though
fluffybum = GeorgiaBeth alt account, nearly succeeds in breaking DiS about once a month
Might start a Foppyish appreciation thread though
if ever there was a thread to be outed in it was a beyonce one anyway
p.s. i'm not fluffybum thanks
and the hilarious overreaction to someone just saying "I don't get it".
I mean reading the thread you'd have assumed he'd said "I don't get it, and everyone who does is clearly a child molester who longs for the return of hitler" or something
a ludicrous overreaction to a mildly stated opinion on a pop act on DiS
this seems stupid now
he said WDPGI
if it's not completely equivalent it's barely stronger, shirley?
backed up by his subsequent non-appearance
it got the response it wanted, though
he just literally can't stand them.
latter is the provocation though
but it wasn't like "why do people like B, she's terrible"
it was "why do people like B, I don't get it". So mild, so careful to emphasise it was just his personal feelings, yanno?
I would say, its because
a) she seems to be a very good singer
b) she seems to be a very good dancer
c) she seems to be very attractive
d) she seems to have a desirable body with lots of curves
e) she sang a song that had lyrics about being an independent woman
f) she seems to be nice in that she was supportive of Taylor Swift after someone criticised Swift for some reason
g) she seems to have made a rather extreme video with her wobbling her bits in a way that suprises people brought up a generation ago (Mrs knees showed m this, I was taken aback, I was ready for bootylicious when it came out, but this seemed to have abandoned any pretence.
I was really not sure where to look at all
PS this is the first time that I have linked to it on my computer and only the 2nd time I've viewed it.
I am aware that there is a discussion that involves white older males being made to feel uncomfortable by 'a black woman's power' in such videos, but I am pretty certain that I feel more uncomfortable by the incongruity of incorporating distracting sexual imagery onto 'light entertainment and vocals and a song, that seem to be a bit incongruous to me. Im sure they may be more pertinent to most people, but all the same, I just feel that the main reason is to sell more product.
:( But please don't worry about my argument....its just that of a sad confused old man who shouts at the television :D
about why she is a force for feminism, and how she is a good example (I'm sure she possibly is) its just that Im cynical about what aspects of her body of work attract the most hits.
Im really confused over this one (having seen all the discussion up thread) I normally feel I should (butt out) and I know that I am 'just a man' ......but I am horrified by modern day societies overwhelming fetischisation of visual images......I have never 'traded in' any gf, for a 'better' looking one, so I feel that I should be allowed a critical voice in the debate.
Beyoncé may be black (nearly) and may be a woman (overwhelmingly), but although that may traditionally mean that she does not have 'privilage' Beyoncé most demonstrably DOES have enormous privilege and influence.
If we take say 'Aretha' who I mentioned before, but apparently that is 'not relevant', then we see someone who only had her privilege from having the second most beautiful voice of anyone who ever lived, but it wasn't just because she had a lovely voice that 'fitted' into an industry, it was because of the way she expressed her voice. The lyrics she sang genuinely DID make a difference and inspire and were an anthem......even me, a pre-teen white boy, without many friends used to sing her song, and dance to her, I used to think about my mum as well, in terms of R.E.S.P.E.C.T. and how it was great that I thought she was worthy of it even if society did basically just dismiss her as a slutty single mother.........
SO, sorry DD, I defer to you too much sometimes, you were wrong to dismiss my mentioning Aretha.......this thread had already discussed Beyoncé being black, a woman and feminism, so my feeling that Aretha had more impact on feminism or respect for women, is a perfectly valid contribution, even If I am only a man.
Your comparison with Aretha was not dismissed as invalid, rather it was suggested that there was no need to make a comparison with anyone else because it isn't important whether or not you like someone.
but I suppose I was attaching more meaning to it, because it is not as if 'unimportance' of harmless comments is rigorously routinely pointed out elsewhere in this thread....I dunno, maybe I'm paranoid?
(I probably AM quite paranoid and DO worry about stuff too much.........so yeah there was no need for me to make a comparison......:( ........Im still shit aren't I? )
Getting a response in a thread this size is something of a lottery.
But you can't deny other people their heroes. I give less of a ashit about the socio economic analysis and more about the fact that I find het dancing clunky and her music not meaningful to me.
I find the tunes annoying, but maybe now I've read this thread I'll try a bit harder with it.
could eventually, given time, overtake b'day deluxe as my all time favourite.
basically i love it all. no angel, rocket and jealous are the ones i go back to more than others without listening to the whole album. no track is worth skipping (probably say xo is the weakest, dunno why).
blue makes me cry, as does heaven (because i read it as a song to the child she miscarried - 'i fought for you, the hardest/it made me the strongest')
i'd love to see blow as a single (more cunnilingus references in popular music!!!!! #feminism #likelikeliquor) but pretty hurts and ***flawless are the purpose-built #anthems.
best video is no angel
don't like the frank ocean one that much, just a bit zzzz...
really like xo
i just remembered how good the kanye west remix of crazy in love is <3
Beyoncé™ sings like the member of the choir who no one likes trying to show off, but the only people Beyoncé™ is showing off to are her corporate sponsors. No matter how many GIFs you make of Beyoncé™, you will never manage to make one of her being sincere.
but I can imagine the comments.
lkess ismore though, Bey, yeah?
her skin might stand the chance of a better future if it could breathe underneath that tonne of slap
yeah, imagine wearing stage and camera ready makeup most of your life poor bey :(
but everyone looks shit if you shine a massive bright light on their face and don't photoshop the results
rather than a 'look at this misogyny' way. So good for you pal
I'd like to avoid posting links in a misogynist way so it would be useful to know.
i know you're being sardonic cos that's your 'thing' but whatever. Seems to me like his intention in posting it was to be like 'look at these photos of beyonce. She looks ugly!' which as you know jacques_le_biscuit is a misogynist thing to do.
wait, no. i AM smarter than you guys.
