Will be interesting to see what happens to Fopp regarding this. Please, someone save Fopp!
You could argue that the fact it isn't on the Music board is entirely the point.
you argumentative fuck!
It wasn't meant in any kind of malicious way, or even directed at the original poster! But it has become increasingly the case in music shops that the music element is hardly "in your face" as you go in. Even Rise, an ace record shop in Bristol, now has all its music upstairs, and downstairs is a cafe and "vintage clothes" shop. Although they are giving us a free Dutch Uncles gig in the cafe tonight, which is very cool.
Apologies though, this wasn't meant in "that" way at all and I could see how it could have been interpreted as such.
diversifying to survive. Should be applauded.
The guy that wrote that e-mail, deary me.
Compare it to the blog post by Mr Avalanche Edinburgh that was linked to the other day...
That'll teach me for doing it when I get the occasional spare minute at work. I did mean that this was a good thing because they were doing this to survive, but that the fact they need to do so is a sign of the times. Rise is ace.
decent. Last time there wasn't. So depressing, I used to go every Saturday after my weekend shift at WH Smith in Woking and buy a new album or two. Was such an anti piracy nerd back then.
In hindsight, it obviously served me right, trying to forge a career in a dying business, but all these jobs were tremendous fun. Right up until now. My heart goes out to everyone who works in any of the branches.
On the plus side, at least there aren't any rivals for HMV still going so the employees won't be dicking on each others friendships trying to get bookseller places in Waterstones or part time shit in Zavvi, which is what happened to me and my friends.
To anyone, and I noticed a bit of this going on in the other thread, who wants to bemoan the administration prices or closing down sales aren't spectacular enough, you're in good company with this page:
paying no tax and selling you stuff from cheaper territories then it will seem a bit pointless to have a sale at all. I'm not sure there's anything wrong with feeling like the closing down sale isn't worth it and I presume they're never going to drop things below the price they can get back from returning it?
then as time goes on, the 10% will become 20%, the 20% will become 50% and so on until everything is gone. It's really a big laugh for the staff when people go 'hahaha only 20% off Jean de Flourette! no wonder you're going out of business!'
Borders and HMV have different administrators, and mostly different supplies. Our administrators intentions were simply to make as much money within a particular time frame (our last day of trading was Christmas Eve of all things). This meant increasing the discounts every three days : 10%, 20%, 50% etc. By the last day, our offer was 'as many books as you can carry for a pound' and spent the rest of the time up to that point selling the tills, the shelves and the back office furniture.
More or less everything in this time is controlled by the mysterious and equally unpleasant reps from the adminstrators, usually on in each store. They basically take over the store, and the majority of positions become redundant. Your job is to shovel books into customers hands as quickly as possible. The administrator operates as manager, and any Borders protocol is out the window. Needless to say, the adminstrator has no managerial skills to speak of.
During the height of the fire sale, we were receiving shipments of books and other shit like plates and jewellery from backwater suppliers and shitholes who couldn't sell their books for peanuts anywhere else, and chucked them in with the Borders stock.
staff told to inform customers 'we don't know when we're closing. We might still be trading next year'
gift cards are invalid. So cue some guy, despite there being signs abolutely EVERYWHERE informing him of this, going mental because he spent 2 hours finding 100 pounds worth of books.
customers askign you if you have particular plates (which you've literally never seen before) in a different colour.
HarperCollins put an injunction on the company preventing us from including their stock in the firesale. This meant a crack team of staff had to trawl through almost every individual book in the shop during the fire sale scanning it to check the publisher, and removing it from the shelf. Obviously, tons went through the net and when a customer approached to buy them, we had to say 'no you can't buy this' and that was that.
Obviously it's tempting to think 'well we're fucked anyway, what's the harm in accepting gift cards / selling HC books etc?' but the administator also operates at this all-seeing overlord, who has to report all till discrepencies to his head office (obviously our head office no longer existed). I remember him giving me a solid 5 minute drubbing because I sold a Frankie Boyle book which still had a 1 pound off sticker on it.
So basically, there is literally nothing fun, or interesting, or pleasurable about this period of time for the staff (although I did get to play Bright Tomorrow by Fuck Buttons on a Saturday afternoon) so let's not compound their misery by banging on about how crap the sale is. Let's talk about how the shop was. After it's gone.
and it sounds ridiculous working under an administrator, even if it isn't their fault that they are there.
to petty things like 'no I can't increase the discount to 80% because one of the corners is bent' to 'no, Starbucks isn't included in the 75% off sale because it's a seperate business was always.
'then I'm not surprised you're going out of business' or better yet, 'I'm glad you're going out of business'.
she was like a 25 year old young girl. It's just so rude and inconsiderate- also they are talking to a person, soon to be unemployed, not to the company itself so it's out of order.
Have to say though that you describe is not really a standard administration though. Administration (unlike receivership or liquidation) has the aim of trying to keep the business ticking over as a going concern, either to be sold to a competitor or a newco whilst trying to be cash generative/ come to a deal with creditors. It will be interesting to see what exactly happens in the hmv admin. Retail can be especially brutal (i've only worked in the admin of broke football clubs, which is a bit different as you have brand/goodwill to prtect as much as your other assets.)
only shorter, and less chaotic because a) nobody shopped in silverscreen anyway, b) we didn't believe for one second the chain would find a buyer, and c)i don't believe customers even knew we sold gift tokens, let only had purchased any.
