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awful, awful people.
Moved onto business analysis, much more involved
As a pm you're just hearding cows, you have no input into the actual work, your role is to get the project delivered not what the project delivers. As a BA you scope requirements and are much more involved in actual work rather than just planning.
Tend to get paid more as a PM though
that was myself
they'll be able to stop hiring project managers
if people were capable of getting stuff done to deadline off their own backs, and they nonetheless hired a bunch of incompetents to project manage, you have my sympathy.
It's essentially finding as many different ways as possible to ask people to do their job faster. The longer it takes, the more Stuart Pearson I get about it, occasionally working a whiteboard and a spreadsheet into my act.
Was thinking of this Stewart Pearson.
of extrapolating from my personal experience and tarring everyone else with that reputation. As such, they're awful.
A shit project manager is bound to be excruciatingly horrid. Good ones (like me, of course) are worth their weight in gold on occasion.
I've had good project managers before and although it can be hard you know what they are doing is for the best. This guy though...harrumph.
the job descriptions are almost always ridiculously vague and ill-thought through.
I actually quite like doing project management. Can see why it fucks people off to have people chasing them for stuff but I've worked in places that have lost thousands of pounds just 'cos they've not provided paperwork adequately so it is necessary.
so maybe shit project manager are the real issue)
and yeah like you i get the anger when i'm sending shitty emails but meh. nmfp.
he isn't even doing that. We're running way late despite us having things in place nearly a month ago. There's a difference between being an arse but doing it for the good of the project/work and then there is being grossly incompetent. This guy is pretty much the embodiment of the Peter Principle.
there's a building being built. someone needs to manage that.
there's a dvd being manufactured. someone needs to manage that.
there's an IT system being implemented in a large company. someone needs to manage that.
Because all the work we do is project based usually it's managed by the people working on the jobs, but if certain projects go wrong every year without fail they dispatch a specialised project manager to get things back into shape. When not project managing apparently they sat on beanbags in thoughtspaces and threw the idea ball around until it stopped bouncing.
It's basically the premise of the whole programme!
»Yeah, Kevin, we're gonna project manage the build ourselves.«
Kevin then proceeds to spend 90% of the narration time banging on about how necessary project managers are.
Seriously, though, I'd expect a raging jobsniffer like you to know that there's nuff dollars in the Project Management jobs that get advertised.
I can honestly say I've never used it in any of my roles (looks good on the CV innit)
Main problem with PMs is that is it is their only role they spread themselves too thin and inevitably end up holding up the people working on the projects who have the more in depth knowledge of doing stuff on a day to day basis.
At least the ones I have worked with have.
I always see them being flogged on Groupon. I know it's to do with Project Management but...
You don't need a qualification in project management in my view. The principles of it are ridiculously straightforward. Although some form of specific and ordered training is probably essential for high end PMs (ones that project manage the building of stadia etc.)
Complete fucking waste of money. PRINCE2 is basically a system of giving really obvious ideas utterly stupid and meaningless titles. Employers seem to like it but it's fucking useless as a thing. Couldn't even be arsed to complete it in the end.
You'd be surprised how much employers like it though, even with no actual evidence of using it.
Stupidly I just paid to access the stuff and not to sit the exam so I genuinely got the worst of all worlds. I should actually do it properly as I know it'd make me a fucking sight more employable...
and both the foundation and practitioner courses are multiple choice. As long as you do the reading for it you'd be fine, as you can bring your coursebook in with you, highlight the necessary areas and even tab the pages!
PRINCE2 (an acronym for PRojects IN Controlled Environments) is a de facto process-based method for effective project management.
Used extensively by the UK Government, PRINCE2 is also widely recognised and used in the private sector, both in the UK and internationally. The PRINCE2 method is in the public domain, and offers non-proprietorial best practice guidance on project management.
The key features of PRINCE2 are a:
focus on business justification
defined organisation structure for the project management team
product-based planning approach
emphasis on dividing the project into manageable and controllable stages
flexibility that can be applied at a level appropriate to the project.
I did Prince2 as I couldn't get on a CIMA course (which still annoys me as I have worked in Business Analysis/accounting for 7 years now), but the company had the budget to pay for training and if you get the chance, you should go on as many courses as you can.
I think a lot of people would be surprised with how much they project manage themselves without thinking of it. It's all fairly logical stuff at the end of the day.
I'm all for training courses that allow PMs to think through their work. And you're right - most people project manage throughout their non-working life too!
Project Management at most people's levels is guided by principles that are so headbangingly straightforward it negates the need for most qualifications. The best thing to be as a PM is well-organised.
All about organisation and common sense, really. I had lots of experience in creating Budgets and once I started doing Prince I realised that it was just managing a project. Really simple stuff that is probably far too over-complicated.
Even if you're not a Project Manager per se, every single task that you do will probably require a similar process, whether it's done formally or just informally in your head.
Most of it's common sense, but it allows for an auditable route through the process.
There's a lot of fancy models around project management too but they ultimately all just revolve around different ways of being well-organised.
Come on guys enough dis today
they have a lot of co-ordination and actual work to do, rather than just making spreadsheets and mindmaps. So I think they're ok. Plus, I'm in the department above them 'Strategy' in the company food chain so I get to tell them what to do sometimes.
about working for large companies, particularly project managers.
like / learn things from / have comedy mugs licensed off Dilbert.
because of the fact that I've had jobs where basically technicians/engineers often had to do project management as well work on specific tasks, I can really see why Project Managers are useful.
Not because the people they're managing are incompetent more because projects can often get so complicated that it's difficult to maintain visibility over all aspects of them.
is that ok?
and especially the more dispersed the resources involved. Conceptually mostly common sense as stated upthread, but it's an additional resource to keep things on track.
You can have that one
who go into the workplace and then tell you that you're wasting valuable seconds by performing this action in this way?
Was way back when when I worked for Boots HR (outsourced though, yeah?) and it was pretty much like living in the Office.
And probably pointless to bump Friday afternoon.
But I'm going to do a project management course to flesh out the old CV before I start looking for a new job.
What's best: ITIL or PRINCE2? Anyone know?
Going to look for some sort of IT job I think as that's the most "fun" part of the role I have at the moment (run a music wholesale company - tired of fighting a losing battle)