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and say *hmmm interesting* after it. Has he taught you nothing?
I was watching This Morning.
what are the pros and cons?
Probably best to leave it to the government, I reckon.
Probs best to keep it illegal, then no-one will do it.
Do you just mean street walking etc? Prostitution isn't actually illegal.
iirc you can't run a brothel or a massage establishment but a single woman/man advertising sexual services is perfectly legal.
It'll happen whatever so is it better to regulate it and make it safe for the workers or just give it to criminal gangs who will abuse and traffik people?
but being the customer of a prostitute is illegal
and pimping or otherwise profiting from prostitution is illegal
so, the question is probably more pertinent as 'how should it be made legal' rather than 'should it be legalised'
She's doing nothing wrong, etc, etc
You even have to pay tax on your earnings.
to help pay for my studies
I don't think theres anything wrong with it really
Did you always give a happy ending?
and changed in 2003. Apparently prostituion numbers haven't risen due to lax laws (even decreased in some cases) so it's not like prostitutes are going to rush the streets if there is a reform.
I don't really know much about this issue, but the idea of prostitutes being given more rights and safer work conditions because of a change of law to me sounds pretty good.
Legalisation means better and hopefully safer working conditions - you have sex workers running brothels together, rather than being exploited by the owners. (I had a friend who was a sex worker in the mid-90s, she'd get fined for turning up to work late, that sort of thing - almost certainly illegal but it's not like you can complain).
It's going to happen, so the priority should be protecting the workers.
Then why not?
Then the trade is opened up to health checks which help reduce sexual diseases, sex-workers are protected from exploitation by pimps or even sex-trafficking, and violence against prostitutes will be ended. It would reduce the revenue of organised crime gangs.
It also creates an opportunity for the significant sub-set of drug-using prostitutes to have better access to treatment, and would also allow more access to schemes to empower prostitutes to learn further skills to allow them to change to a more enjoyable career.
There is also the benefit of being able to control the location of brothels.
I find it really hard to believe that legalising prostitution has to go hand in hand with scores of men going "oh, it's now ok to go and do that - what do you think fellas, let's go down the brothel after we finish our drinks." Guys use them now, a lot of men who want to use one are going to use one, even though it's 'illegal'.
it wouldn't necessarily follow that all prostitution would become regulated and above board. Prostitution isn't a profession like 'postman' or whatever that just happens to be illegal, it's fundamentally tied up with drug abuse, trafficking and, ahem, 'criminality'. If it was legalised would your average crack-addicted Slovakian illegal immigrant say 'hooray' and toddle off to the nearest council offices to register for her free health checks? I'm guessing not.
Slovakian illegal immigrants to have a license or to work in a place that is licensed to have sex workers.
To be honest I don't know enough about it but I'd be curious to hear in places like Holland whether drugs and trafficking are a problem.
it's possible you have a crack-addicted illegal immigrant Slovakian for a postman, but because the post industry is (notionally) regulated it's more likely you don't
if that type of prostitution wouldn't be allowed under regulation it wouldn't make a difference as it's not allowed now. You could argue that regulated brothels would corner the market and satiate the 'need' but a) markets don't work like that and b) the David Pleats of this world kerb-crawl for a reason, I don't think you'd find them using legal brothels.
Also, I don't think that legalisation/regulation would necessarily get women out of the bad situations they're in - if you're addicted to crack and your dealer is forcing you into prostitution, legalisation isn't going to instantly solve that problem, although I guess it could as part of a more comprehensive package of measures. The worry though is with legalisation then the crack addicts et al won't be saved, they'd just be pushed further to the fringes of society and end up in more danger (like in Bradford and Ipswich).
But anyway, I agree with your last line so maybe I'll shut up about it.
Sorry, was struggling for vocab in that post.
Especially if you slap a relatively large fine on anyone caught soliciting sex from unlicensed sex workers.
Genuinely think it'd make a big difference but am quite willing to be proved one if there's facts that stand in the way of what seems to me a logical argument.
