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can't have poor people with Oyster cards messing up the buses now can we?
you total fuckup?
Loads of other European countries haven't used cash on buses for decades...
That's segregation in the name of efficiency, innit. Banality of evil and all that. Next time I'm in the big smoke I'm flooding that fuckers booth with 2p coins. Probably won't get to rid though
You can put coins into an Oyster machine
which would be all kinds of terrible
though I think they ditched that because the ticket machines at the bus stops were all shit and never seemed to work
But I agree with the sentiment. I think they should take cash.
since the Oyster fare is about half the cash fare?
where she gets on the bus during rush hour, swipes her oyster card - which never has any money on it, then she rifles through her bag, pulls out about a pound saying thats all she has and starts begging to be let on 'just this once' as she is late for work. This has happened at least 4 times and successful each time. Clearly she's trying to save for some more trendy trainers.
just to save a couple quid.
pretty crap scam, all-in-all
The povo's use a system of underground sewers to get about
But Balonz is right. Those of us with any wedge take the tube.
So I either ride or bus it.
Along the canal
and accept cash
London's premier scooter-based gigolo. Sorry.
From July 6th buses will be cash free. So you either use an Oyster (which you can now use for one journey after it's run out), or a contactless bank card.
If you get caught without either of those things you're fucked.
"I am writing to let you know that from Sunday 6 July, all our buses are going cash free, so you will no longer be able to use cash to pay for your bus fare.
Instead of cash, you can use an Oyster or contactless payment card to pay as you go. A single pay as you go fare is £1.45.
If you don’t have enough credit on your Oyster card or your Oyster Bus & Tram Pass or Oyster Travelcard has just expired, you can now make one more journey on a bus. You must then top up before you can use your Oyster card again. "
or the money for an oyster card but could have afforded a one off bus fair for their dole appointment. Now they've missed their appointment and had their money cut off, now their dead.
That sort of thing
because many of them deal with cash exclusively? at least that's the assumption.
and, more interestingly, no all banks have contactless cards.
and that's only available through a cash payment. I expect that the majority of them will struggle to choose between buying a wrap of crack or getting the bus to collect their giro.
1) The more affected by poverty you are, the more of a financial strain pre-paying for anything is. i.e. topping up Oyster. You can't spend the £3.55 you have left on your Oyster - because you had to make a £5 top-up (because you didn't have access to a coin-accepting Oyster machine) for one journey - on food if you need to.
2) The potentially flexible use of a contactless debit card is something those on low incomes are less likely to have access to.
I've literally never had trouble topping up an Oyster card with cash, plus as mentioned elsewhere it's cheaper than the equivalent cash fare.
related to making a bus journey in that there London.
But it was basically me saying that I don't agree with the argument that it affects the poor more than anyone else.
But do continue to 'not agree' with arguments about extreme poverty as I am sure you have lots direct experience of it.
As mentioned below, very few people still pay cash fare on a bus anyway (I trust TFL more on this one than on their 'nobody uses ticket offices any more!' line), and it's usually tourists who do so.
it's fair to say TFL is the mouthpiece of Boris and whichever interested parties are involved.
I don't necessarily believe them, in short, but equally the '1%' is really the point, here.
then how do I get an oyster card? can I get one for just 1 journey?
Or are they trying to make it so that only LMEs can use the buses?
Personally it seems to me that since all of the country subsidises more transport for London, if I need to catch public transport then I will do so, if the fuckers refuse to take my money then thats up to them, I aint getting off the fucking bus, If they want to take me to court, it will be interesting how they refused to take legal tender with the queens head on it (I bet she'd be right pissed off)
A bus driver would have to accept them.
shouldn't have to. *pats own arm*
So basically you are going to be that dickhead that makes us all wait then?
Though a friend made me get an Oyster on it last time and I think I've still got like 17 quid on it left which is exactly why I want to pay in pennies next time
It's people than stand around holding other people on principal that bother me.
most people who will be on a bus oystercard less from outside of London, WILL BE the ones that are FUCKING inconvenienced, many will be suprised that they cannot pay for a single journey, most visitors will not be au fait with your local oyster customs.