Was genuinely dead happy to go to and be at work and took pride in doing as good a job as possible.
Even though I was only there for a year or so, part-time, my enthusiasm meant I was entrusted with carrying out some basic managerial and supervisory roles. I ultimately left cos they weren't prepared to up my wages by a penny even though I was clearly doing more than an entry level work. They obviously saw no value in employing keen and able staff, so I jumped ship for habitat. But even then I almost stayed on doing a minimal hours early morning new release job, out of fondness for working there.
If it weren't the case that retail was gonna get turbulent as feck then I might have considered having a crack at making a career of sorts out of it.
but I gave a career a shot. I guess you can argue in hindight it was foolish, but if you take into account illness and other emotional problems, working in that environment really helped me to come to terms with, and deal with, all that, so I can't regret spending 5 years doing it. I did get a couple of promotions in that time, but really - and trust me on this - the treatment you get from upper management (particularly regional managers) isn't worth the extra pay - you get completely dicked on. The happiest people at all the places I worked were always the stock room team, followed by the sales floor team.
Fair play. Some good times to be had, but the things you mention about upper management are the things that were the most offputting about sticking around.
and it's his birthday today :(
that you need to get rid of some dead wood to move on.
And if that takes the form of some indies, or something more compelling than the current 'physical media supermarket' format springing up in the vacuum, then that's for the better, imo.
Sales figures confirm there's a demand for physical media for a few (many?) years yet.
HMV limping on as a leaner operation, rather than just during up shop completely, would kinda inhibit that progress. Although if they decided to develop the Fopp side of things at the expense of dropping a few big millstone branches then that'd surely be a positive.
I can see the closing of a lot of provincial branches and keeping the profitable ones open, with a move to pop-up Christmas shops.
The amount of people I see spending in Fopp makes me hope they will stay.
Are there lots of them around the country? Are they meant to be semi-permanent stroes, or just for a couple of weeks at a time?
Though I'm sure there was one in Brum too. I'd imagine there were more elsewhere.
As I understand it, like all pop-up stores, they are taken up on short-term lease. The one in Harrow seemed to just be there for the Christmas period.
I was just suggesting it as a business model, and can't really see why harrow would need one!
there was definitely one in Bedford for November/December in 2009 and 2010. i think they missed 2011 but were back for 2012.
that wasn't packed with people buying stuff. The Cambridge one is always busy whenever I've been there.
Between the ages of about 16-21 I was in there every payday.
order all my presents online in november right?
There is also a lot of insurance people are gonna want back. arrrggh :(((((
I get paid a week on Friday, I'd like to pick over the foreign films bit of the Manchester corpse.
'analysts' reckon around half the business will be saved.
basically it doesn't look like this will be a Borders thing.
it's rubbish. it has been for fucking ages
i don't think about music the same way most people here do and i'm not going to apologise for it.
see, even I felt the need to respond this time.
now THAT sounds like victim blaming
but then carried on, well, not asking questions, but making statements that seem to suggest i should reply.
but if that's how you're choosing the evade the question then be my guest.
i thought the first part of your post would address my first question. anyway.
yes, it's still a commodity, but with an indie it was way more likely to be valued based on its merit rather than the £££ worth of it. i would have thought that was fairly obvious. and that because even more true when you buy from the label or then even the artist themselves.
instead of specialising in the latest album by The Needy Bedwetters makes them automatically an object worthy of contempt.
Plenty of indies stock copies of the latest Leona Lewis album because people are going to buy it and they're going to make money from it.
which may or may not be true. as said, i'd still rather buy from the band as well
I buy from all kinds of sources. Last album I bought was a New Order one in HMV, didn't really feel the need to go and look for it on the band's website instead.
two guesses for starters
- the people who work there
- the people in towns who'll now have about 30 or 40 miles to go to their nearest record store
I know it's unlikely, but you know it would be nice right?
announced this morning that it's shutting down at the end of the month.
I'd say closer to 900,000. Good estimate though.
the smaller labels and artists who will no doubt suffer from the loss of not only the biggest specialist music retailer but the only chain left with nationwide coverage.
it looks good and a few more people will walk past their CD, that's about it
aka it's good that it happened but i've seen it a lot and it rarely leads to anything at all
(as I understand it) the benefit was that for a lot of releases HMV would pick up a large number of copies simply because their reach was so encompassing.
wonder how it compares to amazon/play
is that they've picked up a release, have done nothing and will only sell the mp3 download for £7 a pop. so yeah, that's bollocks as well
this thread is as much about people being able to pick stuff up on the cheap than about the people who work in their stores. hmw as an entity (and that is the angle that i approach this from) means NOTHING to british music. maybe if they go then people will actually go and explore an indie store.
you asked, derisively, who cares that HMV are struggling, i offered you two groups of people who did.
