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I am more excited than is reasonable.
As in, in conjunction with when HBO are showing it
on Sky Atlantic
not sure if they're doing it every week. but considering i'm back to working evenings it's pretty tempting to just become a night person for the next ten weeks...
Although I'm really not sure about this waiting a week in between episodes, it's been a long time since I had that sort of patience!
but one hour seems so short with a week between episodes, especially when you get a disappointing one. I heard something about them finishing off the series with a film, or a few films. Don't know how I would feel about that, think it suits tv much better, although I guess it depends where the plot ends up going, there could be a focus that would work really well as a film. I don't know.
to watch a two hour episode at a time. this works for me.
there are tits everywhere. tits practically run the show. what are you talking about??
Oberyn was a bit cartoonish and there are a lot of problems with the Dornish casting (there was a big thing about them casting white or very pale actors for characters who shouldn’t be, and you’d think that after they got so much criticism for the white lady crowdsurfing scene they’d at least make an effort to have better representation), but I quite enjoyed him being a massive dick to the Lannisters. I really like the rest of the Martell/Sand lot so hoping we get to see Dorne properly in series 5. They were throwing in some backstory this episode, it’s Stark level sad.
The acting in the Tyrion and Sansa scenes was brilliant, Sophie Turner is perfect and I liked that they mentioned Tyrion’s admiration of Catelyn. Granny Tyrell was amazing as usual, grinned loads at how utterly delighted she was with Brienne.
Arya’s scene seemed way too cold, very scary, and sad. Interesting how close it was to the Winds of Winter chapter that was released recently.
Pretty good first episode, love all the awkward dialogue where they just list information in case you forgot who everyone is.
I'm with you, I think she plays the part very well, Sansa is meant to be that way.
But everyone else I speak to thinks she's made of wood.
they are only doing the simulcast with US for the first episode...
Don't want to be this knackered at work on a Monday for the next 9 weeks too
SO EXCITED. I watched at least 10 hours of GoT this weekend but still have not caught up. Is there a catch up trailer?!
GoT as 70s sitcom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEursnYll7w
Top (not acutal) fan theories: http://the-toast.net/2014/04/03/popular-song-fire-ice-fan-theories/
So much good stuff coming this season
The second half of a Storm of Swords is absolutely mental. This season is going to be non stop
but I'm still upset Oded Fehr isn't playing him.
more interesting than Jamie as an anti-hero. by miles.
are there any legit torrents out there that arent blocked by virgin internet? It's making me really sad that I can't find any and i accidentally just downloaded s03e08 cos i thought it was new :(
or another proxy site
it's just the first five i tried didnt work
panic over everyone
Ed Skrein might not have been the best actor but he had charisma and good chemistry with Dany. The new guy isn't bringing anything to the table.
for that pretty boy bodyguard guy? Was wondering who that beardy dude was
the new guy was in Treme, and I was really confused as to why I hadn't noticed him before.
Bad move, Ed. Bad move
just realised that's where I recognised him from
i had no idea what was going on.
Daario is a slick stylish and rugged motherfucker, not some Conan extra like they had it last year
“Well, here we are at the Brad Goodman lecture.”
“We know, Dad.”
“I just thought I’d remind everybody. After all, we did agree to attend this self help seminar.”
“What an odd thing to say.”
I'm gonna have to eat every fucking chicken in this room
Can't see how anything else can top that line
Needle sliding smoothly into people's brainpans...
this season, and some people might start to think she's a bit horrible. I think that probably won't be the case, but an interesting thing to say, especially with her slowly plunging needle into people in the first episode.
I find myself torn between GoT Perspective and Normal Person Perspective. So at the end of this episode, from GotP I felt massively chuffed, but from NPP I was like "fuck, this incredibly abused child is learning to enjoy murdering people".
Sort of feel Dany could go that way a bit, too.
and I do a little out-loud giggle
fucks sake, I like the hound.
Jamie's little gold hand wave :'D
"There's no cure for being a cunt" line
I prefered the lots of people name their swords bit though.
might have to wait til lunch to share them though
do we need separate BW and non-BW threads?
Go dig up the SOIAF thread or something.
and yet still somehow much less ridiculous than in True Detective
(probably need to go and complain about that ending in the relevant thread)
The last episode isn't broadcast until next week and I haven't seen it.
That bit with the swords was good wasn't it. And the dragons. I was like... whooooaaa dragons.
He's been almost too much of a powerhouse so far, he needed to be RR Martin'd.
I think Dany will lose control of her dragons and maybe they'll wipe out her army.
I like the Hound so he can only have two or three more episodes in him. I think they'll lead us to believe Arya and Sansa will be reunited at the place with the sickly boy who still breast-feeds. The Hound is heading there with Arya and I think Jamie will send Sansa there to honour his commitment. But The Hound will get killed and Arya's story will see her moving somewhere else.
God, this is pointless but I can't stop myself.
I'm hoping he doesn't go groveling to Tywin. There was a point when I liked Tywin but now I want his head caved in.
I've been convinced Arya would end up in Bravos since that face changing man. She is becoming more badass by the minute.
Long as Bron stays alive and says cunt more I'm happy.
Robson and Jerome fame? I had no idea.
nb don't really care
Danaerys (can't remember how to spell her name) is gonna be a bit shit at something or other. She's had too much good stuff happen recently so I reckon that siege is gonna be fairly prolonged and costly. I reckon this season she's gonna lose a fair bit. Probably a dragon or two and some of her army.
People have spoiled a bit of the Lannister story so i guess i can't talk too much about that. Seems pretty obvious that Jaime and Cercei are gonna fall out hard though. He's a good guy now apparently and she's lost it. Jaime is gonna fuck Brienne. At least two Lannister main characters will die this series i think.
Tyrells are gonna do pretty well. Margaery or whatever her name is has a lot more mileage, will probably suffer a bit from Joffrey but will ultimately get the better of him. Queen of Thorns woman does some morally good things.
The Starks are obviously gonna do really well this season, kill a few dickheads, manipulate things and thereby bring about some other deaths. Think Arya is gonna head of to Bravos at the end of the series, probably kill littlefinger or something first. Bran will control loads of people in his mind and something CRAZY is gonna happen like he's gonna meet the children of the forest (i've watched GoT 'lore' youtube videos ok fuckoff).
Oberin Martell's gonna kill some people, Tyrion's gonna leave King's Landing, Shea's gonna die, Stannis is gonna JOIN FORCES with the night's watch or something and win the hearts of the north maybe, everyone's gonna worship the light god, Lily Allen's brother's fake sister is gonna die rescuing him but he'll escape and kill some people from house bolton etc etc.
I've nailed it to be honest.
I reckon her death will push Tyrion to destroy or abandon his family.
it'd be more surprising if she made it / sth else happened
good work casting peepz
has anyone read the new chapters from the latest books? I AM RESISTING.
