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And Hayden christansen might be the worst actor ever!!
theo's not gonna like this one
Nah, yer a'right
Wasn't sure if you were trying to get a rise or just confused. :D
I rewatched it recently though. The action scenes look ridiculously like a computer game. And obviously the dialogue's crap.
I quite like Hayden Christensen in Glass though so I don't think he's an irredeemably bad actor, awful though he is in the Star Wars films.
But yeah fuck me gently the dialogue is utter Pish!
But I pretty much agree with everyone else's criticism of it.
and from the snippets I've caught of him in other stuff Christiansienson doesn't seem a completely awful actor. George Lucas into character directing doesn't. Actually George Lucas into directing generally doesn't.
good sentencing there
Was just going to say Ray Park totally brings his A game.
his dialogue is terrible, the story is fucking boring, everyone else is shite. Also, is that the one with LOADS of the kid in it. Oh, the kids doing a race, oh the kids looking for his mum or whatever. Basically children ruin films, unless that film is Home Alone, or The Goonies or something
or the omen
I like the kid in The Shining. 'i'm not asposed to' hahaha. Good one kid
I only saw it recently, boycotted it for years on the grounds of the first two being so bad, but got the blu ray set. Thought it was pretty good, had the momentum of a proper star wars film and some good moments. Way too much CGI though, even R2 wasn't real
I say good but it IS Star Wars. Good for Star Wars.
nah, it's ok. i say this in most threads where people go overboard on average movies, but you guys really need to watch more actually terrible movies.
I think that's the most I've ever laughed on a Monday morning.
i like the constant misspelling of Hobbit as Hoppit
I mean the actually terrible movies you've seen never had the budget or studio backing to really be anything but.
Even the Transformers films are massive victims of an actively bad director combined with studio interference, I'd say, and the whole, "What sort of movie should we make"?
When you consider the prequels are basically completely independent, ridiculously well-funded films made by a man who should have been able to do better, there is an argument for saying they're far, far worse than just your regular POS terrible movie.
Still, Matrix 2 and 3 are worse.
And Theo is arguing about star wars on the internet.
All is well.
No changes there either, then.
Watching loads of bottom-shelf, straight-to-DVD flicks just to assuage your disappointment when a much hyped and anticipated Hollywood film fails to deliver.
I thought Revenge Of The Sith was way better than the preceeding two films, better than Return Of The Jedi even. It doesn't get a free pass compared to the other big films of the year though, just because VROOM ZWUMMM KSSSSH BIBBLY BEEP STAR WARS. I think people tend to forget that even the original trilogy were by and large films for kids.
I never understand this line of argument. ET is ostendibly a film for kids, so are Pixar's films, so is the original trilogy. But they're all very good (by and large in Pixar's case), the prequel trilogy are not. 'This film is for kids' is not an excuse for crappy characters or storytelling or pushing the CGI button to the point of tedium.
And I think a lot of diehards expected a new trilogy to push through that impervious barrier of jaded cynicism now enveloping their souls, which was never going to happen, really.
Kids' entertainment has changed quite a bit since I were a nipper and convoluted plots, anthropomorphic animals/aliens with silly voices and megabucks CGI are pretty par for the course. Time was you could put a kid in front of a show about a toilet roll flying to the moon and they'd gurgle away happily, but subtlety's long gone out of the window I'm afraid.
no point in defence... although they did spawn this masterpiece of film criticism... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI
And so are the extra CGI bits in the originals...ruin the films almost completely. George Lucas should be commended for somehow milking more money out of the franchise cash cow though without actually adding anything decent to the mix and getting away with some blatant racist stereotyping in the first film
I remember the evil stupid chinese guys being in all three films. As well as the tight-fisted Jewish slave trader with the big nose.
Lucas is still thinking about Pearl Harbor.
