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Obviously contains spoilers.
Loved the first one, actually liked the fact that they destroyed Vulcan and created a new timeline to do something new, was looking forward to the sequel, trailers had me excited etc, etc
Not quite sure how I feel about it now. Like... did they just remake Wrath of Khan?
First 10mins I thought were ridiculous. Having Spock in that Volcano I was starting to think this was going the way of Transformers and the Star Wars prequels. After the credits and the main body of the film kicked in I started to really enjoy it. Cumberbatch was pretty brilliant as the villain.
Some random thoughts throughout:
First scene with Simon Pegg: 'You're accent's slipping mate. Awful casting choice considering how well the rest of them work. What's with his wee Alien pal? Like, why the fuck is he in these movies?'
Dr Markus Identity revealed: 'Ah right, so that's Dr Markus from Wrath of Khan then, the one he's going to have the kid with... not remaking Wrath of Khan are they?'
Cumberbatch in the brig: 'Right, ok, so they're doing Wrath of Khan then.'
Kirk and Scotty head to engineering to try and sort the warp core: 'Wait a minute...'
Kirk suggests entering the warp core to save the ship: 'No, surely not...'
Scotty tells him he won't survive: 'they're actually going to do this aren't they?'
Kirk saves the ship, emotional Scotty says "You better get down here": '..........'
The scene on on either side of the glass: 'He's fucked it, he's actually gone and fucked it, this is awful'
Hands on either side of the glass: 'this is bullshit'
Kirk dies, spock gets emotional (WHAT EVEN?) and yells "KHAAAAN!": 'FUCK.MY.LIFE.'
Kirk is dead: 'so what... "The Search for Kirk" is that actually going to happen?"
Tribble moves in front of McCoy's face: "Fuck sake Abrams, are you actually pulling this shit?"
Kirk is revived, movie ends: 'Yeah, ok, you salvaged it a little bit Abrams. I feel slightly cheated though.'
Dr Markus makes the comment about family: 'that ostrich laugh from Family Guy'
So, yeah, anyone else seen it? Thoughts?
Can you just explain it please?
I'll probably catch it in about 3 years and think `yeah that was an enjoyable romp` like the first one.
Pretty much. Wrath of Khan with a Spock/Kirk flip. I felt 20% 'hey that's interesting alternate timeline continuity' and 80% 'oh ffs do something new'.
The tribble was, funnily enough, sort of, a wee furry glaringly obvious Chekhov's Gun for Kirks revival.
Side grumble, Alice Eve's wonderfully attractive but shoehorned in underwear scenes aren't actually necessary.
Probably my favourite thing about it was watching it in the BFI IMAX alongside the campest couple in the world both freaking out at the 3D for two hours solid while dosed up on canned cocktails. Great lads.
but just wanted to ask - is "Star Trek" being used as a verb in the title of this film? It's been annoying me for a while.
"there have been more conversations about what we're going to call it than went into actually shooting it. […] There’s no word that comes after the colon after Star Trek that’s cool. Not that Star Trek: Insurrection or First Contact aren’t good titles, it’s just that everything that people are turned off about when it comes to Trek is represented by the colon."
and he normally manages to type better than that. I can't tell if he's saying there isn't a colon or just that they didn't put one in because it's traditionally hailed a shit Star Trek movie (which Insurrection isn't, in any case).
like Star Trek: The Trekkening
I have to see this now. I'm going to have your notes with me when I do.
i sorta agree with a lot of it (particularly that KAAAAHHHHHHHNNNNNN's plan makes no sense - how does hiding his pals in torpedos help in any way?) but it's a typical Abrams blockbuster - big, flashy, entertaining, and ultimately a little bit hollow.
Plus, Peggles was fucking appalling. Every moment he was onscreen I was thinking, "WHY ISN'T KARL URBAN HERE INSTEAD?"
(Karl Urban was awesome)
There was a scene near the end where he said something on the brige and I was just like 'Judge Dredd!'
