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that's sad, RIP.
not the most popular figure on the right but heck he was a committed union man in the best possible way
And leave the petty political sniping for a little longer?
is that neither left no right have a monopoly on pre-emptive offense. or pre-emptive offense at pre-emptive offense. Or pr*head explodes*
Just to fuck up everyone's morning one last time
just above Jonathan Ross
I demand proof of death (life)
Seems TV still rules the roost of "breaking news"
At least someone genuinely deserving can have his council house.
Last RMT fella died young and in post too didn't he...
But, still, very sad. I didn't like the bloke but it's reassuring to know that the death of a union leader can still be headline news.
Don't besmirch my name with the sort of UBERCUNT who thinks the first thing they should do on someone's death is update a fucking online encyclopedia. JFC!
Wikipedia wasn't updated within seconds
is the people linking to a search on 'no more strikes, then'.
its nearly all people saying ''cue 'no more strikes!' comments'' and much fewer people actually saying 'no more strikes!'. i know thats how it works with things like ''moyes out'' but it just feels a bit..unseemly here.
i'm going to make a cuppa and see what happens
Both right and left
he was massively effective at his job.
And 52 is no age to die.
who paid photographers to follow him around on holiday a couple of weeks ago has had any doubts about that now he's had a massive heart attack?
You wonder if an editor who signed up to a job making crazy amounts of cash to leave his integrity behind indefinitely is suddenly remorseful? He's probably sorting out as many pap's for the funeral as possible.
very sad news
Whether you liked his politics or not, he certainly fought for the rights of the workers he was elected to represent
Well, see you guys later anyway!
Sure, I didn't agree with much of his politics, but the fact that so many on the right hate(d) him was testament to how effective he was.
Christ, 52 is no age at all.
Didn't always agree with him but he fought hard for what he believed in and who he was representing.
fought very hard for a good cause and, whilst I was never his biggest fan, will be missed because of it.
and politics aside, 52 is no age.
but whenever someone dies you get lots of people on dis saying "xx is no age". (Put this into google site:drownedinsound.com/community/boards/social "is no age" ) What IS an age to die? What's the cut-off? 65?
but i'd say roughly the age at which they're likely to have lived to see their children grow up (to graduate or whatever)
74? Probably anything significantly below that to be honest.
But, yeah, bit of a funny hair to split.
but there are a lot of cliches/rituals around death, and most of them are positive.
From memory, creaky is older than 52 isn't he? So I guess you guys could rationalise it in terms of how shocked you'd be if creaky just keeled over suddenly. Personally 52 is too close to comfort to my own age (albeit not that close) so it hits me pretty much in the gut too, particularly when you get into your forties and start getting the mystery symptoms that come along with middle-age.
Of course you're right. Nobody says of a murdered child "ten is no age to die", but psycholigically those sort of deaths are mentally categorised by people in a different way. If I had to "classify" a death in early fifties I would reference it to things like youngish families left without a breadwinner, people still at the peak of their careers denied the pleasures of retirement and not least the shock that comes from being suddenly and unexpectedly bereaved. Many of those factors don't come into play with those dying younger or older.
"I guess you guys could rationalise it in terms of how shocked you'd be if creaky just keeled over suddenly."
I laughed so much at this.
hmm makes you think.
...although I can't remember exactly when that was so that's no helpful really.
so I think it's reasonable to say that 25 years sooner than that is no age to die.
I also think that it's reasonable to wish that everyone lives long enjoy to enjoy a retirement, if they want one.
might lead to one or two problems.
doesn't mean that we should look at them like that when they happen
Good reason not to say 'I hope we never have another natural disaster', though.
Not that it has any impact at all. Never mind.
Maybe a little higher now.
The only word I keep going over in my head is "integrity". Proper old school bloke with socialist principles. Agree or not, he wasn't full of bullshit.
I know people said the same thing about Thatcher, but I felt she was very much heartless about human error and the vulnerable, whereas Bob seemed different.
I dunno. Just sad times man.
Someone give the man a hug...
but fucking hell Bob Crow. Something particularly irksome about someone who's ostensibly on the same side as you compulsively behaving like a complete tool. Abrasive, divisive, unpleasant. Truly the Dan Ormsby of left-wing politics.
(full disclosure: he’s someone my family have known for years), but…
If you doubt the efficacy of him being a bit of an arsehole – which he undoubtedly could be (as well as, worst of all, a Millwall fan) – then just look at the condition of the workers he represented compared to those in comparable jobs.
Postal workers, for example, used to go on strike whenever privatisation was on the agenda. When they stopped going on strike they let the Royal Mail get sold for a pittance in return for a handful of shares and – in time – a shitload of job losses. As someone said upthread, there’s a reason tube drivers get abuse for supposedly being well-paid and he was extremely effective at his job. That was partly, and very consciously, because of his abrasive approach.
Not withstanding the fact the postal industry is a different bag to the rail industry.
