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Pretty sick stuff people do, huh.
But have now accepted that the word Troll has changed definition?
though for me this is showing trolling turning into a concerted campaign of abuse.
I mean what CG or forzaborza do on here is a completely different thing to something like this. Maybe Martbowski straddled the line a little but generally trolling originally tended to mean someone being controversial to provoke a reaction in people but now seems to be also used for people who maliciously harass people online, which is a totally different thing...
It's no longer what I'd previously understood it to mean, but it does now seem to be the meaning that most other people understood.
there's no point giving it another word, you know? It's straight up abuse. :/
but people can hardly be precious about a term which had only existed for a decade or so anyway.
Referring to it as "trolling" makes it easier to dismiss as "internet stuff" instead of, say, racist abuse
How? Trolling is surely THE great moral panic right now.
"Don't feed the troll" has become so ingrained as an internet motto that you still get people saying the best response to this "new" kind of trolling is to ignore it, rather than confronting and/or exposing it.
The kind of trolling people do on here (CG, KiK, Kennydope character) are the ones that you have to feed to keep them occupied. They want people to react to their minor wind ups and if you don't react, they'll move on.
You definitely shouldn't be ignoring this new kind of trolling where people are actively abusive, threatening and nasty towards people for no reason.
And if anyone else doesn't believe that there are people who still dismiss this as just "internet stuff", the poster below whose reaction to this story is "Some people take Twitter far too seriously" seems to have made my point for me.
He/she seems to have massively missed the point
There is definitely a line.
to tell people (individuals or groups) that they need to stop being offended by offensive things, or make themselves less of a target for abuse- not sure the employment of term 'trolling' is of any effect in that regard. If anything, calling abuse trolling seems to be the best way of getting people to pay attention to it at the moment.
whereas pixies are the essentially harmless windup merchants. i say we adopt this on the internets.
Not sure what he'd have done had the kid not been someone he knew though.
I'm back on Twitter.
I can imagine the cries of 'I knew he wouldn't last!' from the Twitterati.
... be honest with me, is it worth reading on?
that's pretty weird and fucked up. little shit
i fucking hate the internet
I haven't read that article yet though.
this guy's just abusing someone tho
Not just being hideously abusive...
but yeah, words change I guess.
im in no way trying to compare them. Completely different things.
And as much as it's a bit grim, I can't get past the fact that I have no idea who the hell this bloke is. Why is he of note?
Still struggling to understand why this guy has warranted so much attention/why he needs so desperately to stay on Twitter that he'd go through so much shit? Anyone?
Does he really need to satisfy all 1,400 of his followers that much that he'd go through all that abuse? Pointless.
I'm not saying that everyone doesn't have the right to go on the internet and not be abused, but this isn't exactly a normal case of internet 'trolls' attacking someone famous/in the public eye just because they can via Twitter. This is some bizarre case of someone attacking somebody they know on a personal level (i.e. he'd never have found this guy's account if it weren't for him being friends with his dad), albeit using Twitter as a cloak of anonymity. This guy is now claiming to be some martyr for Twitter, and I'm not saying what he went through isn't horrific, but it's a completely isolated case in terms of the type of abuse that is typified in the press.
idk, I think he's just irked me so I'm being unsympathetic.
just because it isn't a "normal" case, it's still an interesting insight into how and why people end up posting anonymous abuse. I certainly don't think he's claiming to be a martyr. In fact the end of the piece is surprisingly philosophical, given what he went through.
in a huge way
She said its just changed because of the internet but people have always done it (the horrible troll stuff and not the wind up stuff). She said about this young boy on a scout trip where their coach/mini bus got stuck in some mud so the had to get out and help push it out. But the bus rolled back, squashed him against a wall and killed him. After that happened, people would call up the parents house and say things like 'help me! I'm being squashed by the bus! I can't breathe! help!' etc.
Can't even imagine how horrible that would be.
(gonna read this article now)
how the fuck does it even cross someone's mind to do that?
She said there used to be loads of similar stories like that. Its always happened, internet or not internet. Its just easier now and a wider range of sickos who think its okay to taunt people who have lost loved ones.
Was having a chat with someone about the other day and they said they'd noticed it in their work where Eastern Europeans seem to constantly get grief from irish punters. My dad says he's seen a lot more young Irish lads on building sites of late and the stuff they're coming out with would've made sites he worked on in the 70s blush.
