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RIP the most interesting, influential and divisive British politician of the 20th Century.
I might give you interesting though.
has made certain promises in the past.
See you all there.
Mogwai are playing, surely?
dead serious about going to Itchy and Scratchy Land!
it actually happens and you don't bump the thread?
Impressed how quickly they updated
Like hammer time but political.
Can't wait for creaky to get here.
just ^this things
She was a nasty piece of work and probably the most negative and destructive cunt in this country's recent history! I wish she'd died 30 years ago!
you didn't need me at all :D.
You're an ill informed idiot if you believe that
seems only fitting
could the conservative party be on a better run of luck?
I thissed your post m8, always got ur back.
TWITTER STORM LA LA LA
but don't see the death of an elderly person who was very successful at being awful in their heyday as karmic retribution, and then live there for a while.
on the BBC website
You show em, brusma.
kind of messianic leader and fuck all the hot women in the group?
pub in Soho for tonight for an impromptu fake wake. Will send out deets shortly.
YEAH I'M GLAD SHE'S DEAD AFTER WHAT SHE DID TO ALL THOSE MINERS.
oh god i might just sign out of the internet for about a week
"r.i.p margaret thater and insparton to millions"
this would have been a MUCH better day for HTMHELL DAY v3
I don't advocate celebrating her death -- I think that's all too lacking in compassion, but I'm totally fine with joking relating to her politics and whatever, and can't stand the whole 'we need to be as respectful as possible' because it's just as insincere as tasteless unfunny joking around.
I suppose it is because she has long since ceased to matter.
My hatred of her is probably mostly nostalgic.
However when I am with others I will no doubt be able to share, celebrate and mourn (that she lasted long enough to do irrepairable damage to UK society).
I think that you might be missing the point that to celebrate her death is to EMPHASISE the hatred that you have for someone.....that this was not just someone that you did not like, but someone who was positively evil (if there can be such a thing), someone who hated some other humans so much, someone who allowed her ideas to ruin other people (up to and including their demise)
She was not simply an old woman, she had been a fearsome loathsome beast who hated some aspects of humanity.
I get this view much more, should be said.
Conservative MPs to fuse together to form a sort of Thatcher Megazord
But nah. Tramp the dirt down.
not really sure what that is though
like really really terrible
You're all tippy-tapping it around, where's the monstrous, apocalyptic largesse?
IF YOU DON'T MOURN HER THEN THE ARGENTINIANS HAVE WON.
Sigh... why can't we do brain dead jingoism as well as the States?
Then burn it and start a thread about how mouldy cheese must get before it is beyond saving.
I don't get what difference her death makes (to the haters).
If you're not: it's about image. Entirely.
Grow up. How old are you? 40?
so I had to live through that idiot Churchill's moronic second-term policies too
could taunt/torchure like with a death by a thousand cuts.....you've swung at his neck with a great big battleaxe aiming at decapitation, but you've missed and lost your footing, and now he will fly away
People shouting about her dying... I don't really care if it's an old woman or w/ever, but it's clearly more about being seen to be celebrating than having any legit thought process.
people know they're celebrating Easter
to remember her being in power.
Guys just before I blow out these candles on this big-ass cake or whatever we're doing to celebrate, I just need to check your thought processess. no no it'll only take a second... hands up who wants to be seen celebrating and... quiet down... hands up who is legit. Now if you're saying you're legit bear in mind that you really should have attended at least a couple of my previous birthday parties otherwise I will call you out so damn hard.
I'm glad we agree that this is entirely comparable.
100 per cent.
And as if the people going Akira at me right now aren't just irked because they've already been shoving stuff up on Facebook for a smorgasbord of armchair-politics points.
I'm still right. But note me giving ground below a little down there vvvv
I was meant to be kind of parodying what you were saying.
I was not being entirely serious with those three lines.
I wasn't saying that people need to think before they celebrate. I was saying in this case people need to be seen to be celebrating for point scoring. Which no one does on birthdays.
This is obviously no time for point scoring.
a) he was assassinated in a revenge mission, not allowed to die naturally
b) he was a byproduct of a system which Thatcher helped to run
so yeah, as far as I'm concerned, today isn't so much the celebration of a death as an opportunity to castigate a life
I've never seen it better expressed in fact.
but I think that I will still do both ;D
Its just why does it have to be death, because it's entirely possible she may have welcomed it, so it's not a punishment. Maybe it's because it's all there is.
