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if so, why?
because i don't care.
Think the pressure on people to wear one devalues the point of the the thing though.
but then thought no, maybe it doesn't. it's irritating that people feel the need to bark about it, but the cause and the meaning outweighs all of that, i reckon.
Its media ubiquity does devalue the voluntary aspect of it, but then again it's too big a thing to get all that pissy about.
I haven't bought one in about 8 years.
my skin complexion doesn't suit red + I'm not very good with pin & would like to know if the red was blood or poppy... to many ground for concern for me to seriously wear one. Would still buy one though
It looks great on grey. Especially a dark steeley grey.
bother to buy one? unlikely
like an agreement you have to sign when you buy one. and also an agreement that has to be signed by anyone who sees me wear mine so that they know why I'm wearing it and don't think I'm wearing it for reasons that they assume i'm wearing it, which aren't actually reasons for my wearing of it.
It's like news readers and public figures compete to get them on as early as possible...
Two and a half weeks before the 11th is over the top, even for me.
Some guy came round our office. I bought one. I've already lost my pin
to give me the right to choose whether to or not
We fought the war against fascism and dictatorship and for democracy and freedom.
NO CUNT GONNA TELL ME WHAT CUNT THING TO CUNT WEAR LIKE A CUNT.
he probably fought in the war because he had no choice
WHERE'S YOUR ARGUMENT NOW MOKER?
Fascist British government.
That's it, I'm never wearing a poppy again. I'll create a blue poppy to mean "never again".
and thought this thread was going to be much more interesting
But I have refused to take one off.
Claimed I shouldn;t be wearing a *political symbol* - I just flatly refused. I think he tried to escalate it, but obviously got no where.
i don't always remember to wear it, but regardless of what I think of the recent / current conflicts, i wear out of respect for what my grandads helped achieve.
About remembering the often futile and horrific nature of war as well as those who died in the cause of democracy and freedom wherever they were that we might avoid those types of conflict again.
I extremely dislike the recent trend however towards what feels almost like a justification of the current conflicts we find ourselves in and that we should back *our brave boys* regardless of what it is they're doing without critique. I have several friends in various (well, 2) services but I feel like the pressure to wear one kind of undermines the point.
There's also the confusing factor of my parents being Irish. I have no problem with it as Irish men died in WW1 fighting for Irish freedom, but my mum's from Cork, which was sacked at the hands of the Black and Tans. The few members of her side of the family (not that I really know them well, my mum had a tough upbringing and doesn't talk about or go to Cork much) are virulently opposed to it - when I proposed my counter argument above my great uncle Paddy told me if he ever saw me wearing one he would spit in my face.
The poppy has kind of become a catch-all support of the British military to some people, and I'm uneasy with that.
we had this thread a couple of years ago, charliepanayi and others made some v good points I can't be bothered to go over:
you'd have to be quite stupid to think other people doing so was stupid.
I think what it's come to represent is pretty stupid. Probably should've made that clearer.
but it occurred to me that we could just answer every thread with a link to an old thread.
Might do that from now on.
(I know, I know, it's in The Guardian...)
The point is making is a solid one, but a) he's pointed out he's still going to wear one and b) how do the belief's of others in regards to what a poppy means to them make any difference to why you personally wear one?
This is almost hand-wringing, it's just well written. And i take umbrage with "it's stupid".
if you are wearing a visual symbol with an evolved cultural meaning, it is unlikely you'd be that comfortable knowing that in your head you were displaying it for it's original meaning despite the way it was being interpreted by those around you.
is that some kind of poll i haven't seen? It's why I reference the hand-wringing - i think critics think that a poppy is about SUPPORTING OUR TROOPS, but it's called rememberance day still. And it's about a specific war. So...
Fairly blurred here, for example
Help for Heroes are asking all our supporters to show their support for the Armed Forces and their families at this time of year by wearing the poppy. We are doing our bit by sharing half of all the proceeds from the three major events during the Remembrance period of October 22nd to 11th November. The proceeds raised through sales of ?Hero? sung by the contestants of X Factor, the money raised at the world Royal Premier of Quantum of Solace and the bucket collection at the Millennium Stadium, Cardiff on 8th November, will all help support the Poppy appeal as well as Help for Heroes. We are delighted to be able to help with the Poppy Appeal and lets hope that this is a bumper year!
Stuart Gendall of The Royal British Legion says:
?The Royal British Legion has joined forces with Help for Heroes at number of events in Remembrancetide this year.
The Legion has successfully championed and supported the Armed Forces community - past and present - for nearly a century; while from a standing start less than a year ago, Help for Heroes has done an incredible amount to raise awareness and mobilise support for the wounded from Iraq and Afghanistan. It is only natural that the two organisations should come together at these major events to highlight the sacrifice, the need, and the help available to the Armed Forces community. The Legion will continue to raise funds for the Poppy Appeal at many other major events, gathering support for its many essential ?welfare projects in support of the Armed Forces family.?
Remember the fallen - care for the living
This isn't some kind of argument to win for me - i've already said i'm heavily conflicted in this thread.
Your point, though, is a good. One. I don't know. I want to stand by rememberance as it was meant - the original poppy is blood red for a reason - but i don't want to fund all war blindly. It leaves me fucked, basically :(
I also love the 'never again' phrase, on a side note.
and yes. that should be the slogan for the whole bloody thing really shouldn't it.
Pretty blurred here, for example
what does the poppy mean?
and as for b), his views are pretty much why I choose not to as well. I just don't feel it means much any more, and as MrBones says downthread, it's become more of a publicity act than anything else.