It's something that was always going to happen eventually you just didn't know when, where and how.
Read the other ones a while back can't really remember much about them though. Just want the book now to be honest!
he must've written a fair bit by now, but the waiting is killliiiiinnnnggg meeeeeee
and make a load of 'predictions' instead.
are those actual spoilers?
i've no idea what happens
some of it is based on what the cast have said in interviews which are freely available on youtube
as opposed to the not-freely-available books? =/
they basically just say things like 'the starks are looking for revenge' or whatever. Well DUH.
You're welcome to delete all my posts in this thread though. Don't even know if DK was talking about me but i assume he was so yeah.
but I thought we could be mates who do a bit of lighthearted banter elsewhere.
I'm broken :(
i was just worried i'd somehow ruined it for other people. Empathy is my weak spot, okay? I'm just too bloody nice.
I think the rules of the GoT universe make it quite easy in broad terms to predict what will happen (NOT THAT STILL_HERE OR ANYONE ELSE HERE HAS WITH ANY SPECIFIC ACCURACY, NON-SPOILER FANS). The Lannisters have to suffer following the Red Wedding- the entire premise of the story depends on it.
what if they just get away with it, forever
(I'd probably watch that quite happily)
(actually - wonder if they are messing with us now making Jamie more sympathetic, hoping we've forgotten he hurled a child out of the window?)
Just based on the TV show so far (but supplemented by the books), a very moral world has been constructed- not in that people act morally, but that the morality of their actions has inevitable consequences from them. Real Dance of Death literary theory bullshit. Subverting genre traits is great and all that, but I'd feel a bit cheated if I'd been sucked into a world that then changed its terms.
It's why I always found Breaking Bad to be an interesting 6th form media studies contrast- people get away with their shit in that world.
Rotten Tomatoes is now collating TV reviews, starting here with GoT:
SO MUCH TO READ.
Quite enjoyed this from the NYT:
"One of the ingenious pleasures of “Game of Thrones” is that for all the convoluted narrative twists, its 78 subplots (rough estimate) tend to unfold along user-friendly genre lines. You have your high melodrama (King’s Landing), your buddy-cop capers (Jaime and Brienne, Arya Stark and the Hound), your humble hero’s quest (Bran).
In Snow, hardened by his Donnie Brasco stint with the Wildlings, we have what appears to be a burgeoning Loose Cannon, testily answering to soft-jowled superiors whining about procedure. Did he kill his partner and sleep with the enemy? Sure. Because that’s how things get done out on the ice. While you were up here wringing your hands over oaths, Snow was uncovering an impending invasion by Mance Rayder and his 100,000-strong army of Thenns, Hornfoots and giants, and getting arrows in the back for his troubles. You wanna hang him for it, go ahead. Yeah, didn’t think so."
in Gritty Cop 4: Freeze, Motherfucker.
issues with plots not making sense, weird missteps in writing or anything?
Seems pretty solid to me, but I liek a bit of nit-picking, been wonderign if there is anything.
the only thing that confused me was the all the Lord of Light Red Woman stuff, but I am rewatching it all and just got to the bit where she births the black thing - which I don't really remember so I must have missed it the first time. makes a bit moire sense now.....although she is a bit nonsense.
this post is a bit pointless.
i give up (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
and that will also be in the wrong place, won't it?
never mind. didn't have anything to contribute anyway.
OH WHY OH WHY DOES THIS NOT WORK ANYMORE
mobile or full site?
i'm posting on the full site.
i am going to try firefox instead of chrome.
I will not delete this reply
I will not delete this reply
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TL;DR: Have not seen Game of Thrones but I'm going to judge it anyway.
He looks every inch a feeble nerdlinger, even if I do say so myself, so that's something
looking forward to Arya getting all Hanna on the Lannister's asses at some point.
I reckon Daenerys is going to fall for Daario. Bold prediction I know.
I guess it works
sort of vaguely tied into the "predictions" elements
I think that's my own personal best for "forgot to sign in as MITS"-ness in a reply.
must be weird for Jaime to be chastised by his own son. He probably has to constantly hold himself back from giving him the thrashing he deserves.
I certainly do.
clearly the only person in the KLME who doesn't think J-Diddy is a complete tool is Cersei. If the Tywin, Tyrio and Jamie just had a quick co-operative huddle surely they could just push him down some stairs or sth?
(I mean obviously he's not, but you know what I mean)
If he dies, Lannister's would have no 'right' to the throne.
So Lannisters would be alright provided the kids don't followJoffrey's example.
lots of OTT throat stabbings
Just ended it half way through the books. Alright then.
Seriously though, it's pretty insane how popular this programme has got.
the really incredible part is that the ratings keep going up each season. Almost 25% on the season 4 finale!
Netflix/DVD boxsets/short seasons, eh?
US ratings. thought it would be... much higher? TWD has three times as many (legal) viewers.
...whereas HBO is a premium cable channel - just a matter of having a much bigger potential audience.
i thought they were both paid channels.
...it's just that AMC is on a cheaper package and therefore has more subscribers than HBO.
AMC is like Sky1, it comes with everything. HBO is a specific subscription add on, like Sky Movies or something.
totally missed cersei's boobs first time round.
Then he has gone out in style, with a final hurrah of excellent dickheadery.
From commentaries and interviews it sounds like he had a lot of fun playing the role and it definitely shows. Can't think of many out and out TV villains I've enjoyed hating as much. Scorpius in Farscape was great (but almost became weirdly likeable in a way and was more from the gloriously campy school of villainy than the psychopathic stylings of Joffrey). Guess the next closest candidate is the wonderfully smarmy Charles Logan of 24 (or indeed treacherous Nina) but neither of those two quite match the sheer spoiled depravity and vindictiveness of Joffrey.
24 was actually really good at that sort of thing, for some reason Sherry Palmer slipped my mind, if she'd been in Cersie's position in some highly unlikely TV mash up she might just have been able to put a leash on Joffrey.
I felt physically sick at the beginning of the episode (it's been a long day, tbf), then felt completely on edge throughout, and then completely jubilant but also terrified a the end. What. An. Episode.
Even if you didn't agree with his political views, he was still someone's son.
We have the chance to turn the pages over
We can write what we want to write
We gotta make ends meet, before we get much older
We're all someone's daughter
We're all someone's son
How long can we look at each other
Down the barrel of a gun?
You're the voice, try and understand it
Make a noise and make it clear
We're not gonna sit in silence
We're not gonna live with fear
This time, we know we all can stand together
With the power to be powerful
Believing we can make it better
"Look! The pie!"
"Here comes my cheese!"
in the show just for me.
Was hoping for many happy years of twattery before Arya stuck him with Needle, but I guess that would be too satisfying for Martin's liking.
the "lots of people name their swords"/"lots of cunts" joke from last week.
good writing there I think.
but just got a text from a mate that said "Ding dong! Joffreys dead! Joffreys dead! Yay!".