I really do
he posted it in a thread he'd made about why he doesn't get why people like her, I don't think he meant it like that because he usually seems like a kind person in his other posts to me, but I could see why someone could think he was being mean
obviously his intentions are mean spirited but so many dayshifters are obsessed with sly digs and being passive aggressive and stuff so lets just blame it on the culture yeah
Similarly, the media obsession with Beyonces looks is misogynistic and she's complicit in that culture.
yeah i'm completely aware that petty posters create the culture but lets blame it on the culture, yeah?
unless there genuinely are a vast majority of posters who are blissfully unaware of their sly digging, and an oppressed tiny minority who are honestly feeling sly dug at. I care for and respect you a lot, so I hesitate to say anything that might upset you, but, as an objective bystander, this whole 'sly digs' thing seems to be brought up as a shield and sword to counter every argument or proposition that you don't agree with, and it's pretty aggressive in its own right. There are to my knowledge a handful of other users who ritually back you up your claims on this (dd, s_h, dots.) But from what I can see the overwhelming majority of those remaining are a bit baffled as to where you're going with this vendetta stuff. And people have started to parody you a bit because of this which I don't think is nice or fair.
(I am sorry, I find beyonce really a bit shit, but I swear hand on heart I am not saying it to have a dig at you. I just don't like her music or find her at all engaging.)
had a pretty fun time trying to guess who it was aimed it
although I suspect you are one of the people she means when she talks about sly digs. Do you ever stop for breath? :D
Anyway, I'm still confused by what you mean. I think I've been perfectly frank with my post. Not calling anyone out, but in making a pretty honest observation I'm not afraid to state who I see to be the other people who agree with her viewpoint on the sly digging.
I fucking honestly don't have the slightest clue what is happening in this thread, hand on my very heart
(it *has* been a slow afternoon, I'll admit that)
i'm really embarrassed that you replied to that and have read this much into things
oh dear, sorry
the 'sly digs' isn't about sly digs at me, nor is it about beyonce
without context. (sory if I've missed an explanatory thread?) And in the absence of that, forgive the rest of the world for thinking you're baying at the moon a bit.
You're in sooo much trouble!
at the end but I'll let him off this time. Nice to know I have a 'thing' though.
1) nobody cares, piss off
2) nobody's skin looks good in l'oreal foundation (seriously. they're cake city)
3) whoever did that makeup did it with the intention of it being studio lit and showing up on her skin and being enhanced in post, hence why it looks unblended and a bit stark and just generally applied really bad
also, yeah, lets see your faces caked in makeup that looks terrible on your skin type/shows your skin texture taken with very expensive hd equipment
where she talked at length about her skin problems
It is however pretty poor form that she posts touched up photos to instagram claiming to be candid. The whole photoshopped thigh gap thing etc is pretty insidious.
It's bad enough for body image in publications where everybody knows photoshop is being heavily used. Touching up things which are supposedly when you are just out of bed, lounging around the house is underhanded and not cool.
for you have dare speaketh against the Bey
her photos her choice, though
where is she explicitly saying 'this is 100% me, candid and untouched?'???
you can't just blame it on her - what about the culture and her team who are responsible for her image and publishing the photos?
Yes it is, and in my opinion a poor one.
Nowhere, it's entirely implied (which is why I chose to call it insidious)
Maybe, who knows. It's all give and take though, if her achievements are all her, so are her failures.
I have nothing against beyonce. It just strikes me as odd given the feminist icon she has become to allow such a culture to influence her decisions. But hey, nobody's perfect.
The world has gone utterly fucking insane.
THIS IS SPARTA!
It's the trolling equivalent of a circle-jerk
this is very good
and get it over with, thanks.
BEEVE-once more like. Amirite?
Baby bumps do change size and shape from day to day. But I still think Beyonce faked the pregnancy and that Solange carried Ivy though. AND I totally think that Beyonce is older than she claims, and that Solange is her bio-daughter that she had when she was like 14 but the Knowles lied about Beyonce's age and raised her and Solange as sisters. So Beyonce is actually passing off her grand daughter as her child!
i still don't get why people like Beyonce so much
re-reading this i've re-noticed that bit where still_here infers that h_y_g is writing in a misogynist tone just from a URL he posted
You can just infer it from his normal posting style! ;-)
still_here just wading in to let everyone know in plain language he thinks he's really clever.
georgia and all her crew are all amazing xx
Lots of people have lots of opinions on Beyoncé huh?
time eh what a weird thing
What a gent.
and the posts below...I had never noticed his name wasn't Flinton_Stack
(I assume that's from Father Ted.)
don't really have any strong opinions either way though
If you didn't 'get' this thread then you just didn't 'get' DiS.