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Mate at work says if this happens in Tokyo, the family gets the bill for cleanup and disruption.
Ocnsidfering you must be in the grips of a fairly severe mental illness or trauma tyo consider putting yourself under a train in the first place.
Bloody awful. We were just talking about this in work actually, as quite a few people were late.
that poor poor person and their family.
If you're considering ending your life (and in such a public way) you're surely not in possessoin of rational mind which would take into account such factors.
If TV and movies in any way reflect reality. Honour and all that innit. Or is that Klingons. I always get them confused.
It takes a lot to make me crack a smile in a suicide thread. Congrats.
Some magnetic property of the rocks makes it hard for people to find them, and to find their way out I guess.
or have they?
vice short film on it
I BET ITS LOWER THERE. Don't necessarily think its really that fair, I should add.
when Japan Rail was undergoing a period of financial restructuring, and they were laying workers off. This was back when working for a large Japanese company usually meant a job for life, healthy retirement pension etc. So to be a middle-aged man and fired from your job was completely devastating, with no dole or welfare backup.
JR workers who'd been fired started jumping in front of JR trains by way of protest, and JR responded by announcing that the family of anyone who jumped in front of one of their trains would be fined.
and i do mean loads. get one of them to translate it.
It doesn't provide much info, though. Says 1m Yen is a maximum charge and rumours of more are urban legends. 1m Yen is still a lot though - £7900.
You can't really be all that serious about killing yourself if a blue light is enough to change your mind
but also a wee bit selfish. jump off a bridge, innit. done...no real inconvenience/witnesses etc
Not subjectively speaking. The people who do this do not have the capacity to make rational decisions and while it's awful, undeniably horrific, for those who have to pick up the pieces (literally and metaphorically) you cannot attach the same kind of level of cuplability to a person who is not in their right mind.
but I have to say that I feel more sympathy for the driver who was placed in a position where he had no choice but to kill a person, than I do for the victim's family and certainly the victim themselves.
Sympathy is not a finite thing which needs to be split up into portions. Also, (and i'm not saying it isnt unspeakably awful for the driver) but they are trained for this possibility and know that it is a real risk that it will happen during thei career. Also, the driver still has his life.)
and i don't like it.
it's okay though, i've got chilli hummus and cheese sandwiches for dinner.
someone very close to me killed themselves and i did find it selfish... he had kids and responsibilities, obviously it was also horrificly sad and i still love him but it stirred up a lot of resentment in me. maybe that's not rational but i don't really give one. i don't think it's cool to shit on people for holding these sort of points of view because it more likely comes from personal experience and loss than abstract thought.
I had someone very close to me kill themselves when I was at school - the way he did it is one of the most selfish things I'll ever witness in my life
It's very natural and human to be angry when someone dies, especially suicide.
but my view is that whilst you see it as selfish, you have to try and put yourself in the position of the person who commits suicide. They are so ill/depressed that they feel that they are doing their friends and family a favour by killing themselves. What a position to be in
but if it's very natural and human to feel resentment then maybe don't have a go at people expressing those feelings? sorry i got a bit arsey with you there but it's something that obviously stirs up a lot of conflicting emotion and it's not the first time on here i've been called thick over this sort of thing.
however, you would be wrong, plain and simple, on a point of construction./ definition. For something to be selfish you have to have a degree of awareness as to the fact that you are doing something which is not the right thing for those around you, If you, subjectively, lack that basic understanding, then you cannot by definiton be said to be acting selfishly. it's semantics, perhaps.
but that's a very closed definition of selfish, and one that is very open to dispute.
...i.e. `it's semantics, perhaps` not spared from the DanielKelly `YOU'RE NOT USING ENGLISH PROPERLY` battering? I mean by all means incessantly micromanage peoples' non-understanding of definitions of stuff if you want to but it seems a bit harsh to do it when the person in question has called themself up on it...
Have you had a fall or something?
Are you seriously unaware that your main technique whilst debating stuff is to point out where the other person is using a word or a phrase incorrectly and undermine their argument from that angle?! Perfectly sound technique in some instances - it's actually more crucial here than in most instances when you use it - but the person in question here is AWARE of the downfalls of their use of the term and, therefore, shouldn't really need the `I think you're misusing the word x here` treatment.
Not really having a walloping great go pal, I just think that a recognition of the essence of what someone is saying, even if the actual definitions of the words used jar a little bit, is the most important thing in the majority of instances.
Particularly the bit where PO tells another poster that his understanding of a word is 'wrong, plain and simple'.
I'm just questionning the value of your repeated interjections in this manner, in spite of, in this instance at least, the clear (well it was clear to me anyway) self-conciousness of the poster in question. And, also, in spite of the importance of using the right words in this instance.