THANKS A FUCKING LOT DAN
that Shae was going to be inside it.
There's absolutely no way she's on a boat by the way. Has Bronn sold Tyrion out or something? Surely not.
Like the fact there'll be a Whodunnit now. Ser Dontos is the dark horse for me, though it could have been the Martells.
Guess if it was him he would likely have been ordered by someone.
Could be loads of people. Oberyn is probably a more likely candidate, given all the child murdering references he was making to Cersei. Seems too obvious though.
Could have actually been Tyrion- given his obvious anger and his 'another way to punish the king' line, but I don't think so.
Could have been the Tyrells. Olenna was looking particularly suspicious and it's noticeable that none of them helped him, but I don't see what they could gain from it.
Varys? He's always got that "for the good of the kingdom" schtick going on, maybe he thought Joffrey was getting too evil...
My thinly veiled mentioned Cersei- especially as she'd just sent the doctor guy away- but can't see her killing her own kid tbh. Tywin though....
she had the means, the moment the cup rolled under the table and she picked it up
this is now my current favourite theory.
if not, which cup was it? someone else's? maybe it was they who were supposed to have been poisoned, not Joffers
She was trying to leave the reception *before* she picked up the cup. And she only managed to get near the cup because Joffrey kicked it under the table towards her. Nobody could have predicted that would happen, and if you're going to poison the king at his wedding you think you'd have a more full-proof plan.
and really, who would blame her?
Again, just seems a bit obvious? Will be brilliant if she has managed to kill him though.
said she wants to stay as Queen regent, which she wouldn't be able to if Joffery married and got a real queen - as explicitly pointed out to her by the Spanish lothario man whose name I don't know yet.
Could be a case of giving everyone motives to set up the scene, but there's a good chance - keep her place on the throne, frame Tyrion, knows what a destructively volatile psycho Joffrey is. She was being really twitchy, on the verge of freaking out all episode.
It could well be her.
There was that whole bit lasts season about her potentially topping herself if it wasn't for baby Joff, and how she's the only person who could love him even though she knew he was a little bastard.
Only way it could be her is if she was attempting to kill Margeary and killed Joffrey by accident. That's be quite a delicious irony.
Either way, not sure her motive stands up as she's have to kill her other son to remain Queen Regent. I assume they'll marry him off at some point soon (to Margeary again perhaps? Or is she cursed now? Hmmm)
rather than out for revenge. If anything Sansa is in an even worse situation now than before.
Obviously a book wanker, but my take at the time I read Joffrey's death was that it was either an act of the Gods, the karmic consequence of the Red Wedding, or a conspiracy by Olenna Redwyne or Tywin Lannister- possibly even both.
Still great to watch though. I'm actually sorry to see him go, as much as he was a truly despicable character he was great to watch. The whole wedding scene leading up to the poisoning was so tense.
I think I suspect everyone apart from the Tyrells. With Joffrey married to Margaery they were in power, now that he's dead they're back to square one. They've no reason to kill him off.
One thing I'm sure of is Jaime is about to get it tight from Tywin for not protecting his King.
Olenna was acutely aware that Joffrey was a psychopath, maybe she thought that Margeary would eventually wind up dead if she married him. Olenna also made that reference to killing a king at a wedding.
Agreed though- hard to see how they get anything out of it at the moment.
Also, surely the Lannisters have no claim to the throne now? I think that is a pretty big motive. That said they all had a pretty big motive right?
That little performance was pretty much the most insulting thing he could have done.
They have another son. If anything it's better for them because Tommen (iirc) is younger and less psychopathic. Tywin could keep him controlled for years while being de facto King.
I completely forgot about that one. My mistake!
Chopping the book in half, getting horribly drunk, bullying Tyrion, insulting absolutely everyone else at the wedding with the dwarf show.
Top work all round, Joff.
how hard is it for people not to spoil stuff? just don't mention what's going to happen... how difficult is that?
Someone posted "RIP Joffrey" on Facebook.
Really tempting to ask a book wanker to send them a spoiler filled message.
you should definitely do this sadpunk
I think I'm going to have to read all the books before dickheads tell me the ending of every episode
it used to be easier to avoid but now I think literally everyone in the world is watching it
Some woman at my gf's work ruined it for her just because she thought it was an interesting conversation. She's worse than Joffrey basically.
ruined Ned Stark's death for her back in series one. Think she literally walked into work and said "can you believe they killed Sean Bean off?!" and we hadn't watched the episode yet. That was pretty annoying.
I posted 'my favourite game of thrones episode ever' expecting a few THIS^ comments.
Then someone posted 'what because Joffery died?'. I deleted it straight away and was like DUDE. He cited that it'd been online for 2 days, it's been aired an hour before hand in the UK.
then there's the cunts that are like "ooh this one is a GREAT EPISODE you won't believe WHO DIES at 43.16 minutes in!"
fuck off, that ruins it too
someone saying "was anyone else punching their air at the end of this episode?" and that's was enough to know what was going to happen.
it was pretty good.
you're getting slow.
She was looking shifty throughout and he came to get her when it was done.
Poor Tyrion though. I was hoping Bronn would turn up, continue his run of being the best thing in the series, and put "Widows Wail" through Joffrey's chest.
I think this is it for the Lannisters; battle lines will be drawn, pitting Tywin and Cersei against Tyrion and Jamie. Everyone will die, obvs.
What was the point of the scene with Stannis and those wicker man twats? I was only half watching at that point and didn't really see anything significant happen.
Ramsey showing his dad the power he had over Theon/Reek was a brilliant scene.
We get it- he's a psychopath.
I also found it a little stupid that Roose Bolton was giving him a big lecture about harming a valuable hostage, right in front of the guy who chopped Jaime Lannister's hand of. No idea how that guy is still alive.
Roose is doesn't need to worry about Tywin right now and it's better for him if Jaime ceases to be a problem for him in terms of sword fighting.
Whereas the Iron Islanders are a real issue and he wanted to avoid having to fight an extra battle.
But when the Nick Cave lookalike chopped off Jaime's hand, Roose was still plotting against Robb Stark and colluding with Tywin. You'd think when they met at Harrenhall and came to a deal, Jaime would have made him kill the guy who lobbed his hand off. Just seemed a bit hypocritical to me.
I think that it was there to say how broken he really was (although, I think the dog scene did that well enough).
Good point made below though...he chopped Jamie's hand off!
Those guys have really dropped the ball on GoT.
I was thinking of getting it for GoT and Mad Men.
During any kind of peak time, it's fucking awful. Weekends and Monday evening viewings are ruined by poor definition and buffering. Netflix is way, way better!
How much actual time has passed since the first season? I can see why they hire older actors who have already done all their growing to play young teenagers now - case in point Thomas Sangster as Jojen.
they might end up struggling with this a few series down the line. He's going to be like 18 and playing a 10 year old kid. Hodor can't be happy about this.
at least he's sat down all the time, and everybody around him is supposed to be either abnormally tiny or huge, so his height isn't so much of a problem, more his face/ voice
at Sigur Ros.
