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I don't really remember him though, but I was never very observant.
it sounds like an absolute nightmare
you know it's quite offensive to start making up stories to explain this when 12 people have been killed
It's just hard to image what kind of person would do such a thing.
i can't believe someone who spent a whole day trying claim that the abstract concept of 'art' was offended by the paintings of Mark Rothko is using the phrase /Im not trying to be offensive./
anyway, there's really no need for this to be discussed. over a dozen people have been killed, the situation is still developing and people sitting around, gawping at it and discussing potential reasons (while having very little information) is trying to make it into something to keep them occupied, imo
In the nicest possible way, FUCK YOU!
Also, welcome to the internet. Don't want to discuss this?
1) Don't enter thread.
2) Don't post on thread.
more and more like an explosion in a dick factory.
what a moron.
and admitted it was, I believe ' a dick move'. Give him a break.
Honestly, THIS PLACE.
Fuck him - He made a dick move in that Radiohead thread and he made a dick move in this one. Repeat offender, no break given.
1? 2? 3? 4? 5? 6? 7? 8? 9? 10? 11? or is the cuttoff at 12?
People who've read the Batman comics can more or less predict the plot.
I know there are more important things being discussed here. But could you please try and preface your posts with SPOILER ALERT if what you are typing is going to ruin the plot for people, as I think you just did.
Was not my intention to spoil.
turns out you did an inverse spoiler double bluff.
Well done sir.
People who've read the Batman comics will be familiar with the plot, major events and characters.
Always been one of my worst fears an attack inside a cinema screen.
Going to check his twitter right now
loved the film too
What motive could this person possibly have?
horrid stuff :(
1043: Frank Fania from Aurora police department tells CNN that the suspect is a younger adult male. He says he could not give an exact age but he believed he was in his early 20s.
1044: Brenda Stewart from KOA News Radio in Denver told the BBC World Service that when people in the theatre first heard the gunshots, "they thought it was part of the movie at first, then maybe it was a prank. Then all of a sudden people started hitting the ground, running out of the theatre".
Apparently he has told police that he has explosives at home too, which they are going to investigate now.
its gonna be another Columbine/Virginia tech nutjob isn't it?
probably a muslim extremist, innit
jesting at 14 people dead. amazing stuff.
Hypocrite either way.
Of course he just looks like an utter prick though.
I think we would all have heard a lot more about Aurora if something like this could be considered unsurprising
....Fucking hell. Got that same sick feeling I had a year ago when the Norway stuff came out. Horrible.
Not saying it's not awful, I just can't even muster surprise/horror any more.
I watch a hell of a lot of fucked up films, but no matter how many shootings there are in US schools/ colleges/ shopping malls it always fucking horrifies me when something like this happens.
I'd say I'm still horrified and freaked out by them.... but surprised? Sadly, no.
what does phase me is that horror killings in parts of africa etc do not get 'the celebrity treatment' because it IS considered the norm and to be expected.
What will probably happen: More people taking guns to cinemas :(
and so many people genuinely believed it could have been prevented had more people been carrying guns.
Guy in my office started taking his gun to work with him, leaving it in his truck. he later told a story of when he was driving back from College Station and was harassed the whole way by a road rage driver, the both of them pulling out and cutting each other up. He opened his glove box and had it open ready for him to reach for the hand gun in case the other person did the same.
The whole time he told this story he was laughing because it was funny; i spent the whole time edging further away from him and later declining a lift back to the office. :/
and they interviewed one of the spokespeople for the NRA who said basically the same thing. Pretty insulting to the people who died that day in my opinion.
Gun-nuts really are disgusting cretins
He says that nights out are so much safer than nights out in the UK because no one starts anything because no one knows who has a gun on them. M.A.D. in effect I suppose.
That they're for protection before anything else.
As sheeldz says below, to be honest in a country with 300million people and hundreds of millions of guns I'm actually surprised there aren't more instances like this. But they're absolutely horrific, no doubt about that.
