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Their prediction was for 0.1% growth.
Well done all round really.
Well I never.
it comes in at -0.2
a sliver of a percent, that's not a surprise!
now it is 98.1%
This govt has basically shrunk the economy while it has been in power
but it sounds bad. is it bad?
If you want to see the back of this government, not really.
*pops champagne cork*
Or yours. So I wouldn't worry about it.
I measured the surface area of the Tesco's next to my office and it has 0.2% less floor space now. Broken fucking Britain.
if i didn't know you were trolling
I'm sure you can figure it out
I thought as much.
But I will not be trolled any further.
the stock market has fallen and employment will likely stall again (pushing up the tax burden).
From a personal perspective, the main driver of these poor figures has been the performance of the construction sector, which could affect my job.
But that level of confidence is what you get when a government has no plans for growth.
Do you mean banks not releasing capital to SMEs?
Don't know why I said capital.
@faisalislam Number 11 pointing out that Holland, Denmark, Czech Republic also in recession. €zone forecast to be.
it's ok guys, a former Sov block state and a country with less than the population of London are also in recession.
Need to know for my own plans
If you're cynical, you might suggest that it's achieving exactly what they want.
slashing the social and welfare provision of the state, reducing employment rights, concentrating wealth at the top of the population, ghettoising cities like London, undermining state education etc etc etc...
I don't think you do.
Either they're incompetent and it's a consequence of actions designed to do something else, or it's deliberate policy.
Which is a stoopid thing to say. I can only assume you're trolling?
Every single Tory MP joined the party and formed a Government to specifically wreck the country and apply cuts to people who are worse off than them, because, you know, they're all entirely cruel, twisted individuals with no compassion...
there would probably have been exchanges like this taking place
to the Nazi party? Way to keep perspective on things.
I'm merely highlighting the inherent difficulty in considering malicious intentions in groups of individuals in power as anything more than fantasy (until after the fact of course)
You're comparing the Conservative party to the Nazis...
towards the Jews and their policies were so deliberately targeted at disadvantaging and disenfranchising the Jews. So people trying to defend their intentions as non-malicious would have looked like bastards/fools. That's clearly not the case here.
Are you not saying that there probably would have been people on internet message boards in 1936 making sarcastic comments about people joining the Nazi party because they're evil and hate the Jews?
and that if I was alive in 1930's Germany and there were internet message boards, I would be defending the Nazi's stating that "they only want to do the best for the country"
Because obviously, the Government's welfare reforms are entirely comparable to the Nazi party's ghettoisation and discrimnation of people because of their ethnic and social status.
They're just looking after their interests and the interests of those who put them into power. I don't necessarily think that there's anything vindictive about it.
So uh, the Government is looking after the 59.1% of people who voted for them (across two parties)
Seems pretty fair to me.
I'm becoming CG
when he makes points that he knows he can't defend.
1. This is a Tory government in all but name (in fact, as with things like the NHS bill, it goes even further than the Tory manifesto)
2. Putting someone into power and voting for them are two different things, as anyone can appreciate. Putting someone into power involves things like party funding, PR dressed up as news reporting, lobbying, etc, until enough people outside of those funding the parties, carrying out the PR and lobbying think that putting an 'X' next to your name is in their interests. This government are looking after the interests of the former, not the latter.
You're entitled to have it.
1. Uh, no it's not.
2. As someone who voted for the Government, I feel that, aside from their godawful PR problem, they are implementing things, in general that are in my interests/ the interests of the whole country. Otherwise, how could you explain the number of things that they have done that have annoyed many Tory voters (not me)- freezing of personal allowance, no referendum on Europe, enshrinement of foreign aid at 0.7% of GDP, consultation on Same Sex Marriage.
For example, I think their work on welfare, whilst getting short shrift from the left wing side of the press, will eventually be held up as a success.
Unfortunately, a number of people will suffer from these reforms, but sadly, the Government can't go around with their magical leprachaun money piles solving every problem with cash as his been the way for some time now.
But I guess we just disagree, which is part of the magical rainbow of life.
of course it isnt a double dip ercession in reality.
Its been a constant downward, the 'double dip' nature is merely in the reporting of certain aspects that are measured.
Let me explain.