All we need to do next would be to largely legalise drugs so the criminal element controlling that and forcing women into prostitution is eroded as well.
so ahm oot.
the prossies down my way are all sunken-eyed and damaged by drugs, if legalisation would raise the standard then yes i'm all for that.
that allows the national prostitute system to be regulated but operated by private firms.
miniature American flags for others
Massage parlours exist in every town and city and are allowed to run freely by both the police and government. They're only ever closed if either there's an ongoing legal battle against an owner for other activities or if they're thought to partake in stuff like employing illegal immigrants or underage women.
Women are also allowed to sell sex on the street, and men, if they want to, allowed to buy it. They rarely get arrested, they're simply encouraged to move to less public areas and (the women, at least) are rightly offered advice from police and medical services.
They'll probably never go the full hog and legalise it simply because huge parts of the British population are still god botherers, and it would probably send out the wrong message anyway. Probably easier for the suits if it exists, is semi-regulated, those who either use such services or who aren't offended by them know they exist, those who prefer to sweep it under the carpet or pretend that we live in some sort of ethical society can continue to do that.
Anyway, off to Temperance Street to get a public handjob...
and all of the private call girl websites about.
i'd be more likely to use a prostitute's services if it were fully legal etc idk
as it stands i 100% would never use a prostitute, as much for my ego as my ethics
if it was completely legit, it's possible that i'd consider it in some circumstances
ok, maybe if a homicidal maniac was threatening to kill orphans if i didnt give a prostitute 10p and sex her up
hence me saying it
if your concern is your ego and your ethics.
Either you'd sleep with someone for money or you wouldn't, regardless of how legal or illegal it is.
legal=destigmatised=less damaging to ego
legal=less involved in criminality/trafficking/exploitation=more ethical.
circumstances in which i'd //consider// paying a prostitute if legal:
*less awkward threesomes with partner if she was interested
*being single and something happening to me that left me unable to get sex for free
but might in the future and would be happy to use one in the future if it was legal and you NEEDED it?
Doesn't make sense. Either you are okay with it or you're not. Its like saying 'I'm really against murder but if it became legal and I needed to kill someone, i'd probably kill someone'
The act of sleeping with someone for money is the act you should be opposing to for whatever reason. You shouldn't not want to do that because its illegal.
You said that because there is a stigma against using prostitutes that is what will dent your ego rather than actually paying someone for their sexual favors. Your ego should be related to the fact you have to pay someone for sex.
all i'm saying is that i don't agree that legalising prostitution would, as a few people have said, have no effect on the numbers of men using prostitutes.
so I reckon the numbers would stay the same but it would seem more as people would be more open about it.
yes, i'm really against murder, but if i needed to kill someone in self defence (ie it became legal) i'd probably kill them
i said i'd be happier to
"YOU WANNA BUY SEX PAL?"
"YA CAN CUM ON MA TETS, PAL"
I'm guessing, given the general bedwetter vibe, that most people on here won't have either. But you never know.
Anyone want to admit a sneaky paid for nosh, a cheeky bought handjob...zzzz etc
for a laugh, I think. Her and a mate went to Kings X to hang around and see what happens, the next minute a small army of scantily clad women come running towards them shouting "GET OFF OUR PATCH".
was going to be a prostitute once for a laugh
for a laugh
What a lot of prosititues want is decrminalisaton rather than legalisation, I think. So they don't want a system where they'd have to go and register and stuff, because lets face it, it'd still be massvely socially stigmatised. They just want a situation where it is ok to work with their mates and if anyone is a massive abusive dickhead they can go to the police without risking getting the place they're working in/their mates in trouble.
I think really loads of measures should be taken to make it far safer for women who do work as prostitues and more avoidable if it is something that they have had to do. I think some prostitues would rather it was treated as just a regular job, where if anything went wrong they could get help but there is no need for excessive checks/registration and that?
why have i not spelt this right ONCE
can't really have it both ways, can you?
groups like the english collective of prosititues say they'd happily pay tax if prosititution was decriminalised/'legalised' to a certain extent. also i think some prosititues do pay tax without declaring where they've earned it, i've heard a few stories about that.
i think it's just really how far you try and 'regulate it', like i think in nz it's legal to work in a house with four of your mates without registering it as a brothel or whatever, and any more you have to. it makes it a lot safer to do on a smaller scale without putting people at risk of other things. it's all about making people far more likely to undergo health checks/report abusive behaviour to the police/be able to function in society especially on an 'official level' without putting them at further risk or making their lives worse in other ways.