That couldn't go wrong.
if gun crime and ''normal'' people (as opposed to criminal gangs etc) getting shot on a regular basis. Gun crime only gets in the news there when it is a massacre.
It's utterly horrid but not really beyond believability sadly.
I'm sure the media reaction in the States will centre around whether or not he was atheist, a videogame player, fan of Nolan's darker takes on the film, whether or not viral marketing has gone too far or a Slipknot fan rather than any of the more pressing issues. Everytime you read one of these stories about an American youth you hope it'll be the last one. Can't see that being the case though.
But actually more shocked that it doesn't happen more often, really.
Saw a video clip of people running outside the theatre, one guy covered in blood being led away.
We've had a few talks on 'active shooter' type events recently at work. The thing is you can't really plan a response for things like this as they're usually over so quickly.
Beyond these mass shootings there are something like 30 firearm homicides every single day. That's like one mass shooting 365 days a year.
At least start slowly advancing towards a situation where you can put a stop to things like this, even if it takes decades.
But no, the laws will go unchanged, and the criminal will be romanticised as an antihero by the media, just to see the same thing 'shock the nation' time and time again.
There's an absolute minimum of 100 million legally held firearms in circulations and Christ knows how many tens of millions of illegally held firearms.
There's simply no way of changing things now. They've banned assault weapons in most states and limited magazine capacities in others, but there's little more they can do. No government would ever survive an attempt to ban new sales or collect those already out there.
But that's why I assume it needs to take decades. Continually withdraw guns from circulation, massively tighten/restrict/outlaw the distribution of new commercial firearms over time, change the media portrayal of gun crime, educate people on the issue. etc. etc.
To take the attitude that *nothing* can be done is no better or worse than what the government is doing, when overtime things can realistically change. Maybe not to the extent that guns are completely irradiated, but at least to move things forward.
Gordon: The Narrows is lost. And we still haven't picked up Crane or half the inmates of Arkham that he freed.
Batman: We will. We can bring Gotham back.
Gordon: And what about escalation?
Gordon: We start carrying semi-automatics, they buy automatics. We start wearing Kevlar … they buy armor-piercing rounds.
No party in the US (and let's not forget, to all intents there are only two of them) could ever survive utterly alienating the 80%+ of the American electorate who would be appalled by this.
It is significantly more likely that the welfare state in this country will cease to exist than a firearms ban comes into effect in the US.
Damn [you have been fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute]
I don't know maybe I couldn't find a basis in reality when it was a shooting at some unheard of highschool in America, there wasn't anything about the situation or the place that I could relate to enough. I always enjoy big openings because you know that all around the world people are enjoying it at the same time all with fresh eyes. It's a shared experience and it hits pretty hard to think as some people were watching the same film in another cinema people were being shot dead.
but i agree with you. it's that whole 'something nice gone terribly, terribly wrong'. like that radiohead stage collapse - it gets me in some discreet way that some other awful disasters don't. i think of myself and my little brother getting excited about these events for weeks - months - in advance. and then the day arrives and it becomes a waking nightmare. horrible.
say that a gas canister came from the back, then another from the front, before the shooting started. It makes it sound like it wasnt just one guy.
you have to wonder if that's a hysterical re-remembering.
they've spoken to quite a few people now and others have said he threw both.
respected *ahem* news organs using the phrase <<Batman Shootings>>
It is going to happen.
will have played COMPUTER GAMES recently
evil, evil computer games
life imitating art
The phrase 'bane style mask' is popping up as well. How about: it was a gas mask, because he was USING TEAR GAS.
Fucking hell. It's obviously not that gun control laws are an abomination. It's that COMIC BOOK.
at best they'll stay quiet, at worst they'll be uncontrollably noisy and ruin the movie for everyone.
''a girl who appeared to be about nine years old with a gunshot wound to the stomach'' made me well up. Horrific.
The url pretty much sums up the idiocy therein.
What a crock of horseshit.
how long before we get his FB page and his YT channel?
of a film featuring a gun. Then we can be told exactly why he did it.
he takes a fucking beating. just as much odds on his bizarre analogies having an effect on a psycho as anything else.