After the first 'measured dip' activity went on to change the aspects that were measured. These 'activities' degraded economies in other ways that are measured differently, but effectively transferred resource from one area (which was degraded i.e. the future) to areas that are measured, the now.
The activities to counter the first 'dip' were not curative measures, they were 'stave off' methods.
Well those resources that were borrowed from elsewhere, are now nearly depleted, and thus the areas that the dips are measured in are now being measured as dipping again.
Problem is, the situation is now worse due to the activities indulged in to 'stave off'
(In this post I am referring so generically so that it can cover both the Eurozone's, and the UK's reactions to economic crisis)
They are just trying to keep the boat afloat, they have no idea beyond that.
The only +ve if you can call it that, is that the banks are slightly more stable, in that they can probably sink more gracefully than they could previously......they will still fall, but the way they will fall has changed, it will be easier for banks to now shrink radically and retain some existance.
and cannot see all the interconnectiveness of the global economy, then you will only notice it as a 'double dip'
If you take the bigger more inclusive picture then it is obvious that this is only a method of measurement which is popularly reported.
the problem lies beyond that.
a) report this panickly on the news? No someone else did
b) did I start this thread and use the misleading term 'double dip'? No I did not.
c) do you really expect that anyone can sit and hear things being misleadingly referred to, when it is the misunderstanding that allows people to be fooled that their leaders ARE taking appropriate action and thus allow their leaders to take irrelevant and damaging action to rectify a symptom rather than seek to remedy the cause? without saying anything?
that everyone talk about it in a nonsense babyish way, personally I cant help but try to point out that the way people discuss it is because they have been mislead as to what the situation is.
was just making an offhand jokey comment
If all you want to talk about is carrots and superglue?
The new single from Weezer.
Labour's fault innit
then look at your iphones, weekly dvd and take out purchases and feel VERY STUPID and spoiled for even contributing the the discussion and fueling a fire with no point.
So we can't talk about millions of people losing their jobs, the economy and society being restructured to suit the needs of the few, simply because some of us have bought a mobile phone? So we're only allowed to discuss the decline standard of living when it reaches a level last seen eighty years ago?
as project dissapear and job appear one day then dissapear and come back again cos some dumb fuckwit makes a guess about the economy on the news. you are just making the situation worse with speculation. accept the situation and just go about your life. Standards of living will raise and fall over the duration of your life and there are both positive and negative effects of this that generally balance each other out.
My grandfathers generation seemed to have a much greater sense of community and respect and humility towards the people around them for example.
All I'm saying is be greatful, at some point in life everyone will have a hard time and loose a job its a fact of life.
The sky will still be blue the next day and all of this fluff will just become a foot note in someones thesis on stupidity in this era.
so I am being objective on my opinion by the way :)
personal peace with something. I've also had a very frustrating time with finding work in academia after many departments doing the work I specialised in having their funding cut, probably in line with a decreasing govt interest in public health.
dressing this up as some kind of cod-philosopy is absolute balls though. Even from a psychological sense. Understanding the systems that act upon us is essential in some people; while it's true that there are those who'd rather not know (and they're the ignorance is bliss types), others need to have some sense of locus of control. If everyone thought like you we'd be even more fucked than we are now.
we would just evolve. If fat can be cut then it should we are all afterall paying for it. (I have worked in the public sector)
Oh god not evolutionary psychology. It works for physical traits but culture and personal psychology overrides it every step of the way.
It's as if you're assuming that something semi-magical (in this case, evolutionary psych, which is as good as magic) will always come along to get us out of any scrapes. it can't, it won't, and thing can and will get worse.
Sorry to get OTT here, but as an example, it's this kind of thinking that allowed the government to push through the NHS reforms earlier this year. When we're paying Virgin top-up fees on our healthcare budgets in 20 years, we'll be wishing that more people spoke up in 2012. or just payed attention to what was going on.
They're supposed to work for us.
IT'S OK GUYS
of saying I've seen the ridiculous waste, theft and people that would not survive in private sector that do nothing all day first hand.
I've seen target setting in the public sector that would make you weep. Ambulance drivers on lower than national wage being formally reprimanded for not getting their vehicle back on the road fast enough because they had to clean the blood out of their cabin (a task that the private, outsourced cleaning company refused to do).