re the indie store point, you're either being 1) deliberately thick, 2) deliberately obtuse, or 3) brightonb. say i live somewhere like, i dunno, shrewsbury, not unfeasible that there are no independent record stores in that town. entirely feasible the nearest are in birmingham. 48 miles away. suddenly, "go and explore an indie store" looks like a pretty stupid statement
you read everything i write with snide undertones, i don't understand it. "who cares?" is an expression. clearly i mean it's me that doesn't care. the way music is a part of my life is not affected by HMV. whether or not there's an HMV in shrewsbury doesn't mean anything. i still think you should be buying your music from indie stores or even from labels direcetly
next time someone points out a fatal flaw in my argument, i'm just going to accuse them of nitpicking and flounce off
but, yeah, i was talking about people across the piste rather than you just talking about you. i can see it makes no difference to you, and i'm glad that you have found yourself a position that you are happy with being you in
but for the wider world, there ARE bad things about HMV going into administration. was just pointing them out as it seemed like you didn't know. still does.
yes, it's bad that people will lose jobs. i agree. well done.
think that counts as common decency, really.
so there you go
yeah I'm sure my parents will go to their nearest indie store and brows wherever the fuck that is.
I think the other thread was for the twats moaning about the sale with a few good riddance yucks. You'd be better off there, mate.
why shouldn't your parents go to an indie store?
i was never moaning until i got called out. HMW isn;t important. that's all.
I'm pretty sure she isn't going to catch a bus to Marlborough (genuinely I think this is my nearest indie store now) from Winchester to see if they have a new record out.
and if that's what your mum likes that's fine (my mother is a HUGE rod stewart fan as well). without HMV our mum's will be able to get the new rod stewart release at asda or the petrol station or wh smith or a million other places that don't really have anything to do with music
You'd be surprised by the number of people who don't have the faintest idea what their favourite artists are doing.
I guess choosing my mum was a bad example, but when I worked in MVC, there were a lot of customers, and I mean a lot, that would wander in and ask if various people had a new album out, or what the most recent album by a particular person was. Or they wanted to look through the back catalogues of various people they liked to see if there were any of the old albums they had on LP, or on cassette, and could finally get the CD. These are the people who are fucked, now
you telling me these people can't even go online to work out whether or not someone has a new record out? there's no way. i mean, fair enough about MVC, but that was years ago.
and it's like books. I'm an avid reader, I love books, and I love particular author. But quite often I only notice if someone, even someone I really like, has published a new book if I pop into Waterstones. Music, for some people, is no different.
and also rip me almost constantly for how much i DO use it. they're still capable of logging on once in a while and doing a bit of research to find out what new stuff there is in the world that interests them
You're right though, he can just go fuck himself I guess.
and has no real interest in learning how to use one. He shouldn't really have to.
like, i agree, essentially, but the world moves on technologically. that's not my fault, that's just the way it is. i'd actually like to be able to buy albums on tape occasionally and i would LOVE to have a ready supply of polaroid film. but it's not going to happen
which is where a reasonable chunk of HMV's customers with mainstream interests and a desire for a physcial purchase will end up.
The suggestion HMV's closure is going to mean loads of people heading to indie stores instead is a bit overplayed I reckon and misjudges (and also judges in a bit of a sneering way) what probably makes up a fair amount of HMV's customer base.
but yeah, don't see what rod stewart fans have got to do with music
as i've said, i am talking about my own mother here, so don't get upset, but the actions of my mum do not influence the ever changing and increasingly more interesting nature of british music. she can pick up his CDs as the supermarket and she will be fine.
well i haven't, not really interested in this thread, but i'm on your side. Yeah bad for people who are losing their jobs - but BAD overall, not really. It' an outdated business model and it's stores are crap. Tough shit.
so it's all good :)
than buy music from HMV
just buy from online - are you talking amazon/play? if so then i can add "endorses tax-dodging" to your list of Tory characteristics
and no, when i say buy online i mean buy from indie stores/labels or even bands direct online. it happens a lot you know
oh, i know. i've done it myself from time to time. not that i think closing HMV down will make any difference to that level of purchasing, even stores like Norman are reliant on word of mouth and the cross-over in habits that make people purchase from HMV and indie stores doesn't suggest it'll overly affect their profit margin much.
all it'll mean is that stranded teenage boy in Shrewsbury doesn't have a local store to go browse CDs in and maybe he doesn't get in to music so much, maybe he just sticks to the recommended stuff from the likes of amazon and play, and never really expands his taste. quite sad, really.
i grew up in a small village where there was no music. no gigs, no record stores. you go and find stuff. everyone can do it. i don't know why you're so down on the ability of people to go and find the things they need to make their life what they want it to be. and what are you talking about "stranded in shrewsbury"??
It's not 1994 brusma, you don't have to use the instore headphones anymore.
But I have broken free of its shackles. The HMV there was awful. There's much talk on here about people meandering around 'discovering records', but, with Shrewsbury HMV, it was actually about trying to find a record you wanted. HMV has always baffled me. There was no coherent structure or enthusiasm. It certainly wasn't fun shopping there.