When I'm back in Ireland visiting my missus' family the stuff her brothers and their mates churn out has very nearly resulted in us coming to blows. Calling someone a *fucking jew* as an insult is de rigeur. It feels like the Ross O'Carroll-Kelly generation has imbued their kids with this baseless arrogance that seems to manifest itself in racist, homophobic, classist tirades..
i've never been sure how much of an Irish thing it is as i've never lived anywhere else. but yeah there's a disturbing casualness to a lot of the stuff i've heard, and the older generation are frequently worse.
as a consequence of another of my cousins coming out.
i hear it quite a bit when i go back home among my group of friends there, though nowhere near as vitriolic and frequent as it used to be. Might be a young working-class thing, idk. I've not been to ireland for about seven years though, all i remember was it being incredibly easy for a 16-year-old me to get tanked in the pubs. Oh and someone just with his nob out having a wazz in the middle of the main street in Mallow, in broad daylight.
I was at a wedding a few months ago and I complemented an old schoolfriend's tie (I was ribbing him a bit, it was hideous). He said "yeah dunno mate, some queer in the shop picked it out for me". :'(
Just that 'queer' is still a relativey common word that you'll hear in passing quite frequently across a broad selection of people, moreso in a 'banter' way than a genuinely ranty one, but still.
Not saying i use it, or that i don't wish others would refrain from doing so, but it wouldn't offend me and make me want to tell the internet if i overheard someone say it.
Everything depends on context, doesn't it. Casual use of an offensive term between friends would offend me much less than someone being personally abused with the same terms, but each to their own.
I was just a bit saddened that people still talk like that, especially people I like and otherwise respect. TBH it reminded me a bit of the sort of stuff I used to come out with as an ignorant teen.
Adding all this pseudo-justification just makes you look like a needy troll, and no one wants that.
Sorry to have to pull you up on it. Maybe a bit of time out might do you good?
Was merely saying that casual use of that word, once, in a jokey manner, between friends, isn't terribly offensive, TO ME. It's par for the course on E4, ffs.
try viewing kik's posts from the angle of "he's not trolling, he's 100% serious"
it's pretty entertaining
The statement "this tie is in poor taste because the guy who picked it was some queer" isn't offensive? Are you sure about that?
i wouldn't get on my high horse about it, no.
If i witnessed someone personally abusing someone with the same term, yeah, i'd almost certainly pull them up on it.
It's just a word that seems to still be freely used, and i don't mean by friends of mine, just generally. Not arguing it should be, but it is.
You're very annoying.
and within this context, just dropping a homosexual slur casually in front of an acquiantance, it is pretty offensive. Just because something is done a lot...can't even be bothered following this through, you're a bright lad even if you do spend most of your time pretending otherwise.
Thanks, I do try.
between saying 'some queer in a shop' in an offhand way
to calling someone a 'fucking queer'
Granted, if you change the word to something like 'paki' or 'chink', then it's different somehow. If he'd said 'some faggot' it would be a lot worse.
Dunno, kind of agree with KiK that 'queer' really isn't that bad, but I'd never say it and probably wouldn't hang around with people that do say it. It doesn't have all these heavily historical connotations that a lot of other words do. I mean, 'queer theory' is a legitimately used critical approach to literary study... It still can be used offensively but on the whole it's pretty non-toxic.
My parents and brother are the same. I have just stopped trying to argue and just ignore everything they say when it comes to that kind of stuff.
great at building roads, though, so every cloud...
there's a lot of ignorance about what kind of jokes are acceptable to tell. But I think it's fairly rare that I see any actual active prejudice.
When everyone online is basically Comic Shop Guy from The Simpsons it's not surprising that general abusive and off hand comments are ignored but what really REALLY winds people up is someone saying they don't really mind Han shooting first.
It's definitely valid that it should now encompass this sort of thing and we just need people to treat it more seriously.
it's logical to deduce that people have always thought this way, they've just been afraid to say it previously (or not afraid to say it a lot, in fairness)
i don't know where i'm going with this, just :/
anonymity and the fact you don't hear/see the effect of the actions, so yeah i agree, the internet has made it easier for people to be arseholes to other people
Just hope I'm never in that situation, I guess.
cheers and CHEERS
Hmmm. [something something] parental responsibilities (although, tbf,, it was an impressive showing when it came to the cooperation with the sting operation on their own son). Not that that's a complete answer. And it's obviously not relevant to every similar case, seeing as many of these stalky pricks are adult age. But it's definitely worth recapping on the fact that ths internet is not, never has been, never will be, never should be, and never can be a playground. Ignorance (of tech, or otherwise) is no excuse for not having a handle on knowing what your kids mostly get up to online.
