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The new HBO Judd Apaptow produced show. Anyone catch the first episode?
It was really, really, REALLY fucking odd
American sites I follow have been live blogging it, doing post show discussions, essays about it, just completely huge coverage. It looks like an indie Sex and the City. I'd be interested to see it.
which i'm pretty sure i didn't enjoy but for some reason i've started watching this. So far i would say its shit and i hate everyone in it.
Definitely some good bits, but I felt kind of uncomfortable throughout. The scene of her boyfriend trying to bum her made my skin crawl.
Made me feel ill
I really enjoyed not enjoying it.
but she (Lena Dunham) sounds like she has just about the right level of self-awareness to make it not seem too self-obsessed. Or at least, self-obsessed in a way that's self-critical.
There were some good moment *This doesn't taste like Twix* is still making me giggle, but overall it just left me confused.
1st episode though innit. placesetting
(I have Sky) or are people illegally downloading it?
I'm not sure if I'll like it or not. I'm really divided on how much twee/indie/slacker I can take for stuff like this - Miranda July makes me utterly furious but I really fancy that new Whit Stilman film.
from what I've heard of it.
Not on UK TV yet but I imagine Sky Atlantic will show it at some point.
but loved this.
girls are hot!
on an HBO tip: Veep starts on Sunday!!!!!!
will look into this
ive heard it remains consistently good aswell.
i think i'm going to enjoy this show enough to feel superior to people who don't get it
I fell like me and Lena Dunham are pretty much BFFs.
Full on laugh out loud brilliant
Good write-up on the AVClub this week: http://www.avclub.com/articles/all-adventurous-women-do,73003/
it's quite funny and i laughed and i really quite like it but i feel like i shouldn't. also my friend said that i'm like that hannah girl but i think it's just because i'm called hannah and all of my pals are hotter than i am.
It made massively uncomfortable viewing with my gf though. I'm worried I'm far too like the super nice wet guy.
This mumbling ironic shit is really what our generation is all about, isn't it?
but isn't that a pretty fair representation of the kind of middle-class parent-sponsored hipster world these characters are living in?
but this has got considerably better in the last 2 episodes.
Waiting for it to go wrong...
Oh yeah, there it goes, massively wrong.
Does it help me understand women? I think it might.
2 is still the winner though. Even funnier on a second viewing
one thing: the recaps before hand are embarrassingly out of tone with the show, told a pal to watch it and he didn't make it past the previously ons, it cant be that difficult to make it not look like the oc.
I thought this line just came across as creepy but I guess it works
but the guy ruined it by saying 'thats what my friends told me to say' adfterwards or something. I think she thought it was creepy aswell.
and was like 'omg this is a real song? wtf wtf!!!!'
As they're made up of SNL writers/actors.
If anything it makes me like Akon even more for having a laugh at his own expense.
I know who they are. I fancy them (not Akon)
She sounded English at first but less so as it has gone on. I suppose she just picked up an accent from being abroad or it's affected or something.
Overall, I think it's pretty good. Deliciously awkward sex scenes.
Its getting better as it goes along.
The english girl's acting is not convincing enough. The abortion story was funny at times with 'you throw a good abortion' but was pretty shit really. And if she was actually booked in for an abortion, she'd definitely be pregnant so would be fucked if she started bleeding and wouldn't be happy that she was bleeding as that means her insides are messy.
I want to watch that Baggage show they were talking about.
I got teary at the end of ep 3. Dunno why. It just touched me. I guess its a friendship love thing teamed with that song.
wahey, i'm having a miscarriage! let's fuck
It didn't make any sense at all and she wouldn't be happy about it as she said she wants loads of kids in the future as thats probably gonna fuck her up.
I'm pretty certain that wasn't a miscarriage, if it was...
So we are saying she is supposed to be English?
so if she was pregnant and was bleeding, its not her period. I think it was meant to be a miscarriage. Could be wrong though.
I think she's meant to be English. She's just really rigid and its like she's reading it off an autocue and she's not very good at it.
With medical care that you are paying for you can just book and go, like whatsherface and the STD test. Jessa is pretty lax, maybe misread a test or just missed her period and then booked in for the abortion.
I don't know why I care so much but I do. She's the worst character anyway.
Oddly, it seems to be the case that you don't have to provide any solid evidence of your pregnancy before you go in for an abortion so that part could well be true.
I remember in the pilot they mentioned that she is English.
Thats not how it works here though, is it? You'd be wasting a lot of peoples time if you turned up for an abortion and you haven't even got a baby inside you? Am I being really stupid here? I dont know but it was a bit too unrealistic and not appropriate for me. I'm pretty sure you can't just phone up for an abortion before checking how far along you are beforehand etc
They refer you to the abortion clinic and then you get a scan to confirm how far along you are/if you're actually pregnant when you go for the thing. (I went to one with a friend) I remember finding it weird that up until then all she had to go on was three positive pregnancy tests which she didn't even show to the doctor. I wonder how frequently people go in for abortions and aren't even pregnant..