Shrewsbury is the type of smalltown that could support a small record store, but it doesn't really have one. So in that respect HMV will be missed.
disagreeing with that particular statement. but it is classic brightonb material
if he wants to have a dig because i don't value HMV as an entity then so be it
i've been jumped on and tried to explain the thought process behind why i don't care about HMV. people have got personal in places, that's fine, people seem to like it that way. i just don't think my view on music and the way it retailed, distributed etc etc is all that weird. but others do apparently
Simon Fox or Trevor Moore?
I know it's easy to say in hindsight, but it always seemed complete madness to me that they Never invested in Online properly, especially given the HMV identity.
Similarly, the fact that they were running two stores in cities such as Nottingham always seemed mad...
That was the first JJ72 album on pre-order (stop that sniggering in the back).
It arrived maybe a week after it had showed up in the shops, at a time when orders from the likes of Play.com actually might arrive the Saturday before if you were lucky.
I only ordered because they had the best price but it put me off bothering with them again.
I'd guess this is an example of their bad online situation.
We know that Play was ultimately shut down by tax changes and other aspects.
in the case of bands selling millions of units because they are deemed essential. which is almost never the case. it's a whole different thing i suppose but it's still what i believe. music should be more locally focused. there are SO many good bands in the north west alone and there are new ones popping up all the time. if good bands got more money for each record they sold by mail order or at a gig or whatever then i could live with not being able to get the new pinback or deerhoof record just because it couldn't be distributed worldwide
- A bunch of staff walked out/were pushed out earlier this year because the new boss implemented a no tattoos and no piercings rule. In a music shop. LOL
- One guy in particular ended up in a row and eventually quit because his manager was saying his jeans weren't black enough (or blue enough, can't remember). They came up with this weird new uniform of bright pink shirts and jeans, everyone's jeans had to be the same colour.
- None of the staff were allowed to do anything between 11am and 7pm apart from stand there waiting to "help" customers. So no new stock ever got put out and nothing was ever tidied or rearranged. All they could do was stand around and when people asked them where some item of stock was, they'd say "it's in a box in the back".
The new CEO was brought in from Jessops. Amazing.
none of this surprises me.
84joe, i just had a weird flash back looking at your name but i don't know if i'm right, did you used to play in a band in leeds?
But I went to university there, so I probably mentioned the place a fair bit on here back then (2002-5).
around that whole obscene baby auction crowd. it seems like a long time ago so i don't know how accurate i'm being
Went to lots of their shows during that time. That Fucking Tank are one of my favourite memories of being at uni actually.
This Aint Vegas, The Wow and Kill Yourself at the Boys Head in Peterborough. All fantastic.
i was listening to the black lunged captain on the way home from work yesterday actually.
which made it all the more amazing.
Watch some locals get excited about meet, go into next room, see The Wow climbing up shelves. Real good.
doog is a bit of a hero of mine. seeing him in spy and then future adventures. when my band started getting billed with the wow every now and then i was always in awe. totally weird fan boy stuff. he offered his hand the first time we met and said "hi i'm doog" and i could only mutter "i....know....who.....you....are"
All I really remember was an odious shitty Greek guy from Rotherham who always wanted to argue that Greece were the best football team...in the world because they won the Euros and that Eric Prydz's 'Call On Me' was the best song of all time because it was No 1. It would have been funny if he was just a wind-up merchant, but he passionately believed all this.
The only other thing that sticks in my memory is the guy who used to make up band names and give each one it's own section in the CD racks.
I'd do it. in the classical section we had:
Some manager came in when I worked in Safeway (now RIP also) and decided to implement silly rules, messed up the order everyone did everything behind the scenes. No reductions done, stock in chillers still staying there despite being out of date etc etc. The problem is they can't give in as they will have to admit defeat. They can't not do anything as it means they are pointless and have no job. They always seem to have a massive hard-on for making people look smart, even if it means sending home half the staff. Teachers in schools love this also.
picking the next retailer for the former CEO of HMV to close down. Starbucks anybody?
Dan Le Sac's blog post(1) a wee while ago was pretty on the money. Happy to have got our JUST in time (they'll owe me some holiday pay, but so be it), really feel for all the friends I've made there over the years who are surely wondering how they pay March's rent.
Shopfloor staff hampered by a bizarre one-size-fits-all customer-first approach that doesn't carry from a different business altogether, let alone to a massive range of shops all with local expertise and widely differing customer bases. Everything became target-driven and incentive-driven. EVERYTHING. The grand money making schemes included popcorn. Never seen a more demoralised bunch of people struggling to juggle the workload that backed-up at the bookends of each working day, totally unsupported by management over the busiest and most crucial period of the year by blindly bleating that "we'll fix it" rather than restructure shifts, move resources from other areas. Crazy. hear no evil, see no evil, speak the company line.
Joined Fopp in 2006, left HMV in 2013. Sad it's come to this, but I genuinely feel there will be some room left on the High Street for them. Maybe not quite how GAME managed to open half (?) their stores, but maybe a flagship and 10 or so.
So long, Nipper.
about the target and incentive driven stuff, i worked at Game (left before they went tits up) this had very much become the case there, might as well have been working at dixons tbh. horrible.
First vinyl I saw in my room was Wishbone Ash though. That'll do.