London receives more spending on transport than anywhere else, people outside london are net subsidisers of your transport infrastructure
As London and the South East are only two regions that contribute more GDP per capita than they receive in public expenditure. so basically we subsidise your everything.
And get all that money AND your deposit back you know?
Good to know though cheers
So this is why their closing the ticket offices. Clever
by being subsidised by tax payers in the rest of the country to provide 'PUBLIC TRANSPorT' but then making it a bit like a fucking private club for LME.
THis is addressed to all scots, PLEASE dont leave us alone to be bullied by the London Bastards.
but done away with change, if they didn't already do that. Considering a fare is only a quid or something anyway rather than the ridic fares you get in other cities, you can't complain too much.
it will be interesting when someone decides to test this in the courts.
If you do offer to pay with legal tender of the realm, and they refuse to accept it but you do not get off the bus, then what happens then? I mean you are not fare dodging......what if its a one off trip to London and a single trip on a bus, how do you purchase such a fare? can you get an oyster card for just this one fare? (It should be available for no more of the cost of 1 fare, after all their argument states that this will be no more than 1%......unless of course the intention is to make that 1% pay through the nose for their 'difference')
on which i've probably spent around £30
and I trust Theo
I ended up with a cancelled card and had to buy a temporary replacement and then they could only move my yearly card across to the new oyster by sending me a new one, meaning I then had two active Oyster cards.
When I took the spare one back to get a refund I definitely didn't get my £5 'deposit' back. The bastards also gave me £20 top up cash as compensation. It's a fucking Zones 1 & 2 yearly travelcard. It's pretty fucking rare that I ever need top up cash so by the time I use most of it it'll only have been worth about £5 thanks to inflation.
You're complaining that they gave you £20 instead of 5?!
I actually would have preferred some kind of refund directly or an extra week's travelcard.
The spare card I had £20 on originally but it got used while I was having to travel with it before the replacement was posted.
And technically it is available for the cost of a single fare, as you could buy an Oyster, make your journey and return it at the end of your journey in exchange for your "deposit".
so whether they accept cash or stamps or whatever is moot.
Imagine a theme park, where you have to buy a wristband at the gate to go on all the rides. It'd be like you sneaking into the park, and offering cash to the guy who runs the roller coaster to have a go. He'd tell you to go and buy a wristband, he wouldn't be duty bound to accept your cash.
join up to the private members club with cash
I agree with you entirely, London buses should accept cash.
so I dont inconvenience the LME private members club. Please tell me where these points of purchase are?
and tell me if it works like this. I need to go on bus journey, I pay deposit on oyster card £5....do I then purchas credit on oyster card for my (hypothetically) £1.50 bus journey. (total outlay £6.50) then when I am leaving london (probably on late train) I can pop into a different place and get my oyster card deposit back of £5.00, so that my total outlay is £1.50?
WHO WHAT WHERE WHY WHEN
credit than i would have to use, I was also assuming that it might not be easy to get the deposit back, I was also assuming that payment points might not be numerous and conveniantly available (Can you get the deposit back from a different place from whence you got it?)
all tube/train stations etc. If you top up with card you have to pay set amounts (£5, £10 etc), but with cash you can top up whatever you have (£1.50 if you so wanted).
particularly if their ticket office is closed. Similarly, nor will most DLR or Tramlink stations.
There's about 3-4000 places besides stations (mostly newsagents and the like) where you can buy them, although they're not always convenient, particularly if you're travelling from the suburbs. http://www.thetflforum.co.uk/interactive/oysterticketstoplocator/
If you were dropped off at Northwick Park Hospital for example, you've probably got about a half mile walk from the bus stops to get an Oyster Card if a bus driver gets arsey and doesn't let you on.
You'll probably arrive in London at Victoria, Paddington, Heathrow, Kings X, Waterloo, Euston, Liverpool Street, London Bridge etc.
Oysters ready to go.
but its a fiction that society bandies around as it helps keep the mob subdued
it was something like £1.80, but I only had a fiver.
had to go to mcdonalds to crack open a note and wait ten minutes for the next bus.
this isn't normal? i've only been on one bus in my life that gave change, and it was a shit heap that had basically stock car racers for drivers
but loads of the scumbags do it.
just wankstain drivers not troubling themselves to be any help.
