UK to fight EU plan to cap bankers' bonuses
This is possibly the most deluded measure to come from Europe since Diocletian tried to fix the price of groceries across the Roman empire.
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fucking quotes
the above is from Boris (obviously)
and the stand first was: David Cameron and Boris Johnson concerned that capping bonuses at basic salary will scare banks away from London
Banks fucked up London
It's about cocking time they were attempted to be regulated in some way.
Why the politicians are so scared to meddle at all with banks because of the economy when a near-unregulated banking sector destroyed the economy.
Wanky shit twats.
Classic knee-jerk
legislating.
classic!
Classic knee jerk reaction to government legislating over business practices
knee jerk?
It takes 4 years to jerk a knee?
GayGuevara to thread
Just out of interest
What power does the EU have to stop bankers working for American based banks such as JP Morgan or Goldman Sachs getting paid their bonuses in share options in the US parent company? Not really their jurisdiction is it?
^pretty much the point
This is similar to the reason why the legislation to split up the banks into their constituent parts (investment & retail) wil be watered-down too
The TALENT might leave
.... of you fuck then.
jesus, quotes, I give up today
appear ... argh
bonuses are taxed year?
I find it concerning that publicly owned banks appear to be paying high bonuses, but surely the EU cannot impose or control the top level of wages that a private business pays out.
from the article
The agreement in Brussels came as the Royal Bank of Scotland posted losses of more than £5bn after paying out more than £600m in bonuses.
Accounting losses, sure
Operating profits of £3.5bn, though.
*Accounting operating profits
That's a slightly false picture though because
the majority of the losses were due to writing off huge debts incurred years ago. The RBS retail activities actually make a profit, it's just that they disappear into a black hole created by the previous management
It's the same as Lloyds though
Their operating profit is being destroyed by the massive PPI provision they have to make every year.
Not quite sure how anyone can argue that a figure is unfairy skewed,
If a profit is wiped out by the compensation a company is having to pay out due to illegal activities.
If you follow that argument, you should really go back and adjust the banks' historical profit figures to discount the extra money they made from selling PPI or rigging the Libor.
On a side note
US banks in 2012 had their 2nd most profitable year EVER
Also
Bob Diamond 'earned' £10,000 an hour for 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year over 6 years as Chief Exec of Barclays while they were manipulating Libor
ain't life grand
Fucking insane money.
I'd work hard for a week and quit. Maybe two.
nah
you wouldn't walk away from £400,000 a week unless you REALLY had to
not for the first 3 or 4 months anyhow
Regulation of the financial services industries
particularly that in the UK is one thing I believe absolutely fervently in.
Capping bonuses, however, is a silly way of doing it. Banks can give people as high a bonus as they like, if it's beneficial to their business model. Bonuses really aren't the issue in my mind.
Tell us more about your opinions on regulation?
(genuinely)
I don't really know enough about the nuts and bolts of it
to know what would work and what wouldn't. However, what I do know is we have reached an absurd situation in which the main powering force behind our supposed economic growth is being run with a logic of the ultimate triumph of greed over common sense. This came to a head in 2007/8 with the credit cruch and following global recession. We learnt about all manner of things about derivatives trading, about the packaging of debts, about the horrors of sub-prime mortgages and the repackaging of credit as something to sell to vulnerable people.
Typing all of this back makes me feel sick to my stomach. Successive governments did NOTHING about this. Absolutely nothing. The industry was allowed to run on its own logic and did so (especially in the US, but in the UK too) by a sustained campaign of lobbying and creative accounting. Successive governments created a monster which it was unable to control and were led to believe that any attempts too control it would lead to economic collapse. Well, the opposite happened.
Barack Obama isn't interested in sorting any of this out in the US, I know that (all of his key economic advisers etc. are people who are either ex-lobbyists or were high up in banks before the crash etc.) In the UK legislation NEEDS to be put through to monitor the activity of the banking sector more closely and to have more thorough auditing of its methods and products. It is a beast that if it operates on its own accord will spiral out of control. Which it did for too long and has caused untold hardship.