Maybe he's allergic to peace.
I love reading this thread knowing whats going to happen. Everyones opinions on what they think will happen is genuinely enjoyable. Cheers.
is anybody right?
i'm going there. Told Loras that he wouldn't marry cersei, only way i can think that would happen would be if joffrey's and margaery's marriage pretty much didnt happen i would've thought.
I dunno, i reckon it's at least possible. List of people who could have done it in order of plausibility (ignoring things like 'that would be boring if it was them')
Old creepy guy
That's basically it, thanks for reading my comprehensive list.
candidates than Jaime I think. Don't really see much benefit for him in killing Joffrey, especially as his dad is now going to think he's even more of a useless bastard.
Also- haven't seen Littlefinger in a while have we? Hmmm....
gonna meet arya and stuff isnt he
Littlefinger's only second to Varys in the highly untrustworthy stakes, I'd say. I don't think we know where he is.
*cue next episode opening with him in the Vale or something*
and Sansa was crying as it was her last chance of escape. She thought she was marrying Loras at the time so decided to stay, iirc.
Could have sent someone though (Ser Dontos)? He's normally involved in this kind of shit, the sneaky bastard.
No way a Martell would take revenge on the snide
becuase this is only our second episode with him, so if you please, to the book wanker thread with you
you illiterate oik
jesus, it's hard enough remember what characters look like and what their names are let alone just mentions.
Game of Thrones Season 4- can't remember anything so everything is a spoiler discussion thread
fluffed my lines
Loitering in the TV show thread
< fist pump >
between this and POgate I'm going to sit in the garden and have a cry.
Just an assumption of what happened. Has the book wankers crying spoiler actually created the spoiler?
I suppose it's possible I've been enormo-trolled but would rather risk that than leave some ludicrous spoiler in-thread.
you fucking monster?
2) literally no idea
I assumed so as the last I saw was Fidel saying "If there's anything bookish, I'll delete it"
Now it's been deleted.
But I'd already read the article. WHAT DO I KNOW?!
but thought it was better to pull it
GREAT THEORY THOUGH I ASSURE YOU
that's super-helpful, appreciate it.
and delete any mention of the TV show. That'll learn 'em.
Arya is just getting scary/awesome now, her's is definitely my most anticipated story arc.
The Joffrey thing was crazy though; I kept expecting the episode to end with him choking, and then of course next time round he'd be fine, or at the very most severely ill in bed plotting against his enemies. I'd forgotten that the bad guys could die along with the good ones!
and the throne needs to be a dangerous seat, so Joffrey was getting kinda redundant.
That BB is going to end up as Marlo to Jeffrey's Avon. God help us all.
1) who is the spanish dude? seems like allied neighbour from next county along, but lannister raped and killed his relatives so he hates them? am i close?
2) what happened to him out of skins? can't remember if he's alive or dead, remember something about sexy leeches.
3) who's next in line to be king? if joffrey has a little brother who were the 2 lannister kids who got killed by somebody ages ago?
4) what exactly is stannis doing apart from having parties with his weird cult? is he building an army or just pissing about? is he anywhere near theons family or theon's capturers? is he friends with any of them?
no book wankers please.
1) Duh! He's been MENTIONED!
i'll see if they know
you can't google it because you get loads of spoilers
they're from DORNE which is in the south of the seven kingdoms and really hot so they all look latino. His sister married Rhaegar Targaryen and had some kids but then the rebellion happened and Tywin ordered the mountain to go and kill them all which he did, after raping thingy's sister.
2) Dunno, alive somewhere.
3) Technically the guy from skins? But it'll probably pass to joffrey's brother i guess, cant remember what his name is but they got a new/better actor to play him this season so i guess he says more stuff.
4) dunno. Was meant to be doing something about the white walkers.
Dunno why i'm typing this either. Just hate to see people suffering i gues.
they were some unimportant lannister kids, like cousins or some shit
got any questions for me?
And hope the episode reviews I read cover it all.
2. Davos helped him ("his name is Gendry") escape at the end of Season 3 to prevent Melisandre sacrificing him.
3. Theoretically Tommen (Joffrey's brother). Of course he's really not Robert's son, so the throne should still go to Stannis as Robert's brother. The two Lannister kids were just random relatives, killed by one of Robb's followers as revenge for the death of his son.
4. At the end of Season 3 Davos and Melisandre convinced Stannis to go north to fight the white walkers. Stannis is at Castle Black on the Wall. He's several hundred miles northish of Theon's capturers, who are at the Dreadfort. Theon's family are a lot further south, at the Iron Islands in Ironman's Bay. See map: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/e/e7/Map_of_westeros.jpg
Stannis is not friends with any of them (the Ironmen aren't allied to anyone, and Theon's capturers, the Boltons, were formerly Stark vassals who switched sides to help the Lannisters. Either way, no friends of Stannis).
good one, George.
Scotland up north. Hadrian's Wall with the barbarians beyond it. Bit racist, George.
delete this^ fidel.
ALL OF YOU
and of course red herrings are par for the course but watched it again:
magery's mum (aunt? gran? whatever) saying to sansa killing a king at
'kiling a king at a wedding, how awful' then sansa does a little knowing look.
why does cersei send the doctor away? has he been a weirdy perv before?
don't know exactly what the bodyguards remit is, but jaime was wandering around in the background the whole wedding, not really anywhere near the main table. good alibi.
robson and jerome is up to something too.
and he pretends to be more feeble than he is, as seen in the scene where he bones Ros in the earlier seasons.
Yeah I pointed it out up there. I'm starting to think its her. She certainly seems cunning enough.
so it could've been in there which widens the net even more
Also known as Mrs James Bond...
The cup was right in front of her before Tyrion picked it up. If he gets screwed over for this so help me I'm going to fuck shit up, I've had enough of him getting grief
I actually just thought it was clearly her until someone at work started to point out there were about 10 other possible explanations. So I'm still sticking with her.
Would Margaery not remain queen with Joffrey dead? I figured that was her motive but now thinking this might be a bit stupid.
That way it'll work perfectly for the Tyrells. They keep power and remove the sociopath in the process. Tywin will be keen to renew their alliance as well given they appear to be rich (I've no idea what the 'Iron Bank' is but I gathered those conversations last week implied the Lannisters are in debt).
I'm convinced it was Olenna too now btw. Rewatched both episodes last night with a mate who was catching up, and have formed my own theory. Reckon it might have something to do with the necklace mentioned in episode 1. She definitely had help though- I'm thinking Varys. Also think Margeary was in on it- she kept eyeing Joffrey suspiciously.
remember when Tyrion became Lord of Coin mid season 3 ish, or whatever the hell that title is, and it turned out Littlefinger had just been borrowing loads and loads of money?
yeah, it was from them
it's a massive, massive red herring if it's not involved at all, at least.
reckon the help came from the jester
He was definitely aware that something was about to happen.