Do not want
... And then went on to watch either of the other two.
with Stars Wars parts 1 to 3 is the rascist homophobia throught the hole of all of it. Luje Skywalker is never allowed to be the gey Jedi therefore when Chewie gets on his case about Leia none of it makes sense, the isssues all come from there. What is wrong with Lucas!!? it's almost as if he doesn't care about Star Wars. When Lando isn't in 3 it makes no sense bdcause Anakin does no wrong. There. It is a there. Palpitine is just a message for thewhole of the rest of the 9 films. It's easy to understand once you get that Obi and Padme (rar) are there after the marriage. The prequels make that all clear. When tyh council takes its decision in the later books to ex-communicate Han there is a political vacuum and this is when Clones become suoresem"!!
but they just have no rewatch value... EP3 is the only one I only saw once so I have quite fond memories, though sure it's actually horseshit.
Am sort of amazed that there's still so much excitement for more films... people are LESS excited than last time around, right? Or is there a younger generation that didn't have to live through The Phantom Menace that just hasn't been burned?
Including me and friends of mine really, have been brought up on the prequels. I was 6 when Phantom Menace came out, and I remember absolutely loving it for years, therefore there is no bitterness/disappointment associated with it really. Obviously, now we're all older, everyone realises that the original trilogy was a lot better, but I still enjoy the prequels despite their many flaws, as do most people I know.
I also partly think the excitement for the new ones is based on the fact that George Lucas isn't really involved that much, and that the people who are working on it have done some remarkably decent stuff very recently, so people are hoping that it will sort of erase the memory of the prequels and prove that the series still has something left inside it.
(Pixar, Marvel Studios)
and because George Lucas isn't going to be heavily involved
although after Star Trek into Darkness I'm less excited than I was
Left and right- horrible delivery by Christansen doesn't help at ALL. All the while you watch you feel like you're watching "a movie" ... not Star Wars :(
Also it's only real highlight is in ironically being about as boring and overlong as Phantom Menace itself.
Maybe it's better if you get past the first interminable 10 minutes. Possibly if he hadn't used that drone voice. Dunno, is the joke that he sounds as boring as the film he's critiquing is? He made a few valid points but they were hardly mind-blowing. It just seems like spending all that time mouthbreathing, making meticulous snarky comments is pointless when it's a film everyone already agrees is fucking shit. I almost wanted to like Phantom Menace more in reaction to it.
Got your attitude towards women spot on.
A harsh bastard.
Right, I'm off to make mala a mod and demote you.
and so doing it anyway is inherently funny, and strangely powerful. The fact that such a piece of shit film leads to this bizarre, twisted response (which has its own inner story) makes the whole project worthwhile.
It's like a much darker take on Mystery Science Theatre 3000, say. In that, the films are obviously shit, but the fact they inspire the creative commentary is weirdly celebratory.
I dunno. I like it.
It's a comedy. He's meant to be weird.
I can't see the confusion.
Given you've confirmed that I was right about what the 'joke' is. It's just a really dull one. I thought better of you guys really. Maybe you just have to have 70 minutes to spare listening to Comic Book Guy?
Have you ever seen Mystery Science Theatre? Like I said, I think of it like that. If you don't like that, then I guess it's not for you.
although probably I last saw it about 15 years ago. It was pretty funny but it relied on three people ripping the piss out of a film with each other (the Ghostbusters visual commentary is kind of cleverly like that on the US DVD).
To be fair, I'm referring to the Phantom Menace one. I didn't realise he'd done all three. It was nothing like the MST3K I saw: it's a guy going into ridiculous detail about why Phantom Menace is bad, he's not just watching the film and ripping the piss out of it, like a sort of reverse commentary.
The RLM critiques are meant to be funny, but they definitely aren't longform jokes. Take out the story bits (which I reckon are a bit unnecessary) and you have a pretty wonderful in-depth study of what works and what doesn't in film making. They're case-studies of the prequel films as how badly wrong a film can go despite (and maybe because of) having all the money in the world thrown at it.
I also fully agree with the guy in his absolute despair at the third one. Who would have thought a film could be so messy and unpleasant while also being so bloody tedious.