dont think i really see how the definitions of decriminalised and legalised can be so tightly applied to the dividing line you're talking about.
also, what you're talking about seems to perpetuate the stigma of prostitution, and not actually solve inherent issues.
are prostitutes in the netherlands ashamed and anonymous?
yeah i don't really think it is such a tight division, but i think decrminalisation is kind of the first step because legalisation can have quite bad repercussions for people who work in prositution, depending on how its done. that's totally not clear from what i've said. i think we're saying the same thing but i'm SHIT AT WORDS.
i don't think it perpetuates the stigma. i think that people working in prostitution are very aware of the stigma and have to deal with personal issues as well as societal condemnation and would rather avoid the consequences of this stigma and continue doing their jobs safely whilst working to make it less stigmatised in the long run.
i dunno if prostitutes in the netherlands are ashamed or anonymous.
i have no idea either. i do know that they have brothels with windows displaying the workers, so it can't be very anonymous
dunno how long it's been legal there (forever?) so dunno what sort of time frame is involved in destigmatising stuff.
and im not googling it at work
but there's so many different models for legalisation around the world/so many different people within protitution that its hard to say LEGALISING PROSITUTION IS GREAT IN ALL CASES
and trafficking is still a pretty huge issue there (reliable source alert!) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_Netherlands#Human_trafficking - the question of whether it increased, decreased or stayed the same after legalisation is not entirely clear and it's hard to get concrete numbers on this stuff, but it's interesting that the netherlands is the main country that has been mentioned in this thread when it's one of the places that suggests that legalisation very much does not result in all the nasty crime and coercion elements going away (or even dramatically reducing)
i don't know that much about it but i think new zealand is considered a more successful
anyway, i'm pretty conflicted about all this because on the one hand, as per icwar's posts, whatever measures make life better and safer for women working in prostitution should be the priority; on the other hand, even in completely legal circumstances, i can't help but consider men who visit prostitutes to be doing an unethical thing, because since coercion is unlikely to completely disappear, not because buying sex is inherently or abstractly unethical but because there is always going to be a chance that you are actually raping somebody. there may be choices you can make to minimise that possibility, but the very idea that your right to have sex with a woman is worth the risk that you might be having sex with a woman who actually really, really does not want to be doing this is... pretty fucking gross, tbh. in a post-capitalist feminist utopia where all sex workers are doing it simply cos it's what they fancy doing for a living? sure thing. but in the world we live in, it's incredibly hard to be sure how much agency any individual sex worker does or does not have. the problem with this, of course, is that women in prostitution rely on clients to make a living, so there's something of a contradiction between being anti-client and pro-sex worker's rights
which was a good one tbf
though i'd read a bit about the trafficking and stuff :(.
everything that i've read about nz has made it seem far better for the people who have chosen to work in prosititution (for whatever reasons), though people who are trafficked/forced into it are always gonna have absolutely shit lives and thats such a massive part of what needs to change
whilst a hypothetical prostitute can't solicit people, they're more than welcome to advertise their services and then declare their income in order to pay tax, like they would for any freelance work.
so even if prostitution is as you say 'essentially legal' it'll help to drive it further underground and make it harder for prostitutes to work and work safely.
i think at this point in time, it's definitely more about trying to make it a lot safer and destigmatised rather than anything else and that's kinda what measures to decriminalise/legalise prosititution are about i guess.
so I definitely agree with your last point. I can't really google the latest facts on adult work but I thought they were largely cracking down on establishments used to supply sexual services i.e brothels and massage parlours.
which means that people increasingly are going to have less safe places where they can work with their mates or other prostitutes which will make it less safe for them. fucked up man.
Shouldn't rent boys get the same protections?
but they probably need them less
I think it's fine to have sex for money and I would be ok with having sex for money with someone who I wanted to have sex with for money who knew I was ok with having sex with them for money.
£20 for hand holding
£21 for full sex
Dunno what kinda of person would want to pay that but that's the rate and I'd have to fancy them.
technical jacket? couple of dissers PM'd me to ask (couple - Theo)
do they have to list all their acts and invoices, like 475 blowjobs at £50 a pop?