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I certainly hope England make them pay a heavy price for this. They should be ashamed
Was always going to happen eventually
in actually-doing-all-right-with-the-bat shocker.
Good to see after all the criticism he's had recently.
Pressure was on when he chose to bat first but he's done well. Actually looks like he's enjoying himself for the first time in a while. I expect getting dropped early on helps...
What an absolute find he has been so far. Ridiculously consistent and looks like he's up for making the tough runs.
Be nice if we got to a situation wherein Butler could smash it around for a few overs.
And asked the hitman to remove whoever dropped Stuart Binny
Jordan in, great, but it's Broad who should have made room.
He's probably the most important player in winning us matches as no one gets on a roll like him but he can't do that unless he's fit.
Jordan AND Woakes, not sure at all
Couldn't put up with Stokes batting though, and his bowling was only so-so.
Up around 90mph and aggressive. Thought his bowling was pretty good tbh.
Batting was irremediably shite though.
woefully under-used last test, been really impressed with his bowling this summer. playing four seamers and talk of rotation policies is fucking nonsense when broad and jimmy are getting through 60 overs a game and playing through the series.
he just is
get the shine off this ball/to anything above 300 without another wicket - bump buttler up the order, give him free reign to bosh. can't imagine a better situation for his first test dig.
as can woakes/jordan/broad
there will be boshing
Why did it start on Sunday though? Too odd. Don't like that.
Hope this is the start of better things for him. I'm sure he's gutted not to have made a ton, but my word he'd have taken 95 at the start of the day, especially having chosen to bat.
Made a Graeme Smith hack through leg look like Scarlet Johansson pulling on a stocking at times.
Man, he needed it though, we all did.
Take the time off to regroup and get refreshed for the Ashes next year. Whatever happens the lad needs a rest.
Wish we had at least one aesthete in the top 3 though. #PromoteAli
Already the player in the side least likely to lose his place any time soon. Pretty impressive.
Really hope Ballance gets a double.
Unfortunate for the lad.
in quick succession. I think we need to nip this in the bud right now. IT ISN'T OK.
Still a great session. Need to lose regular wickets anyway or we'll be 800-5 waiting for a declaration. All out for 600 would be ideal.
declare at 5.30 today - try and get a wicket.
Excited to see Buttler have a go.
just realised that I'd assumed all along that Jos Buttler was Saffrican with a name like Jos.
It's short for Joseph.
still advocating making all decisions from the point of view of a very lazy bowler. He's certain England should be batting into the third day from here.
Even when he gets out for 20 it's the most delicious 20 you've ever seen!
Complain about that to ICC council Jadeja you little prick!!!
Hard to build an innings the way he normally would. Always likely to get out cheaply.
Test cricket, lad.
This maybe the only time in the near future that he'll be able to go and play his natural game. Quick fire up to 500 all out and we'll probably have a better chance of winning.
I'd imagine that would be his "natural game" for Test cricket.
I just find it a little ridiculous to expect a guy making his Test debut (and probably very, very nervous) to come in and start hitting it out of the ground. Let him get the scratchy 20 under his belt, then him and Bell can start smashing them around, especially with Woakes, Jordan and Broad to come.
If this is out it's your fault you big drip.
You'll get it when you grow up, I'm sure.
enjoy your creme de menthe
He can spend the rest of his career scrambling for 20 odd runs when we're under the kosh. Pedestrian bowling, flat pitch and actually the right situation to kick on so don't see any reason not to.
also means Jos is probably coming in 30 runs too soon. Still this should be pretty fucking good.
law's an ass
Ludicrous decision to "give the benefit of the doubt" to the batsman. He must have had his fingers at least partly under the ball. Yes, possibly a tiny bit of the ball touched a tiny bit of grass but there's no proof that did happen.
Want Jos to do well but those ones always piss me off.
TMS just mentioned that Buttler asked if the fielder had caught it, he confirmed and he was going to walk off.
Who stopped him?
Told him to wait for the verdict from upstairs.
We should be looking to bat once. No way we're bundling them out for under 225 twice. Should be looking at 600, I reckon.
If we have to go and knock 80 odd runs on the last day so be it.
If England got, say, 550 and bowled India out for 300, they'd probably still want to score another 150 before declaring and rest the bowlers in between.
A 'Why aren't we smashing it everywhere?', 'Why aren't we declaring?', 'Cook has to go' evening?