LOOK AT ALL THAT VINYLS
And you can bet which shopping experience I preferred - HMV. They had a guy on the jazz section who was really helpful and another girl who spent ages helping me look for films and was clearly a really big cinephile. Then I went to Sister Ray where the place looks like a half empty sex dungeon and the guy behind the counter didn't so much as grunt a greeting at me.
Proves that you can do a chain store correctly if you hire people who give a shit and allow them to express themselves a little. I'll always prefer places like Sounds of the Universe, RISE, Resident etc (and Rough Trade if they hadn't got so damned expensive) but HMV will be missed, even if it evolved into some horrific mutant towards the end. I hope they save Fopp, that was a great place with good staff as well.
Basically turned into a pointless shitheap when it became Sister Ray :(
When it was Selectadisc it was awesome. It's garbage now
I like shopping in Rough Trade because it's a NICE PLACE in general, and the staff are fairly knowledgeable and friendly, despite how expensive it is. Can't say the same for Sister Ray.
SOTUS is the best record shop in London now I think. Shame it doesn't carry much variety in the grand scale of things.
They've started stocking new stuff as well as secondhand. That's a good sign.
No more salary for 6 months :(
I think I've bought maybe three things since then.
It's weird. I'm sad about Avalanche here mostly-closing down, but the only things I've bought in there since I moved up here nearly eighteen months ago have been a couple of presents. So, uhhhh.
April 2011. nearly two years ago now. wowwwww.
who was incredibly knowledgeable on gypsy/balkan music. He was so enthusiastic and would drag me around the shelves excitedly telling me about numerous bands I'd never heard of. It's probably one of the very few times I've had that kind of experience in a record shop.
Did I get her number? Did I fuck. :(
So I am sad to see it go. But equally, I can't quite fathom why anyone would be so hostile towards it for being an erstwhile market leader. If you found the service unsatisfactory, luckily alternatives have remained so you don't have to subject yourself to it. Nor is HMV largely responsible for marginalising independent record stores; the change in popular media format (CD to mp3) surely had more impact. When HMV goes nobody expects independents to flourish again, as I suspect the majority of their customers search out these stores, and aren't just browsing or "passing through". What's more, were one smaller store to start doing well, they wouldn't pass up on the opportunity to expand their chain, pushing out competitors and fixing prices as they did so.
so I've real sympathy for pretty much all of HMV's non-board staff. As appears to be well demonstrated in this thread, so many of the people who dive into stock clearance sales behave like utter cunts. Luckily I was a student working part time when MVC went and had a pretty devil-may-care store manager who was kept on until the bitter end, so was able to dish out retaliatory abuse without any consequence.
or just keep it somewhere.
always had what i wanted. real shame.
Not even the weird underground Sports Direct
you just need to go at the right time.
and it's always empty. it pays to like old man music.
as someone who (for the time being at least) works in the downstairs bit, playing the old man music, that's nice to hear.
if so you should be able to get the money back from your credit card company.
you might be in luck.
Which if it was real, would have been a PR disaster. But was it real or just a windup? I remember just as many people getting upset by McDonalds deciding not to serve under-18s.
We were instructed to go and buy blue jeans, girls and gents with long hair instructed to tie them back, and given black undershirts to cover arm tattoos.
Staff kicked off internally (there's a staff-only forum) about the reasons behind long hair, asking if it's appearance-related, or health and safety. Answer came back H&S, immediately contradicted when we were all given lanyards to wear, which get caught in tills, trays, everywhere.
"tech savvy" and "games guru" badges for whomever worked on those sections. I got a right bollocking for adding a one direction one to mine. dicks.
I was lucky enough to be in a really laid back branch, they didn't really care what we did.
I ordered some stuff online the other day and only half my order's been dispatched (more fool me - expected this at the end of the month, not now). Fortunately not a huge loss either way, but irritating if the administrators decide not to fulfill orders.
Gotta feel for the staff and Nipper.
1) Couldn't give a fuck about HMV closing, it's not as if I went there anyway and I can still get music elsewhere
2) I never really went there anyway
3) The job losses are bad but that's it
4) Lest we forget HMV were the big bad enemy at one point because they pushed small record shops under. Yeah?
Bullet points FTW.
Would have annoyed me.
but if HMV goes under what about FILMS?!?!
it'll be WH Smiths (overpriced+shit choice) or supermarkets (shit choice) only for physical sales
You're on it now. It's pretty swish.
what if I'm in town and get the urge to watch Robocop... I could buy it and watch it that evening with my tea and own it for years to come on beaufitul plastic encased foil but now I'll have to wait or subscribe to something but I don't want to subscribe to something because then I'll feel obliged to watch more that I don't really want to because all I wanted to do was watch Robocop and buy it on my lunchbreak possibly one day in the future and now i might not be able to do that unless someone buys hmv in which case i might be able to unless the new owners make the stock selection more lamestream and restricted than it already is in which case they might not have Robocop on the shelves when i pop in and then id have to look elsewhere but by the time the postie posts it through my letterbox i might have lost all passion for Robocop and be wanting to watch something else and i won't be able to buy it cos there'll be no shops to buy dvds in the highstreet anymore and it'll all be a terrible shame and there will be no place for men with lip rings and ponytails to work anymore either
or maybe even some independent places might be able to survive if everyone didn't just download everything!
at least Deloitte will trouser a load of cash from it all!