(Well written article, btw. Exceeded my expectations after reading the twitter-centric intro.)
heck, i've seen enough people of the age to have teenage kids have an absolute one trying to get computers to do the simplest things. bit unfortunate really; most of these people had kids when the 'net wasn't really so much of a thing at all: 14, 15, 16, 17 years ago.
i'd not be surprised if a heck of a lot of parents of troublesome internet teens have tried and tried to get a handle on their kids' online behaviour to the extent that they think they have or they think they can never. not that this solves anything, but it certainly needs a more nuanced approach than declaiming them from mount high horse
already worrying about this.
It would be pretty hard to prevent someone of that age, who quite possibly has their own income and constant & legal access to internet and any and every gadget, from doing whatever they want.
Imo very very little blame lies with the parents here.
(The age of the kid when it started in July 2009.)
is that to me or is this a threadsmash?
Then the troll's mum tipped me the wink and I punched him in the cock
tell me what I would be reading on that page if my eyes were still in their sockets?
I can imagine the cries of 'I knew he wouldn't last!' from the Twitterati.
But give me a few minutes of your time and I'll tell you why I'm back and the real truth about exactly why I left in the first place.
In my blog of 12th August entitled 'Walking, Not Running' I talked about my time on Twitter and my basic reasons for leaving. I stand over a lot of what I said. The atmosphere there has changed and there have been negative stories in the media about trolling, etc, for months now. The brand has been damaged and Twitter needs to act fairly swiftly to repair it. At the time of writing that blog, for reasons that will become obvious, I was very sketchy about my own personal experience.
When I left Twitter numerous people thought it was as a result of an overreaction on my behalf. That my departure was a kneejerk reaction to a couple of 'trolling' or 'flaming' incidents or that I was attention seeking. The reality of the situation is that my wife and I were targeted for over 3 years.
It started in July 2009. I'd been on Twitter for over 2 years at that point having joined in May 2007, and I'd never had a problem. My account was followed by a fairly innocuous looking one which I followed back and within 10 minutes I had received a Direct Message (DM) calling me a 'Dirty f*cking Jewish scumbag'. I blocked the account and reported it as spam. The following week it happened again in an identical manner. A new follower, I followed back, received a string of abusive DM's, blocked and reported for spam. Two or three times a week. Sometimes two or three times a day. An almost daily cycle of blocking and reporting and intense verbal abuse. So I made my account private and the problem went away for a short while. There were no problems on Twitter but my Facebook account was hacked, my blog was spammed and my email address was flooded with foulmouthed and disgusting comments & images. Images of corpses and concentration camps and dismembered bodies.
Again, it eased off for a couple of weeks. I relaxed. Thought they'd finally tired of failing to get a reaction from me. Boy, was I wrong.
I didn't mention it to my wife. Didn't see the point of worrying her. But then she joined Twitter to see what it was like and grew to enjoy it. It wouldn't have been immediately obvious to outsiders that we were man and wife. She made the mistake though of changing her profile to state that she was 'The long suffering wife of @LeoTraynor'. Not a good idea. She received a DM stating 'Your husband is scum. A rotten b*stard and you're a wh*re.' She laughed it off. Blocked and reported and then the pattern started again. We got to the point of not accepting new followers at all and then one day my wife received a torrent of abuse via DM and on the timeline that was so vile she's never been on Twitter since - which is a real shame as she has so much to share and is far more interesting than I am.
People kept asking me 'Why you? Why would these guys want to have a go at you?' I couldn't answer them other than it was a couple of random nutters who didn't appreciate my political views or ethnic origins. Or even someone who couldn't solve my cryptic crosswords!
The whole thing escalated in June, July and August this year. I received more and more abuse on the timeline and via DMs. A crossword clue account I'd started (@Leo'sClue) was inundated with abuse too.
Then one day something happened that truly frightened me. I don't scare easily but this was vile.
I received a parcel at my home address. Nothing unusual there - I get a lots of post. I ripped it open and there was a tupperware lunchbox inside full of ashes. There was a note included 'Say hello to your relatives from Auschwitz' I was physically sick.