Just been caught at work looking at limp bizkit lyrics. Margaret fuckign thatcher has alot to answer for.
a lot of people who have done a lot worse to the world have died before MT. Where's the celebration then?
you said people not old enough to have a grudge couldn't celebrate? i guess i was disagreeing with your "old enough" thing - does that mean people who were alive during her reign? 'cause, where i'm from, peoples lives, including that of their children and presumably as yet unborn children, are still negatively affected as a consequence of the things she did when in power
I know that what you say is true. I'm reacting largely to a lot of people who I know to have little-to-no interest in the way the country is run suddenly screaming about her death, and I can't see that as anything other than point scoring.
What you and DK say is true. I retract the broad brush strokes up there. ^ sorry you guys.
and makes me look even more insane.
whose life has not been influenced and affected by policies and politics introduced by Thatcher. Not a single one.
but... to the extent that CAPITAL LETTERS CELEBRATING DEATH is proportionate response? N-n-n-n-nope
I won't be celebrating her death. Not out of respect for her or proportionate response, but because she got to be fucking horrible and then live in luxury to old age. Other people can and will do what they want.
cw being killed, loosing your job loosing freinds etc?
I do not think that the use of upper case is disproportionate ......except the other way from what you were probably meaning
I bet all politicians dream of achieving that.
I've just temporarily left the room to repeatedly scream the name 'Hitler' into a pillow.
Pretty sure her legacy will affect people beyond those who were alive/affected during her time in power.
but he's American so probably not much difference I suppose.
She lived to 87 ffs. If she'd died while she was in office, that would have been a cause for celebration.
good time for burying bad news. and bad people.
My money's on Elton John singing Sorry Seems to Be the Hardest Word at Westminster Abbey
it's an emotional time for him.
a false, PR bullshit, tear, but there will be one or two.
and nothing else
Nothing is topping that
they both gave the minors a good seeing to
Something to do with fucking miners?
As a 36 year old, all I ever knew was a Thatcher led government until 1990. Like or loathe her, her policies did matter and did change Britain.
As a X year old, all I ever knew was a X led government until X. Like X or loathe X, her X did X and did X X.
Genuinely got reminded I need to buy some milk on the way home by this news.
Consecutive entries from today's Guardian live politics blog...
The death of Lady Thatcher is announced.
Margaret Thatcher has died, the BBC is reporting.
More from Ed Miliband in Ipswich:
Ed Miliband asked on walkabout in Ipswich about why the truth about UFOs is being hidden. His response: 'I can't do anything about it now'
That's a textbook politician's reply, although unfortunately it suggests that there's a secret Labour plan to expose the UFO cover-up after the party wins the election.
Miliband's answer would be priceless even if this was an ordinary news day.
last former PM Ted Heath?
Didn't even know if Reagan was dead or not
and Heath is right.
Anyway, my twitter feed is mostly just clogged up with them spaffing out articles about her. It's getting in the way of all the prize bellendery going on.
you've got something you can hate her for again: 'She will not have a state funeral but will be accorded the same status as Princess Diana and the Queen Mother...'
That is all I fucking care about.
wearing a see through dress, having a marriage to a man who cheated on her dreadfully, being killed by not wearing a seatbelt......being an alcaholic and inveterate gambler
type comments from MPs across the spectrum are slowly coalescing into a generic, approved bit of nonspeak that is making me feel a bit sick.
Would be a good day to be quiet though.
But this real-time carcrash of cowardice and pr crowdsourcing of acceptable phrases is really grim to watch.
might just be me.
I think Miliband got the tone right btw. A leader of the opposition can hardly make a "Ding Dong" statement.
He actually did a good job of being polite and respectful without airbrushing history.
I'm pretty sure his memo receiver is set to the wrong frequency
The BBC's typo was quite genius. That said, I'm turning off Twitter this afternoon. I'm not celebrating anyones death, even if she did a shit job.
Newsnight. 24 hour rolling news is always so bad when there's a news story like this.
Newsnight is frequently a steaming pile of arse.
She was a young boy's dream like Charlies Angels, Daisy Duke and Agnetha from Abba all rolled into one.
I for one will miss her. There will always be a screwed up bit of spunky toilet roll that is forever Maggie.