I assumed Khan didn't choose to hide them in the torpedos, Admiral Markus did, hoping that Kirk would launch them at Kronos and take out Khan along with his crew... but I've maybe got the wrong end of the stick there.
I watched the first one on Channel 4 at the weekend. Abrams has done the 'KHAAAAN' thing already - when they're about to take down Nero and the Romulans, Eric Bana yells "SPOOOOOOCK, SPOOOOOOCK!!" which I thought was reference back to Wrath of Khan.
Was starting to think 'not too much lense flare' until they got on the bridge and then I was like 'fuck sake Abrams! we get it, you like fucking lense flare, give it a rest!'
although the wikipedia synopsis seems to imply that the Admiral did it, which would make a lot more sense. Although not a lot more...
At this point I think I'd pay for a Bones solo movie where he goes on adventures and gets stern looks on his face a lot.
will I enjoy it? I found the first re-boot fine, but not great. Is this better?
then you should watch Wrath of Khan in any case. He also directed Star Trek VI, which is pretty good as well.
and I really enjoyed this one. In terms of big, pretty dumb blockbusters it's great fun.
wasn't khan cross in star trek 2 because kirk had fucked him up in one of the earlier TV episodes?
But now none of that happens because it's a new timeline right?
can we just forget this ever happened?
this time he's pissed off with Robocop
Its the film I was hoping Iron Man 3 would be, but just fell short of. Benedict Cumberbatch is particularly great. He should do the whole supervillain thing more, he's good at it. It almost seemed like a logical progression from Sherlock's darker moments in a way.
Supposedly the sequel features Klingons more heavily. I reckon it'll be them reacting to the fact a bunch of them were killed and declaring war or whatever.
I'll miss JJ as a director, but I can sleep better knowing Star Wars is in safe hands now.
consensus on whether this is any good or not? Better than the first one?
As good as I reckon.
it's a lot of fun but tarnished by poor plotting and overhammy references/homages
(and Simon Pegg)
That's why they couldn't be woken up- because all of them together could do even more drastic damage to life and universe and all that shit than just Khan did.
Just curious because then it seems that there were 72 human-sized and -shaped capsules of super magical resurrection blood onboard the Enterprise the entire time and Kirk could have been saved pretty easily.
Not sure it really qualifies as a plot hole, but it seems a curious oversight. Still, fun film. Lots of explosions and over-acting, which is all you can reasonably want or expect from Star Trek film.
Thought it was damn entertaining. A much more enjoyable blockbuster than the recent Marvel stuff.
(this might mean i'm not allowed to participate in this thread)
It was good fun. Absolutely nonsensical, and not in the same league as the last one, but enjoyable nonetheless.
It was pacy enough that you didn't really worry about examining the complete lack of logic in the plot, but that did mean you kind of stop caring by the end. Oh, and it falls into the modern action film trap of going on about 30 minutes past its natural conclusion.
Didn't drag, some good performances (especially Bones - and specifically not Pegg) and good action sequences.
I was confused about the people in torpedos thing though - didn't see who that helped. And why Bones didn't get blood from them instead of having to get Khan back.
My other issue, which comes from reading some background, is that Khan was apparently a big deal prior to his freezing - leader in the Eugenics War bollocks, ruled a quarter of the globe... So surely your average Star Trek cadet should know all about him once he introduces himself? Also, is he meant to be Sikh?
The Klingons were a bit of a McGuffin, weren't they.
and the obvious plus point is that since I had a couple of hours, I decided to go back again, which is rare (I have a Cineworld card, it's "free" anyway.) It's a ride, it doesn't feel like it's over two hours long.
Really enjoy the cast, the whole crew, they all hold up to the original cast, Bones is hilarious "Damn it, Jim!" , don't even mind Pegg - I thought he was fine - can't get into a debate about his accent because as a foreigner I would be out of my depth.
