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Preview here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=T72TopWbXJg
The tributes seem genuine and he almost has to stifle a tear, etc.
I look forward to what will essentially be begging. :D
with how shit the No campaign is going. Compare the approach to the referendum on AV - the Tories went all out with the campaigning for that shit. On Scotland it genuinely seems like Cameron can't really be arsed.
Dangerous times. Matthew Parris was saying the other day you can still get 4-1 on Scotland voting Yes. Definitely worth pumping a tenner on that from where I'm sitting.
given that they're largely despised by the majority of the electorate up here.
The best way for Cameron to damage the union further would be to go up to Scotland and properly try for it.
Not sure why he's doing this in London though...
won all those medals and waved the Union Jack etc, showing the 'importance' of the Union.
Kirstie Allsop's a tory?
she was a spokesperson on housing for them for a while, and went a bit 'Carol Vorderman' when she was on Question Time.
how anyone could not have a comprehensive knowledge of previous Conservative Party spokepeople on housing is completely beyond me too, marckee.
I can see it having the same effect as Clegg ultimately had on the AV Yes campaign. The majority of the cabinet would do better keeping their heads down on Scottish independence if they seriously believe in the "strength of the Union".
I guess he feels obligated as leader to say *something* whether it's the right move or politically is a separate matter. If he didn't say anything at all, he's get equally criticised.
Obviously you're a more legitimate spokesperson on the issue than I am, but I think in most voting people's heads the issue is more about `Westminster governance doesn't represent Scotland adequately` rather than `Get rid of the Tories`. As a result - Cameron's seeming lack of attentiveness only reinforces the former. If he's unable to act as a compelling spokesperson - the Better Together campaign needs someone who is. The only person I've seen having a crack is Eddie Izzard who's about as Scottish as a game of soggy biscuit.
Currently it seems to be the Yes campaign's greatest asset is the set up of the Better Together campaign. Quite amusing. But this is just my thoughts from South of the Border. Not sure how it's playing out up there...
but the current UK government plays perfectly into that narrative anyway, seeing as it's comprised of two parties who weren't in the top two in Scotland. So any Tory campaigning kind of becomes doubly unattractive.
Happy to defer to the reading of things from someone directly affected. I'm just observing things from London, ultimately.
Who are the prominent leading spokespeople for Better Together in your observation? Salmond's getting plenty of airtime in the national press but I don't see anyone from the other side having the same cut through...
The bloke that Salmond won't debate with in person.
Darling is the chair of Better Together. His equivalent is probably Dennis Canavan the Yes chair.
Blair McDougall (Better Together director) and Blair Jenkins (Yes chief exec) have already debated together on TV. Nicola Sturgeon (Deputy FM & Strategy Minister) has debated on TV with Michael Moore (Secretary of State for Scotland). MM was subsequently given the heave ho, to be replaced with Alistair Carmichael, who put in an even worse performance than his predecessor when he had his TV debate with Sturgeon.
I'd quite like to see a head to head between Johann Lamont and Patrick Harvie.
Hence me mentioning Darling.
I'm happy to accept that Salmond and Darling aren't equivalent opposites, but then the line of "why won't Cameron come up and talk to Salmond" that that halfwit Sturgeon was blathering about this morning on Today is an equally facile one to take.
Oh. You don't have one, but fancied having a little cry.
"The referendum on Scottish independence is a matter for Scottish voters and politicians. As Prime Minister and someone who believes in the Strength of the Union I would prefer them to vote in favour of remaining a part of the United Kingdom, but I respect their right to both debate and vote on the matter for themselves."
Job done. It doesn't need a special press conference allocated to it in his diary.
...saying Cameron's gonna get a shinning no matter what he does. Must be a bit worrying for him though - it's not inconceivable that his legacy will be marked as being the PM who oversaw the break up of the UK.
Be interesting also from an EU referendum point of view. My hunch is that Scotland would vote quite strongly to stay in it - although I haven't seen any numbers on the issue. What would happen to the polls if Scotland went independent eh...
and just letting people make their own minds up, he'd piss more Scots off begging for them to stay
they should just use their Scottish MPs to do it, oh wait........
so that the Tories can rule Westminster/the rest of the UK forever more.
one on hand he probably really cares about the money and taxation that Scotland provides, what with the banks and oil etc... but then, as a party, the Tories really have no support in Scotland to speak of, so it probably seems pointless.
honestly, and i said it back in 2012, the best thing for the break up of the UK was a tory PM.
seeing as that's where the majority of doom-laden discourse re: Scottish independence = Tories forever comes from.
I was merely legitimising the source. A source which you don't trust simply because it is left wing, I believe.
The New Statesman is largely a fine read. George Eaton being particularly good in my view.
troll 'jokes' on here.
the UK (successor state) would have a Tory majority. Hung parliaments, as most political scientists who do do electoral stuff would tell you, are likely to become more common. Labour may have to form a minority government at some point soon - without Scottish MPS, do people actually not see the basic mathematics of this? Fewer Labour MPs = less chance of being the minority government in Westminster.
Bringing up the past 50 years of elections in the UK, as if there's some sort of natural lifecycle to British voting behaviour, is just really pointless and the sort of stupid crap that characterises the entire debate about Scottish independence. It's so boring and meaningless. The debate seems to be more about what the other side "has claimed" and everyone's just so fucking indignant about everything. Became too bored to even properly engage with it about a year ago.
[fwiw I'm against independence cause it would involve dividing the working class (particularly people in the N of England) and I don't think living standards in Scotland would increase cause I've not seen any compelling evidence of this. Whether it makes a Conservative all-out victory in a general election more likely (it does) is one thing but it also lessens the potential for political solidarity in many other ways. Scotland can have a 'progressive' (hate that word) effect on the rest of the UK.]
It's tempting to sneer at ^this. Because, for me, it's too bedded in theory without taking any account of reality.
c.f. recent pleas from Will Hutton & Owen Jones.
Their paeons to the peons miss the mark, though.
I can defo understand the sense of hope. And you're one of the good ones, DD. But the faith is invested in something that shows no sign whatsoever of coming to fruition.
So imma play the cards I've been dealt.
[back to sneer mode]
On the other hand, Labour MSPs Iain Gray and Jackie Baillie are definitely responsible for putting an end to the bedroom tax in Scotland.
So, hey, maybe /I'm/ the dreamer.
Like I could have a proper discussion with you about this in person maybe.
I'm not saying NO WE NEED TO BUILD FULL SOCIALISM AND ITS BETTER IF WE HAVE ENGLAND TOO. Don't think that's possible in either scenario. But the UK, as a whole, will in the long term be less equal if Scotland becomes independent.
(I know you already know this, but there are plenty who believe your jokes to be the actual state of affairs).
Whoever put it together needs to take a hard look at themselves.
But no-one ever said the truth is pretty. ;-)
It's an early one from the Graphical Yes blog. The more recent stuff is more polished (although I don't particularly endorse it as a whole - it has a tendency to stray into fonty indulgence that misses the point.)
No fucking sense
in response to nonsense claims.
But I'm pretty sure there's better
there's always the 'phone a friend to save the union' initiative.
Let's just take a moment to remember how well that went the last time it was done:
on it's membership of the United Kingdom, but that the United Kingdom should not be given a referendum on its membership of the European Union?
I'd hate to see anyone in this thread actually engage with you.
with a performance of The Boy Done Wrong Again was a bit much. See also a be-kilted Michael Gove walking on to accompany on bagpipes.
Fly free little bird
Fly free little bird
you're mine little turd