This is beautiful
people happy to proclaim how sad they are to hear that people are happy that she's dead
people banging on about how they're not looking at the internet for a while because it's monotonous, adding to the monotony
where the flag is the moral high ground, the map is post-industrial britain, the weapons are set to 'hyperlinks ONLY' and the characters are just the as the timesplitters 2 characters because why try and gild a lilly?
bagsy I get to be the robot made of cereal boxes
But yeah you're right...
looks like you've won!
No idea what it means
Better text him and check he's ok! :)
Thick Of It reference isn't it?
always assumed it's some kind of sci-fi/fantasy character.
the jungle canyon rope bridge snatcher.
I'm just imagining what it would be like if my Mum was some evil, right-wing cunt who'd overseen a government that did tremendous harm to the fabric of our nation and then she died and people were making jokes about it.
It's not all black and white.
...but something which is undeniable, regardless of whether or not it is felt that she was "right", is that she governed Britain in a frequently callous and uncaring fashion.
Given this, that her death receives frequent comment that is callous and uncaring is not at all surprising.
She comes out well either way, no?
he got paid money to 'hang around' when some arms deals were signed, to signify tacit approval from his mum, without it actually being official (Its in private eye, nothing contentious here)
Actually he isnt that clever though so he might not have realised.
I think her daughter actually tries to have a proper job, dunno how that went.....there moght be some bad things, but on the other hand the other side will be saying hyperbolic NICE things about her, so I wouldnt worry my pretty little head about them if I were you
On the (pretty useless) documentary Richard Bacon did on "trolls", several of them had the defence that their vitriol on RIP facebook pages was justified purely because they were annoyed by all the anonymous tributes. How different is this really? Obviously in this case people have genuine personal reasons for spouting bike, and I have nothing against considered opinions that are critical of her, but using the "well loads of other people are being nice" excuse doesn't cut it for me.
Bike! ... Bike, Bike!!!!
because there will also be loads of other people (who also didnt know her personally) who will be eulogising her.
PS I wouldnt go into someones RIP page or anything anyway
I think the old bird would approve.
soft scoop. so.
Had a 99 yesterday. It's not called a 99 anymore. Two flakes is bunny ears.
Says all you need to know, really.
and he launched into a 15 minute story of his trip with clients to parliament and then segued into talk of the ice bar in Leicester Square. So I now regret her death or maybe my mouth.
or hot, desk nob?
hotdesk behaviour. They're such dicks.
everyone knows ice bar is just off regent street
elections against oppositions that were unelectable and whose egos then inflated hugely. It's been a long long time since there's been two heavy weights like Disraeli and Gladstone on opposite side.
pathetic opposition partied during the their time out of office neither would have won three terms.
Seems totally normal but I can't imagine any other club doing it. I know we have more of a reason to do so but loads of cities were ruined by her. what about Celtic, scottishmen?
Bloody scousers eh
and instantly losing them a few thousand votes.
Jim Davidson being the warm up act.
It's like my empathy has been hollowed out and only an empty husk of a human remains.
I'm sure she would be proud of me.
Y'know how in Harry Potter, Dumbledore says "I will only truly have left this school when none here are loyal to me"?
Thatcher's death in itself is no victory, the victory will be when this country is empty of neoliberal politicians.
'Grantham and Stamford MP Nick Boles, says the late baroness continues to divide opinion among people in the town, describing her as "a bit like Marmite".'
Great work Silkz. Brown bread would have been better than toast but still.
would YOU work down a mine?
Are there any other jobs?
If it's the only employment in your town, and you'd be destitute without it, you do it.
At least, if they'd been around I'd have done it. Every other generation of my family has done it for so long that I'd have probably been the same. It helped pay my Dad through uni and I see no reason why I wouldn't have done the same. Would have paid better than some of the shitty jobs I've had.
People seem to think it's a throwback, but it's no different to any other manual work and it sustained communities for a long time.
The whole point of the mining argument is people did do it, and wanted to keep doing it because it was their livelihood. Live somewhere where entire villages were laid-off, then ask that question.
my Grandad was a Bevin boy from Shirebrook, i know the effects the closures had.
Given the lack of terrible spelling I'm guessing most of them are.
And here was me thinking the Manchester derby was the reason DiS would be an utter catastrophe today.
laughed a bit too much at this
That's the answer you deserve
tributes seems wholly unnecessary - YOU WILL MOURN!
are a rarity.
Even if he's not been found to be a war criminal by the time he dies.
was a world politician too. I'm not a fan of either but they were of huge significance to Britain and the world.