Sometimes get glared at when handing over a twenty but that's about it
Always get change on a bus. even paying with a tenner you just say 'Sorry BRUV only got a note isn't it' and you're still on the bus
'The driver may refuse to accept £20 notes' but you can give anything else and it's all fine and dandy.
trying to "get with the times"
can you instead approach a member of the public who DOES have an oyster card, give them the money for the fare and they will then 'swipe you on'?
1) They probably wouldn't be able to swipe twice (there's a timeout to stop you being double charged.
2) If a ticket inspector gets on, you'll be travelling without a validated Oyster Card.
but whether or not you are a valid member of the club.
There's nothing to stop you buying an Oyster card and returning it after one journey.
"hey you can come and bunk down at mine if you like, come on we can catch the last bus"
out of town diser - "alas no, I cannot for I only have money, I cannot join you on your journey as I am not a member of your club and I cannot see any readily available club membership application booths....sorry.....care to share a taxi with me"
LME disser "no way, fuck off back to the provinces you unwashed yokel"
Then surely you'd plan in advance? I think you're going out of your way to pick holes in what is essentially a very well designed and egalitarian public transport system. The idea of even getting public transport home after a night out is completely alien to 99% of UK towns and cities.
plans on using it. It may seem far fetched to you, but I am picking holes in it to test its soundness and am basing my holepicking over scenarios that I envisage based upon my life experiances.
Like when I have visited london.
Now I appreciate that maybe not everyone likes spontinaity or uncertainty, and many people like to plan everything with no gaps, but this leaves no room for changes, perhaps not everyone will go to another town/city without knowing where they will end up, or what they will do, but not everyone is the same.
info from HYG, that helps a bit, and it would appear that the answer to some of the issues would be to have auto oyster card dispensers at bus stops, or on buses if theft is a concern.
It is a perfectly valid and useful exercise to try and pick holes using a different pov, in a new system which will be rolled out, it may look annoying to people with a pov that is aligned more fully with the system being rolled out (because the system is designed to cater for their needs)
However I think that your last sentence concerning 99% is probably a bit bold, I mean it kind of negates any obligation to provide any late night public transport (99% being an adequete reason given for banning cash on busses)
But the fact it's not a perfect system doesn't implicitly mean that it's trampling on the less privileged as a result. And frankly if you showed up somewhere without making any effort to learn about it's public transport system in advance and then stamped your feet about how hard it is to use the public transport system if you're not local then the problem isn't with the system at all.
The Oyster card system is just as easy to use for tourists as it is for people living in London, and I say that from experience of being both. Of course it's useful to try and think of ways that it can be improved, but you seem to be ignoring the fact that with the smallest amount of planning most of the problems you envisage could and would be avoided at no extra expense.
I won't mind.
much of it stems by me just making the fact that I have more disordered thought patterns than some people (in this I am not alone) and therefore more disordered behaviour, seem like it means I am less square........who knows, maybe If I were able to think more similarly to the majority, then perhaps I would not disagree.
I'm enjoying creaky's line of questioning, as if only this lot will be allowed to use buses from now on:
Duran Duran experimented with many looks"
You'd get similarly pulled up if the same thing happened with a ticket.
"Oh, someone else bought it for me, but they got off the bus three stops back."
Frankly put, it's shite that they won't accept cash and is going to have a disproportionate effect on the most put-upon in society for various reasons. The angle you're taking is pretty irritating though. It's nothing to do with "clubs" or trying to mug off tourists - it's a (badly designed) policy intended just to save TFL money by handling less cash.
dispute that, however, I can definately envisage scenarios where tourists/one off visitors will DEFINATELY be inconvenianced as well.
HYG has answered many of my issues, although availability of outlets would still seem to be an issue, as often one has to catch a bus in a hurry, or catch the late ones, when outlets might not be open.
My banging on about 'clubs' is probably annoying as it might sound like im implying all London centric people are selfish, I didnt mean this, the whole club thing was in a similar vein to all the LME stuff in here which I don't normally get involved in.