It was all shit. Shut Up And Play The Hits was still £20!
i was about to click off thinking it was just the old video and just got distracted long enough to realise what this is. i didn't know. i was ignorant. why did you do this?
(I have also been spaffing nonsense from my sick bed about it on http://twitter.com/seaninsound today)
Piss poor management, an apathetic cuntish buying public, and all the employees (new and old) knew its days were numbered since I started working there (2004!). Horrible place to buy things and won't be missed.
that was easily the hardest day i've had as an HMV employee.
special mention to the woman who spat on the floor and told me she was glad i was losing my job when i informed her that i was unable to refund her duplicated £7 il Divo christmas album that was purchased in November. seven little pounds....not a massive value for a person to place on character. but it seems, that was her limit.
i also now know what it must feel like when a pedophile has their address leaked, having had the full force of an angry mob's anger and frustration shat all over me in one go at 9 this morning, when everyone suddenly became an expert in retail law after GMTV or something told them that they were completely entitled to redeem their gift cards
but lots of very nice and understanding people when being informed of what is clearly a massively fucked up situation in regards to their gift cards, returns, etc etc.
but yeah. not too much to add. some nice bits, but a lot of shit. mostly shit. even shitter since Trev, 'i'd have to say my favourite ever record is the Guns and Roses greatest hits album' Moore got his jessopy claws into things and decided that toffee popcorn was the shining light on a murky horizon.
not too sad if it's all over. i'd just like the wages i'm owed please. cheers.
the lads at the top should also get a special mention for being so completely and utterly shit for all of us today.
little to no information about anything at all, aside from 'no gift cards' in a sparse memo at the start of the day.
we were so bereft of advice and support, i started using the guardian's 'what to do with your HMV gift card' article on the ipads to try and give customers some helpful information.
apparently a 'script' had been devised at around 3.30, just as i was leaving....but my colleague said it was so crap, my manager basically rubbished it as soon as it came through and was all....'yeah....that's ridiculous, we're not saying that'. so that doesn't inspire much confidence.
just read that Trev gave an impassioned defence of the company and said he would want to be the one to keep it going if the opportunity were there. good luck son. i certainly wouldn't want to work under his leadership if things did settle out in some form or another.
or maybe he'll just move and seek a position with a new company.
'hi Trevor, thanks for coming in today'
'sure, no worries'
'ok, so, let's just get stuck in. in terms of recent work, let's start with jessops'
'Yup...i'd just like to say that i wasn't actually there at the end, so....'
'sure, sure. ok...erm...i wasn't'
'yeah, i'm just saying. at the end. when it shut down. i was long gone by that point, so.'
ok, sure, sure. ok, let's move on to your next post, at, let's have a look *lifts up paper*...oh, ok....HMV'
'so....that. that didn't really...'
'ok, that definitely wasn't my fault
Sorry to hear about your day, I totally feel your pain. I also understand the lack of information, they just sprang it on everyone.
don't know if you read my Borders administration story above. I can entirely empathise with the situation you're in. I'm sure the HMV situation is different in many ways to the Borders / Silverscreen MVC ones I went through. One piece of advice I can give is, is (unless, unlike me, you're not easily riled at times like this) is avoid reading stuff like this thread about everyone chiming in with their 2 cents on how much they hate your place of work and the work you do. At least until it's over.
the last thing i can be bothered with right now is an extended debate about the merits, or lack thereof, of HMV as a shopping experience in the last however many years.
not even because i'm so boo hoo about my job or whatever, it's just the entire thing feels like one giant 'comment is free' scroll saga, with every chap and their dog giving an opinion on that time they did into an HMV stores to buy something or cheaper on Amazon it instead because remember vinyling up tapes on saturdays as a kid, etc etc.
there are basically two or three stock opinions a million times over, with the details slightly altered to fit the individual experience.
so, just, yeah. i can't even be bothered to go into what i think.
the two separate people that came in today genuinely asking if we had any jobs going, completely free from irony or sarcasm or malicious intent.
they really just thought today was the day to see if we had any work knocking about.
i kept one of their CVs as a memento of extreme human determination in the face of impossible odds.
'if all those in the company are facing redundancy, and you still have the confidence to stroll through the doors and sincerely offer up your skills at the end of days...you'll be a man, my son'
exactly the same thing happened to me. Although for you, what kind of idiot thinks that AFTER christmas is when the shop is likely to be chock full of vacancies, even at the best of times.
Someone brought in a CV on the last day in Borders, despite the fact we'd closed the upstairs 10 days earlier, and had sold half the bookcases from the ground floor and were flogging books from 3 tables at the front of the shop like a car boot sale. 'MAN... I GOTTA WORK HERE... CAN I GIVE YOU MY CV???'
i also now know what it must feel like when a pedophile has their address leaked,
come on now
I will be genuinely sad if my local one closes down. I don't even associate it with music, the cd section has dwindled so far and theyve never really tried to do vinyl properly, but dvd/blu ray(with play gone too where will I get steelbooks), and to some extent books I still buy there all the time.