When Olenna spoke to Sansa (and made the tongue in cheek "how horrid" line) I'm sure she fiddled with her necklace... Presumably the same necklace the jester gave her last week? Hmmm...
I'm no book wanker, I'm only going on the TV evidence fidel may or may not have posted. God this is stressful, I'm gonna go back to my Mad Men thread and talk to myself there, much more chill
As I was already suspecting Olenna. Pretty sure this theory holds up. All a bit CSI: Westeros though.
Need a good panning shot of Jamie crouched over Joffery with sunglasses on.
So that rules out all the men.
although I didn't think it was a man anyway.
bet he gets all sorts of abuse
appaz he's really lovely, but does get a lot of abuse chucked at him in public =(
"aye I'm the king what the fuck are you about?"
Saw an interview where he refers to it as the 'role of a lifetime' and all the abuse he gets in real life just makes it even better.
I HATE HIM SO
in a way - affirmation of a job phenomenally well done.
Only criticism of any of it was the swagger post pouring wine on Tyrion - he went a little bit teen drama with it and for me it wasn't quite smug enough? I don't know if that makes sense. It just seemed not quite in character, after previously being pretty faultless.
I'd milk it for all it's worth
Is Rust there?
Take that Joffrey. I was hoping he would be strung up by his own intestines or something, but dying such a pathetic death at his own wedding is incredibly fitting.
Sansa poisoned Joffrey, the fool gave her the necklace and she discovered that it contained poison, so she poisoned him with it. Pretty much cracked it there so I have.
Like the tyrells?
pretty sure he died a virgin. UNLUCKY PAL.
Even though it's fiction this still feels horrible, especially as I pure loved Ros. :(
Just remembered that scene. Fucking hell I hate this programme sometimes.
love, Book Wanker
Ros is even fucking better in the book.
I heard Ros was like a composite of four different hookers in the books.
Anyway, enough book chat before I ban us all.
WOW I forgot about that
especially where it isn’t even present in the books, which are already uncomfortably heavy on it
I've not watched it yet but a few people have mentioned this aspect of episode 3 and I didn't really want to be massively disappointed so I looked up spoilers (I'm ill and getting through loads of work and Game of Thrones was the only thing making me want to get this thing finished).
regardless of how many/few lines they have...?
Also, which three characters do you think are un-kill-able until the absolute climax of the series? Tywin, Tyrion and Arya for me.
Also also, they get a lot of stick but I <3 Sam and Gilly. So cute.
Thought his speech/conversation with Tommen was cracking.
littlefinger is fucking terrible at acting eh
So a smart take on this might be that outside the capital he no longer has to hide his accent and that but yes that was awful.
like, he started off with his family living near the vale, which is kind of wales, then he went off to live in riverrun, the other side of the country, and probably also tried to put on a posher accent there and in king's landing so it makes sense for it to be messed up
but it's just kind of rubbish
Yeah i thought that was a really poor episode. It might have been ok i guess but it was ruined for me by a totally gratuitous rape scene which again completely ruins a nuanced and ambiguous character. Cant believe they actually did that
back in episode 1 when he tried to murder a small child.
my initial take was that it was a clumsy and gratuitous reminder that Jamie was still a complete shitbag, when we'd clearly been pushed to sympathise with him more and more since he lost his hand.
Then the director claimed the rape was in fact "consensual by the end" which made things a lot more confusing and a lot more grim, given that what was shown on camera was *clearly* rape. My gut reaction is that that's probably a hasty lie in the face of the reaction to the scene, but...
The Av club has a great article on this and the Vulture also has one, and an interview with the director. No links as I'm on mobile, soz.
"consensual by the end"
and ignore that he y'know, has just raped cersei.
totally gross to see the director/other people being like OH BUT WAS IT RAPE too and to see a lot of people being like 'whats the big deal' cos they think cersei is a BITCH.
(could all you book people here tread carefully in this nonbook thread though please? I don't think I've ever simultaneously wished I was reading them and been so glad I wasn't)
and unnecessary to me - and pretty sure it wasn't in the books (I certainly don't recall it)
No matter how big a 'shit' Jamie is, he loves Cersei and I just don't think his character would do that and it does feel like a kind of ham fisted 'oh wait, remember, this guy is a cunt as well' inclusion.
There were some good bits in last nights episode (Tyrion and Pod basically), but most/pretty much all of it was pretty throwaway/set up for future events and was therefore a pretty disappointing one. Mind you, after last weeks it was probably always destined to be a little more muted.
it was in the book
"I was in the book"
I got tully :(
that I honestly don't remember. I know that the sex happened, but from what I remember, she was hesitant but then consented (still dodgy territory), but not as graphic or violent? Like I say I can't remember it that well and will have to look out the book later.
It was consentual
It's a scene from Jamie's perspective, for one thing, and even GRRM has always said that he left it deliberately unclear. Secondly, and I feel like I'm living up to type in pointing this out, it doesn't matter who initiates it
She kissed him. A light kiss, the merest brush of her lips on his, but he could feel her tremble as he slid his arms around her. “I am not whole without you.”
There was no tenderness in the kiss he returned to her, only hunger. Her mouth opened for his tongue. “No,” she said weakly when his lips moved down her neck, “not here. The septons…”
“The Others can take the septons.” He kissed her again, kissed her silent, kissed her until she moaned. Then he knocked the candles aside and lifted her up onto the Mother’s altar, pushing up her skirts and the silken shift beneath. She pounded on his chest with feeble fists, murmuring about the risk, the danger, about their father, about the septons, about the wrath of gods. He never heard her. He undid his breeches and climbed up and pushed her bare white legs apart. One hand slid up her thigh and underneath her smallclothes. When he tore them away, he saw that her moon’s blood was on her, but it made no difference.
“Hurry,” she was whispering now, “quickly, quickly, now, do it now, do me now. Jaime Jaime Jaime.” Her hands helped guide him. “Yes,” Cersei said as he thrust, “my brother, sweet brother, yes, like that, yes, I have you, you’re home now, you’re home now, you’re home.” She kissed his ear and stroked his short bristly hair. Jaime lost himself in her flesh. He could feel Cersei’s heart beating in time with his own, and the wetness of blood and seed where they were joined.
"As for your question... I think the "butterfly effect" that I have spoken of so often was at work here. In the novels, Jaime is not present at Joffrey's death, and indeed, Cersei has been fearful that he is dead himself, that she has lost both the son and the father/ lover/ brother. And then suddenly Jaime is there before her. Maimed and changed, but Jaime nonetheless. Though the time and place is wildly inappropriate and Cersei is fearful of discovery, she is as hungry for him as he is for her.