I realised after your claim that this side could never win a test match you stand to look a bit silly but surely you should want us to always play aggressively. Any captain worth his salt on this pitch would want two stabs at their openers. Just batting to 600 for the sake of it is daft.
I'd rather we didn't play recklessly and get out for 480 when we could make a lot more than that. If I was in India's position now, the last thing I'd want is for us to go on and get 600.
we don't lose rather than give the team the best chance to win. We haven't got Swann any more and Jimmy and Broad are walking wounded so for me if you get to 550 just declare and get stuck into their openers that evening and give yourself as much time as you can.
with English cricket at the moment.
You're right, though. The great sides always declare early.
Nobody cares about that.
I wish I was a Saffer they'd get me.
after spending two days in the field. Difference between 550 and 600 is really immaterial compared to that opportunity.
We always collapse when teams do it to us, but when we're bowling it always seems to just placidly go by without incident.
and a sense of perspective.
and that's 100% what the answer is.
"England should put India in for an hour"
obviously a double bluff.
Why aren't we already smashing it about?
Some people want to declare but I'd be happy if they just chucked the bat about. Maybe i've caught some sort of IPL adhd but come on there's no point in being scared of hitting out now.
What's the rush?
But the urge to level the series is telling me to flash and maybe declare, really try and get an advantage. It's a fairly bold move though.
in the humid air with the new ball against a tired set of opening batsmen, followed by a still fresh spell newish ball in the morning is preferable to fresh batsmen with a whole session with the new ball tomorrow.
it might go off the bat faster then, so we could take that for 8 overs then have 10 overs at them
Pitch not doing much.
Why are we not accelerating the runs?
I understand that Buttler is going to be nervous and wants to keep his place. But Bell needs to get going - that'll help settle Buttler.
I reckon 5:15 before the first hissy fit about how we haven't declared.
The people who aren't dead to joy have won out. Your time has passed Peggy..
Of course I want to see us cracking it about. Just won't cry if we don't.
This is mild indignation.
None of us want to do any work right now.
Live by the sword, die by the sword, India
Just really enjoy it when it comes back to bite them, hate not having referals.
Seeing England score 500 again in a test match is lovely.
Buttler's got his wrists out.
Ol' man Straussy, that's you pegfeet, will be having kittens.
seems more fun that way
and superior opposition.
As in, ever?
Just cost Bell a hundred by pressurising him to play silly shots. Nice one.
is now over a 100
That would have been such a fun century
50 off the next 33.
Wasn't so bad letting him play himself in, was it?
thats dhawan you wanted!
At 1-0 behind in a series, you've got to be aggressive. Put them in for an hour when they're tired after having been in the field all the day, no need to score 610/620 and declare overnight and let them recuperate.
What do you reckon a realistic target is for England on Day 3, get into the lower middle order at least you'd think. 300/7 or 8 would be decent.
Also, who's the new bloke on TMS? Slight northern accent. Told a story about driving Boycs and Harmison back to their hotel last night.
Think he usually gets the budget TMS jobs that no one else fancies.
Turns out he tried to become a quarterback in UK American football after retiring from county cricket. Interesting path...
Was okay when he's not trying to hard to be funny.
did a good Brummie impression - Saafhampton eh? Who'd go there.
Vaughan, Boycott, Tuffers, Dravid and Vic Marks I think as I'm not sure Swanny is around this game.
Judged it right for once.
40 runs too much I'd say
This cricket stuff is fucking easy.
Everyone was clearly waiting for the first shot to be fired.
Cricket threads <3
He's expressing support for victims of a slaughter who he believes, rightly or wrongly, through his religion he has a connection to. He's not made the team wear them or even spoken about it. Pretty small gesture of support to be honest and a very draconian measure.
Thought it was just the generic stopped from wearing them. If the ECB has defended them I concur that it's good.
when two of the biggest nations to play the sport are India and Pakistan, there's a lot of scope for a message to cause a lot of trouble. I don't like the idea of censoring people with political causes they strongly believe in, and it can be a very positive way of promoting a cause, but I can see why the ICC would rather just close off that whole side of things.
See also Argentina's football team with the Las Malvinas banner recently. If sports authorities don't have a blanket ban they'd have to decide what messages might be acceptable or not, which would be an asbolute disaster.
Great that Moeen did it anyway and that the ECB are backing him though.
that just says "killing children is not my cup of tea", and see if they view that as a bit too political.
they can't stop him doing that can they?
and when if they ask him what the armband is for he can just read out a list of the names of the dead civilians
much rather listen to him though than shane fucking warne.
