Can you code?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKIu9yen5nc
I'm trying to learn (for about the fifth time). Bloody difficult though, isn't it? I imagine 20 years from now it will be something young generations learn as standard along with maths, english, etc.
Coders: how long did it take to 'break the back' of learning? Were there any 'a-ha' breakthrough moments? Is it an innate ability? Can anybody learn? Best language to begin learning?
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Yeah.
Helps a lot to have an analytical/logical mind and to enjoy problem solving.
do you even code?
depends what you mean by 'code'
I work as a front end web developer so I'm shit hot with html/css/JavaScipt.
Wouldn't know my arse from my elbow with any .NET type stuff though...
Yeah, I was referring more to the program building type stuff.
I could build a decent enough website with just a text editor using HTML/CSS and basic javascript (given enough time), but when it comes to Python, C, Objective C, etc. I'm lost.
Not putting down your art at all. There's a difference between knowing HTML, CSS, etc. and being really good at it, obviously.
If you can make sense of JavaScript then .Net will seem like a walk in the park.
I'm trying to teach myself css and javascript at the moment
Taught myself basic html way back, and it was dead easy. Had a very brief foray into js and gave up before you could say object-oriented language.
Looking into css, the free online tutorials are pretty useless and I don't think I'll get very far — which is annoying, because I wanna know.
exnay on the odingcay
Solve your problem on paper first
Then code the solution. At Uni I was always too eager to just get on the computer and bash out lines of code, I'd end up with a complete mess of a program.
I'm well into my shell scripting at the moment, love it. So powerful.
html: good
css: good
java: learning/hating
yes.
can code delphi, html, and VB. and probably a few others considering.
oh and css a bit though i've not done any of that in ages.
i made a mp3 jukebox in delphi as a teenager that i liked to use. i converted it to vb and also made an AI built noughts and crosses in VB too for advanced higher
Yo
<p>Does this strip out tags?</p>
oh cool it doesn't
I'm a web designer so I do HTML and CSS and JAVASCRIPT (I am pretty shit at javascript tho, lots of hacking of stuff and trial and error).
I'm not that great, loads of my css could be alot better optimised I think.
My skill base goes more towards the actual design stuff than the front end dev stuff really, the coding is a mean to an end.
All that actual proper coding just goes right over my head - it looks like a nightmare. Our back end web dev guy loves it - codes until 3 in the morning on worknights, some people just seem to have an aptitude and passion for it. bloody geeks.
also -
i'm mostly self taught, i imagine i have shit loads of bad habits
got any advice/tips for self-teaching css and javascript?
um......
not really - a lot of it i've learnt on the job.
I don't think i've learnt in a particularly robust fashion, i imagine there slots of hole sin my knowledge.
I'd recommend you refresh yourself with html first as if you learnt ages ago you might find it's moved on a bit.
CSS is pretty easy really (in principal) - it's all the problems getting it to work well across browsers that takes the time.
No tips at all with javascript, I suck at it!
just looking at the code academy css tutorial
slightly better than the ones I've tried before. I get the basics, but it's the leap from the basics to anything that's a bit more than basic styling that's the issue.
I think the really big thing is knowing what things can be selectors, and the properties of those selectors... which I guess takes us back to your first point about refreshing html.
i'm probably not too ace at selectors myself
especially the new css3 ones.
What are you trying to learn, and what do you already know?
If it's web-based stuff you're interested in:
1. Start with HTML/CSS.
2. Have a look at Javascript/jQuery.
3. Try a simple web programming language - PHP/Ruby on Rails. You'll need to learn about databases around this point, either through native SQL (recommended) or by using abstraction layers.
4. If necessary, move onto something 'bigger'. .NET et al, Java etc.
With databases
I'd say it's well worth learning the basics of how Relational Schemas are set up and the like, but please, please, please use an abstraction layer when accessing them from your code unless you're well versed in what you're doing - so many security holes are caused by naive use of raw SQL.
Oh, absolutely
I was suggesting that it's good to understand how SQL works natively before using abstraction layers.
you what mate?
:D
JCES TRAC FORTRAN PASCAL ALGOL Assembler
but although Ive coded in them Ive forgotton most of those
BASIC and COBOL
Im meant to have learnt java but I've never really used it in anger
fortran?!
mentalist
my favourate activity is tackling huge monstrous chimeric Databases that have evolved over many years by absorbtion of others
trying to understand the nature of everything within it, using SQL to cutting it down to size and getting the measure of it.
and then ending up with the gizards of the nature of the data and having the blind end rubbish stuff that you know is safe to disregard
Doin this also means that you can end up with the most bizarre histories to some data
which is kind of like a bizarre book of someones activities....some of them are very baffling
sounds like a fun night in
did a few bits and pieces at uni but nothing useful
mostly in Pascal
not done any for a while either
been busy with my dubstep album
:D
i've basically learnt from VBA
learnt VBA, had projects to do and got more complex, teaches you the basics
now learning java and doesn't seem to bad. I am using an IDE though.