Cumberbatch - is it too early to put him on the list of greatest ever movie villains? but yes, great. Up there with Alan Rickman and Christopher Lee.
good point about the reputation of Khan, it would be like someone saying "my real name is . . . Adolf Hitler", only to be met with silence because nobody gets the reference.
Yes- still confused about the people in the torpedoes, so they couldn't defrost any of the other ones because they didn't know the correct settings? and the frozen people's blood may be frozen or whatever so they couldn't use it on Kirk? so they only had Khan's blood. but then they put dead Kirk into one of the thingys to freeze him, so they must've taken one guy out, killing him in the process? what? and what if they killed Khan, his blood would still be ok, right? the person doesn't have to be alive? whatever, in any case Uhura could've told Spock not to kill Khan because that's not the right thing to do, because everyone deserves a trial, like Spock himself said earlier?
anyway, all that doesn't even matter in the end, because the film is so much fun.
I was a bit disappointed by the more obvious references back to Wrath of Khan. didn't mind the yell, oddly, at first I thought it was just a generic yell, instead of KHAAAAAAAN.
I didn't want to see Nimoy again, if this the last time we ever see him play Spock, it's an anti-climax. Especially when the last film had a nice send-off for his version of Spock, and nothing he said added anything to the film.
'I can't tell you anything about my past that might affect your life Zachary Quinto...
... but I will tell you about Khan, yeah, no bother'
-what's up, young Spock?
-you know that Khan, right? is he a nice dude?
-bit a bastard, I wouldn't trust him.
-cheers, old Spock, I think I could've worked that out by myself, given that he made someone to be a suicide bomber and massacred a room full of people.
I thought it demonstarted how much of a badass Khan was that Spock would go against his word to warn new Spock
Spock promised he wouldn't say anything to affect his new future however. But he went against that to say - yeah he's a bad motherfucker
I'll tell you why another time but I've just watched it and yeah, rubbish. I wish I didn't care so muh about Star Trek, in fact I didn't realise how much I did care about Star Trek until I watched this, but yeah, pretty bad
Okay, there were quite a few plot holes ( as mentioned above), Alice Eve in her underwear was totally unecessary, and Nimoy's scene was a bit undignified, but I can ignore those. I did find it a little hard to enjoy the endless climbing and super-hero style fights on top of spaceships, but the re-shaping/setting up of Wrath Of Kahn worked, I thought, despite the fact that I really don't know whether this is a new timeline or not.
but there was something painfully awkward about it, so heavily signposted and made no sense at all. I would say it wasn't in keeping with her character but her character didn't really have any character so maybe not.
in the whole thing. Apart from his ding-dong face when she first turned up I guess.
Anyway, I refuse to think about it anymore - it was an enjoyable film but every time I think about it I realise how shit it was.
I've completely forgotten when it occured. Was it before her and Bones went to deactivate the torpedo?
If so, why wasn't Bones there, and why was Kirk?
can't believe you're arguing about the best bit of the film
like Jane Fonda's naked zero-gravity scene in Barbarella.
But it did seem a little shoehorned in.
For the first, like hour or so, I was being super critical and *Oh this isn't as conscise as the first one* I decided to shut up and enjoy it, and I thought it was tops.
I liked the reworked Wrath of Khan stuff because it worked for the charactersisation - Kirk being noble and self sacrificing, Spock breaking the rules.
People are mentioning plot holes, but to be honest I didn't even notice them at the time. The biggest plot hole for me was how the ship got under the water unnoticed in the first place.
And minus a million points for introducing the Klingons and not ONE SINGLE ONE OF THEM shouting QAPLA!!!!!!!!!!
One question about that initial mission though: who authorised it? The implication in the dressing down was that it wasn't authorised by Starfleet, and that, by the rules, the volcano should not have been nullified. If this was the case, why did Spock sign up for it?
But to explain the reason would show that I know the rules of the Prime Directive a little too well and look like an abject loser, so I'll pass
But I still couldn't find anything in there that would explain why Spock would have agreed to it.