Think it's pretty disgusting of the ICC to ban Moeen Ali from wearing an armband in support of Palestine.
They had a little celebration memorial thing at the beginning of play today for WW1, which despite being pretty mundane is still a political point. It's hypocritical.
Right, on with the cricket. Rahane should be out by now, Ali had him, jammy bugger. Looking good though!
Zimbabwe and South Africa and the like.
now to watch Nas and Beefy punting down the Solent or some other bullshit
should be on 400-7 by now at least
think it's combinations of:
pitch too flat
silly ticket prices so no atmosphere
Still going okay even with him bowling like a drunk like but it does let off some of the pressure.
I thought I'd read he had an injury but no-one else seems to think that...
Thought he was rested or whatever.
Is Finn ever going to get his shit together again?
but he wasn't injured. bit :| anyway
because we'll need to rest Broad and maybe Anderson at some point. they'd probably rather have Plunkett to cover that/
As in, all bowlers can bat a bit these days.
Have to say, it was pretty awesome when the England tail was something like:
Or something. Hilarious times.
Headingley 1993: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/63612.html
or the Oval 1999: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/63844.html
The fuck is Nasser Hussain doing at 7? I know it was probably around his debut but, still...
so the idea was just stick in a bonus proper batsman at 7. Never seemed to do much good.
Ramprakash did most of his batting at no.7. It should have been great. But it was shite.
Bicknell was actually a decent lower order bat
Irani at 7 is part of the '99 tail ffs. Bicknell could bat
test av. 17
Considerably better first class batting and bowling averages than, say, Andrew Flintoff though.
was against some of the worst professional cricketers of all time, though.
umlaut'll smell it out within seconds
Ronnie Irani has better first class batting and bowling averages than Moeen Ali too? No way!
without falling on his arse
he once got a 5-fer and a 50 against India in an ODI, tbf
an absolute rabbit if he was batting 11 in a side with Mullally and Tuffers.
(sent in after the rabbits)
Lose by 83 runs.
For me it's vs South Africa at the Oval 1994 aka Devon's Match.
Genuinely exhilirating to watch. You could feel the red-hot anger through the screen.
Thorpe and Nasser scoring 288 against Australia in 1997 perhaps though? Complete false dawn in lots of ways, but the very start of better times in another. Wasn't much to enjoy of the Ashes in the 90s.
it has to be Atherton and Russell at J'Burg in 1995.
Atherton v Donald. Also the first test I ever went to see.
also Gooch carrying his bat with 154 same series at Headingly
England getting 46 all out...
When Tuffers ripped through them in their second innings. 7/50 or something. The pitch was a fucking bombsite. And, y'know, he'd probably tampered with the ball... but it didn't matter. It just didn't matter. Skittled them out for just over a ton, with Peter `Digger` Martin making his only contribution to the game by taking the catch at Long On to send them all back in the hutch. Match was over by Saturday teatime. Absolutely mugged them off.
The fact that the match was the absolute deadest of rubbers made it all the better. Encapsulated the zeitgeist of English cricket for most the 90's perfectly - the only real joy coming within a context of utmost futility.
If cricket is aiming to be so apolitical
This is really irking me
Great catch from Gaz Baz(llance)
+ Keeping the Indian total low enough
+ Moeen Ali getting 2 wickets
- Overly defensive fielding
- Jordan and Woakes, urgh. Especially Jordan, christ.
there's a bit of cognitive dissonance watching him trott in and put it on a length and then noticing the speedgun saying 88mph though.
looks sooo gentle.
strange from jordan, that spell before the new ball was excellent the he went back to spraying it in his third spell.
But his last spell was utter filth. Every first ball went down the leg side and had no control whatsoever.
Dhoni gone nice and early
They should not enforce the follow on, open with Moeen and Joe Buttler, hit a quickfire 200 and have them batting again by mid afternoon. Easy.
Cook will have to decide whether to enforce the follow-on or not and then be cursed and ridiculed for all eternity whatever he chooses.
this could be fun for a few minutes
If we enforce the follow-on, it gives us nearly two full days to get them out and chase whatever they set. If we set a target, we'll probably have to bat them out of the game first, and end up with not enough time. But we would have fresher bowlers.