I know a very little bit of Python
Would love to do more but I just don't have the time just now.
I satisfy my tinkering needs for the time being with Linux fiddling.
Nah, I'ma try and learn though
Then we can blame you for the ropy match engines?
;)
:D
I don't think any amount of coding experience would get me anywhere near the match engine
To be fair
I'm well impressed with it - daft bugs aside, it's a far better simulation of something than anything else I've ever seen. Props to whichever Collier it is that works on it.
It's Paul
It blows my mind tbh, god knows how many years in the making and code on top of code on top of code to get something that for all intense and purposes does a very realistic job of modelling real football with all it's variables and random factors. It's a stunning achievement.
i'm a Python fan
i think that's a good starter language. it's also super powerful
it really bugs me that it uses white space to divide code up though
granted it means that you have to puncuate your code properly but still.
yeah i found that weird
having to make the indents line up
www.codeacademy.com is a nice way to learn the basics.
I'm self taught (html,css,js,As2 and php) and found the best way to learn was being thrown in the deep end and actually having a goal or project to work towards is better than going through textbooks and exercises. Because I always had trouble imagining how different pieces fit together to make the final thing.
Yeah, I've been using Codeacademy.
Also going through the lectures on Khan Academy and iTunes U. There's a plethora of amazing instruction and guidance out there available for free, so no reason not to learn basically.
I did the html/css and javascript courses on there
html/css was nice and easy but I got really confused by javascript and kind of gave up 'cause I'm a massive pussy. I just kept copying and pasting stuff from the forums 'cause I couldn't work it out myself and didn't really learn much. My fault though, not the course itself. Good site.
copying and pasting javscript and then amending it is pretty much what i do in my job
Can I have it please?
same here
being self taught I just found stuff online that worked and changed it round to fit. I've started going back to the basics of javascript recently though as I never learned it,just to get a better grasp of the fundamentals more than anything. So I can apply for better jobs rather than having to google everything.
Yeah my job has changed a bit in the last year
I've kindof been thrown into the deep with with the JavaScript stuff, no training offered of course.
I've ended up making pretty (I think) complex stuff whilst having little idea of the basics. I might do the same as you, give myself some more solid foindations
its deffintaly worth it
also it makes tweaking other peoples code easier because you know what your looking for.
Did the same with PHP, no prior experience and was expected to work on our CMS stuff, picked it up quickly but I'd fucked writing anything from scratch.
oh, cool
hopefully this one's better than the others
that code academy looks quite good
i might use that to bush up a bit on some stuff
the live editor is a bit buggy
keeps saying I've not done something I've just finished doing. I have to shift the cursor around a bit before it accepts the fact that I've done what they've asked me to do.
BAD CODING RIGHT THERE!
try a different browser?
no way!
sure Camino hasn't been updated in about 3 years, but it's still the fastest browser I've ever used.
i can do a bit of After Effects Expression but I mostly just cut and paste/modify found ones :-S
I'm collecting useful AE bits and pieces on my defunct drawing blog here, might be useful to anyone using after effects: http://timdrage.blogspot.co.uk/
i've played around in aftereffects a liitle bit
like so
https://vimeo.com/55593892
but haven't looked into expressions at all - everything has been done kinda manually
is the coding stuff a steep learning curve or not too bad?
it's easy in that you can usually just search for what you're trying to do on creativecow forums and someone will have already done it and you can just copy and paste :D
Also you can pick-whip things in AE to connect them with expressions so you sometimes don't even need to write any code at all
+ nice stuff by the way ^_^
oh fanks mate
big fan of yr stuff too.
obvs not that noise racket - load of old rubbish :P
:D
<marquee> I have no idea what I'm doing </marquee>
I've learnt VBA and some SQL through work
Started the Code Academy thing and found that ok so far. Trying to learn C++ at uni alongside people who were way better than me put me off a bit but I'd like to do more. If you want to get a job doing it what's the best way of going about it? Try out a few different languages and see what area of it you prefer?
free computer science courses from a Harvard lecturer
http://www.openculture.com/2013/02/learn_to_code_with_harvards_intro_to_computer_science_course_and_other_free_tech_classes_.html
Might be useful for anyone who is looking to learn (like myself).
no
Wow, a lot more yes answers in here that I expected.
Anyway yeah, it's my job.
I can code stuff.
I spend more time fixing other people's code than I do writing my own, though.