The whole dynamic is different in the show, where Jaime has been back for weeks at the least, maybe longer, and he and Cersei have been in each other's company on numerous occasions, often quarreling. The setting is the same, but neither character is in the same place as in the books, which may be why Dan & David played the sept out differently. But that's just my surmise; we never discussed this scene, to the best of my recollection.
Also, I was writing the scene from Jaime's POV, so the reader is inside his head, hearing his thoughts. On the TV show, the camera is necessarily external. You don't know what anyone is thinking or feeling, just what they are saying and doing.
If the show had retained some of Cersei's dialogue from the books, it might have left a somewhat different impression -- but that dialogue was very much shaped by the circumstances of the books, delivered by a woman who is seeing her lover again for the first time after a long while apart during which she feared he was dead. I am not sure it would have worked with the new timeline.
That's really all I can say on this issue. The scene was always intended to be disturbing... but I do regret if it has disturbed people for the wrong reasons."
It's a bit more suggesting of consent than I remembered. Have you got access to the wider text - is there any more before that bit? I'm sure I remember Jamie's actions being pretty despicable in the run up to it..?
in the books it's the first time they've seen each other since his return.
Whereas in the show he's seen her and been rejected by her previously. Which makes it even less likely to have been consensual.
it's the first time they see each other, afterwards he asks her to marry him.
gonna upgrade 'really poor episode' to 'abysmal car-crash of an episode'.
Ignoring how offensive it is, I think the reason the rape scene is so ridiculous is that there's no basis in his character for Jaime doing it. The whole point of game of thrones is that characters follow a sort of dialectic that's determined by their moral codes. Jaime's is that he does good when he can, but has that tendency overridden whenever it clashes with his love for Cercei. RAPING HER DOESNT FIT INTO THIS AT ALL. So fucking stupid.
There were loads of other shit things about it. The scene with arya and the hound was similar to Jaime's, in that the hound has NEVER been a belligerent prick who interrupts people for no reason etc. I actually couldn't believe that they'd got him not only to steal from some guy, but to actually acknowledge that they're completely contradicting the character that he was TWO EPISODES AGO. Also wtf even is littlefinger's accent anymore, jesus.
Did someone new write the script or something? This is the only reason I can think of why this was so bad.
Jaime does good when he can?!
The hound is a prick,but he's not a chippy cunt. Dunno if it happens in the book but doesn't matter. The tv program has also obvs pushed the view that any bad he's done is down to his obligation to and love for cercei
Hate using my phone to post on dis. Also the post below was darwindude, sorry guys
Sorry, you've been watching a different TV show to me.
It's also a kinda-baffling reading of Jamie's character. He doesn't give a shit about doing good. He does whatever he wants, because he's a privileged, cocky little shit who can fight - or, at least, he was.
He does good whenever doing good fits in with that.
And looking at it more widely: I don;t agree at all that this a clumsy reversal of a character arc. One of the things that I love about this series is that is shows the idea of 'character arcs' up as they are in most TV to be complete and utter bullshit.
Jamie's lost a hand. He can't fight. He can't do the one thing he does well. He failed so spectacularly in this that his son - the king - is dead. He's been completely broken down on all of the criteria that he thinks are important. Like so many of the powerful men in this world, he immediately took his frustration out in a very physical way on someone vulnerable. Which often happens to be a woman in westeros. And in this, case, perhaps the most powerful woman in westeros.
I think a lot of the frustration about this comes from the idea that goodies should be goodies. And I wonder about the comments from the director, too: the scene we saw wasn't in line with what he said. I wonder if GRRM had a hand in it at the production stage.
"One of the things that I love about this series is that is shows the idea of 'character arcs' up as they are in most TV to be complete and utter bullshit."
it doesn't do that at all?? it obviously subverts 'hollywood', conventional, cliched arcs and that's obviously part of its appeal, but every single death of a main character in the show has been precisely because of who that character fundamentally is and how that shapes and changes the rest of their lives, including the less fundamental bits of their personality (and thus brings about their downfall).
I mean, that's a bunch of really strong character arcs right there. And i think your idea of jaime is pretty outdated from a non-book-wanker pov. "He does whatever he wants, because he's a privileged, cocky little shit who can fight" is what we were supposed to think, which was exactly why his storyline in s3 had any sort of power to it at all. He's cocky and privileged, but is completely constrained in what he can do. The only times he's noticeably done something purely out of 'choice' is e.g. when he killed the king to save king's landing or saved brienne from getting raped/killed by a bear. Even when he murdered his relative in s2, it was justified this series by Cersei criticising him for not coming sooner. Yeah, the whole point in s3 for him was to show that he's totally constrained by two conflicting moral codes, which i thought was great, and interesting, and good for the future of his character as his circumstances e.g. with cersei changed. Why completely ruin that with a totally superfluous rape scene that is only reasonable if you degrade his character to 'privileged, does what he wants, lost his power so lashed out?'. That's so basic, no offence.
but you seem to have decided your interpretation of what we see jamie do onscreen is the only correct one (despite the fact that you really do seem to be an outlier in your read) and are laying down massive angry screeds at anyone who disagrees. Maybe you've read jamie wrong?
that always reads like the spanish hai-mee to me. Fair play tho, people who misspell Cersei drive me nuts.
i thought i was just having an in-depth debate about a tv programme and a potentially problematic rape scene, but apparently that makes me either a nerd or someone with serious anger issues.
no offence. anyway there's an actual answer down there
Mainly because I don't know where you've got this idea that Jamie's character is about moral codes. That is exactly what he is not about. He has no code. This is made explicit in his conversations with Brienne. The message is that being able to live the way he did in that world was a function of his physical prowess and his position; he was built up as this no-rules, no-code anti-hero, the antithesis of Brienne - just doing what he wanted and carving a path through the world. And it was all paper thin. Being knocked down from that position of power and privilege doesn't give him an understanding of the harsh reality of life and put him on a path to redemption, as per every piece of hollywood schmaltz ever; it makes him cruel and utterly hateful.
And re: arcs. The way that it breaks them down is by showing that whatever changes happen - or don't happen - to a character, they're still constrained by the horrible world and society they live in. I would argue that the main driver of deaths in main characters is less their core personality than the fact that they weren't in touch with the realities of westeros. And yes, I feel stupid saying that about a fictional realm. They're character tropes, painted by broad strokes, dropped into a world that destroys them, or worse, twists them into something awful.
i'd agree if you said it's a pretty weak moral code, but i'd say that's because his love for cersei and to an extent his family in general is so overriding that it doesn't get much of a look-in except for when they're apart (killing the king, saving brienne).