Sometimes it's more important to understand the essence of what someone is saying, as opposed to the actual words they're used to say it but, hey, we're all different...
I don't like admitting when I've completely misjudged a situation either.
"it's semantics, perhaps".
'however, you would be wrong, plain and simple, on a point of construction./ definition'
This isn't the case. Not because I'm Lord of the Words. For the exact opposite reason- no one is.
You can put me down now ;)
I'm just trying to get my head round the idea that suggesting a word is actually pretty open to a range of understandings is the same as 'YOU'RE DOING ENGLISH WRONG!'. Pretty strange.
it should have said from my understanding on aponit of constructoin etc. I can accept that other people might have different defintnions- to me, these are wrong.
Reading back, I do rather look as if i'm channeling you.
...plays out in my mind that you're telling them they're not using the word properly.
This is how I got to that conclusion.
i fundamentally disagree with you that people have to be utterly disconnected from rational thought to kill themselves.
my auntie died of leukaemia, she had two lads under 12 with my uncle. he killed himself and left them notes that said he had to be with her, i dont know if that's why it feels particularly selfish.
i don't see what following this line of semantic argument gains anyone.
i'm going to go back and do some work now so if you write something back and i don't respond i'm not being rude, i'll have a look later on.
And of course you're right- there might very well be cases where people are perfectly in their right mind. I think in trying to rebut the selishness presumption I sometimes probably go a bit too far the other way.
I don't think that applied in this case.
although to be fair, Silky wasn't calling suicide itself selfish, but the chosen method.
But you understand the sentiment?
Just not a fan of that expression
I have worked in this field previously and the thing that really sticks with me is that people who want to kill themselves are actually extremely calculated and rational in mind when it comes to the act itself. on a train so can't really elaborate or wax lyrical cos typing on this phone is dull.
and it's one of the reasons why severely depressed people who are started on anti-depressants are actually more likely to commit suicide in the weeks when the tablets are are starting to work than those who do not commence medication.
Suicide doesn't usually occur when a person is at their lowest, but at a level just above that. When someone is depressed to the point of stupor or inactivity, they are usually incable of physically taking the effort to commit suicide and performing the mental tasks necessary to rationalise the act.
is directly responsible for the up turn in mood and disposition- it provides a sense of certainty, finality and personal agency.
It's a difficult area to draw any definite conclusions in though, for obvious reasons.
And makes me sad to think of people that I've knonwn who have killed themselves. They did seem 'happier' in the last wweks :(
Quite often in suicide cases you hear the line...
`I don't understand - they'd seemed so much better recently`
When in reality, in a lot of these cases, they'd already made the decision weeks before which had made them a lot more comfortable.
Terribly sad, how the mind works sometimes... :(
I also don't know how you can say these people are 'actually extremely calculated and rational in mind when it comes to the act itself'. Sure, they may look like they've planned it in the greates of detail, leaving a note, planning which precise train to hop in front of. But unless you are a psychiatrist who specilaises in this field, I don't thik you can confidently state that they *knew* what they were doing. Not in the real sense. For the instinctive sense of self-preservation to be reversed to the extent that you'd jump in front of a train, something in the brain has dramatically short-circuited. Of that I am fairly confident.
Someone else please. and yes, my initial post was poorly worded and lacked compassion. still working on my internet persona, innit.
Speaking as somebody who has lost people in this way....
Maybe it's my coping mechanism. but i refuse to attribute any kind of 'responsibliity' to a person who is clearly not acting in a fully capable manner.
It seems like it would be the biggest decision you'd ever make and you wouldn't be able to do it on an unrational mind. It doesn't seem to be like an act that would be created from a moment of madness rather than one someone would be 110% certain they were doing the right thing for them.
Someone jumped off the building opposite my office the other week. I keep looking up and getting a bit upset as I can't imagine what it must be like.
but i definitely think this is true in some cases
So maybe it's in their respect for your decision, that they discourage you from using such a disruptive method.
In this country, it would never be acceptable to bill someone. But it's a very different culture.
probably hadn't planned it. The opportunity was just.. there
Which is some consolation to the families
and maybe deliver the PickledOeuf's phrase with a thumbs up?
'impact' as in disruption to other commuters, not splattered human body parts.
As much as US$65,000.
If they jump on a busy mainline then they get charged more.
But they have to get there and then there's all the coroner's reports and increased insurance premiums and counselling for the driver and lost wages due to depression and sick leave.
not just murders, obviously
not that that matters one jot. just sayin
just ^this PO's posts.
It's hit a bit of a raw nerve. I'm going to go and make a cup of tea now.