As such, capping bankers bonuses doesn't really help with this. It doesn't help regulate, it doesn't help audit and it doesn't help anything become more transparent. All it does is give a tokenistic and symbolic gesture to the people who supposedly `caused` the problem, when in reality they were abusing a system that allowed them to do it. Pay bankers as much as you want. Changing how much they get paid, to satisfy some kind of public bloodlust and little else, won't change anything.
while this is a great post and all undoubtedly true
Banker's bonuses do run into the billions and therefore would/could have a significant difference to the throughput of the economy and the general above-the-law attitude of certain institutions (and wider in the general 'executive class')
but of course I would like to see instead a concentration on better regulation, transparency and above all accountability - if CEOs and traders really had the risk of ending up in prison how would that not have had a controlling effect on the risks they took that led to collapse?
then again I don't think this ought to be an either/or situation
nor do I think that regulation of this type should be limited to banks - it should be common to all corporate activity
Yeah I think we're on the same page here.
And I agree that the eye-watering sums of money that get thrown around do feed into the organisational culture and, as a result, its practice.
I just think there are many things to get hot under the collar about re: the banking system before you start to legislate about the bonuses people get paid within it is all. But, sure, it's not an either/or situation.
just shoot 'em all and let god decide
yours, an atheist
This is more a shot across the bows
than a serious proposition. As noted above, the EU would be unable to enforce any such proposal. However, the 'talent' (ha!) would not leave because there is too much money to be made in Europe.
It's a silly game where one side pretends to be tough and the other side pretend to be frightened by this.
I often wonder how safe bankers must feel
or if they have nightmares (or fantasies) about being torn apart by ravening crowds (like in zombie films)
They probably don't give a toss either way
I know I wouldn't...
Surely the only reason anyone is opposed to this
Is because they might not get a new Maserati from Daddy for their birthday this year
hey
those luxury cars aren't going to buy themselves.
I think some people are going to be opposed
for the same reasons they're opposed to lots of other well intentioned legislation - it's poorly thought out and unlikely to have the desired effect.
The more I think about it...
...the more I think it isn't even that well-intentioned!
Well, yeah.
I guess it's got all the hallmarks of being designed to be crowd pleasing rather than well intentioned, but I'll given them the benefit of the doubt for now.
I know more needs to be done
But surely it's a start.
It's probably the most that can be done, given how banking high-ups seem to be so intertwined with government, and probably have more of an effect on people's financial wellbeing than any government could anyway.
I am a bit fed up of bankers bonuses being the popular punching bag
When the problems are far far more deeply rooted in the financial services industries than just bonuses.
That said, opposing this is bonkers
Agree that bonuses are just an easy point-scoring side issue here.
It's a phenomenon that people can understand and get easily het up about.
Ultimately the longer term challenges lie in sensible reform of a financial services industry that ameliorate the risks of a future crisis akin to what we saw in 2008. Part of that will be very difficult to do given the dominance of high volume trading and firms developing incredibly sophisticated algorithms to get a tiny edge in very brief transactions. But it somehow must be done, either through the re-inforcing of Tier 1 capital requirements as in Basel III or through other methods.
Also, hundreds of thousands if not millions of people work in financial services in the UK.
We shouldn't take crowd pleasing measures that risk firms withdrawing staff and depleting a sector that has traditionally been a strength for the UK (not just in mega high paid casino banking roles).
Unless I've misread it,
The cap on bonuses would only apply to one-off cash payments anyway. The measure would also look to make long-term or tied bonuses easier to award.
One might think that it would be in shareholder's interests to press for longer term bonuses that encourage sustainable business practices, but given that the majority of shareholders are the financial institutions themselves, that might be asking too much.
to me its a cultural issue
the management culture at banks has to change. You don't do that by capping bonuses.
Here's an interesting article
that deals with the incentivisation of bonus culture
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2013/02/27/why-its-smart-to-be-reckless-on-wall-street/