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City's performance was obviously pretty limp, but Bayern are a remarkable side, maybe the best i've seen. It's not often City get comprehensively outplayed at home. 1-3 flattered us, really. Think Bayern would've beaten any of the English sides, home or away, but perhaps not quite so routinely.
What's proving most annoying about this season is that every single goal we've conceded, all ten, have been due to defensive errors. Hart was certainly responsible for the first last night, and arguably could have done better for the third, though Fernandinho was most culpable, and Clichy for the second. The three against Villa were all Nastasic's fault, as was United's in the Derby, and the three against Cardiff down to lapses from Clichy, Zabaleta and Hart, respectively.
No real concerns about the side's long-term chances, but we're not making it easy on ourselves. We're really strugglig to adapt to not playing a three-man midfield, and the manager, rated as one of the very best tactitians in the game apparently, doesn't seem to be noticing. Even Mancini adapted his tactics to suit the opposition.
Don't think a few weeks out of the side would do Hart or Nastasic any harm now. As with every member of our first choice back five, we're talking about players who have proven themselves amongst the very best in their repective positions in the country whilst at the club, but some of them are getting Koscielny bad in terms of unforced errors.
Expect we'll still finish 2nd/3rd and win a cup, but it might get worse before it gets better.
It wasn't there for his last couple of months but his work rate in closing down opposition midfielders and the ball retention from him being there needs to be replaced.
started the football thread then went back to bed.
but so many of citys players just failed to turn up. Navas was fucking woeful. Toure was a coward. Dzecko was an ineffectual lump. Kompany was just booting the ball aimlessly straight to a Bayern player. It was quite painful to watch, really.
Its almost like they are mentally weak - maybe they don;t believe they belong at the top table or something.
for the first and third goals? I mean, obviously he's battling it out with young Wojciech for the title of 6th best keeper in the Premier League these days and other boring, shit banter etc etc, but I was expecting something far more calamitous based on the write-ups and the comments in yesterday's thread.
Just watched them now and they're both disappointing sorts of goals to concede, but scored by two players who specialise in cutting inside and aiming at the near post. Two players who are arguably the best in the world at it, in fact.
Bayern look scarily good. First team in the CL era to retain the title, do we think?
that 3rd goal where Robben cut in, he actually cut out and hit it with his crappy right foot. it was at a good height and not particularly powerful. gonna be honest, if one of my pals having a blast in goal let that in I'd be a tad disappointed. near post, man. near post.
if a keeper continually makes brain farts (coming out for crosses and missing etc) then this can be worked on - but these are the basics. and that should be of concern for Hart as an individual, City as his employer and England as his...um, dunno what to say.
not a calamity, but you'd expect any top goalkeeper to keep it out i reckon.
I read the BBC report, and was expecting some world class howlers. What I saw was a keeper getting beat twice at his near post by powerful, well struck shots. Sure, a top keeper should be saving them, but from the reports, I was expecting to see him half stop it, this trip over the ball, do a forward roll then watch it trickle in.
I didn't see the whole game, only the goals, but I didn't think they merited the kind of melodrama that followed, talking about him being dropped etc.
They're the kind of shots a keeper would privately kick himself for not saving, but not howlers to the extent that everyone should be scrutinising them as much as they are. Unfortunately it suits the media narrative about his 'decline', so expect every strong shot he dares to touch before it goes in to draw the same convenient criticism.
He gets a decent hand to the ball and was unfortunate for it to deflect in the way it did.
I'd consider it a positive indication of his quality that these are the kind of goals people pull him up on.
Hart is an excellent keeper for nearly all the time, but in most games he'll make one lapse where you'd have hoped that he'd do better. And because he's a keeper, it gets noticed. However, England expect too much of their keepers because we're always comparing them to rocks like Shilton. Hart is better than the standard of David James and that should really be enough.
2 man midfield against Bayern was always going to be a massacre. Not really sure why someone who was sold on his adaptability is sticking so rigidly to a 4-4-2 when it's clearly leaving us exposed away from home and to good sides.
Also not picking Zabaleta for a game like this is a bit of a disgrace.
when City played their usual kicking, foulling game against Bayern, they just got kicked back and run over.
City were collectively shit last night but I'm pretty convinced there isn't a side in this country that could beat Bayern right now, home or away.
not get completely humbled and shirk their collective responsibility to put up at least a good fight, display professional pride etc - probably.
You're a lot smarter than the persona you choose to portray on here, for whatever reason. Do think you do much better stuff away from the over-excited also-ran fan, though.
seriously, bro. that is how I saw it. don't go all kik on me. its an opinion that I have.
but you're right, City certainly made it easier, but think they'd have steamrollered pretty much anybody last night.
Remember reading there were some doubts in Germany at the start of the season, about Pep changing too much or trying to make Bayern play like Barca, but last night looked like he'd found a pretty great balance between the styles. Basically, his Barca side, but with a more purpose and about twice the size, which is a pretty frightening prospect.
but they're a different side now, and with the bit between their teeth. Don't think even Barca in their pomp frightened me as much as they do.