The implication from Pike was that the volcano stopping was in contravention of the Prime Directive. I dunno.
I reckon spock would think it was illogical to uphold the prime directive if the result is the destruction of a civilisation
There was WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much swearing. This is a family film damn it Jim!
I didn't realise how much I cared about Star Trek until I saw this. It was like a parody of a Star Trek film.
First things first, that's not how Pike dies. He dies in the original series with some fucking horrible burns all over his face or something.
irk had a record player, technology that is 500 years old.
When the criotubes turned up, Bones was all 'oh I don't know how to use this technology, it's 300 years old' then half an hour later it was open one of these things up, stick this guy in a coma he'll be ok, chuck Kirk in there bish bash bosh I know how to work this now it's totally fine. And then at the end where Kahn is in a critube, where the fuck did that one come from? Did they just kill the guy that they took out of one or did they find a fucking 300 year old spare knocking about? Nonsense.
When Leonard Nimoy turned up I was sat there in the cinema going WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING, me and my gf managed to figure out about half an hour after the film ended that it was a reference to the previous film but still, it was more superfluous to the plot as the gratuitous babe-in-underwear shot and hugely out of character for Spock to be so self indulgent as to just pop a call through to his future self when they're in the middle of something. Ridiculous.
Also the film is set before the original series, and The Wrath of Kahn is set after the original series, so why does he ask himself if they defeated Kahn anyway? What the fuck does it matter?
Why didn't Kahn bomb the meeting room like it was so easy for him to bomb that fucking library at the beginning?
Why didn't the Klingons do anything about the two starships just hanging around kicking the shit out of each other?
And they didn't need Kahn's blood, they could have used the guy they just took out of the criotube to put Kirk in.
And putting Checkov in charge of engineering? 'Oh hey Checkov you've spoken to Scotty a couple of times right? I'm sure there's no one down in engineering who is better qualified to run the place than the ensign who sits on the bridge, you'd better take over.' And fixing the warp core with a kick? Fuck off.
Scotty arriving at the same time as the rest of the crew at that secret starship and no one saying to him, oh you're not meant to be here, fuck off please.
Urgh, this film was exhausting. All this and it's not even nice to look at with the ridiculous lens flares all the time. Seriously, who designed a ship with such insanely bright lights at eye level? That scene where whatsername was talking to the admiral and you couldn't see half her face coz of a fucking lens flare. Fuck off, Star Trek Into Darkness. There wasn't even any darkness coz of the stupid fucking lens flares
but this is a shit excuse, it's like saying ''it was all a dream''
this is a different timeline (romulans buggered about with it in the first film)
Although to outgeek you Pike was not dead in the tv series, he was just nearly dead which is why he was quite happy to go back to enjoy the illusion of health and vigour with the woman who was scarred and misshapen in real life but beuatiful by illusion
the whole alternate timeline thing from the first film splits the two strands before the original series starts (I think before Spock starts on the Enterprise?), so quite literally ANYTHING can happen in the new films, including the premature deaths of characters from the original timeline.
Please say you understand and don't make me try and explain sci-fi bumwankery to anyone ever again.
Fucking Star Trek.
I'm nearly confident enough to start my Babylon 5 thread now.
I'm not sure what you mean
I just think it's a big fucking cop out so that they don't have to take any of the Star Trek history into account, it's really lazy. After seeing the other starship behind Jupiter or whatever I thought it looked like a Borg cube and from then on I was just thinking 'I wish I was watching First Contact'
means you can have an interesting play around with the idea of fate/destiny, and it trims off a fuckload of baggage. Isn't it basically the equivalent of whenever comic books do that restarting thing, because sci-fi/fantasy has a tendency to become increasingly bloated and unworkable the longer it goes on?
glad we agree
im just defending it because I went into it all with hope and niavity which allowed me to enjoy it more.