Of course I am aware that those who have severe financial hardship will have more problems with this, but Im not following this angle because I normally do....in this thread I am following a churlish peeved pov of an out of towner
and so a lot of non londoners WILL think that are being mugged off.
In todays political climate peoples opinion counts just as much as what the real reason is :D
(I dont believe that, but society seems to :D )
So it might be £1.60 on a oyster but it's £2.50 in cash
This this will save out of town people money.
Also I have been into other cities, I found their transport systems a bit hard to understand (basically anywhere with competing private busses). I'm not crying about special clubs. You're just doing that because it's london.
creaky at one point seemed to be arguing that those outside London should be treated more considerately because their taxes prop up half of TfL's budget. That of course is true, and the saving from the removal of cash fares is one of the ways that that subsidy is being enabled to be cut. It sure as hell isn't going to go towards keeping fares down.
If you lose your wallet or get mugged or whatever and don't have your Oyster card on you and all the tubes are shut... how do you get home even if you do have cash on you?
Happened to me on bus when my Oyster didn't have enough and the driver didn't have change to let me pay in cash (ironically).
So you have to fill that form in while everyone waits for you? Excellent.
I imagine you can go and sit down and fill the form in.
I was deeply aware when the driver filled it out that I could have given a false name and address and never have had the thing traced back to me (maybe I was being filmed and beamed back to the control room, I don't know), so it does rely on honesty for them to reclaim the money... maybe that's why they don't advertise it.
with details on how to pay it back. It did take a little while, and in fact a man was shouting at me IF YOU CAN'T PAY YOU MUST GET OFF THE BUS but in the situation you laid out, they're obviously invaluable.
but they're called Unpaid Fare Notices.
lots of places (machines at bus stops, in news agents etc), then just have to stamp/validate it on the bus.
Although on their bendy buses you just have to put your ticket in this tiny machine by the door if you get on midway down, so it's really easy to cheat.
Using cash on buses is pretty outdated...
where are the oyster card purchase and deposit return points?
Are they automated? do they have them in the street near to all bus stops?
I think they've been secretly telling drivers to be really shitty to cash payers over the last few years anyway, they gave you filthy looks, they never set them up with change so they'd just shrug at you and make you get off if you had a fiver, they'd be really slow and pull out their own wallets and give you a load of coppers
Bus drivers are disproportionately churlish in my experience, but it doesn't have anything to do with some top-down TfL directive to phase out cash fares.
100+ replies about bus fares and marckee hasn't even shown up yet.
Should set off his Google alert.
for when the parents visit. This has spurred me on!
Glad they wont charge for that one extra journey, as I don't live particularly near a shop that will top up
Suppose you have to take two buses home?
is if I let my card run out. Would normally top up on the way if I was taking the bus
(totally get yr point tho)
I remember getting on the bus for 40p. Magical days.
t'other day this guy just wanted to ride one stop because it was pouring with rain and he had a suitcase and was incredulous that it was 1.40
Should have been £1.45 if it was t'other day. He was offered a bargain. Kudos to him for noticing how much his Oyster was being charged though, what with all the hassle of the luggage and the rain and all.
because I'm shit at keeping my oyster card topped up and often get the nightbus home when i'm very drunk....and sometimes my oyster card has no money on it, and there are no stations open or shops nearby to top up the oyster card...and now they can't take cash, and i dont have a contactless card....so what? cabs? or be stranded and vulnerable?
then the bus driver is required to carry you after giving you an Unpaid Fare Notice.
in my experience anyway.
Either way they must have a contingency for this scenario, as it's pretty common shirley.
Every time it drops below £10 it will automatically top-up. I don't know why the threshold is £10 it just is.
I actually thought they'd rolled them out for everyone now.
Several financial organisations still haven't decided on them. Of course TfL introducing them as a valid payment method London-wide for the forseeable future will probably help tip them all towards it sooner or later.
It will let you travel when you don't have enough cash on your Oyster. But as said, auto top up is the way to go. It saved me from embarrassingly sneaking onto night buses when pissed and out of credit.
Those machines at bus stops where you can buy a ticket with cash, and then take it on the bus...
...they're not going anywhere. (Zone 1 only I think)
Certainly most of them have been removed.