Which is why I'm not 100% convinced that isn't actually part of the irony of the thing in the first place.
they are genuinely great pieces of criticism, and I think about as entertaining (or just 'good'?) as a piece of pure film crit can get.
The wonderful thing is that they don's just exist to take the mick out of the new ones: instead they study exactly what it was that made the originals tick and examine what has changed. There are insights, original research and use of documentary footage. One of my favourite bits is where he goes over on-set and staff meeting footage from the new films to look at examples of GL's directing style; he spends the whole thing looking bored and surrounded by people who tell him that he is the cat's whiskers.
I felt like every point (again, only going by the first 10-15 mins) was belaboured and gone over and over, like one of those non-fiction books that assumes the reader is too stupid to get a point if it's made once.
I agree, what I saw was a good critique of both those points, but it wasn't an entertaining critique. It was more like one of those 0/10 style Pitchfork takedowns where the author gets lost in their own prose.
As said below, GL needed Gary Kurtz and you could see how lost he was without him in Return of the Jedi. Certainly the yes-men around him were a problem but then I didn't need RLM to tell me what we all knew already from watching a few of the DVD extras.
it's another entirely to see it in footage that was supposed to be promoting the film's release. You don't think it's interesting to see stuff like that play out? It's rubbernecking at one of cinema's greatest creative trainwrecks: what's not to like?
I absolutely think you should watch the meat of it: it's compellingly neat, and done in a nice point-quote-discuss format.
But you watched 10 - 15mins of it... sooo I'm going to say you're completely wrong because he brings up very valid points and it's clearly very educated in what makes a movie work and what doesn't. The review goes off on why the prequels suck but even better it shows you exactly why the original trilogy was done so well.
Good criticism presented badly is really painful.
but I reckon you'd find it worth a bit of time exploring whether or not you like it once he gets into the flow of it. As I said before, I find the character he does it in a bit grating sometimes.
Weirdly I came to love his monotone more after seeing this:
thought Prometheus was good but rubbishes Inception as being badly thought out and boringly lacking in depth.
the star wars red letter media trilogy are up there with the best, so many well directed criticisms and the fact he can stretch them out so long without repeating himself is quite amazing. It's basically an incredible dissertation and shows a lot of knowledge in what makes a movie work and what doesn't. Plus it's pretty funny as well.
not only don't know the originals all that well, but don't know the prequels either. Their Star Wars affections are driven by the Clone Wars cartoons, so their attitude is far more likely to be 'I can't believe they're making films of my favourite programme!', rather than 'oh no, another way to stamp on the face of creativity'.
the new films are absolutely SHOCKING. there are no good redeeming features in any of them. no one can claim they are any good.
I have no idea but given how good Ewan MacGregor seemed to be prior to starring in those films, probably says a lot about how little 'acting' could be achieved.
My daughter had a friend over yesterday, he's 8 and obsessed with Star Wars. He was throwing all sorts of nerdy questions at me which i had no idea all about, but I asked him "who shot first, Han or Greedo?". When he answered the latter, a small bit of me died inside.
I still think Attack of the Clowns was the real clanger, with its clumsy plot holes and dreadful set-pieces. Ep III starts of superbly and should have been magnificent throughout, that's the problem. Up to where Christopher Lee is despatched with, then it turn into 'Ben 10 Does Tyranny':
"No, you're evil!"
"You're evil and I'm going to chop your legs off!"
"I'm that stupid I'm going to jump anyway- OW. Noooooooooooooo!"
And actually, that is what makes Ep VII so exciting that we are finally going to get a Star Wars film that is worthy of the legacy. By being really quite stunningly bad the prequels have set the bar so so low that the next one only has to be as good as the last Star Trek to restore faith. Bring it...!
Ep I is just dull dull dull
Ep II has some utterly dreadful bits, you're right.
Main difference is that you can slice about 20 mins out of Ep II with the DVD skip button and it's not too bad but with Ep I you have to completely remove all of Jar-Jar's dialogue plus other stuff, which requires actual editing.