James Holmes, 24, of North Aurora, was apprehended at the scene clad in a bullet-proof vest and riot helmet.
A debate for the another day though, although not one that will be particularly rational.
this is the only intelligent thing about gun ownership I have EVER heard a US politician say
I sincerely doubt he's say it if he was mayor, of, say, Houston, but even so, major US political figures need to be saying this stuff...
Saw the movie last night and went to bed, just reading about this now. Awful news.
"clearly we need to look deeply into the influence of these films and videos again, i think more research should be done into the effects blahblahblah'
that greater exposure to violent media is conducive to greater violence. It's plainly evident in day-to-day life that people are not great self-regulators or masters of their own destiny. That violent media has a definite neurological impact on developing minds is pretty much the prevailing theory these days.
Of course, stupid people with easy access to guns is a big part of the problem too ...
the implied solution to that idea is increased censorship, which nobody wants and in any event is probably even more unlikely than America suddenly getting tough on the guns issue.
where the amount of games sold is hugely weighted towards violent first person shooters. They're also incredibly anti-social and (I think more worrying) anonymous, with abuse hollered over headsets and a lot of homophobic bullying on forums - from what I can ascertain anyhow, being merely a wussy Wii owner.
I've no doubt that in some cases, these people are influenced by GTA, Tarantino flicks, etc but I do just find it slightly depressing that this is always one of the first issues to get raised over more likely issues such as upbringing, unemployment, lack of opportunities, gun controls or mental illness. It's a lazy thing to trot out, isn't it?
A bit like if a killer owns a Marilyn Manson CD, it's news. I wonder how many murders have records by Abba or Kylie?
violence has always existed. brutality has always existed. the instruments of torture used by the spanish inquisition were not inspired by the saw movies? no. humanity is cruel and violent, it always has been.
we make violent movies and video games as a reaction to the violent world around us, not the other way around. People have always murdered, raped, beaten and stolen.
A woman on Sky news was just talking about the link between his outfit and banes appearance. He was wearing a gas mask because he planned to use tear gas and body armour because he probably anticipated a stand off with police.
This is just really, really horrific and sad and I find it frankly distasteful how desperate sky news are to have more to say about it (they have covered nothing else all day) that they have people already speculating on his motivations when they have absolutely no information yet. One woman just asked someone “In your opinion is he a badman or a madman?” no-one but the police has spoken to the shooter yet, why do people insist on speculating?
but the rest of your post ... Sorry, nah.
And a fact that incidents of violent crime have decreased steadily for the past 200-odd years.
first is a truism.
The fact that violence existed before video games and films is irrelevant to the study of how exposure to violent media influences neurological development. Then there's the presumption that recognising that as fact is tantamount to thinking it's a problem that needs a solution, an that the solution can only be censorship ...
Dunno, didn't seem worth it on a Friday afternoon. Welcome back though.
great back-tracking, though. lovely stuff
I didn't. I also haven't back tracked. Never mind.
'it' refers to your neurological studies, which you brought up clearly to counter sophia being sceptical about that scientist fella saying 'we need to research the effects of violent media more!' it's not a jump to 'presume' - as you, typically indirectly accused me of doing - that you think it's a 'problem' that should be addressed in some way.
you're right though, just forget the whole thing because it's pointless arguing with you.
well, i'd suggest that's a false dichotomy; 'culture and media' and 'real life' aren't perfectly discrete spheres and nor is there a straightforward causal link where one always precedes the other. it's almost certainly more accurate to say that the culture we produce, the culture we consume, and the things we do/think all relate to each other in a mutually reinforcing feedback-loop kind of way, which is how psychological and sociological norms are maintained and magnified. it kinda sounds like you're saying that human nature is inherently cruel/violent and all culture is simply a reflection of that pre-existing state. sure, violence has always existed, but cultures have always existed that help to foster and perpetuate violence; 'violent media' is just one of a multitude of cultural and sociological mechanisms that add up to make people the way we are
i agree that the focus on violent visual media as an exclusive and unique source of social problems is simplistic and banal, but that media is unarguably a part of the culture that surrounds us and informs our mental landscape, so to write it off as completely irrelevant seems equally reductive. there's a bit of a defensive tendency among internet anti-censorship types to verge on suggesting that (eg) video games exist in some special imaginary space detached from 'the real world' and shouldn't ever be connected with it or critiqued in social terms
is a poor choice of words
i've had constant coverage behind me all day (there is a flatscreen hung behind my desk) so im feeling a bit het up and anxious.