Like you could go in and get the scan then get whisked straight off for an abortion? Crazy. Americans be crazy.
Just seems an odd short story line but I get why they did it. I hope they don't start cramming all these womanly issues in just cos they can and thats what women have to deal with every day. More awkward sex and interviews I reckon.
and haven't got round to watching the newest two. But I feel inclined to like it because of the absurd amount comments on messageboards which completely miss the point, that this is maybe a programme with some nuance, and just complain about how entitled the main characters are.
More exciting input to come!
Incredibly uncomfortable (especially as a male) but still great! More updates to come (after the pub)!
I think someone may have given Lena Dunham an STD at some point though! She seems pretty hung up on that (I hope the next ep moves away from that!)!
there's something very genuine and raw about the way the characters are portrayed, even the comedic moments seem quite natural and unforced which makes the show overall more appealing to me.
Then I watched the next two episodes.
Really enjoyed it. Will watch again.
Here endeth my analysis.
apart from being focused on GIRLS, a totally different age group and having a totally different tonal and comedic approach.
not sure about the last point there.
this isn't anything like skins really. I don't see where you got the comparison other than that georgiabeth has expressed an opinion that you'd like top now steal and copy.
The Skins people are all YEAH SEX WITH EVERYONE, DRUGS ALL THE TIME, WE'RE SO FUCKING COOL ETC, and thats not whats happening here. This is more real and awkward and I think thats whats refreshing about it. I can genuinely see myself in her shoes going 'don't stick that in my arse' or whatever.
Also you assumed i was pitching it as a negative, which is also wrong.
I think there's still something stiflingly self-aware about the entire thing, but that might be the American sheen that sometimes makes me generally uncomfortable to watch.
Or you know, we could shout in capitals.
and you're only thing was to link it back to something someone else has already said to have some kind of back up, thats all that paragraph was about.
If its not a negative, why say *ducks*? Like no ones going to agree with you as most people disliked Skins on here and have liked this so...ohhh wait! you were just trolling. Okay. Not to worry.
I didn't shout at you in capitals (??) I was emphasizing what the Skins show is about where they're all loud, in your face and party hard kind of people. I think you've been off this forum for too long and don't know how to read it.
I genuinely agree with gb that it feels self-aware, and the only thing I can think of that's had massive acclaim for being 'real' but still isn't quite there for me is...skins. It's not about appropriating a point of view for the sake of it.
I said *ducks* because... well here we are now. So...solid enough prediction. And I'm absolutely not trolling. I don't personally don't find the dialogue to feel truly 'real', I kinda think it plays on whimsy a little, almost what people wish was a real way of talking/acting.
Which is what I meant by American sheen, too.
The core of your post is aiming bile in my direction, which is fine. But I stand by my point - no other series that I can think of has been praised for 'getting it right' when I can't help but feel that it's just a little wide of the mark.
Feel free to keep up the snottyness though, it'll make for a reasoned, adult debate.
I think the show is good, not great. Which is actually what i thought of the first season of Skins too. That's not to say that Girls won't end up being a lot better in my eyes. Just not yet.
I can see hardly any American sheen that you're talking about. Care to explain? Its not even got the look of an Americany glossy comedy like P&R or community.
IMO, the dialogue and situations are more real than Skins and people will relate to that stuff a lot more than Skins, or any of the big American sheen comedies that are around at the moment. This is why Seinfeld and Curb are so popular is because people can see themselves getting into those situations. The shoddy acting from Jessa could improve a lot to make you believe it more but Hannah has it so right in this. And she is the main character and how she reacts and how she relates with the others is what people want to see.
The camera angles, the lighting, the editing...it's got a glaze on it that barks 'indie film', like someone's read a textbook from the sundance awards on doing pastel-shaded real life. Which would be fine if the dialogue delivery had the chops to match. And I think it falls down there *at present*. IMO.
but what's this racist chat that's floating about?
it seems the "controversy" literally seems to be that there aren't any (major?) characters who aren't white. As I said, I haven't seen it, but this seems pretty mental given that all tv shows are basically like this. Here's a really good article I just read about it: http://www.vice.com/read/girls-is-racist-everything-is-racist-everything-is-the-worst-girls-is-still-the-best
but a big part of it as said below is that when something is being hailed as like progressive and feminist-friendly or whatever, it does kinda open it up to more criticism of the stuff it gets wrong (moreso than something that everyone assumes is gonna be full of standard regressive cliches), and i don't think that's unreasonable... i do think it would be unfair to brand lena dunham 'a racist', but i'm not sure anybody's done that
of underrepresentation and tokenism (tho the first episode did have a couple of really poorly judged moments; if you're gonna do another representation of an all-white NYC, probably best just not to bother including the background computer-geek asian and the shouty homeless black man, eh?)
i guess the reason it's getting more flak than yer standard whitewashed NYC is because of the initial articles hailing it as kinda radical and exciting for gender stuff or whatever, and y'know feminism has always had big race issues so it's understandable there being some pushback to the latest 'look at this awesome representation of women!' with 'er, *white* women'
by tweeting "What really bothered me most about Precious was that there was no representation of ME."