The way I see it, Bob Crow was able to argue successfully for increased pay for tube workers to (rightfully in my view) bring them in line with the rest of the rail network. Royal Mail workers had no comparably easy frame of reference, for one.
Also, Royal Mail had been gradually mistreated and chipped away at for years and years by successive governments... blaming the workers for ceasing to strike leading directly to privatisation seems very, very unfair. Royal Mail was made a mess by years of government neglect and ridiculous part-privatisation.
I was just referring to the tactics of the union.
They got royally screwed over by successive governments. The point I was making was just that if they had a 1% chance of avoiding their fate it might have been under a stronger leadership as per Bob Crow's. It's not everything, but how many times have you heard the CWU Gen Sec on Newsnight or the Today programme?
might have steered Royal Mail away from some of the horrendous decisions that have blighted it over the last 20 years but, y'know, I don't think it'd have made a jot of difference given the breaking up and fragmenting of the postal service which has taken place.
but with the caveat that public opinion has been massively and consistently against Royal Mail privatisation throughout those 20 years. Something which - perhaps counter-intuitively - the CWU's old tactics of striking actually brought to the fore on a regular basis.
Anyway, walk away now, you're only making Royter stronger.
and extremely undervalued prices.
So it's kinda a Tory thang.
I just think that his approach, whilst working for him, was potentially damaging to the union in the long-term. Scargill showed that you can't fight the power indefinitely, and Crow's deliberately high-profile combative stance will make tube workers an easy target for the Tories. I don't think Boris was in any way unhappy to have Crow where he was...
and the bloke's just died so I'll shut up.
do you mean engaging in the art of irony by describing yourself perfectly while attempting to describe two other people?
SE London linking arms in grief yo
I didn't always agree with him but I liked the fact that there was someone who was firmly entrenched on the left supporting the unions. I wouldn't be surprised if his potential successor was far more of a moderate.
I didn't necessarily agree with his tactics (I feel the top brass at unions are sometimes too eager to strike, rather than building the wider societal coalitions we need to effect real change) but my god did he stick up for his workers with a determination and courage like nothing else. A lot of time for him.
allegedly he was actually fairly straightforward in his dealings with employers and a lot of the hardline rhetoric came from a desire to appease other senior personalities within the union. Plus, of course, as you say he was pretty successful in terms of defending union members.
You wouldn't get very far as a union rep or a union leader if you couldn't deal efficiently and conscientiously with the dozens of matters that arise between workers and management on a daily basis.
When I was management in a unionised company, the reps 'generally' had to manage employee expectations and thought the company was acting reasonably.
appreciate that a paid full-time union rep actually saves the tax payer or shareholder money, despite the chuntering from the likes of the Tax-payer's alliance.
ire about Trade Union Bosses remunerations in general are fucking laughable. Given the scope of the job and the amount of responsibility these positions have a salary of c. £120,000 actually seems pretty low.
The RMT has 80,000 members for fuck's sake. Any companies with a staff base that high would be paying their CEO 3 times that.
Seemed really good at his job. And it was nice to have a vocal, proper leftwing bloke around. I'm sure it affected the 'conversation'. Only really got apologetic leftwing people left now :(
for being 'good at his job' - as though this were enough in and of itself. Lots of bad men throughout history have been very good at their jobs; it is not of automatic virtue. No suggestion that Crow was a bad man, of course...
Tis a shame - he was a wonderful pantomime baddy - and he will be dearly missed. Whoever replaces him is unlikely to have the profile or the sense of presence.
Sleep well, friend.
You've lost your touch
"if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all"
so doesn't seem that strange
Its not liked he worked in IT.
Again, it is not something that should be automatically lauded in itself.
It's being lauded because when he was good at his job, hardworking families, with no other representatives, benefited.
and a patronising assertion that people are unable to represent themselves, you are getting closer to the point of why he is admired by some.
probably should just disband them all then.
the unions & Crow to represent them, many workers would be absolutely steamrollered by their employers? And therefore anyone effective at this is representing the will of the people they fight for?
...uh, you win this round?
but a person is never left with 'no other representative' as each individual is able to represent themselves (whether this is effective or not is a separate issue).
Lucky that contracts haven't been allowed to hugely, disproportionately favour the employer I guess!
I feel like to be a good Union leader the two are very much linked.
which is a good thing to be good at doing.
once so full of energy and mischief, that can't even muster the energy to lick itself clean anymore. It's just tragic. And there's shit everywhere.
Theo, can you put him out of his misery?
He seemed alright. Very passionate, surprisingly eloquent and kind of intimidating. Seemed like the kind of guy you'd like to have in charge in a perilous situation amongst a group of strangers, like if your cruise ship was overtaken by pirates or something. RIP.
how he qualified to live in a 'council house' whilst on £145k ? I'm assuming he just paid full market rent for the property to the council? Fair play to him for wanting to stick to his roots, The Daily Mail love to bring it up at any opportunity.
so you could move into one whilst you were eligible and then stay there regardless of how much you own.