Just heard the news
can somebody summarise the thread?
Mandela has the last laugh
Others don't care.
EVEN LABOUR SUPPORTING SCARGILL DRESSING HARRY STYLES SHOWS HUMAN COMPASSION REGARDING MRS T'S DEATH. Take note please people.
really got me
helluva one-two punch :')
dropped my dinner on the floor.
(^first draft, needs a lot of work)
This day's tea is not fork turning.
Spent ages on this shit.
Is this the official remembrance photo shoot or something?
Was all I got in Berlin - had no idea what tot meant ... sort of.
they can't really complain when the Socialist Worker does what it's done: https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/321382251168411649/photo/1
and sadly nobody in the UK is bothered
Poor kitten will be turning in her grave (mortuary drawer).
A lot of you wouldn't have these cushy non-jobs in the services industry which allow you the time out of your working day to fill up the internet with your guff had Thatcher not done what she did.
Living in the North I'm not particularly gutted that I never got the 'opportunity' to work in a coal mine or on a production line.
A lot of the decisions her government made were to make Britain more reliant on tertiary/services industries. Whether it was for the ultimate good of the 'common man' is up for debate, but I for one can't see a lot of today's kids being happy going down t'pit or standing at conveyor belts for their crust. Let's face it, most of us enjoy the benefits of not living in a stone age society.
she caused, or at least solidified and grew, an underclass of people with zero hope or prospects. she deliberately destroyed working class communities and towns and set back the unions and working poor by decades. not really that arsed about the relative comfort of the middle class.
She may have been more overt than most about shaking up the country's industry but it was just a matter of time whoever was in power. There's always going to be nations who treat the poor even worse than we do undercutting us in things like mining and manufacturing. I was only six when she left power so can't comment on how unpleasant the changes must have been at the time, but it does allow me to evaluate them without the emotional bias. And to me they were probably necessary to keep the UK competitive in the modern world.
from someone grown up in a post-Thatcher Britain having known nothing else
Germany still has a manufacturing economy
Sweden has logging and mining
The Dutch and the Finns have an exceptionally high standard of public health and education
accepting the 'inevitability' of what you've been handed is a massively lazy way to view the world and the alternatives and possibilities that are in it
towards the tertiary, supporting those who had been made unemployed, retraining and rebuilding communities, perhaps with the money made from selling off all the old industries and public services or the money from North Sea oil, simillar to how countries like Germany, Holland, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Canada have done.
But no, she left them to rot, and handed the money back to those at the top in the form of tax cuts.
So I find it sort of hilarious how US conservatives are mourning her passing.
Oh and btw, she probably saved Britain from facing the same death spiral of Spain, Ireland, Italy, Cyprus and ...
(Yeah, there's probably got to be a balance between the profit-maximizing free-market capitalism and decent-human-being liberal policies. Yeah, money doesn't grow on trees, no shit.)
She made a lot of tough decisions. Sure, the coal-mining strike business was shite, but it would have been shite for anybody in office at the time.
She kicked a little Argentine ass when everybody was telling her to let it go. Yeah, you know, hey FUCK THAT. Good on Maggie!
You guys really ought to cut her some slack, eh.
No she didn't
It was so blatant as to be able to be described as vote rigging. It took nearly a decade to fix the mess she made
Have all fallen into their position having followed neo-liberal economic policy, with an over-reliance on their banking and property sectors with no safeguards or protections?
which allowed us to be be able to absorb the spiralling costs of unemployment and whatever else caused by her policies without bankrupting the nation.
This saved Britain for the most part - not Thatcherism.
Yes it does, it's made of paper.
Can anyone bullet point the reasons why Thatcher is so hated?
It goes a little hazy for me once I get past privatisation, milk snatching and closing down mining pits.
sold off council housing, which has left the housing industry the way it is
3 million unemployed.. it wasnt just the mines she closed, all heavy industry suffered. She destroyed the ship builders, steel workers, coal miners and the trade unions. Divide and conquer was the plan, open up the boarders and encourage racial and cultural conflict.
Unregulated military.. so many shady arms deals.
"there is no such thing as society"
sticking fuckloads of people in former industrial towns on incapacity benefit, effectively providing the set-up for much of the current anti-welfare rhetoric
opposed sanctions against South Africa - supporting apartheid and calling Mandela a terrorist in the process
Mates with Saddam & Suharto etc.