I greatly respect and admire those who gave their lives for this country, which is why I observe Remembrance Day, and have helped to raise money for it in the past. I just don't think wearing a paper flower really does much other than reinforce nationalistic nonsense.
I've answered the 'stupid' thing above... I didn't mean it with regards to people. It's the concept I find stupid, though I can understand why it's done.
Tried to word this pretty carefully, but I'm gonna bow out at this juncture- I'm never at my best in these sort of dicussions.
People who say they "just don't care etc" are almost as baffling.
Which seems like nebulous support for the armed services, which in itself has been diluted by the horrific 'HEROES' rhetoric you get every ten seconds ... I know plenty of people in the army, they are not heroes.
If the original, memorial sense had endured, I wouldn't have a problem with wearing one.
If you like Nazi Iran so much, why don't you live there?
in particular family members, naturally.
I ignore any other rhetoric associated with it....but each to their own like.
Help For Heroes seem to have the "heroes" rhetoric covered - no great fan of that charity.
non-compliance has to be justified
compliance is deemed necessary and obvious
I don't mind people wearing or not wearing them. I just don't want either of those parties telling me why the other point of view is wrong.
but contradictorily this doesn't sit as easily with me. Because i feel like rather than simply letting a poppy mean what it needs to - i.e. a red poppy should and is supposed to mean peace - it's sort of a statement. And less about more rememberance, more about presenting a point for other people to notice. Idk. I think the second you start going for other colours, maybe it's not as pure a form of homage. Or something. Who knows?
but in addition to that, it's making the statement that you don't agree with violent conflict. I don't think the red poppy really signifies that.
i think that's what conflicts me. i think that people amalgamating the remeberance of a specific war into supporting all wars is wrong, and not the meaning that was ever meant of a poppy. it's irksome, but i'd rather keep my own vigil for what it means.
I'd be interested (ish) if there have been any 'what does the poppy represent for you?' surveys done of the general populace.
just sort of got my argument handed to me by Bones upthread, too. Gah. it doesn't sit right with me not wearing one, though
I think the main message from WW1 and WW2 is 'never again', and that's what the poppy should signify. It's difficult for it to signify that when we're continuing to engage in conflict... You're right in that it's become problematic.
but that negates the point of buying one to support a charity.
I would much prefer wearing one I made to show my support and then do something charitable, like volunteer at a veterans hospice or something.
but having typed in ."how much money", google autofilled it with ."how much money does justin bieber have".
none of them seem to be worth even saying.
but I prefer the ones with the pins instead of the plasticky green stalk. I don't approve of the ones which are attached by sticky back plastic. My poppy is holding the front of my wrapround dress together today, thus saving the world from my boobs falling out on it. THat brave poppy.
Sub-thread- how much do you pay for yuours. I thought a quid was about right, but the man scoffed in my face at the station this morning.
Was putting away some recently purchased shopping into a bag when a little old Portugese lady stabbed my coat with one.
cos while it should be about the senselessness of war and the stupidity of so many people dying for nothing more than abstract, largely irrational ideals, it seems to actually have become about something more along the lines of celebrating the empowerment of those in the right, or whatever. Which understandably can have implicit culturally imperialist undertones. So it's less about the idea that we should do everything we can to prevent evil, and more that through armed conflict we can facilitate the good. I'm all for feelings of greater empowerment and everything, but not when guns and big explosions are involved. Cos then you're just being a sucker.
because that war was for very clear purposes that had a lot less to do with imperialism and a lot more to do with the helpless being invaded and crushed.
You're right that by adding in every war as it arises we make it a shit ton worse
we just weren't... i don't know, so blatantly evil? It's also worth pointing out that there were any number of things allied countries could've done before 1939 that would've prevented either fascism rising as a force or in hitler being in the position to invade poland and so start everything that came with that.
It's just far too simplistic, and the idea that we can actually DO stuff using military force as opposed to just preventing things is a really dangerous one. And i don't just mean that in terms of `something COULD happen`, but that these things do happen on a daily basis, it's just in places that no one really cares about unless some silly terrorists are going to come over here and bomb our underground train networks.
right? that's what makes it bad
but your point's a good one anyway.
i sort of try and remember the motives of the people who signed up for the right reasons, regardless of government failings to prevent the clash: go and stop Facists from hurting people. Go and stop genocide. Go and put that right, and then when it is right come home, and put your gun away, and live your life.
And so many did. They weren't all career soldiers. They were just people. That's what is in my head when i wear a poppy - not Churchill etc. The guys on the ground who - and i'll argue this one forever - really were good guys. Not for needing/having to kill, but for trying to protect the weaker.
I've just remembered the England friendly/poppy clusterfuck from last year. Eurgh.
(starting them young)
mostly because I like how onomatopoeic *gak* sounds
no, I just really love the word *gak*. Makes reading twitter post any Robbie Williams comeback 100% more amusing
It's not compulsory and there's no pressure to wear one unless you're a TV presenter or something ...and I'm guessing most of you aren't.
However, if you use the opportunity to run your mouth off about the armed forces under the cover of being some sort of non-conformist then you should probably start looking into hobbies.
I can't remember my name.
Yes, I am.
Not because I hate the red poppies, but I just like their message. The problem is you'd get people asking you about them and assuming you hate the troops and want them dead or something. Perhaps I could get both?
I wear an Indie-y instead, although there are some good honest poppies
but I wouldn't refuse if I was asked to for some kind of official capacity or whatevz.