Given we're 1-0 down in the series, follow-on is pretty much guaranteed to force a result.
any run-rate under 4 is absolutely unacceptable. should aim to declare at tea, really
but if it takes us a session and a half to get 150 more
Whereas if we bowl again we have five and a half to get them out and chase whatever they can set us. Draw can probably only happen if we choose to bat again.
Almost every captain chooses to bat again regardless of the match situation or what the commentators think they should do. Back-to-back Tests are one of the main factors.
I was only half joking up there. They should aim to add another 200 runs quickly, give the bowlers a rest while further demoralising India. Promote Ali to opener to attack the new ball, and have Buttler come in at 4 to whack it around when it's a bit softer (it's pointless having him at 7 when they need runs quickly).
tends to just result in everyone getting out cheaply and a descent into chaos.
Vital Michelle there...
Score at 3.5 per over for 40 overs puts us 380 in front. Then lash it for 15 overs, get close to 500 in front. 4 and a bit sessions to bowl em out, bowlers raring to go. Job done.
But cue everyone complaining bitterly that we're not going along at 7 an over immediately, as if it's a doddle, whereas the only way we can spoil it is if we get bowled out really cheaply.
425+ is easily enough to get this done and will leave more time but I agree getting them out cheaply lets us start slower with the bat though.
But no captain ever stops there, my guess would be 475. Something to be said for giving the opposition absolutely nothing to play for I suppose, but I'd be delighted if they did stop at 425.
themselves. 380/390 is probably perfect but yeah like you say though no one is ever going to do it.
Gives you the best chance of winning, but also a tiny chance of losing. Imagine being Alastair Cook coming out to face the press when India have somehow chased down 380 with one wicket spare...
What annoys me is all the ex-England captains in the commentary box giving it the biggun about declaring early, as if they ever, ever did it any differently.
but I actually think Cook would get a lot of credit even if we did lose it like that. I think press and fans are both hungry for aggressive captaincy. Probably too hungry.
They'd all be massively wise after the event, saying how naive he was etc etc. One of the many ways in which the England captain can never win.
but the cricket press wouldn't criticise him for declaring with a 380 lead chasing a series as they are. Impossible to prove, and I doubt he'll ever do it, so we'll probably never know, but I think his reputation would actually improve.
Rewind to last summer and when Clarke tried to force the issue to get a win on the last day he was universally praised despite the fact that it looked like it was going to backfire.
Got a lot less praise when he did his best to chicken out of it. The end of that match still makes me cross.
Probably be pretty miffed at the bowlers to be honest.
...that no-one follows on any more but there's not much to be gained here. Good decision - smash a quick 250 on and get rid of them gradually. Job done.
Said if you have a world class spinner 100% follow on otherwise it's just knackered bowling at top end batsmen.
But, sure. Had an overnight rest in this instance but I don't see how Cook would ever have enforced the follow on in this match. Conditions were punishing yesterday.
The next Geraint Jones (blistering start with the bat, poor glovework, painful demise) or the next Matt Prior (inauspicious start with both bat and glove, going on to absolutely dominate with both)? WE'LL SEE.
Forgot that. Don't recall him making loads of runs in his first couple of years (in and out the side weren't he?) but if stats prove me wrong I'll back down...
My recollection is that Prior gradually got better and better and better whereas Jones went the other way... (Jones and Flintoff averaged 100 as a partnership for about 2 summers straight didn't they?)
his batting was never really all that, although he had his moments
Jordan ensured he got a pretty good workout and managed to stop some crazy deliveries.
remember we were 60 ahead in the first innings with seven wickets remaining at Headingley, and we still got thumped. This side is inexperienced enough for that kind of thing to happen.
But with our deep batting lineup, Broad coming in at 10, I'd be astonished if we can't manage 180 at least, which would put us 420 ahead.
400 will be far too many to chase.
Bollocks to them
turning down the opportunity to get a century for the good of the team and cementing his place back in everyone's good graces.
But, yeah. Be nice to see him get a ton though. Really miss Cook in top nick. Not often pretty, but ruthlessly effective.
'He's a shit captain but he's a fucking good bloke'.
`GET ON WITH IT!!!` bellowed from the crowd on TMS just then :D
retire hurt, and get Buttler out there to smash as many as I can.
Pick the lead when Cookie finally decides they've got enough.
I chose 475 further up, I'll stick with that.
or when he gets out.
couldn't chase down the target in the remaining overs, you're wasting time. I think we're pretty much at that point. No way they'll chase 420 in four and a half sessions.