Anecdotal evidence from either side is useless and I've never seen any solid evidence that the private sector provides greater efficiency without sacrificing workers' rights.
it must be comfortable to think within such a nice cosy, bijou mind.
swaddled babies.....the restriction of movement and possibility made them feel comfortable and safe, like their mothers womb I suppose. Its understandable that many wish to return there
"My grandfathers generation seemed to have a much greater sense of community and respect and humility towards the people around them for example".
That's sepia fever. I guarantee that women, black people, homosexuals - to name but a few - were not treated with more respect than now. That would account for more than 50% of the population. Granted, politicians and black & white minstrels probably were assigned more esteem when your grandad was in his pomp.
I'll just tell them how bad things were after the South Sea Bubble
people were not as reliant on technology/artificial support systems then.
Hardyness and self reliance and sturdyness has been 'bred' out of the modern human way of life and ability
I'm glad the bulk of the decision-making about our economy is being conducted by people who live in solid gold houses and wear diamond encrusted hats.
I feel absolutely idiotic!
not get personal :)
voting with your sort of attitude nullifies any advantages that democracy might have
but tell me what in this situation your state of neurotica will achieve that is positive?
you are doing it in cold blood
not better. markets are emotive and your spreading fear.
(when it is more treatable) than later (when all alternative options for treatment are now reduced due to the underlying malaise worsening and worsening during the period of surface calm)
Of course I appreciate that panic will ensue and it would be uncontrolled.....and that a little breathing space to prepare alternatives and coping strategies from our leaders might be a sensible approach.
The problem is when they did maintain surface calm, the have then NOT DONE A SINGLE THING that would in anyway make the reception of the truth more acceptable or the responsess to be less panicky (Apart from not all banks being as likely to all fall over at the same time (well in series anyway)
They have not done anything that would help the country survive despite a collapsed economy.
They have not done anything to enable the truth to be realised in a less panicky way.
THEY are the ones with the power and the media, not me, it is their responsibility to deal with how the truth is recieved not mine, all I can do is point out the misleadingness of the messages and media led discussions
but I can see only harm that can come from the mogadonned discussion regarding the potential scope of the economic crisis, therefore I am compelled to rant.
creates fear that spreads and costs jobs and decreases peoples standard of living. YOU ARE THE 'RECESSION'! ;)
but it's the recession itself- its actual existence- which 'costs jobs and decreases people's standards of living', not some media bogeyman.
people being obsessed with doom. car crash tv type folks fueling a fire. AGAIN JUST MY OPINION.
I have always had a more pessimistic (realistic) view of global economic situation.
just not yours. about anything. you have nothing to say. stop it.
just not yours. you have nothing of worth to say. on anything. shoo.
It's not very nice.
(whatever one of those is?) or glue up his locks (again ?_
Actually I was being rather unfairly mean too, you should tell me off too
i am being called a threat to democracy yet am being told to not have a different opinion at the same time! :)
are not helpful to democracy
Is that it takes everyone's opinions into account. Saying things like, "voting with your sort of attitude nullifies any advantages that democracy might have" is utter bollocks.
just like definitionofitself put a winky laugh when he said i caused the recession.
Its in the post where I (jokingly) accused definitionofitself of being a threat to democracy
causes democracy to become weaker....this is often caused by the media creating misleading/irrelevant debate, rather than more pertinant debate.....of course THEY often encourage and seem to condone the behaviour of the media in this respect, I've always been puzzled at how parties are happy to have the extant debates in public being not the same as those that genuinely seperate the parties policies.
Is that it can (largely) publish what it wants.
except erm.....when it causes harm or inpinges on the freedom of others......then you have to define 'harm' and 'freedom'
why not all druks legal? or to be more taboo, why have any censorship (see garry glitter)? ...because of reasons that we decide need to be legislated for.
The press is not allowed to show certain pictures or publish certain things......who decides this? - the law, is the law infallable? no, the legal system is not as intractable on this as papal infallability.
so erm....yes you are right, but then so was what I said.
some things are more important than others, and 'which' things varies according to the circumstance and what is gained.
To do what I wanna do
And I wanna get loaded
And I wanna have a good time
next time we have a beer.
i dont even ahve shoes that keep the rain out
Well played, Tories. Well played.
there is much more comfort in the idea of the Tories being arch chessmasters, carefully coordinating each media calamity to further their lizard interests, than a group of bubble-grown cretins stumbling from one horribly managed crisis to the next