In fact, I will, I was being flippant. IGNORE ME.
where video games and movies weren't nearly as rampant
all these people spending their entire day getting excited about the prospect of seeing the film, going in really happy and.... well, y'know. Twitter exacerbates it, when their happy, normal updates just stop. See also: Facebook pages after someone passes away. So grim.
'However, the figures themselves are astounding for Brits used to around 600 murders per year. In 2010 - the latest year for which detailed statistics are available - there were 12,996 murders in the US. Of those, 8,775 were caused by firearms.'
obviously that still makes it a relative increase in murders but to just lay those numbers out there like that is misleading
Also insane how many people they send to prison.
Their murder rate has been falling steadily for 2 decades though. As is the case in much of the world.
Sky News, apparently unable to get hold of any proper academics have just been speaking to some lecturer at the University of East London (Everyone's 15th favourite London University) who has been sputing on about the Colorado frontier mentality and how people like to solve problems with action.
FFS, this happened in an urban area of some 3,000,000 people not in fucking Tombstone.
during DKR screenings now.
I feel safer already.
it should be 'the cinema shootings'
i share your discomfort.
"A few weeks ago, a man by the username of 'JamesHolmes154' posted a thread on 9gag saying he was going to 'shoot up' a theater. He was clearly distressed and admitted? he was suffering from PTSD. He said he was going to walk in and try to take as much lifes as possible. The whole 9gag community egged him on and give him tips on what to wear, etc. They give him tips on sharp-shooting and sent him messages on how to take as much lifes as possible. 9gag is a sick site and needs to be destroyed. "
hope its fake
that's nice of them isn't it?
then forming his gloopy, yellow tinted sperm into a crown
Some of the victims have made threads
These kinds of cases are always very difficult to talk about. James Holmes, the alleged perpetrator, was obviously a deeply damaged man for whom I do feel *some* pity, but the fact is he has murdered 12 people and that has to come first really.
Obviously his actions are disgusting and reprehensible and primarily I feel for those killed/injured and their families, but I'll always feel just a wee bit sorry for anyone driven to such awful lengths. Not very, though.
I was following a live stream earlier this morning with witnesses and not one mentioned it. They all said it was just a gas mask and he said nothing. Think they are trying to make this fit together and make sense, which now could mean that the film will be pulled by Warner....the paris premiere was pulled.
Its like they want to mythologise the shootings in some way, to create some sense of lurid enigmatic thrill out of it, because hey, its BATMAN and ITS ALL DARK AND TWISTED
When the reality is that a whole bunch of people have had their lives ripped apart forever in yet another American mass-shooting.
I dunno. I almost feel that somewhere there's a studio exec with dollar signs in his eyes because the twin deaths of Heath LEdger and now this have somehow given BATMAN a lurid air of death and mystery
I think what is scaring people is also the fact that this kid seems to be relatively normal in the conventional sense, he looks normal in comparison to previous similar massacres and he did well in college. People are not willing to accept the chaotic nature of these type of murders, there always needs to be a pattern. The killer needs to be identified as someone so different from everyone else.
They are making him fit this freak persona dressing as the joker so that you know you can be safe when you stay away from strange people that like comics and dark music. They were like that guy, so stay away from them if you don't want to get shot. Everything back in it's right place. late night nonsensical rant.