I was petrified.
They had my address.
I reported it to the authorities and hoped for the best.
Two days later I opened my front door and there was a bunch of dead flowers with my wife's old Twitter username on it. Then that night I recieved a DM. 'You'll get home some day & ur b**ches throat will be cut & ur son will be gone.'
I got on to the authorities again but, polite and sympathetic as they were, there didn't seem much that could be done.
Every night for weeks I lost sleep over it. Listening for noises. Opening the door everday with trepidation. Trying to maintain a semblance of normality and not let my wife or son see that I was dying on the inside. Mortified that they might be in danger because of my big mouth or ancestry.
Then the last straw. I received another tweet, on the public timeline this time 'I hope you die screaming but not until you see me p*ss on ur wife'
I closed my account immediately and swore I'd never go back, in spite of the friends I have there.
I made it clear that I would pursue the troll or trolls and that I would take action. What I didn't say though was that I'd already been pursuing them for weeks and had a very good idea where, if not who, they were.
In July I was approached by a friend, who's basically an IT genius, and he offered some help. He said that he could trace the hackers and trolls for me using perfectly legal technology, which would lead to their IP addresses. I said yes. Then I baited them - I was deliberately more provocative toward them than ever I'd been before.
Holidays intervened. My Twitter account was deactivated but before doing so I posted links to my Google+ account, blog and invited people to contact me on Facebook. I'm delighted that a lot of my lovely friends did. I'm also delighted that The Troll did too.
It transpired that the abuse had emanated from three separate IP addresses in different corners of Ireland. Two of them were public wifi locations but the third....
The third location was the interesting one.
The third location was a friends house.
The Troll was his son. His 17yr old son.
I was gobsmacked.
I spoke to my friend at length. He told me how his son was always glued to his laptop, tablet or smartphone. How he couldn't watch a TV show without tweeting about it simultaneously. About how he'd become engrossed in conspiracy sites. It also became clear that the other two IP addresses had been used by his son.
He was horrified at what his son had done. Horrified, but not surprised. He wanted to call the authorities there and then and turn him in. But I said no.
A couple of days after that conversation I met my friend, his wife and their son in a quiet and discreet location. The son, The Troll who almost driven me mad, was totally unaware that I'd be joining them.
I sat down and ordered a big pot of tea. "Do you still like choc chip cookies?" I asked The Troll and he nodded eagerly, a shadow of the little boy that was flickering across his face.
We had a chat. I told them about my wife and son. I told them about my recent illnesses and bereavements and about the builders having been in. I asked after their business and asked The Troll how college is going. All bright and breezy and a trip down memory lane. Then The Troll's Dad tipped me the wink and I opened my bag and took out my manila folder.
I showed The Troll's mother and father screengrabs and printouts of his handiwork.
I showed them pictures of ashes and dead flowers.
I pointed out that one of the messages my wife received wishing me dead had arrived when I actually was gravely ill.
I told them of how I'd become so paranoid that I genuinely didn't know who to trust anymore.
I told them of nights when I'd walked the rooms, jumping at shadows and crying over the sleeping forms of my family for fear that they would suffer because of me.
Then it happened...
The Troll burst into tears. His dad gently restraining him from leaving the table.
I put my hand on his shoulder and asked him "Why?"
The Troll sat there for a moment and said "I don't know. I don't know. I'm sorry. It was like a game thing."
A game thing.
So, that's what it was...
The Troll's mother said "If you want to call the Garda we'll support you in that. I'm ashamed of him."
I responded: "I'm not criminalizing a 17 year old kid and ruining his future. But I will write about it - and you must all guarantee me that he'll go and see a counsellor about this or I will go legal on you."
Then I got up to leave. I looked The Troll in the eye and said "Stand up."
He stood. I said " Look at me. I'm a middle aged man with a limp and a wheeze and a son and a wife that I love. I'm not just a little avatar of an eye. You're better than this. You have a name of your own. Be proud of it. Don't hide it again and I won't ruin it if you play ball with your parents. Now shake hands."
"I'm sorry." he said, and looked like he meant it. "Thanks for giving me a break dude."
Then we shook on it.
And that is how I came to shake the hand of a troll.
any chance of a summary?
would you like a foot massage whilst you read it?
wonder if the "it was like a game thing" just meant "just messing around" or whether he was implying that it was actually a part of some semi-organised troll-fest?
would have been the perfect response