I think your thing about arcs doesn't necessarily contradict mine. I suppose I'd also say that the way GRRM seems to have written it allows for multiple legitimate perspectives on it or emphasis on certain aspects etc, but then i'm just going on the tv show and trying to understand what the source material was going for based on that so whatever.
you can be pedantic if you want, but yeah i guess if you really think that there's precedent in the show for him acting like he did this episode then we must have been watching a different show, except its YOU WHO IS THE WRONG IDIOT
in the book (I've not read all the books so im not actually a book wanker, fidel), dany isn't actually raped by khal drogo. there's several paragraphs about how she's getting aroused and then she specifically "yes" before they shag. in the tv programme there is no consent. I mean, even in the book it's not great but they definitely turned consensual sex into non-consensual sex.
to root for a right pair of pricks. Which is testament to the quality of the writing on the show, no?
raping anyone would be out of character for jaime, it's shown so many times how much he despises rape and rapists
- he saw the effect of robert repeatedly raping cersei throughout their marriage and couldn't do anything to stop it, he also actually recognises marital rape as rape
- he hated aerys targaeryen for raping his wife
- his hand was cut off because he tried to stop brienne being raped
there are a few more very clear instances of this still to come and they're not going to be able to pull them off anymore. they've also fucked up whatever kind of love interest thing is being stirred up with brienne for me.
Did enjoy the sky go adverts after That Scene telling us that we could watch various bits of GoT in the bath, or in the bedroom. Like, I'm pretty sure there's only one bit of *that* episode anyone's sneaking off to watch in private =D
I'm sure we can handle this...
that was considerably less rapey though
ultimately Deny's thing though is that she's freeing slaves and they CHOOSE to fight for her, big difference whether or not it comes across
failing by dint of not being Bron
where you get about 4 minute snippets of each character per two weeks, but where you've got action like the Daenarys storyline, it means you get less character development.
to wit, i have no idea why we're supposed to believe that Daenarys has a soft spot for Daario. we just get told very occasionally that she does
stretching itself thinner and thinner every week. Think they should dedicate more time concentrating on certain characters per episode, with King's Landing the only constant
I mean in the last episode she started off by being relatively unimpressed by him before he turned on the charm with the flowers. Presumably all these things tie in to him trying to win her over rather than her harboring a soft spot for him.
not heard this before :D
seriously he must actually be magic. no one can be that successful being that bad at what they do.
he sounds like full-on sccchhttteeve mclaren's plugged himself into stephen hawking
subthread: in the first episode he was in he sort of shagged his assistant and then it never came up again. was anyone else a bit confused by this?
he may have been a kind of opportunistic co-conspirator but that's it, surely?
Did that whole 'chaos is a ladder' talk before and something about building stuff on ashes. It's beneficial to him if Westeros is in disarray.
Also- he loved Caitlyn, and I suppose Joffrey was responsible for her death (or is at least claiming credit for it), so it's revenge of sorts.
I'd also assume he got some kind of financial benefit out of planning it- which I why I still think Olenna was involved. She basically told Margeary this week that she's now in a much better situation because she's not married to a psychopath- so that's her motive. Still think she got the poison from the necklace into Joffrey's wine.
of your last point
I disagree. Bits I liked:
- Tywin, and Charles Dance, just absolutely owning that scene. Loved the way he was talking to Tommen but everything he said was directed at Cersei. Cold, cold bastard.
- Olenna line about all the terrible things that happen being "a tray of cakes next to death". Her and Tywin should have a spin-off show really.
- Ser Davos's line about a a smuggler not being very good if he's famous. Pretty sure he's going to die soon though, he's too nice.
- The whole wildling invasion scene. I like the fact you saw it from the villagers perspective. Showed how much of an evil murderous bastard Ygritte actually is. These new cannibal guys are pretty fucking evil even by GoT standards.
Bits I didn't like:
- the rape. I think a lot has been written about this already so can't add much- what I will say is that it will be hard to tell if this scene was misjudged until we see the effects of it on both Jaime and Cersei in the coming episodes. I don't think it seems "out of character" for Jaime though, and I don't see the issue with the writers deviating from the books if they ultimately deal with the characters differently.
- Littlefinger. Just shit acting.
- New Daario- he's dreadful. Meant to be this cool arrogant warrior guy but he just looks like a stoner dude who's ended up in Westeros by accident. Completely unconvinced that he could kill anyone tbh.
- the whole Daenerys storyline is pissing me off, and it's not necessarily her own fault. We used to see quite a lot of her and Jorah and co and it allowed their characters to develop, now they just get tacked on for 5 minutes at the end of an episode- that's it. Feels a bit rushed.
just felt a bit disjointed at times, like it was moving things along and was just doing basic, here is what's happening so that we can all be up to date for the next things that are going to happen. Not bad, just not good as we're perhaps used to, and that rape scene really soured it for me, and I think a lot of people.
I'll say again though, love Pod and Tyrion and thought their scene was great, and agree with all of your good points too.
That was very good too. I liked the way Tyrion's monologue about potential suspects read a bit like this thread up there^^
Also: "They! The ominous they!" :D
Treme got cancelled
Jaime made the effort to stop Brienne from being raped so it does sort of seem out of character. It could indeed a great deception but the fact that it's divergent from the book is troubling because this will either re-write Jaime entirely or they'll have forgotten about it by next week
But I don't think it's beyond the scope of his character.
The fact that he saved Brienne from being raped by the Bolton guys is irrelevant because 1) just because he saved Brienne from being raped it doesn't mean he isn't capable of the act himself; 2) he saved Brienne before his hand was chopped off (in fact- it was the reason his hand was chopped off) which I think we can all agree has changed him a little; 3) he felt guilty about Brienne's plight for many reasons- because he'd been mocking her for one. This current scenario is different- it's clear he feels emasculated- impotent even- since returning to King's Landing. He can't fight, and given Cersei has been ignoring him he can't fuck either- the two things which make him feel like a man. This is a classic power thing I think, trying to make him feel like the great knight of the realm again by raping one of the few people he knows will be powerless to stop him.
My concern is the same as yours though- that they ignore it next week. Let's wait and see.
but I think the most worrying thing is the director doesn't think it was a rape scene when it unquestionably was.
Hopefully the show writers have a bit more of a clue of overall direction.
but it doesn't make it any less of an incredibly misguided view which has sullied the episode by some distance. but I agree, we'll just have to see how much damage it has done/will do
but so far it looks like same old, same old; white female ruler 'liberates' former ethnic minority slaves for her own means, now developing unconvincing love interest with random warrior guy. It was nice to see Tywin make a reference to her this week, can't remember the last time anyone in King's Landing did so?
Dany's story would be the one I'd most look forward to and now it's just repetitive
I think it's because she is just taking slave cities now. They need to forward her personality a bit more. Add a bit more tension between Daario and Syr Friendzone.
Stannis doesn't deserve Davos.
great episode for quotes, some of which i will cut and paste from websites now.
"The world is overflowing with horrible things, but they’re all a tray of cakes next to death."
"Say what you will of Cersei, she loves her children. She is the only one I’m certain had nothing to do with this murder, which makes it unique as King’s Landing murders go."
"How can a man not keep ale in his home?"
"Give it to to my father, he never fails to take advantage of a family tragedy."