It's pretty entry-level Charlie Brooker type stuff but you can certainly see the need for the news to package the story as a sensational narrative replete with character roles and a nice juicy moral for the audience to chew upon
Really, I'd imagine that this is a completely indiscriminate killing and whilst you can point towards an increasingly violence-driven popular culture the main point is surely that any loon can leave their house and buy a range of automatic weapons and play God no?
'he did well in college' is an odd one though, I'd say it's more often the case than not... the Columbine killers were very bright students, especially Dylan Klebold. And that guy who killed 3 prostitutes in the UK was doing a pHD in Criminology, wasn't he? I guess in some sad cases the flip side of extreme intelligence is a propensity for madness and violence.
Very strong post, though.
obviously it's not going to be pulled. the shootings should be removed from the film as much as possible. this is not about a film. this is about one psychopathic individual.
Not only did they take a baby and a 4 year old. The guy fucking ditched the baby and wife+kid and made a run for it. He actually put the baby down in the theater and ran. Im reading this right arent i? Then he fucking DROVE OFF without them and only came back when she phoned him?
1st reaction - what a cunt. I would NEVER abandon my child like that no matter what the situation
2nd reaction - Actually I have no fucking clue how I'd respond in a moment like that so I can't really blame him or say a word in all honesty
but I'm nearly 100% sure you wouldn't leave a baby on the fucking floor and run. I mean, I went over the bonnet of a car once knocking an 11 year old out of the way, and I'm not generally noted for my bravery. A BABY?!
Fucking hell, even if it wasn't your own flesh and blood, surely the immediate instinct would be to completely cover ANY child up and get them the fuck out of there, whether you made it or not
then again, the shooter had 2 glocks, a shotgun and an AR-15 assualt rifle fitted with a special magazine carrying 100 rounds
he'd already lobbed at least one tear gas cannister
and this was in a crowded theatre of several hundred panicking people
in the dark
so, who knows ?
having said that, mum was there too so I'm guessing this is, at some future date, definitely going to put a strain on their relationship
But again, it seems the mother somehow managed to gather the children and get out. Even after getting shot.
what an absolute wanker.
But i suppose you never know how you would react in this situation. But you would hope his children and wife would be the first priority.
if i were her, id be rethinking that whole relationship.
Ive had time to think about it. No matter what, your first instinct as a parent should be to protect you children. Be a human shield at the very least. Fuck me!
...and i can only second what's been said above about it being very strange that the emphasis is being placed on the film itself and not the perpetrator.
Course, it's very sad, firstly that a person's felt so detached from society that carry out such an act has made sense in their mind, but moreso that completely innocent people have paid the price for that, but whenever something like this happens certain people do overdo it, despite being completely unconnected and thousands of miles away. There was a girl in the offices at work yesterday crying, ffs. Then you read Twitter, and even forums, and people seem to have the popcorn out, as if they're involved on a personal level.
You just hope the person responsible pays for what he's done, but more than that gets the help he quite obviously needs. You can't guard against random acts like that, i don't think, but there probably are big changes we can make to society. Not even specifically about gun control in America, and certainly not the old 'films/video games bring on this sort of shit' stuff, but just by addressing why so many people, particularly young men, feel so cut off from society and the need to resort to things like this.
probably your best post tbh
"by my own unsourced claims he could never afford all of that equipment i'm claiming he had SO WITH THOSE COLD HARD FACTS IN MIND, the government did this"
"Such calls inevitably end up resulting in gun confiscation, and it's never too long after that before government genocide really kicks in like we saw with Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and other tyrants."
yeah, gun control is ALWAYS the first step to genocide. if only people had been able to go down to the shop and get some guns the holocaust would never have happened, rite
is utterly mental
there are loads of weapons, substances and activities that you're not allowed access to but apparently those are all sensible and fine, just don't take our freedom guns away.
I wonder why people feel the need to bring guns to church, the first man murdered, surely he being murdered is also wrong? even if people were armed at the film, wouldn't their fear been so strong thinking straight to shoot the attacker could have killed a innocent person
he played bateman so well i often have trouble forgetting he's not a psychopath in every role
except he looks cuddly there so good for him