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She got shuffled out of proper government a long time ago for being a bit of a chump.
The fact that she's a muslim makes it feel kind of partisan rather than principled.
that's harsh, even for you.
it's a bit late for a protest resignation, surely? Feels like a Clare Short rather than a Robin Cook.
Think even many people who usually side with Israel on these-sorts-of-things are beginning to get a bit alarmed by the relentlessness of the attacks and the mounting death toll. Takes a while for that sort of traction to be generated.
Claire Short resigned over a technicality over the war in Iraq in spite of having voted in favour of it in the Commons (as is my recollection - happy to have it refuted). Not sure this is in any way comparable.
and was in a position of considerable influence, whereas Short's resignation came too late and after she'd already undermined her own position, so it's a valid comparison.
(Short got completely outwitted and was done over by Blair tbf. She basically threatened to resign, got talked into coming back on board with various promises which were then broken, and then resigned when she realised she'd been used but by then it was easy for them to portray her as a careerist)
not sure I can handle these conflicting feelings
She's effectively been sidelined for the last two years, and there were heavy rumours that Cameron wanted to sack her at the last reshuffle, but was too worried about the headache she would cause.
Fair play to her for resigning on a matter of principal- though she was in the department that actually made Gov policy on Gaza etc, so I guess that shows just how little influence she actually had.
feels a little bit half hearted and too late.
Also she is an insufferable homophobe and not well liked within the Conservative party - she was chairman when Roger Helmer defected and she was apparently barracked pretty viciously. And then there's the expenses thing...
I mean it's just a list of bad stuff about Warsi, with not a single word to tie it into what the thread's about?
I'm going to do some work now. Maybe do the same and stop being a yappy little pedant?
you ended up on ROYTER'S side tho. think on that.
but I thought the link was obvious and implicit. nvm.
I asked for clarification, you gave it, lovely stuff. Don't see what you've got the hump about tbqh
she hasn't got the level of respect that Cook had and this isn't as much of a 'shock'.
You do love playing devil's advocate.
But a whole lot of it is down to her individual behaviour. The expenses thing coming so late after the rest of them made her toxic, she's been quietly shuffled to the back since then.
we would've known what you were on about.
btw ive got my glockenspiel ready for a drop off if you can get to teh west end about 5:30 or so? i understand that you're a very important man though and possibly not free at that time
Because it's you, I can and will do that today. Where in the west end?
could be persuaded to have a drink at Lowlander with you
Promoted above her intellect and ability because of Cameron's 'women problem' and the Tory party's lack of ethnic diversity, and only retained because of the stink it would have created to remove her - I can't see No10 being that worried by this morning events, especially, as Royter says, when they and their press can paint this as a partisan resignation rather than one of principle.
Quite why she's resigned now, when it looks like Israel are withdrawing, rather than when they were killing hundreds of children to no protest from this government, I don't know.
I can see No10 being more worried by the comments Boris Johnson has been making on the radio this morning, implicitly criticising Cameron's silence over this.
I know she's not an MP but I think being part of foreign policy in this government would be very bad for her local power base, so it's a response to that I would guess.
it's pretty weak
If she was a left-wing politician
If she was a pineapple
If you like Baroness Warsi, getting lost in the change
If you're not into slaughter, if you have half a brain
If you like making peace in Gaza in the dunes on the cape
I'm the love that you've looked for write to me and escape
-She's a bit of a dick
-She is a career politician
-Her position was perhaps already untenable
I still have respect for this one act. So, good on her.
Even if she was on the way out, she has taken charge of it and forced the issue and brought more attention, news coverage and discussion around how it's being handled domestically.
brb, going to consider my life choices.
it's a real Sophie's World.
when you're the lesser of 2 evils?
Good work, knobhead.
He's not getting the benefit of the doubt from me for YEARS
I'm all for taking a pounding but come on...
I'm sorry, everyone.
just LOOK at that axis of awful.
about 'human shields' for weapons caches and Israel's response, but no one wanted to discuss it. I thought it was an interesting question covering both morality and military strategy but no one engaged with it, which was a little disappointing.
There's no conclusive evidence for it, unlike the thousands of situations where Israel has used children as human shields when storming houses.
the question was deliberately apolitical and wasn't about 'taking sides'.
that's pretty... interesting stuff.
Was it: what should Israel's response be to something that there is no conclusive evidence exists?
This may suprise you, marckee, but military secret intelligence services don't always CC you into their emails when they find things out.
and had world opinion against me, and had the best-funded and best-equipped army, intelligence service and secret service in the world, I'd probably make some of that evidence public, you know, so I didn't seem like a complete psychopath who actively enjoyed massacring children.
You sure about that, pal?
The question was: if you know (or strongly suspect) your enemy is using women and children as 'human shields' (horrible phrase), and/or schools and hospitals etc to store weapons caches, what do you do?
Do you blow them up anyway knowing civilians will die but potentially incapacitate your enemy's military capabilities, or do you not bomb the targets, leaving your enemy armed to kill your own citizens? Or do you not drop any bombs and send in the (slightly more accurate) ground troops instead?
This can be disassociated from the whole Israel-Palestine and dealt with in an 'academic' vacuum if you like.
Bombing built up areas of a city shouldn't be necessary to meet that aim. If you assume that this is their aim (which I don't).
I think people underestimate just how dense Gaza and Gaza City are, how penned in the Palestinians are, and how, in a area that is under siege and blockade, defences within and throughout a city are critical. This isn't the UK where we've shifted all our military bases out into the country.
I mean, the war in Gaza was at its root about two different ways of life (and now shrouded in 60 years of history and war which has muddied those waters). A country can't defend itself from another way of life nor can it simply wipe it out with bombs, if a smaller power is fighting for recognition and agency the larger power is then basically fighting to wipe out that idea, an unwinnable aim. So Israel's got to weather the guerilla tactics as much as it puts their own citizens at risk in order to slowly establish more peaceful relations between the two sides because it's the only way to end the stalemate without some sort of genocide.
It does however feed into the whole "Muslims are barbaric" Western mentality, which I don't think the general public have a difficult time swallowing.
without their ignorance opening up a can of worms.
i think he might be mental, who on earth votes for him.
He's very popular.
just comically dim-witted.
and generally had about 50% of votes in his constituency. It's only really increased 17.5k because of a collapse in Labour support rather than a massive surge in his own vote.
But he's been an MP for the same(ish) constituency for 22 years. Even clung on in 1997 and has increased his majority at every election since. Does seem they like him over there.
the local demographics are such that they'd vote for anything wearing a blue rosette or more likely a combination of the two. For all I know about Fabricant he could be one of those MPs who actually works a lot for his constituents on local matters and does have a reasonable personal support.
went round his constituency vox-popping after the Yasmin Alibhai Brown gaffe and almost all of them were like `Ah he shouldn't have said that like but we like him round here`.
Hardly rigorous. I'd doubt many people know who their local MP is to be honest. I've just moved house and I don't know who my new one is actually :)
It was a new constituency, so you can't really work out what his 1992 majority was, but it suggests that it's a seat that a poor representative could lose.
And I guess it's sad her own party couldn't give a fuck about her protest resignation, but tbh I'm just happiest I want have to listen to her free market frothery on Question Time anymore.
I would also wonder how it's taken this long for her to realize she was in the wrong party for good common decency or really any moral obligations towards anything. Maybe this is the first thing that's really effected her. Probably.
Literally crying at my desk.