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can he just put anyone wherever he wants?
He's the gaffer.
1 year to detoxify tory education.
Gove has immense appeal to those UKIP voters left cold by Cameron's Conservatives. At least I think he does anyway. Maybe he's paying the price for the Theresa May incident, but I don't think it's necessarily political strategy that's defining this one...
Cameron's appearing to look a bit desperate with this one, it seems.
There's no way they can claw that back, but they can lessen the damage with someone other than Gove at the helm.
His new job seems to be some sort of "super media" chief whip, which would keep him on the airwaves for those UKIPpy types that you mention.
Although the Tories had a lead amongst teachers in 2010?? Missed that one. Blimey.
But it show's how much damage he's done in that area.
and to be honest that is the best thing for teachers - the last thing they need is more instability.
They've got work to do to detoxify the 'brand' of tory education, but maybe the damage is already done?
Gove's "legacy" will stay- Doubt he'd have gone quietly otherwise.
but No.10 has already said that Nicky Morgan will push on with Gove's reform agenda. I guess maybe she will do it in a less objectionable way?
It's definitely a damage limitation move, but I think the damage is already done with the teacher vote. Their memories won't be that short.
Gove could be fired into the sun and teachers wouldn't care.
I could just about buy this being a career move for Gove, an attempt to detoxify himself for whatever it is he might have planned, but it can't be an attempt to detoxify the party. Not unless Cameron is far more stupid or his situation far more desperate than I've realised.
but I do see him potentially being a very good chief whip in the sense of doing the job a whip is expected to do. If it frees him up for more Today interviews then all the better for Cameron. I'd have thought that post election would have made more sense to move him - perhaps a bit of a slap down after his spat with May?
because that probably is the case!
I don't really know an awful lot about chief whip position - I wonder if it's somewhere where Gove could still do some damage?
is really, really attractive after Labour's "education, education, education" years too.
I guess Gove's problem was that he seemed to be attacking teachers for bad standards and generally undermining the notion of teaching being a trained profession.
Would be interesting to see if any government can get their shit together and give us four terms without the pointless long summer holiday block.
I'd also think reform should start at the bottom of the school system. Forget GCSEs (or whatever) right now, those kids just need to leave school with whatever they have. If you want to improve education you need to start with the 5 year olds and what you're trying to teach them and change things from then on, surely? When those kids get to 16 there should be new exams in place that they have been properly prepared for by the foundations you went through on the way up...
I think you're forgetting just what a bad state education, schooling and schools were in by the mid-90s.
I think most teachers now realise that the Labour governments, for all their obsession with right-wing targets and league tables and competition and the like that might have pissed them off, were streets ahead compared to this government, and the ones throughout the 1980s and early-90s.
with his reforms of the Priamry curriculum, but the problem was that he ignored the advice of countless experts and pushed through with what he thought was a progressive rigorous curriculum for English, Maths & Science at KS1 & 2. What we actually end up with is afairly incoherent curriculum that is *too* hard, doesn't support struggling children and has some really very strange elements.
Strange voting record.
Hopefully now British education can get back to tumbling down the world rankings entirely unchallenged.
Was it 'tumbling' before?
And I'm pretty sure it has been for a while.
I'm sure marckee will be along in a bit with some of his facts
Well I assumed you had facts.
You know me.
Claims education in three key areas was slipping down the OECD world rankings as of 2010.
Claims reading and maths, at least, had risen in international rankings in 2013. Still an overall decline taking science into account, though.
and basing any policy on them rather than actually looking at what is important for students is stupid at best, dangerous at worst.
Immediately discredit the source if you don't like the data.
who discredit the methodology of PISA, and see it as fundamentally flawed. For example, they base the results on asking different questions to different children in each country, and minor changes in the order of these questions could result in countries moving up or down more than 30 places. In the PISA before last, Denmark could have come either 5th or 37th depending on what questions were asked. Even the OECD admitted that these fluctuations were likely. & this only scratches the surface of their methodological problems.
Not only that, but conceptually...how meaningful is it to compare reading in Chinese to reading in Finnish?
can't even build a straight tower.