It's something you have to practice but it's also something that's hard to learn on your own. You need to see similar code where people have done a really good job and have people kick your arse over your own shit code.
Oh, and to start learning?
Well PHP is probably the simplest of the standard C-Style languages to work with, assuming you have no problems getting XAMPP running on your computer.
It's got the fewest rules of all of them. It'll let you get ideas together but won't require you to write beautifully.
I'd love to be able to but I just assume that I'll be shit at it cos I didn't start from a young age
quick q for anyone who knows their html history
why did they change <b> to <strong> and <i> to <em>?
Essentially HTML was always supposed to define a document's structure
not the presentation of it.
I can understand this sentence in the abstract
but I'm not seeing how it's an answer to the question.
How do <strong> and <em> define structure as distinct from presentation?
Keep in mind that I "taught" myself html back when 2.0 was still the main game in town and 3.2 was barely out of the box. The tutorial I was using used <i> and <b> along with a bunch of other style tags (<font color="#FF0000">, etc.).
i didn't think they did, strong and em were around before or as long as b and i (I thinkg)
in any case, they're different things.
b is bold
i is italic
em is emphasis
strong is strong emphasis
browsers tended to display strong as bold text and em as italic text but that's where the relationship ends
browsers tended to display strong as bold text and em as italic text
what would strong and emphasis be if not bold and italic though? Like what is strong that it's not bold, or that it is different outside the way that browsers display that tag?
Your second question gets at the point
If someone's using a voice browser rather than a visual one, em and strong actually have meaning; intonate these words differently. b and i have inherently visual meanings.
ah, okay
that makes sense. Ta.
semantic HTML
Semantic HTML is the use of HTML markup to reinforce the semantics, or meaning, of the information in webpages rather than merely to define its presentation (look). Semantic HTML is processed by regular web browsers as well as by many other user agents. CSS is used to suggest its presentation to human users.
As an example, recent HTML standards discourage use of the tag <i> (italic, a typeface)[1] in preference of more specific tags such as <em> (emphasis); the CSS stylesheet should then specify whether emphasis is denoted by an italic font, a bold font, underlining, slower or louder audible speech etc. This is because italics are used for purposes other than emphasis, such as citing a source; for this, HTML 4 provides the tag <cite>.[2] Another use for italics is foreign phrases or loanwords; web designers may use built-in XHTML language attributes[3] or specify their own semantic markup by choosing appropriate names for the class attribute values of HTML elements (e.g. class="loanword"). Marking emphasis, citations and loanwords in different ways makes it easier for web agents such as search engines and other software to ascertain the significance of the text.
this is great, thanks
but what about the footnotes?
if i was trying to pass that off as my own writing i would have removed the footnote references
but, you're welcome
a little
Learnt HTML back in the days of angelfire when all you had was an HTML shell rather than any WYSIWYG tools for web buildinh
Learnt java, C++, vhdl and some other languages at uni. I don't really do that much at the moment but I did a litlte python for a Coursera machine learning course last year ago and did VBA macro developement in my last couple of jobs.
In my opinion anyone can learn but, like most skills, it takes practice if you're going to become really good at it although I do find mathematicians and I guess generally people with a logical/procedural mindset tend to pick up the key concepts much more easily.
I used to be able to make my myspace look well good
♥
geocities ftw
Just coming to the end of a Computer Science undergrad degree
It's been a bit catch-all, so although I understand the general concepts of object-oriented languages, I've not really had to use a particular one for any length of time. Still, I reckon I could learn a new one pretty quickly.
I'm doing a game for my final year project in C#, kinda wish I'd had the gumption to do it in C++, but that seems like an unholy mess of a language.
Anyone in the business, what do you think my employment prospects would be like given I've spent a long time fucking around and am now 29 with no experience in the industry? I'm not bad at PHP either.
There are loads of jobs.
Depends what kind of job you want though, as 'programming' is a very wide field. Do you want to go into game development?
Well, that would be every teenage dream come true
As such I'm not holding out any hopes for it.
Although I do live in a pretty good area for game devs. And most people I've met at Uni studying games courses barely did a lick of programming 'til the third year.
someone posted this the other day
seems apt
http://media.tumblr.com/3e93548b9e2a41df4f0bee357fe227b3/tumblr_inline_mixr9hlOZF1qz4rgp.gif
Where d'you live?
No reason to not try. My one bit of advice is this: find somewhere that does work that aligns with your interests and where people care about the job if you can. If you go somewhere boring/sloppy in the interests of gaining some experience, you'll learn bad habits, it will grind you down and you'll forget why you like the job in the first place. If you really want to program games, go for it.
