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stupid fucking cunt
What an arsehole.
I thought the last person who gave a shit about anything Henry Rollins said died about 20 years ago
he's such a fucking wank
the essay is kind of good. some things he says are good. some things are bad
finding it increasingly hard to feel annoyed at stuff like this though, because i've started thinking variations on "what if rollins is really depressed?". like, idk if this isn't just his way of "figuring shit out". i also don't know if he was just edited in a bad way, or he just phrased it badly or whatever
it's weird that he's ended up at the same thoughts most people have when they are twelve though
maybe ticket sales are bad for his upcoming tour so he's reaching out for the arsehole demographic
this is my problem with shit like this, idk why he's said it or what his thought process was
What a total fucking moron.
but it is a pretty massively flawed angle to see the human experience from. I can't feel angry with him though. I kind of feel like his underlying message is a positive one. He's just chosen an unbelievably cack-handed and crass way of expressing himself, and clearly not given the issue enough thought.
I feel like I've probably made this point a thousand times on this site, but the idea that suicide can ever be selfish takes literally seconds of analysis to dismiss out of hand.
Of complete mechanic rationality, that sort of weird Randian aggressive self determination that lacks any empathy whatsoever, which is so depressing to live around in society.
But I can't believe how thoughtless he has been, especially when talking about his children, particularly since they're probably having enough of a time of it already.
For anyone who thinks that suicide is a selfish act, should maybe realise living with depression day in, day out, is a living hell and perhaps those who take their own life think their children would be better off without them being alive.
(apologies in advance for any awkward language below - hopefully the point I'm trying to make is relatively clear)
for those of us who haven't suffered from depression it's very difficult to understand and empathise with the kinds of emotions those who do or have suffered from it go through. Although my dad suffered from depression when I was younger and other people I know have it/have had it, I didn't really gain any real understanding of the difference between that and just being "a bit down" until I read my brother's blog last year (he_tu of this parish for those who've been around for a while), which explained very well the kind of emotions he is going through - something I really didn't really appreciate until he wrote it down.
I think the message about what depression really is is very slowly seeping into the public consciousness, but it's going to take a long time before the majority really appreciate what it is, especially given that we're going through a period where people off work with depression are cited by the government and media as 'skivers'.
Until the message does get through, there's going to be a lot of relatively clear thinking people who don't actually understand the nature of depression trying to understand the actions of depressed people through their own frame of reference at which point those actions don't make sense and could appear 'selfish'. It's only when you understand the underlying issues that it's possible to rationalise that kind of behaviour and sadly a large proportion of people don't understand them.
and depression can be compounded by anxiety, stress, drugs and alcohol problems and then just general crap stuff happening in your life like relationships breaking down or difficulties at work.
when I was quite depressed I remember my thought process at one point being: I wish my parents were already dead so that I could be too. no thoughts about how it might really upset anyone else like my sisters and my friends.
Fame, money and success can accelerate a lot depression and suicidal thoughts, because when you are not having a bad time in life and you're doing well, you cannot explain why you have constant feelings of dread every time you wake up in the morning. Almost like there's even more pressure to be happy. I don't know how to articulate this very well, but sometimes it's worse when you can't explain why you're feeling a certain way, and it's easier to justify if there's something to pinpoint the depression i.e. job loss, failed relationship etc.
Depression can feel worst when good things are going on in your life because if your still getting those feelings then it's like 'I can't even feel happy when things are good' or ' I miss out on the good moments in life and if I can't feel happy then...'
A guy that had played the clown and made people smile for so many years was in the first stages of Parkinson's disease. If you already feel like you're not worthy of anything then imagine feeling even more of a burden to those around you having an illness like Parkinson's disease.
My problems got a lot worse when I'd gotten myself to a point when I could relax a little and didn't have anything to affix my (largely pointless) worries to. That's when I really started to panic as I felt that trying to explain that paradox to someone would be impossible which was the start of a pretty destructive cycle(mostly better now thank goodness)...
It's an illness I find that, when you least expect it, comes crawling back.
I do, especially after trying to find some help which I would urge anyone to do who feels that they should just soldier on with what they think might be a problem.