If not you should look it up.
There were loads of rumours that it was his handwork wot did this.
Oh! Also, some people on YouTube have done fan made versions of Star Wars (IV), where it's divided up into 30seconds/1 min and people submit their home made versions of that small segment, so you have home made animation/CGI/puppets right through to people wrapped in bin bags with a collander on their head, it's absolutely AMAZING. And they are doing Empire next :D (sorry can't look up link at work).
I will search for it
That was the one where they made Jar-Jar like Chewie and gave him better dialogue via subtitles, right?
Not that I really care enough about the film. There's so very very little of worth in it.
this is interesting also:
It would have been better but it would still have been sort of disappointing.
There was a comment after Ep I came out that Lucas had been 'burned' a little for his characterisation, that Madmartigan from Willow was seen as such a carbon (ho ho) copy of Han Solo, that he deliberately didn't include such a character, which is definitely something it needed.
This guy obviously sees that and wants to make Obi-Wan that type, but I always felt the problem was that Anakin himself needed to be Han Solo. Solo's character is interesting because you're never sure that what side he's really on (except until after his rescue in ROTJ, which is part of the reason that film tends to suck post-Tattooine).
Star Wars is really, REALLY good vs. evil in its character types so you still have your 'neutrals' but they're either Solo or Boba Fett. Anakin needs to be that sort of character and one who at the end of film 3 turns out to be Fett not Solo.
I dunno, it's all too late. Lucas either second-guessed himself into a dreary movie or got old or was just rubbish without Gary Kurtz. The last point is probably the most accurate one: ROTJ isn't very good. The only thing that really carries it is the audience's desire for resolution, the fact it still has those characters and some great little ideas (speeder bikes in a forest, for example). If only they hadn't needed extra financing to finish Empire Strikes Back, I doubt Lucas would have got rid of Gary Kurtz and ROTJ might have been a great film, and maybe there'd have been more, great films after.
is still blisteringly awesome and I don't think has been surpassed since
the strange thing is that now all the smoke has cleared, I reckon Phantom Menace was the best of the lot.
Bad dialogue, wooden acting (blame director) CGI overkill, 1 dimensional characters, boring politics, Japanese aliens (?!?!), complete disregard for a consistant timeline, characters like Yoda who we all loved now being boring and shit and hatable.
But there is one word about all others that sums up why 1-3 are awful:
they only get mentioned in #1. i think even Lucas realised they were a terrible terrible idea.
but once was enough.
Made the force something spiritual into some fucking bullshit blood disorder.
He deserves locking up for that.
Th Phantom Menace is the best of the lot - closest stylistically/cinematography to the originals.
I've seen better acted/directed/shot episodes of Days of Our Lives than Attack of the Clones. And that frolic in the middle where Anakin and Padme take a little holiday is nauseating. Such horribly shit CGI, too.
"I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like here. Here everything is soft and smooth."
"Anakin the Sith are evil!"
"From my perspective, the Jedi are evil!"
"...Really? Do you, er, feel the need to elaborate on that at all... or should we just fight to the death without explaining your sudden bout of child killing mentalness?"
"I'm too enraged for exposition..."
"Oh. En Garde then..."
is it's batshit mental but at least it fucking zips along. Ep II has action but it all seems just like a series of variable set-pieces designed, much like a Transformers movie, to just put on the big screen some shit mouthbreathing fans had been thinking up for decades.
So, yeah, despite all the faults, I actually found Episode III pretty bearable in the cinema.
on some superstitious kick that it'd complete the Circle Of Shit and finally totally ruin star wars for me.
Should I watch it?
I feel like watching 2 was a textbook "fool me twice, shame on me" error...
I think it was more fun. Kind of the right side of hilarious so you weren't sitting there embarrassed for everyone involved, although maybe that was just that you'd decided they all deserved it by now.
what a pack of crusty nerds.
was expecting about 4 replies