What also helps is that I thought the original star trek films were meh so didnt watch them, particularly....just the original series for me.
So yeah this had loads of holes (like the enterprise......how come the structure didnt fail?)
(dont dare you criticise my beloved prometheus however)
As I've said I don't tend to notice plotholes unless they're really obvious. I spent the whole of Prometheus going *Err, hang on a minute*. Total clusterfuck of a film
you are just being a negative ninny, you should be a positive peter
Then turning into a total SHITE BAG when they get left on the planet.
Then immediately, all fear is gone when he spots an actual alien being that looks like a fucking snake and think's it's cute?
I find it hard to be positive about that one.
I am pretty certain that the macho guy who says that is the geologist/chemist NOT the biologist.
They do not get 'left on the planet' they are left in the structure surrounding the 'engineers' spacecraft.
It is the biologist who is all cowardly beforehand that is then 'charmed' by the snakey alien.
There is no explanation for the method by which it happens but the fact that the snakey thing is cobra like and looks at him, is the director perhaps suggesting that there is maybe some mechanism by which he has been charmed (perhaps if you were there the creature just seemed so damned cute, or perhaps it seemed so damned cute to him......I know I love snakes and other people are revolted by them)
McCoy often uses inexact turns of phrase just as we all do, of course he could work out how to use them, especially as they would be able to call up the plans (since they were starting to travel very large distances then there is every chance that they might come across much older vestigel space travel tech and earlier craft, therefore it would make sense to keep all records)
However as to where they got the extra cryotorpedo I do not know......Fair point......unless of course they have a 3d printer and recreated one? :D
BUT they did explain all that in the first film (although I would imagine that if this happens then there would also be a huge lot of other anomolies
5th point.....timeline has been altered as said before.
7?th point.....why didnt khan bomb the meeting of commanders - very fair point, it was a very 'left to chance' method......but then again if he succeeded it would have meant the plot would effectively stop with kirk and spock dead......I guess the director had a scene worked out that he wanted to shoehorn in
why didnt the klingons do anything about the starships fighting? well because soon after they started fighting they warped off, and for normal ships (apart from the dark federation ship) they cannot follow or catch up easily in warp
At least Checkov would never have been put in charge of engineering
and Kirk was really racist to Spock for like the first half of the film or something
At the end when the credits were rolling and Simon Pegg's name came up my dad said "WHO WAS SIMON PEGG THEN?" He then claimed to not recognise him because he wasn't holding a cricket bat covered in blood. He also said it was "a bit far fetched." I love going to the cinema with my dad.
THOUGHTS: it was great, don't like Cumberbatch much, but he was excellent as the villain - should play more evil guys. Everyone was great though - needed more Karl Urban <3
seen it twice now for some reason (lens flares even worse in 3d), didnt think it was anywhere near as good as the first one. just loads of little things bugged me, stuff like at the begining you think kirk is all clever for working out bombing the archive was a ploy to get the leaders together and kill them, then it turns out the archive was actually a secret weapons lab (not exactly a plot hole but weird to go back on the meaning of what happened earlier), the torpedos thing made no sense, the way khan's actions fit so well with the evil admirals plans even thought they weren't working together (khan's plans weren't really ambitious enough to do him justice, didnt fit in with his history), but still a fairly enjoyable film despite simon pegg
It's also pretty obviously about a gay love triangle involving Spock, Kirk and Khan, and none of you have acknowledged that which is sad to see.
Agree with all the criticism mentioned in this (except the lens flare, which really doesn’t bother me) but enjoyed it overall regardless.
Main gripe though – how could John Harrison teleport all the way to the Klingon planet? I always thought the teleportation was fairly short range. If you could go from planet to planet then wouldn’t that render interplanetary space flight slightly obsolete?
I wish they’d kept his name as John Harrison throughout. Imagine Spock going “JOHNNNN HARRRISSSOOOONNNNNNNNN!” – it would have been brilliant!