Ended up only wasting a few overs.
good declaration from Cook. Pity we're not going to see Jos but 99 off 88 from the two of them was pretty good.
Played that pretty much perfectly. Probably better for the team if not the result that Cook got some runs too. I'll be happy with Vijay and Pujara out tonight.
Providing he makes a score in the next couple of matches happy to eat my words on him needing a break. Still questions over his captaincy although his catchers were in a lot better positions for their first innings.
130 overs, they deserve the series lead.
India have already made the highest 4th innings score at this ground in the whole of Test history.
They're unlikely to get close to the target. And if they do they'll probably have too many wickets down to push on to attempt it.
Still expect us to win by 150+ runs mind.
"You can't say 'I'm beating her' nowadays".
his wife has a bad back, so is now losing to him at golf
it was the way he brought it back up and said you couldn't say that **nowadays** that made me cringe.
was a case of health and safety gone mad or something...
really sloppy running
Apaar Sinha: "Singles. Take your singles. Singles is the key."
The very next ball...
Wonderful catch by Jordan too
Let's have them before end of play!
What a time to be alive.
Can this thread go away now please.
no cunt int place. think it'd fill up after work.
nipping up the road to watch a couple of hours after work is one of life's great pleasures
Cook just needed to be good at batting and captaining. Can't believe no one thought of that.
we've not lost when Bell has made any of his 21 centuries. so that's what is winning us this game.
(I can't check at work).
Fancy a flutter on that.
Suspect this might be Anderson's last Test this series, so we should make the most of it.
Need to get rid of Jadeja early today.
Anderson Man of the Match? Has to be.
I do not like the expression "to nick off", or derivations thereon. "He's nicked him off" on the cricinfo live text, referring to Jimmy inducing an edge from Dhoni, being the worst so far.
You'd never hear Richie Benaud saying that.
This test is like a beautiful dream. Cook being good, Bell back to his glorious self, Ali being a proper spinner. Savour it!
Outrageous stuff from ALI.
1. Moeen will do until Kerrigan is ready, and then Kerrigan will join Moeen as part of a fiendish pair of spin twins
2. Cook will do until Root is ready to be captain
3. The rebuilding process is on the way at last
Apart from being a Yorkshireman obviously.
but the pundits all seem to think he's the natural successor once he has a few more years under his belt - what do I know (NOTHING!!)
and have spent the last year demanding he be sacked no doubt.
Be nice to try to win this series first before we appoint the new captain.
Some players just have that air about them.
Temperament's important, but the way pundits like to bequeath the captaincy on players who've never captained any side is weird. Something a little "officer material" about it all.
And it's skewed the debate about Cook's captaincy because he's very evidently been the heir apparent for about the last 7 years. That he's stepped up so poorly so far puts the ECB in a bit of a bind but, fortunately for him maybe, there's no alternative anyway...
Still, I'm more a fan of that attitude than the one of `sack the captain and bring in someone who's failed at test level but is a good captain`. Y'know your Rob Keys and your Eoin Morgans and that...
be a middle order batsmen who can bowl a bit. As they don't have the pressure of top order but understand field placings enough to be effective.
Although if it means they're ultimately saying that Paul Collingwood should have been captain then I wholeheartedly endorse every word of it.
Anyway, would just be nice to have one Test this summer when the first response isn't people speculating about the captaincy.
Wanna see a couple of big knocks from Cook in the last 2 tests. Couple of tons and at least a drawn series will hopefully keep the wolves from the door.
savour it, folks.
Ashes Test in Durham last August. Crazy stuff.
But yeah they were reminiscent of 2011 in this test - i.e. get on top of them and they capitulate. Hopefully we'll be able to do them in the next couple.
That 2011 India series was a right let down. First 3 days of the Lords test were breathtaking and from then India just couldn't be bothered.
Asking for a friend
Graceful, bit of a leftfield choice, thoughtful batsman but prepared to give it a bosh, spin (bedwetter pace), politically active
Can't go wrong really.
to go along with two 70s. proper happy he's getting his game and his head back together. good chance he never plays international cricket again with THE NEW ERA and everything but if he's ready if/when a space opens up i'd have him in the side in a heartbeat.
of being told off for bad behaviour by David Boon a faintly ridiculous concept.
He'll be telling Gary Ballance to go easy on the booze next.
I'm sure that's the last we'll hear of it, MS Dhoni and the BCCI will be fully mollified and we can just get on with the series.
He does need to 'calm down' though.