Let the N.I. hunger strikers die
Created a thug Police force that acted for her against strikers & protesters
but mainly neoliberal economic policy that drove a wedge between the working classes and the rest of the country. Divided wealth between the north and south and fostered an attitude of greed and indivisualism
also called feminism a poison
and then there was The Falklands
and supported the banning of english teams playing in Europe
who pushed through some unnecessarily brutal (and basically discredited now) economic policies that left entire generations in parts of the country on the economic scrapheap. she began the slow and steady march towards our current situation where entire parts of our public realm are now privatised, and devalued the very concept of the "public good". she neutered the idea of social housing, created today's unsustainable property market and housing crisis, and ended the idea that everyone should have a decent home. she pursued policies that led to the widening of the wealth gap between the highest and lowest earners for the first time since the 1950s, and massively increased the north-south divide. she cosyed up to Pinochet, a tyrant responsible for thousands of deaths.
basically (HYPERBOLE), if you can think of something you don't like about the UK today, chances are it has its routes in the selfish politics of Thatcher's Tory party.
Depending on where you sit politically you might argue, as she did, that she was merely administering unpleasant medicine to a very sick patient. But many, many people suffered a lower quality of life because of her policies and politics ... Whether or not that was through ideological intent or the 'greater good', that many suffered is irrefutable and anyone who pretends to not understand why so many people despise her is not to be trusted.
Basically, she was Dumbledore.
Was he a massive cunt too?
I just remember that phrase being used.
making the most valuable contribution
I don't feel I can actually, as I don't know enough about her. I'm 23, and don't come from an industrial background. The only thing that impacts a strong emotional response from my family was the Falklands, as my dad was in the Navy at the time, and the family view of that was that it was something that had to be done.
To Lolpop, I would say this: As you can see, she elicits very strong gut reactions from a lot of people on both sides of the spectrum (though DIS is not exactly a stronghold for right of centre views). I would suggest getting a couple of books which looks at her time in power from both sides. It's what I'm going to do.
I'm open minded, as long as they are well written.
But it's by Charles Moore, a High Tory former Telegraph editor, so make of that what you will.
Her own memoirs are being republished as a single volume autobiography too, will be out this week.
It's a novel, and satirical, and rather silly, and very anti thatcher, but it's one of the best books i've ever read and i strongly recommend it
but plenty on here have them and air them. And what mostly happens is that they see those views systematically torn apart with accompanying citations and evidence illustrating why they're wrong. And they come back with virtually nothing of worth because their original statement was based on nothing of substance.
^That's not what happens in every situation, but it's par for the course. Not that I'm absolving 'the left' here, you understand...
To be fair I'd say that Its probably not that unusual for someone to share the depth of political knowledge that I have. Outside of Dis, that is.
But no, I was generally interested.
i don't think it's unusual at all
I feel as if all the info I get fed about her comes from a rigidly anti-Thatcher position, with little light or shade. Makes me a little distrustful of it, as it's never really balanced in anyway.
pollution would be a lot worse if it weren't for her it would.
There's no such thing as society
(needs some work)
"Margaret Hilda Roberts embodied everything that is narrow-minded and philistine in the English middle class. She was preoccupied solely with self-advancement and enrichment, owing much of her success to having secured a rich husband. Her political talents, such as they were, consisted of the nasty cunning and ruthlessness of the social climber... a relative non-entity and political sociopath"
"The miners’ defeat was the signal for the open abandonment by the trade unions and Labour of any defence of the social interests of the working class. “New realism” became the code-word for renouncing any notion of class struggle and workers’ solidarity, the embrace of the “free market” and Labour’s transformation into an overt right-wing party of big business"
given that its got nothing to do with Socialist Worker
Not arsed about how much of a raving fascist that makes me look.
She looks about 87!
'What is more troubling is my inability to ascertain where my own selfishness ends and her neo-liberal inculcation begins. All of us that grew up under Thatcher were taught that it is good to be selfish, that other people's pain is not your problem, that pain is in fact a weakness and suffering is deserved and shameful.'
Though I don't always agree with him, Brand is a really talented writer.
But I did a quick thatcherdoodle for a shirt company who are selling these 'Milk Snatcher' t-shirts for a tenner - and all profit (about £8 off each t-shirt sold) is going to the homeless charity Shelter.
Good cause and all that.
unlikely i reckon.
Probably as good an OP as was ever seen on the site.