Drives those high-speed ones. Gets paid quite a lot. Has had two people jump, each time he got 3 months paid leave. Said he didn't even feel the first one. Only found out when his boss plus the po-po met him at the end of his route.
He sees it for what it is, completely not his fault and unavoidable. Says he doesn't take his work home with him or ever think about those who've jumped. Would probably be different if he mowed someone down through his own incompetence. I guess other drivers can't think about it in such rational terms. Apparently the turnover of people who do the job is ridiculously high.
In a way, you have to have sympathy for the drivers as much as the families, or even the victims themselves. Imagine just going to work and some poor sod ends up meeting their gruesome end like that. Not sure three months pay would be enough for me to carry on doing it, tbh.
Keep meaning to ask him about the three strikes and you're out rule (as in retired). Suspect it's never existed, tbh.
i imagine that's the bit that traumatises people
Partly because it isn't his fault, but mainly because his wife would be proper unimpressed at hime driving a train through the front room.
This made me lol out loud, though. Probably because of the sombre context and the fact it sounds like a vintage Les Dawson joke. 8/10
where the speed is slower, the platforms well lit and the driver is much lower and much closer to the jumper as they pass.
Having worked with tube drivers who have experienced it, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
They've putting netting up now to try and stop it but Toys R Us carpark in Woking is a bit of a notorious spot. Someone I knew vaguely lasted three days after his jump.
I remember a friend of mine who worked for TfL telling me that the suicide pits on the tube do save a good few lives.
with the suicide pits.
is that when the papers report it, they devote a scant few words to the fact that someone jumped in front of a train on such-and-such a subway line - and then several paragraphs to all the minute details about how the schedule was disrupted, which other lines were delayed, for how long, etc etc etc.
Last time I was there, someone jumped in front of a train on the Chiyoda line (one of the main subway lines) during peak hour. They had that fucker hosed off the tracks and everything back to normal in 13 minutes.
A closer parallel in this country migh be Tube strikes. There's never really any discussion about the reasons for the dispute, just about the impact on commuters.
You've got to spend a lot of time these days trawling through information and news before you can get to something resembling a balanced judgement about whether to support a strike or not.
It's incredibly annoying.
She's in hospital.
Hope they can help her.
missed all the commotion by 30 or 40 minutes, early bird, the photos of the chaos looked crazy, typical that a bus would breakdown outside at the same time
so awful....brings back memories of a mate of my best friend....the investigation found that he was accidentally pushed in all the hustle and bustle waiting for the tube to pull in :-(
and i'm surprised it doesn't happen more often actually.
I also worry about somebody losing their mind and pushing people in front of trains. Stand behind the yellow line, people!
Sorry about your friend- that's so awful.
so I stand with my back against the wall, fingers gripped round a We Will Rock You poster.
BUZZZZ ... JUST TO LET YOU KNOW LLLLADIES AND GENTLEMEN THERE ARE MINOR DELAYS ON THE VICTORIA LINE! THIS IS DUE TO AN EARLIER INCIDENT OF A PERSON UNDER A TRAIN!! WWWEEEEE SHOULD BE ON THE MOVE SHORTLY, A-THANK-A-YOU ... BUZZZ
I don't get why they even announce what happened at all. The only reason I can think is to cover their backs by explaining that it was someone else's fault completely for the delays. If they must do it, at least they could call it a passenger incident or something.
I remember before I was on the tube and a little boy with his dad heard an announcement like this and looked at him really confused and asked ... daddy why was a person under a train?
I mean how do you even answer that question? I think he just told him he didn't know and the kid looked even more confused trying to work out what it meant. That's the sort of stuff that would have haunted me as a kid.
from the hundreds of commuters who insist on not leaving enough time for their journey and whine at the slightest delay, while not realising how lucky we are in London to get the service we do. If people know why there was a delay/cancellation (whatever the reason), they're usually going to be slightly more forgiving about it and not as likely to harrass TFL staff.
The BBC2 series about the Tube earlier this year had an episode about these - apart from being quite affecting in what it showed, it was pretty shocking to see how a minority actually do react when there's a serious incident that delays them.
or was there a time in recent history where that particular announcement wasn't made? Has it been introduced fairly recently?
Can't recall it from my childhood.
In the past I don't think TFL gave much in the way of reasons for delays/suspensions. More recently they seem to try and give a relatively detailed reason - defective train/signal failure/passenger sickness etc.
who hangs out under trains all like "can't catch me" even though it's really dangerous
"He probably fell." And then I'd say I was sure he was fine in a totally unconvincing way that would let me son known I was just trying to reassure him, and that would in no way convey to him that it's good idea to go 'falling' under trains.