Let's face it, Gove was widely despised because he was a Tory trying to introduce sweeping changes in a profession heavily biased toward the left wing. Something needed to be done.
he was despised because so many of the changes he introduced were wrong, the curricula that he pushed through (despite widespread condemnation) are flawed, and while pushing all of this stuff through he displayed thorough contempt for the very people that he was supposed to be working to support.
by nations that we really should be more competitive with given our world economic standing, who are the teachers to call Gove's changes wrong - why weren't things right before if all you have to do is 'let teachers teach'?
I think everyone on this forum will have some memory of atrocious teaching, several if you're not public/grammar schooled, and have been in education in the last couple of decades. I'm not saying teaching is easy, but it has been allowed to stagnante for a long time. Maybe any change is good change, even if it gives teachers something to rail against and suggest alternatives to.
according to PISA which as I mentioned up there ^^ is a load of old horseshit.
Also I just don't think any change is good change - part of the problem with the education system in the last couple of decades is that successive governments want to put their stamp on education, and so the goalposts are constantly shifting. Once teachers have worked out how to finally make some progress in working out how to teach using one curriculum and methodology, the goalposts completely shift and they have to essentially start again. There is obsessive tinkering with curricula and assessment and everything else and it makes progress and measurement near-impossible.
How about a survey of basic skills? Isn't that more quantifiable?
How about the UK's traditionally high rates of teenage pregnancy and drug use - does that sound like a nation focused on education to you?
Education isn't static - the goalposts have to be constantly moved to keep up with the skills required by the global economy. We can't wrap our kids in cotton wool.
are we dropping down these rankings? If as you suggest "any change is good change" then surely we should have gone flying up?
obviously there are issues to address, but if anything many of Gove's changes will likely serve to promote social exclusion rather than narrow the gap.
And I'll repeat - the goalposts constantly moving is part of the problem, as new systems don't have a chance to bed in and allow teachers to work it out until the next one comes along and completely changes everything. Education certainly isn't static, but that doesn't mean it has to be in constant flux - teachers need some continuity to be able to do their jobs. A decent curriculum should give them the flexibility to use their judgement to react to the changing world around them, and that's not something that Gove has given.
have been falling for years
who can tell you their actual concerns, and the specific ways their jobs are becoming impossible to do effectively. They're nothing like the ones you've made up in your head.
My overarching impression is of a profession very resistant to change, especially when enforced by a Tory government, compounded by my own experiences and that of friends at state schools and middling universities.
this may be part of your problem here... you're advocating specific changes without defining the problems you believe they're solving - given that many on DiS are in favour of evidence based policy making, particularly when it comes to education, it's a tough sell.
If he doesn't make sweeping reforms, he'll be criticised for letting our education system stagnate. If he does, he's moving the goalposts yet again. I hate paperwork as much as the next guy but the public screams bloody murder if problems crop up and there isn't a paper trail available. Some of the changes of focus in the curriculum - computer programming, climate change, wider word history - are things that should have been done a long time ago.
they're resistant to CONSTANT change from a number of different bodies around them, all the while with their funding being squeezed as far as possible. This is why there is such a pressing problem of recruitment and retention of teachers. The level of stress and pressure just isn't sustainable.
Great shout by the person who said he was getting replaced by the scouse witch
Number 10 had to find a way to make that false - there's no way they could be seen to have details of their reshuffle leaking on a train like that four days before it started.
Option 1 - leave IDS in place (which they've apparently done with gritted teeth previously anyway).
Option 2 - replace him but with someone else with less interest in pulling apart the welfare state... probably not something you want to do midway through a troubled project the size of universal credit.
Sat her next to a nosey twitterati and saved his job.
The man's a genius
he hear's his jobs on the line, gets an aid to do the equivilent of dropping a bright red foldered with confidentialon it in in a public space 'Oh dear me, butter fingers, I hope no one reads this top seecret info', it gets leaked and Cameron looks weak if it happens.
you want to prevent him being outside the tent pissing in. Even more ideally you'd rather he was inside the tent pissing out. But if he absolutely insists on staying in the tent pissing randomly, you can at least try to make sure he just carries on pissing in the same corner of the tent, where perhaps you can put some sort of makeshift fence around him.
The idea he might have ended up at defence is proper chilling. A genuine delusional halfwit with real bombs to play with. Scary.
not least because the military types think of him as an absolute charlatan who was shipped out because he was incompetent and who lies about his rank.