I'm only really just getting to grips with it now (I have co-morbid anxiety & depression I/they think) but the cyclical nature of it is actually something that I take comfort in. When I'm in the middle of it I know it'll improve with some rigid practice of a few things. CBT for the win!
There are people in my life that I love more than my own life and who suffer formthis and I feel utterly he;lpless and I also think I maybe make them even more poorly because I'm so shit and crap and worry and smother and get everything wrong.
So the hardest thing for me to do really was pluck up the courage to admit that I was losing my grip on reality and feeling so desolate and that I had periodically done so pretty much my whole life. I'm lucky enough to have an amazing wife who listened, tried to understand as best she could and got me into therapy (she literally booked it up and I can't thank her enough for it). A combination of SSRIs to give me a platform to embrace it and the CBT itself is really what's helped.
I'd suggest to a friend who was experiencing something similar that no matter how hopeless things are, no-one can feel the same emotion forever and that there are so many examples of people who have managed recoveries and adopted successful coping strategies. It is an inherently selfish thing and the self loathing that comes from that can create a real barrier between yourself and those that try to help you, coupled with a "they'll never understand" mentality, so don't kick yourself if you feel you like can't offer all the support you want to - it's for professionals to suggest the way to feeling better.
If you know anyone who you think could use some help, then honestly, pick up CBT for Dummies. I couldn't have connected with the therapy with just the book but there's some incredibly helpful stuff in there.
Sorry for the ramble, I just like to let people know where I can that there is definitely some hope to be found :D
That easn't a ramble, it was really lovely and honest, i am so glad that you are feeling so much better. your wife sounds great :) You two are very lucky to have each other.
I might buy that book.
It should be said that everybody's going to be different and I definitely don't want to oversimplify this stuff as mentioned below, hence professional insight is really the best thing, but it might help a little. The concepts (in particular the bit at the bgeinning on spotting errors in your thinking) certainly balanced me out a bit.
I tend to push everyone away and hide in my room. I remember when i was particularly going through a bad time of it, my boyfriend at the time just couldn't understand what I had to be depressed about & chucked me. The positive thing is you sure as hell find out who really cares about you and who gives up at the first hurdle.
Probably a testament to how important it is to spread more understanding of these things (as well as how much of a melt he seems to have been). Sometimes people just can't reach you, regardless of their own logic on the matter.
I hope that with each generation a little more acceptance comes and I think that that is probably the case. RW's death in particular seems to have stimulated a *lot* of healthy public debate.
Feel better anyhow and remember if it comes again it won't last forever ",
I think this is quite normal. it is very hard for the people who love andc care for a depressed person though. I spent most of my childhood havonig a horrific time trying to understand why a family member shuit me out. And I'm going through it in adult life too- but at least as an adult i can choose how much I'm able to take, or not. And like many other people, I choose to take it because there are some people that are better to have in your life whatever might be wrong with them. It is so hard for everybody involved tohugh, but always worse for the person who is depressed. THis is making me want to ring my family :( x
I don't doubt that the majority of people off work with depression are off for 100% genuine reasons. Having said that I have worked with numerous colleagues in retail/office work who have had enough of work or been facing discipinary action for whatever reason and brushed it off with an "I'll just go to the doctors and get a sicky note." More often than not the sick note is for depression/back pain/stress, presumably because it is easier to fake than a broken leg...
Obviously their blasé attitude could be a front for deeper feelings and all cases are different but my gut reaction is that it's an abuse of the system. And one which unfortunately gives rise and credence to the 'skivers' comments from people who know what an "honest day's work" looks like...
despite always being outspoken and fairly categorical in expressing stuff, i've never found anything he's said before to be objectionable
so this is pretty shite and disappointing
He's probably lost people in his life through suicide and decided to take it really bitterly. His viewpoint is not to be condoned and he shouldn't have a soapbox anyway but this is all probably coming from pain in his life - so its wrong but understandable why he might think that way.
i don't think it mitigates how dangerously ignorant an editorial like this is. maybe the publication is more to blame for not toning down his words a bit
"Almost 40,000 people a year kill themselves in America, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In my opinion, that is 40,000 people who blew it."
