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Pre Ashes Build Up Thread

MrScagdenSir [Edit] [Delete] 25 replies 11:48, 27 June '13

So... Lehman as coach should give Australia something to rally round. I can totally see them coming back hard at England, there's been a fair bit of complacency recently given all of Australia's woes.

Where do people stand on the whole root/compo opening thing? I think given that Root is a proven opener we could eject compo altogether. I know this will never happen in a million years, but I reckon 6 batsmen, 5 bowlers would be ideal:

Cook
Root
Trott
Pietersen
Bell (although I'm prepared to ditch him tbh, replace with Carberry? Bairstow?)
Prior
Broad (big if, but if her can recover some batting form, why not at 7?)
Swann (if fit, tredders if not)
Finn
Anderson
Panesar

Two decent spinners would ruin the Aussies I reckon. Thoughts?

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  • I'll be disappointed with anything less than a whitewash

    Antpocalypsenow | 27 Jun '13, 11:49 | X
    • Fucking hell,

      you youngsters. I'll gratefully take any sort of victory after those years of pain.

      Balonz @Antpocalypsenow | 27 Jun '13, 11:57 | X
      umlaut_ampersand, cheeseandbaconturnov, pieces_of_reece, and p_a_u_l this'd this
      • ^ so much

        After 20-odd years of Aussies lording (no pun intended) it over us until 2005, it would be good to see a series win of any sort. It's a shame we are just too polite to give them the abuse and stick we had to endure from the likes of Warne, Waugh, Merv, McGrath et al

        NoahVale @Balonz | 27 Jun '13, 12:10 | X
  • can see the series being closer than every man and his dog seems to be predicting.

    2-1 England.

    middelfart | 27 Jun '13, 11:50 | X
    • Yup totally

      part of me would love a whitewash but actually I think an evenly matched and hard fought 3/2 or 2/1 would be far more satisfying.

      MrScagdenSir @middelfart | 27 Jun '13, 11:55 | X
      • Agreed. The weather will also play a part

        If we get another wet summer, and the pitches are set up to last 5 days, it could easily go down to a victory by the odd match or even a tied series.

        NoahVale @MrScagdenSir | 27 Jun '13, 12:13 | X
  • As an Australian I'm just not looking forward to this at all

    I think it could be as bad as some are making it out to be

    19948 | 27 Jun '13, 12:04 | X
    • In some ways, because expectations are so low

      you will only get grief if there is an absolute debacle. The expectation is totally on England - you've not really got a lot to lose

      NoahVale @19948 | 27 Jun '13, 12:14 | X
  • Could have done without Lehman coming in at this point tbh

    as it should have been a pretty convincing series win for England with the state Australia were in before, but now you know it'll be a close unit and they'll be playing mainly off pride, which can be dangerous.

    Agree with moving Root up, Compton doesn't do it for me. Wouldn't drop Bell at all, has been a bit shakey but is still very good and more than capable of knocking up a decent score, as well as having lots of Ashes experience.

    olegrich | 27 Jun '13, 12:16 | X
    • It's the slightly petulant frowning he does

      as he marches back to the pavillion after making his beautifully silky 20 odd that puts me off him.

      MrScagdenSir @olegrich | 27 Jun '13, 12:59 | X
  • Anyone going?

    Only got tickets for Day 5 at Trent Bridge, which will probably mean I won't be going at all.

    olegrich | 27 Jun '13, 12:18 | X
    • 4th day at Old Trafford. Wanted 3rd but it sold out immediately.

      cheeseandbaconturnov @olegrich | 27 Jun '13, 15:57 | X
  • Tredwell as first reserve spinner?

    Madness!

    Panesar's not been in great form either. If England do play a second spinner at any point it'll be someone who's even more use as a batsman (say, Rashid or (whisper it) Moeen Ali). But as you can see, the two players I named are not even England A players so we can probably extrapolate that *under no circumstances will England even think about playing a second spinner*

    I just want England to avoid picking:

    a) too many Warwickshire players
    b) any Twenty20 buffoons (Morgan, Buttler etc)
    c) B*****n (this will happen for at least 3 of the Tests, I'm resigned to it)
    d) Ian Bell if he fails in the first two (see a) I guess)

    Taylor and Compton are in-form reserves. I could even see a leftfield selection like Andrew Gale if the selectors get frisky/the English batting falls apart

    If the English bowling isn't all that, I'd very much like the selectors to consider a shameless horses-for-courses short-term selection like David Masters. Worked with Bicknell vs South Africa! I'm also really excited by the young, gifted and black duo of Chris Jordan and Keith Barker (who's my exception to the 'Warwickshire players' caveat and always seems to take wickets and score useful runs). Of course, they'll probably opt for someone like Meaker and then bray about patience as he goes at 5 per over

    As for Australia? Their batting has a little more potential than is claimed, I will simply say that. In fact, I think they'll bat better than they bowl.

    Loui_Tacceh | 27 Jun '13, 13:12 | X
    • I'd rather be a bear than a pear

      (although Warks not exactly setting the county championship alight this year) (all worth it for last year though)

      Totally agree about 20/20 chaps, Bresnan I'm not sure about, but I think he's not a good enough batsman for that to even come into it (unlike Broad and Swan, who are very hit and miss, sure, but do have that potential, however small, of being able to counter attack a la Headingley 2009)

      I'd rather we started with Compton though - root at 5 is good for me, and Bairstow is just too unreliable. Compton's doing a decent job of seeing off the new ball. Agree that Taylor should be next (behind Bairstow), then possibly Chopra ;)

      Barker offers some nice left hand swing, but can be enfeebled when the ball's not doing much. Meaker's just another Saj Mahmood - fast but not really that good. Even WE took him apart a couple of weeks back. I think the bowling should probably go amongst those who've been scrapping it out recently (anderson, broad, finn then onions, bresnan and (maybe) tremlett). They're almost certainly going to just go with Trott and Root filling out other overs.