I know you can get everything online but nothing beats the browsing impulse purchase. If HMV goes the only shop in my town of any interest to me will be waterstones (surely next to go), and the guitar shop which are alot less browseable (guess due to my less frequent purchases of their stuff), so having a record/film shop is a pretty essential part of going into town as a leisure activity which for me is every weekend day and annual leave day almost without fail.
I'm sure online places will benefit from this but I wonder if overall the market will fall just because all of the free browsing high street stores allowed and the demand that would drum up will decline.
Rotate a relatively wide selection of good quality music at an array of price points (including sub £5, something HMV was shit at), and hold a high quality back catalogue in a small floor space.
Music shops need to stop competing on the major chart stuff that people know they can buy cheaper in the supermarkets.
The rough trade bloke and some other guy were interviewed on Radio 4 today and they just kept going on about how it was to do with 'rent' and 'inefficient use of floor space'. It sounded a bunch of arse to me.
But then I know nothing...
the main thing they have is getting me to pick up things I didn't know I wanted, bands I new the name of but not much else etc, because of their pricing. If it goes you lose that browsing element that the internet lacks.
Was an impulse Fopp purchase for me after they played about half of it in their Edinburgh store. Love that album.
It turned out to be Gulag Orkestar by Beirut, and I bought it right there and then. And subsequently never once listened to it.
Now all you berks can go buy Taylor Swift CDs at Tesco, where they belong.
I can deal with it.
I bought a tonne of dvds and the girl behind the counter actually had a conversation with me about what I was buying. She told me that she loved Stop Making Sense and I told her I loved her and it was the most beautiful moment of my life
got a couple of DVDs and that. The sight of mountains upon mountains of toffee popcorn for sale at 75p per enormous bag was a poignant one.
are mourning the probable loss of HMV & Fopp from the high streets, and by the sounds of it with that, so far as the former goes at least, some sort of halcyonic part of your childhood and interest in music, and who greatly sympathise with those who face losing their jobs, will be going into a local store and parting with a chunk of thier wages, or sticking in a decent online order once they start fulfilling online orders again?
I have to be honest, i'll be a bit sad to see HMV go, not least because independent record shops like Picadilly Records are expensive and have awful staff, but the likelihood of me actually putting my hand in my pocket and giving HMV £50 or £100 is virtually nil. At a push, i'll go to Fopp and buy a few £3 albums or DVDs, but that's solely because the price is too low to ignore.
I suspect most people will be in this "really sad, innit, but not my problem" camp.
Not sure where you're coming from here. Piccadilly Records might not always be cheap but I've never found the staff to be 'awful'. In my experience, they've always been friendly, helpful and informative. The complete opposite of the arsey sneering, record store stereotype.
People have wonderful memories of them as a youngster, they are a high street staple, but noone uses them any more as there are much better alternatives. They should have moved with the times but didn't.
Did the iPods and reams and reams of docks sell? There was a good percentage of the floor space in the one in Aberdeen taken up the hunners of docks and stuff...
Which we often didn't.
and wouldn't be able to honour them.
I had to deal with someone I'd sold a gift card to the previous day, in Borders. That was a lot of fun.
in a way. If it became common knowledge that HMV weren't selling gift cards, it would be known they were in trouble, and then that could cause problems in itself. They seem to be of the thinking this administration is just a minor blip and they will be able to honour the gift cards when they are back up and running. Staying positive and all that.
"So we’re obviously in the middle of a huge shift in consumerism…interesting to hear the variety of pundits commenting on HMV’s demise, however there is a point that no one has made, which I feel is worth making, particularly as I am the type of person who doesn’t need HMV to buy music I’m interested in, as generally they’re not stocking the type of music I buy (that said, I have to say I’m part of the crowd of folks (if it does actually exist) that doesn’t buy much music anymore as I simply don’t have the money to afford it….
Anyway, my point is this: HMV - whatever you think of their business model, whatever you think of them taking over Fopp a few years ago, whatever you think of their customer base - were actually (to my knowledge, working at one time with them as a shop we supplied) the only music shop in the UK who would take physical items and pay for them. By this I mean, in comparison to ‘sale or return’ deals, which involve no money whatsoever unless sales were actual over a period of up to twelve/eighteen months….sounds ridiculous, and maybe HMV don’t stock tiny releases, but believe me, to get small independent shops to stock small independent releases, you have to (and this is through actual distribution companies mind), allow them to take stock essentially for free, which they can return for a refund over a year after it was ordered….if the shop doesn’t actually make an investment in the release, then what gives the shop an incentive to sell the release? Cds/ vinyl can sit in racks and no one knows or cares what the release is. That said times are incredibly hard for independent record shops.