"I would like to think that if I were arranging a royal assassination, I’d plan it in such a way that I wouldn’t be standing there gawking like a fool when the king died."
"You are the worst shit in the Seven Kingdoms!"
"Your father lacks an appreciation of the finer points of bad behavior."
and so on.
interactive map with spoiler control:
Very handy as a reminder for who's ended up where
so maybe some people might prefer to avoid it
But so long as you do that, there aren't any spoilers
although now it only appears added to the list if I select the books and go to the appropriate chapter, so this should be fine.
it was you!
I said nothing that wasn't off the back of you drawing attention to something.
You just can't help yourself can you? tsk tsk
if I wasn't worried the entire thread would just completely disappear again
'The forum section of the website, full of 'Nuts readers with record collections' has at the helm of the 'social' (I use that term loosely) board a 'character' who goes by a poorly punned pseudonym for the communist dictator, Fidel Castro. He lives up to this name by going around and preaching equality and fairness while simultaneously deleting posts of users he doesn't like and making numerous sexist-but-I'm-not-sexist comments, oblivious to his own privilege and ignorance, feeling warm in the reflective light of his own smug grin.'
Read More: http://www.thefmash.com/lindahellum-alexander/indie-music-website-breeds-new-type-of-sexist-nice-guy
Moved on a lot of plot lines really well, when there's this many characters with stories all going on at the same time it's bound to be a bit messy.
it appears 70% of the 8 surveyed just sort of went 'grim eh, game of thrones isn't it' in response to the jamie-cersei incident. None were aware of the internet storm on all the media sites around the episode.
I thought it was normal to watch an episode and then check avclub, grantland etc for analysis but seems i am now in the minority of what a show that has properly crossed over from uber geeks to everyone
I read this thread more for the 'discussions' but that's the same way I discuss this programme with people at work/friends to be honest. None of them have brought up the Jaime-Cersei incident, in fact the incident with the dogs at the beginning of the last episode seems to be far more discussed as 'shocking' and a reason to be put off the show.
I didn't think the Jaime-Cersei scene was particularly 'gratuitous', (but then again I wrote a 5000 word essay on Irreversible once so maybe my views on how 'graphic' a scene like that is are slightly warped) I just assumed it was something that happened in the book that was being presented on screen. I don't think it was any grimmer than many of things that have happened throughout the seasons so far, and I definitely don't think it was presented in a way that made you 'side with attacker' for want of a better phrase.
However, I don't think the directors quotes should have any effect on how I view the episode, especially as I have no interest in searching out his opinions. He seems to have said something pretty stupid but it's still in isolation afaic.
you should read this column over on grantland each week though, it explains all the confusing names/houses/places/feuds and history that turns up each week without spoiling anything.
As someone who hasn't read the books i've found it really helped my enjoyment of the show
I absolutely love Grantland, I guess I just don't really like trying to guess what's coming next that much though so tend to just avoid these things, I like to just be surprised episode-to-episode. Discussing in between with people usually helps to remember any bits I might have missed/got confused by, but I just don't wanted to get bogged down in millions of theories.
Probably just cos I have a mate that does this and he completely ruined True Detective for himself reading into it constantly and being sold on the idea of 'tropes' and all that shit rather than just enjoying the damn programme ha.
True Detective was the worst possible program to do this on, huh.
apart from looking at threads in here sometimes I don't read around what I watch. I think if I had I would have hated Breaking Bad and True Detective.
it's the fact that it's:
a) a clear and pretty odd (for now at least) diversion from the source material
b) the director doesn't think it's a rape scene when it clearly, clearly is.
Not saying people shouldn't have those discussions in here but I'm just responding to Noblet's point that 'most people' aren't having these discussions.
which I think would be appropriate given the lead-up and the fact that she was stood by her son's deathbed. I just think the actors didn't play it quite right to give the scene that kind of ambiguity.
I don't really get the complaints that it's too divergent from the books, as it's diverged quite considerably already in some important scenes (Red Wedding), or that it's out of character for Jaime (he's a nasty piece of work, even if you've grown to like him in the last couple of seasons) or that it's somehow too extreme or gratuitous for GoT (a world where strong men take what they want).
I'll tread carefully here
I'm not really bothered about the divergence from the books: it would obviously have to happen (even more so from next season onwards), but I think that the potential change in tone for Jaime's character is stark. I don't think the writers and director have meant to do this (I hope)
As mentioned further up, Jaime has had a movement from massively arrogant and nasty arsehole towards realisation and redemption. He saved Brienne from rape, has shown remorse about his role in the "Rape" of Kings landing at the end of Robert Bareathons rebellion, and has started on the path to honor.
Changing that affects the course of the character massively over the next few seasons
so much as the totally needless use of rape as a plot/character development device. the vulture and the av club both have really solid pieces on this if you're interested in seeing why people are irked.
Think it nails it. The intent was to make the scene consensual, but it appears to have not been taken as such by the majority of the watching public, especially those of us who are Book wankers
Also, the directors comment the sex was "consensual by the end", bit of a ropey comment isn't it?
actually the more I think about it it's actually almost the worst possible thing you could say?
Yeah, it's pretty horrid thing to say: rather like Ken Clarke and his "different degrees of rape" quote for a few years back
it's getting so unwieldy I sort of fancy starting a new one for next week. utter pain on mobile.
take a look upthread for GRRM's response posted by jonny_rat though, it's pretty thoughtful and classy.
but her acting was terrible this week. loads of comedy mugging and gurning - sort it out luv!
Jaime's a twat, the director misjudged the scene, can we never mention this incident again please?
There was a lot to love about this episode and quite a few ropey bits, but it was no more imbalanced than several episodes since S2 I reckon. Remember how boring Robb and nursewife was?? Stop with the kneejerk reactions.
I'll be in here remembering simpler times if anyone needs me http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/social/4279260
I'm just going to pretend that that whole scene last week never existed, because that's how it's being written and I want to keep enjoying the show.
The Bran scene was either spoiling the books or just going it's own way from them but I mostly really liked it. Hodor though :(
Brienne is looking slick there too
with like the high council others or whoever they were. Not so keen on them going out of their way to threaten even more characters with rape but you come to expect it by now, we'll see how it goes anyway.
with spoiler information that HBO put up by accident and then hastily took off their website. I've deleted it just in case people get upset.
Was anyone surprised by that point?
who are no longer in the show!!! (spoilers)
How many more TV Series' worth of books are there?
Five books have been published so far, and GRRM has said that he plans for it to take another two books to complete the series, although it's possible that it could take another three.
The producers of the TV show have suggested that they would like to be able to cover all of that in eight series, which would mean that the TV series will finishes before the last book is out.
From that, it might suggest that they are adapting one book per series, but it's not quite as simple as that. The more recent series have started to dot around the overall arc, which you can see in this graph: http://i.imgur.com/lceExOP.jpg