I reckon Barca at their peak, with Puyol still at CB, would have this Bayern team.
but they didn't need to win, no. My point was they're a different proposition now and playing for realz.
But yeah a lot of Gunners seem to have selective memories of a glorious victory here.
Hence my hesitation to mention the win in Munich. Scary thing about our beating was that we didn't even play that badly, Bayern just battered us
particularly tasty to watch. Last night was something else though, which is probably just down to how shit we were as much as anything.
Which is terrifying.
Gotze, Mandzukic and Thiago not even in that starting lineup either.
i dont even know what the score was.
he chose to watch this game appearently. this is only because he is a Liverpool fan and would rather watch United struggle and potentially lose than two of the best teams in Europe. fucking weird behaviour.
He also said Van Persie is overrated. think we might have ended the phone conversation at that point.
he is a smart chap, too. funny thing is, his kid supports United. fucking pisses him off no end!!
Claimed last year that Liverpool had a better team than Man Utd so I asked him why Man Utd had won the league and Liverpool had finished 7th.
His answer was simply that didn't really mean anything.
I don't really have any football allegiance, but I can say that the majority of Liverpool fans I've met have been bitter as fuck.
solid defensively for the most part, couple decent passages of play but no real attacking threat.
1-1 or 0-0 was expected really. good point for utd in the toughest game of the group on paper.
Pretty funny that everyone was banging on about Moyes having bags of premiership experience but that he might struggle in Europe given how the season has panned out so far.
Van Persie's hold up play was spectacular in the first half.
I'm already annoyed at the amount of fouls Fellaini gives away that wouldn't be given in a million years if he was smaller. I honestly think he might have conceded more free kicks than he completed passes last night but not through any real fault of his own. Their players worked out early that standing near him with the ball in the air and then falling over would work every single time.
same when he played for Everton. curse of the big man, innit. see also, crouchy and big dunc.
european refs are cunts, too
He looks pretty overawed at the minute frankly, started in a deeper role yesterday and was wasteful in possession and unable to win it back, was pretty quicky shoved further forward to nod long balls on to RvP and was relatively effective at that despite the fouls. Really hope he imposes himself on the midfield a bit more soon once he's settled in a bit because at the minute he looks rather nervous to be a Man Utd player.
not sure he has the mental capacity and nous to play the holding role. love Felli
rooney pushed to the left, fellaini second striker, kagawa benched.
their ability to get 3-4 men round the opposing player when not in possession.
this is quite a new phenomenon, as far as I'm aware. Obviously, Barca perfected it, but man, it must be so tough when you're in posession and you see many men running towards you.
'get into them, fuck em up'
WHAT IS ST. NEOTS TOWN?
as opposed to run around like madmen.
Not being fucking torn to shreds if your 3 or 4 men don't win the ball back, or not collapsing from exhaustion with 20 minutes to go, is the insanely difficult bit.
we seem to have found ourselves an even more tactically inept manager
Who in that City squad would you put into central midfield and expect to make any real difference? Rodwell and Garcia wouldn't. Perhaps Milner instead of Dzeko but I doubt that would've made too much of a difference.
Also it wasn't a 442.
a midfield duo (Fernandinho and Yaya) that doesn't work together, as shown by them being bossed at home by HULL, amongst others
i would have put three in the middle, including a defensive anchor. I wouldn't have got rid of Barry. But most of all, I would have learned from the past experiences of games in which we've been rinsed through the middle by much lesser teams and saved by their lack of quality up front.
sure, he is dog slow, but every team needs a Barry. fortunately for us, we now have one.
every City fan rated Barry when he WAS playing
but we do have a lack of discipline and intensity in midfield in general, no matter who in our squad is playing
sometimes you just have to hold your hands up.
Bayern are absolutely mint. It's like they're playing another sport
but when you go into a game like that you need to at least give yourself a chance
I watched an interview with Kevin Bond (QPR assistant manager) the other day. He was being asked how Javier Chevantón was fitting in and said something like, "Obviously he don't speak the language too good yet." Made me chuckle.
For ages there was some kind of omerta around commenting on a mistake by Joe Hart and now every small bodge is jumped upon
but it's been commented on for at least a year now.
i don't think i'm particularly harsh on Joe Hart? i think he's rightly (but not overly) criticised outside of the red-top press for his mistakes, but obviously he's one of the top keepers in t'league.
*insert needless defensiveness about the media on United here*
I think I got thrown by the threadsmash
now it seems to be happening the other way.
1) Fucking hell, that can't be the best 23 English players available!
2) Oh wait, it probably is.
and John Ruddy loves shrubs
And this is such an awful game, 2-0 and hardly anyone's got above a jog
sending me to sleep.
this alex mcleish commentary is giving me a severe case of depression
Redefines dour in every single aspect of his being. Dour appearance, dour voice, dour personality, dour management style for dour teams.
Gallen missed a pen, have looked threatening in spells. Swansea should have had a pen and made some good opportunities. Michu's lost about 4 pints of blood from a head injury.