I think whoever started that thread owes us an apology
(plus I have subsequently heard from a number of different people I know within the DWP that it was legit)
You didn't hear that from me...
is going to be "Hey I know everything's shit, but give me a chance! I've only been in the job a year. I don't even know where the printer is yet!"
Education in this country has been set back decades and will take years to haul around, and the handing over of state assets worth billions of pounds is irreversible.
Nicky Morgan is yet another of the socially conservative, reactionary newcomers. Promoted into cabinet so Cameron can claim that the Conservative party doesn't hate women, but also so far to the right that potential UKIP voters don't get too scared.
Interesting for Gove though. On the face of it this is a sidelining, which may please Osborne and May, but it actually puts him in closer contact with his champions in the media. I doubt he'll be fronting up the campaigning, but you'll start to see loads of articles-by-proxy in the press now.
whether this is an attempt to win the next election, or an acceptance that they aren't going to. Hague clearly doesn't believe he'd still be Foreign Secretary next year whatever he chose to do personally.
Once you've hung out with Angelina, what else is there to do?!
The most recent polls put the Tories ahead and that's before the usual six-months-before-an-election swing back towards the government.
They probably won't bother campaigning at all. Especially with our famously left-wing press against them as well.
and probably close, and that the odds are still on some sort of hung parliament/coalition. And maybe a lot of these old lags just can't be doing with the hassle. Some of them will want to retreat to position themselves for the next "true conservative" government. Some of them like Hague and Clarke have decided they've got better things to do.
so wouldn't have any intention of staying in post as Foreign Secretary.
Slightly surprised that's his intention, as I'd have thought he had a lot left within him.
and my first instinct was that this isn't about being seen to be 'progressive' or woman-friendly, but about sticking another revolting nodding dog in a position of authority. If anything she's far more conservative and far more obedient than Gove.
So that's pretty much an admission that IDS should have been on his way out.
rather than an apology?
You're not sorry AT ALL
I've had 'roll out' by ludacris stuck in my head since reading this thread title
It might be I always Gove out.
and lacks any of the qualifications for being a Chief Whip."
However, he's spot on with this, re. Dominic Grieve, which is interesting:
"He understood the importance of the rule of law; that is why he was such a strong supporter of the Human Rights Act. It is almost certainly the case that Grieve has been sacked in order to make it easier for the Cameron Tory party to turn its fire on the ECHR in the months leading up to the general election. If this is the case it will become very difficult for civilised people to vote Conservative."
"those of you celebrating - you are doing exactly what Cameron wants you to."
Really? Seems a bit brusmaish to me that tbh.
it has been a bit difficult since humans stopped being able to do more than one thing, I'll admit
there's a lot going on in Politics today guys so you're all going to have to work triple shifts and we'll be printing a 192 page issue this evening
Not really. Not if it's been done as a pure pre-election PR stunt, and the person who replaces him is even more reactionary.
He was always going to turn it down.
It will have been SoS or nothing. Maybe Cameron didn't really want him back?
...there's actually going to be fewer women in the full Cabinet :D
More `attending` Cabinet, sure, but fewer Ministers.
That said it HAS been the media who've been making the fuss about this being THE RESHUFFLE OF WOMEN, and not Conservative HQ, so...
Looking forward to a very spin-tastic election campaign from The Tories. Think if Miliband can campaign on a policy agenda, and have some of it stick, then a Labour majority might actually be on the cards in 2015. No wonder CG is amused...
is going to go to pieces on the campaign. It's going to be a really ugly battle, and the Tories will cope with that much much better than Labour.
as Nick Gibb has returned as Minister of State for Schools. So they're just going to push ahead with the Gove agenda with a different face.
..is his face tbh.
He looks like an arse and he actually is an arse- a very hairy, blotchy and smelly one that hasn't been wiped properly in weeks.
Whereas Portillo, previous holder of the 'face like an arse' mantle in British politics, was able to generate a degree of being seen as having blubby, cuddly but slightly flatulent bumcheeks in his latter career.
Maybe Gove can now retire from front-line politics to go and live with under-priviledged families while we throw rotten fruit at out TV sets?
I should just be rolling my eyes at them by now but they still make me want to put my face through a desk. Top trolling.
is that it was written by women, for women, about women.
Can women be sexist against themselves?
Pauline Dacre thanks us for our custom.