Now…bands who get to the point of being borderline popular/not quite on a ‘real’ record deal, have a chance of making a real impact through HMV stocking and paying for their stock(example being the Leisure Society – not a band I like at all musically, but they wouldn’t have stood a chance in making a name for themselves without HMV making a big investment in stocking their release throughout the UK immediately). Sure they returned stock like any other record store if they don’t sell it, but one thing is that they take is back as credit (obviously ‘cause they were at one time big enough for the sales/lack of sales to not affect them), but AFTER they’ve paid for particular quantities of stock…
In short, all I’m trying to say is, I’m not much of a HMV music fan – I only buy DVD’s from them really – but their existance is not to be sniffed at by independent music fans who think the indie shop has had a tough time and will benefit from this…they won’t, they stock different stuff and appeal to a different type of record shopper – just don’t assume that independent shops in your local area are actually supporting independent music, as most of the time they’re stocking bands you know and like on sale or return basis. (And in addition to this, I have to say I understand why this is the case, I’m not knocking indie shops for this – hell I worked in them for about fifteen years of my life!!!! – I’m just saying that anyone thinking ‘good riddance HMV!’ should know what their position was in financial support of things that other shops couldn’t do.) It’s not a good thing for the UK music fan generally.
truth is, i linked it because it's written by a friend and it is an opposing opinion to mine. i'm not completely inflexible you know!
I read it, but found it too rambling to understand.
would actually buy their CDs but other places (including indies) would take tham on sale or return. that is that they don't pay anything for them and they split the money on what they sell and return anything that is unsold. it's sort of a nice model for small artists BUT if a shop has no risk through this sort of agreement then it doesn't even matter to them if they leave them all on a shelf in the back for 6 months and then give them all back. where, as hmv has already paid for them, they were more likely to actually promote the release with posters/good positioning etc etc
i just think it's an interesting point
Thanks c_r bd
is that the Belfast HMV were always pretty good with stocking releases by local bands, getting them to do instores and stuff. Which was good.
have been told not to open.
and I suppose all the way through when he mentions music you could substitute dvds in as well, I mainly use HMV for dvds and it definitely suffered from the same problem as the music
Besides, even if he uses the argument that he's paid 40 euros towards the games - which appears shaky - he owes another six or seven on top of it.
I'll just walk out of Tesco without paying next time I visit and tell anyone who asks that I promise I'll send them a cheque in the post.
And the argument he's already paid 40 Euros towards the games isn't shaky in the slightest. It's a fact that he paid 40 Euros to HMV in exchange for a future purchase of their products and they've now told him that 40 Euros is invalid and he's going to lose it. I'm completely on his side (save for the fact he should have dumped the seven euros on the counter there and then)
It'd be interesting to know how much money HMV have made from yet-to-be-used gift cards. It must be millions!
is there some loophole that says it's the card that you've bought not a prepayment on a game/movie/album therefore they don't owe you anything because you've got the card that you paid for?
Hence anyone with a gift card is an unsecured creditor.
behind banks, shareholders etc?
They are at the back of the queue
But, especially as it's just after Christmas, they must have made a fortune in gift cards which are now unlikely to ever be used. I'd like to know how much.
He nicked them. He still has the gift voucher and he owes them £6 as the total came to more than his gift card. It is an interesting one though, what if you gave the voucher and walked out, could the police do you for shoplifting? Or would it become some weird civil matter?
you might as well have handed over a packet of Kleenex
the administrators have sent down their own security guard to the store to make sure this doesn't happen. (and to keep an eye on the staff, i should think)
a women today asked me what would happen if she just left her gift card on the counter and walked off with her goods. i told her she was more than welcome to and i wouldn't stop her, but she might have a job getting past the chap on the door and i'd still be obliged to report it to my loss prevention officer as a theft.
Not much in the way of decent music cheaper but I got a Hitchcock box set, best of John Cooper Clarke, Radio Soulwax and the new Crystal Castles for less than £25. Prob going to do Market St tomorrow
are offering 50% off to anyone with an HMV gift card
are having a sit-in over unpaid wages
but surely they won't receive holiday pay until they've been made redundant? And wouldn't Christmas overtime be paid at the end of this month?
Do I still have a few more days to go by Point Break?
would've probably paid the full price if they asked me to
The liquidator gets their cut first (because they are the last people who will be owed money obs ??)
I have seen a liquidation where a company being wound up had a big accountancy firm appoint a liquidator who acted like a contractor and whose fees (minus the bit that the accountancy firm got for his hire and use of their equipment) swallowed up every single bit of the liquidaed companies assets which were sold off.
Even though some of the liquidated assets that the company owned were stock which our company had delivered and had not yet had payment for (same for similar companies that we knew and interact with) even though basically items were sitting in their ware house which were ours (cos they hadnt been paid for) did we get them back? no they go to the liquidator, our company and other similar companies which we knew and were similar were also on the brink.......the liquidators were NOT on the brink......i guess it would actually suit them if all these other firms went bust.
I have a bit of a gripe against the big accountancy firms
the restructuring firm that owns HMV Canada.
Pretty sad state of affairs. Either all the good stuff wasn't being replaced (no Homeland, Wire, breaking bad, batman films, mad men, Wii games made by Nintendo...) after selling out or they're deliberately filling it with cheap crap.
There were pretty much only box sets of Big bang theory, Killing, Rocky, Bond and True blood. And 100s of each. Didn't see one film from 2012 anywhere on DVD and the CDs were so badly organised I gave up looking.
Bought a few bits in case they don't turn it around and guess until they're sorted, restocking isn't a priority. But was sad to see.
Worryingly, Fopp had much of the same filler and hardly any staff on hand to help.