      Australia's bowling is much better than their batting though. They lack a spinner, but come on. Cowan can't buy an innings, Khawaja and Hughes have a LOT to prove at test level (though i think they'll be good in 2-3 years), Clarke and Watson are both great, sure, Haddin can be useful... Faulkner? Rogers? I'd hate Warner on my team, but can't deny I'm not a bit worried by him on the other. And then there's Steve Smith.

      The bowling looks pretty good though - Starc, pattinson and Siddle is good, Lyon's a better spinner than some give him credit for, Johnson could hit form (and he's lethal when he does)

      kenako @Loui_Tacceh | 27 Jun '13, 15:20 | X
      • Oh,

        and FWIW - 3-1 England I reckon, possibly 2-1 if Clarke has a good series.

        But I'd take any win whatsoever

        kenako @kenako | 27 Jun '13, 15:23 | X
      • Onions, of course

        I think he's been fairly hard done-by in his career so far. Always, always bowls straight and takes wickets. I only said Masters because he's essentially the absolute refinement of Onions' bowling-style, albeit a little slower. But I can think of a few Onions should be well ahead of (including Tremlett, who's been largely ineffective this season). Vernon Philander destroyed this Aussie line-up and Onions is the closest thing England has to him.

        Chopra is probably at around Andrew Gale's level in the pecking-order - I'd have both immediately behind Taylor and Bairstow/Compton. I'd also suggest we not rule out Carberry yet either.

        You're very dismissive of the Aussie batting ('Rogers?'). Chris Rogers is a very fine cricketer and I think he'll make at least one century. Haddin is better than useful. Sure, Cowan/Khawaja/Hughes can go either way, but I think all three will play with great diligence. I don't expect the Aussie batting to overwhelm England unless, say, Clarke and Haddin get a partnership going, but I don't expect them to fall apart as expected either. Oh and one final thing - Steve Smith will absolutely play some of the Tests - a really, really underrated batsman and far more solid than you'd think.

        As for the bowling, I think Chadd Sayers will play some of the Tests, possibly ahead of Starc. I think this England batting line-up can do some fairly nasty things to the younger bowlers, although I'd back Pattinson to keep his dander up.

        Loui_Tacceh @kenako | 27 Jun '13, 15:37 | X
        • Well

          They're all test batsman, I'm not dimissing them out of hand - Rogers has an excellent first class record, sure, but that doesn't necessarily translate well at test level, he's almost completely untried, same with Faulkner. Haddin's not got a test 50 for 18 months, and almost 3 years for a century - he *can* be good, but, like most of the line up, there're far too many could be/maybe/might turn out for it to be considered a good batting line up. You could say similar with the bowlers to be fair, but I think the bowling's been holding up a bit better.

          I don't expect England to romp away with it at all, but if England play well, it'll take something special from 2-3 Australians (some in a debut series) to stop an England win.

          kenako @Loui_Tacceh | 27 Jun '13, 15:55 | X
          • Oh

            and yeah, Smith's better than some give him credit for (though he's as much an all rounder as Root or KP), but I can't help but laugh at his (reasonably effective tbf) cover drive, which looks like someone. Who is trying. Very Hard. To play the shot. Like it looks in the Textbook.

            kenako @kenako | 27 Jun '13, 15:57 | X
            • :D

              Andrew Flintoff had the same cover-drive. Awkwardly Proper.

              Loui_Tacceh @kenako | 27 Jun '13, 16:02 | X
  • I think we will see a pretty similar lineup to the one that played NZ

    with Root jumping up and Compo dropping out. KP to replace compo.

    Cook, Root, KP, Trott, Bell, Bairstow, Prior, Broad, Swann, Bresnan/Finn, Anderson

    Bresnan or Finn will be selected based on the ground conditions, if its gonna swing Bresnan, if the extra pace is needed Finn. Maybe see Root/Trott bowling a few overs before the new ball comes on and acting as a 5th bowler.

    I think having Bairstow at 6 would be good. Hopefully the lads at the top will do the business and there wont be much pressure on him.

    I think the Aussie bowling attack is decent but I cant see the top order getting enough runs to allow them to win games. I think I read something about them having quite a few left handers and that would suite Swann as there will be plenty of footholes in the 2nd innings due to our seamers.

    I'm going for 3-0 England, dont think they will win a test but not a white wash because of the weather. I have a day 4 ticket for Durham. Day 4 of the 4th test. I'm hoping that will be the ashes winning day.

    supahotfire | 27 Jun '13, 15:10 | X
  • Watson has just hit 90 against Somerset.

    Including 20 4s!

    fellover | 27 Jun '13, 16:10 | X
    • singles are for chumps

      gecko @fellover | 27 Jun '13, 22:12 | X
  • i'll go 3-1 england

    gonna get absolutely hammered one test though, possibly trent bridge. i like compton but if he's in the way of root's predestined eagle-soaring over world cricket then that's just how it goes.

    if i wus picking the side it'd be
    cook
    root
    trott
    pietersen
    bell
    taylor
    swann
    broad
    finn/onions
    anderson

    codpieceface | 27 Jun '13, 21:05 | X
    • prior doesn't need mentioning apparently

      codpieceface @codpieceface | 27 Jun '13, 21:09 | X
    • I like the ODI top 4 of

      cook
      bell
      trott
      root

      just cos how many times do you see that many monosyllables consecutively at the top of an innnings? If I was and England selector I'd find pinch hitting roles for Finn, Broad and Swann just to have a monosyllabic top 7.

      This probably explains why I am not an England selector.

      MrScagdenSir @codpieceface | 28 Jun '13, 09:53 | X
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