i mean, JFC ^
still completely indefensible though
AND I NEVER CARED ABOUT
was lucky that all my friends were posting really nice and supportive stuff to each other last week.
it's really weird, like confused and contradictory, almost stream of consciousness rambling, one paragraph going on about the extreme isolation and uniqueness of depression, the next saying how he has feelings of disdain for suicide victims, the next saying how he has to respect their decision.
my pop psychologist opinion is that he's spelling out his own strategy of how he deals with his issues (he's had depession right?) , demonising suicide victims as a way to put up barriers to where his own thoughts might take him. (or something, i dunno)
still pretty stupid tho.
but in many cases they're a bit like shitting: if it can at all be helped then don't do it in fucking public.
as Richard Dawkins, Bret Easton Ellis, Ricky Gervais et al.
at which point these people just become plain terrible.
(It's worth watching the whole series of documentaries too; they're good)
from invisible problems. It reads like someone who has never been depressed a day in his life. Depression is very selfish, of course it is but it's not something really just snap out of.
All respect lost for this man.
but because he's never attempted suicide then everyone else who has is a weak asshole
this despite him going on about no two people's experience being exactly the same
Good for him that he didn't discover the true hopelessness of depression. Doesn't make him less of a apathetic douchebag for using his public voice to air this opinion now though.
starts talking about robin williams, bigs him up loads,
talks fairly lucidly about the unique experience of depression and difficulty in understanding someone else's experiences,
slags off suicide victims he has known,
ends with implying he is a proper hard man for not killing himself
I think he tends to need to have a strong opinion one way or the other on things - he's chosen this way and gone in hard.
really? he just comes across a total woody whenever I've heard him talk about anything
and i like his writing generally, but he has a lot of questionable opinions and this one isn't even slightly surprising.
he's a great storyteller, and has had an interesting life, but comes up with some really misguided shit that he drills home as being unquestionable fact.
keep getting the theme from m*a*s*h stuck in my head when I see the thread title
maybe its the media's irresponsibility for chosing to convey nonsense to the wider public
and doesnt most media/interviewers, just meekly record it (rather than challanging the celebrities words, if not to correct the celeb, then at least to get to the exact motivation behind why they said those words?
that Henry Rollins wrote, and that you can read in its entirety
perhaps its just an 'old men say stupid things' thing then?
debunking the whole 'suicide is selfish' myth from every conceivable angle.
.. more articulate and concise that I can be.
I think it's important to remember that mental health can be quite an individual thing, beyond simple universal comparisons. For example: two individuals can end up reacting to the same events very differently, people are equipped with different degrees of coping strategies, there are people who suffer from hormonal or chemical imbalances that weaken them, and so on.
The difficulties that may drive one person to suicidal thoughts may not appear to be commensurate superficially with the severity of the action, but we cannot start making judgements through simplification.
It's not an easy way out. It's a dark and desperate place where one's mind is often incapacitated and one is tearing oneself to bits from the inside out- maybe physically or mentally or both. But the limb that should be able to help you in this situation is paralysed or worse attacking you.
that they saw fit to bury it by putting it in the Science section.
manifestation of his own demons.
Yet I kind of see what he's trying to get at with the YOLO bits- if the life that you are leading isn't worth living, then you might as well start living. If that makes sense.
I don't think I've explained this very well, but you might get to a certain point, a rock bottom, where your usual guidelines have broken down and that can be quite liberating.
It's not a logical thing but it's impossible to argue out of it.
I've tried demolishing my life - quit my job, moved, pushed most of my friends away, raced to the bottom and I can't say it feels good or liberating tbh I feel like I've wasted everything instead. Ah well eh.
Firstly, he probably doesn't give a fuck what you think, and secondly, do you really expect someone from that kind of life to be on the same wavelength?
what kind of life?
Can't really blame people for it though given the frame of mind someone would be in if they were planning to kill themself.
"Fuck suicide. Life isn’t anything but what you make it. For all the people who walked from the grocery store back to their house, only to be met by a robber who shot them in the head for nothing — you gotta hang in there."
Guess who was standing beside his friend then this happened?
What a pussy, being a victim of something he had no control of eh
taken out of context or something. He was eloquent about Kurt Cobain I recall.