West Yorkshire
There's a lot of tech companies around here and a fair few games devs I know of (such as Rockstar Leeds). I'll definitely be applying for some when I graduate, although as a green programmer at 30, I realise I might not be quite what they're looking for. I guess there's a certain romance to getting experience at some two-bit start-up but I don't want to be in the situation I've read that some devs find themselves in, having a bunch of unfinished projects on their CV.
Age doesn't matter
We hired someone 6 months ago who's 28 and had been a teacher until that point. I'm sure you'll find something good.
Do you work in game development yourself?
Nah
Web development. Ruby, JavaScript etc. I know a few freelance people who make iOS games, but I'm mostly out of touch with the games industry.
how about you hold off on that until we've finished that dungeons and dragons game?
I was thinking of starting Chapter 3 this very evening actually.
I've had an immensely busy fortnight but I've got a few days off this week. Y'all still up for it?
There's an interesting-looking D&D tabletop simulator, Roll 20 http://roll20.net/ that looks like a hoot with a few friends.
I'm not bothered myself
but I know this grumpy dwarf guy who is just itching to bust some heads
I used to be able to code in Basic and Visual Basic.
I've kinda of lost that now, just HTML and CSS. I can pick apart JS if I need to and I understand C++ syntax etc.
In response to the last paragraph
Personally I find coding is about 90% banging your head against a brick wall, thinking WHY DOESN'T THIS FUCKING WORK IT'S CLEARLY RIGHT I HATE COMPUTERS.
And 10% having that Eureka moment, finally cracking it and feeling really awesome and smart, and it's totally worth the other 90%.
That's what I want!
That eureka moment. It feels like something needs to click in my head and then I can go "ah, yes, that's how it's supposed to work!" and then suddenly I'm a genius coder. Maybe my brain's just not wired correctly for it. My lack of ability to focus certainly doesn't help.
nah,
in_limbo doesn't mean you just get it, and then it's all fine, he means something doesn't work, and you spend 90% of time going a bit mad and it not working, and then BOOM it does work (I have been known to do little fist pumps at work sometimes) - and that's all great - until the next hing that doesn't work, and then you get to go on the merry roundabout again.
There is a massive push for coders these days that it is making me worried that the job market will be very competitive soon.
I have been looking into courses the last while and from what I have seen everyone seems to be jumping into cloud computing and software development. I have been thinking of doing something similar but think it might be best to find something more specific like software for medical purposes. It's just all this buzz is really making me rethink things especially seeing as it is going to be costing me a lot of money.
For me it's not about employability,
it's more the avoidance of being a future dullard. Much in the same way that people who'd previously had no contact with computers whatsoever had to quite quickly get to grips with them once Lotus Notes and then emails became the norm in the business environment, it seems that my kids (however far in the future they may be (hopefully)) will probably learn to code at school, and it's something I'd like to be able to talk to them about knowingly.
And, I'd quite like a go at building something. Just come up with an idea for a program and then see it come to life. I think that'd be pretty satisfying.
Maybe not though and it's all a big hoo-ha about what is essentially quite a specialist skill that will never be understood beyond a fraction of the population. Who knows, eh? *ramble, ramble, ramble...*
If kids are soon to be learning coding at school
it'll be to the same extent that they're learning, say, chemistry: enough to get by in life, or to prep them for further study in the area at tertiary level, but no where near enough to just walk out of school and start building games, etc. Probably not even enough to build basic websites from scratch — at least, not professional ones.
Coding is a specialisation, like other specialisations.
There is?
I mean I can imagine there's a massive push for people with incredibly good coding design skills, people who study the latest tech and know how to apply it.
And I guess there might be a calls for people with fairly limited HTML skills code pages up for people or at least be able to maintain pages on sites that need you to understand that sort of thing (but I wouldn't call that 'coding').
But the rest was all out-sourced, pretty much. Computer games appear very much in-house, but industry realised it was a lot cheaper to use off-shore teams for this sort of thing. Or that's certainly how it seemed. If the jobs are coming back then that's good because there was nothing magic about off-shoring: apart from the genius guys out there the others naturally struggled massively due to barriers of language, difference and even cultural understanding of what you needed to get coded.
fwiw
the company I work for, a mobile software company (read: apps), have just shut down our Kiev office and are moving all development in house in London.
Yes, the development cost is cheaper abroad, but you pay for it in lapses in communication, a lack of urgency from their end to meet deadlines, etc. Better to have it all under one roof and part of the same company culture.
Communication's a big one
In my experience it makes outsourcing a good option for relatively simple/broad tasks, but a poor one where there's significant details/nuances involved - a lot of the nuances can get lost in translation and you can lost a lot of time/money when you get code back that's missed the point of a change in design.