I mean, that is quite funny, but yeah very unprofessional and unhelpful in this situation.
That article I posted up post^ was saying that all tv is racist, and that Sex and the City and Bored to Death are more or less about the same thing as Girls, and haven't faced anything close to the criticism this has. Also about how people shouldn't really be expecting so much from a TV show.
But yeah, I think you may be right about why this in particular is getting heat
The 'sex' scene with Shoshanna was pretty much the most uncomfortable bit of TV ever. Adam is a massive bellend as well.
Still great though!
I like that guy
I guess that the confrontation with her boss was supposed to be humorous but it really made me cringe.
just couldn't take it.
the break up stuff was all a bit too close to the bone for me. cringed all over the place.
I have now seen the first three, and I really, really enjoyed it. I want to do back to brookyln
Alison Williams (who plays Marnie) is the daughter of NBC News Anchor (and occasional 30 rock contributor) Brian Williams. Also she looks a bit like Natalie Portman... sometimes
Brian Williams went to the same comedy/acting college in Chicago as Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, Will Arnett etc. which is why he's in 30rock alot
weird that he went from that to reading the news when the rest all went on to be comedy superstars. Didn't Dan Aykroyd come from that too?
It's pretty renowned!
to watch something after having waded through the fetid hype sludge
it's just...good. funny. well written. really good. i could watch lena dunham for hours...she's brilliant. there are lots of beautiful little nuances. i enjoy it a lot so far. that's it.
no more, no less. just good.
i think it's almost sexist to expect that a show about women should be forced to carry its entire gender and the world on its shoulders, when a similar show about some guys pals just dicking around and shooting the shit and trying to work out their lives wouldn't get the first sniff of a 'YES BUT WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN' blog post.
man. you women got it tuff.
I fucking love it
you could be bombarded by blankets of blog bluster, and then simply watch the show until all of it falls away and becomes weirdly irrelevant. i find it hard to reconcile the hype with the show i'm actually watching. they seem so separate as to not actually be linked at all.
if the hype is truly separated you don't have to worry about it? I just think its a really well put together and realistic show. I haven't read extensively about the "hype" though.
i think my point is that the hype is irrelevant. which is a round of thumbs up, indeed.
similar shows like bored to death (which was great imo) never got any of the criticism girls has. But I don't think that means that girls should just get a free pass y'know? i guess i'm glad there has been this wave of criticism, because hopefully those working in TV might take notice; it's utterly crazy how whitewashed film and tv is, and i hope things will start to change. I also find it hilariously predictable how all these white people are super defensive of Dunham (a stranger)and i recommend that they calm their shit, cus let's face it, POC have every right to be pissed (generally). my sister and i were talking about this earlier, and i can't help but feel people are just searching for reasons to excuse Lena because it makes them feel uncomfortable about themselves and actually having to think about their attitudes. Hey other white people - it's okay! we've been born into a shitty system of privilege! BUT we can still try to break out of it by recognising it and seeking change! acknowledging it doesn't make you a bad person!!!!
(this has been a ramble)
I linked that article upthread, thought it was fairly spot-on
from all standings. pretty sure brooklyn's a pretty diverse place despite gentrification as well so as far as i'm concerned that's a totally invalid argument.
But then I realised that would be sort of admitting there is some discussion to be had. I love the show I don't care.
I love The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air too, hey wait I can't remember a major white character in that *throws arms up in air*
whatever, i'm enjoying the show, i just find the misplaced defensiveness of its fans pretty hilarious.
is that there's nothing inherently individually 'racist' about writing a tv show that happens to be about white people, or liking a tv show that happens to be about white people, but in the context of an incredibly racist and whitewashed tv industry it's perfectly reasonable to have discussions about racism and whitewashing as dominant media trends, and perfectly reasonable to sometimes focus those discussions on specific examples of said whitewashing (particularly ones that are getting lots of hype in 'progressive' quarters), and kinda dumb to get defensive/annoyed about such discussions even being had, and *especially* dumb to go 'BUT IT'S FINE WHEN BLACK PEOPLE DO IT!!!'
is EXACTLY how I feel everytime I go back to norwich
don't worry about what you read. Either watch it and enjoy it or swich it off if you don't.
Peace be with you.
I sort of hated it a bit. The main girl is likeable and funny but I didn't sympathise at all with her plight regarding being cut off by her parents and wasn't really sure if I was supposed to.
The girl with the overly-nice boyfriend is also likeable enough but the ambiguously accented posh girl can fuck the fuck off, I cannot stand her. I won't be watching any more of it unless she disappears, I just can't put myself through that level of rage with a fictional character on a weekly basis.
But they are building towards a bigger storyline with her so probably best not to watch any more. I hate her too but I think you're supposed to.
Weirdly I can completely understand why people hate this show but personally I love it, its normally the sort of thing I'd absolutely despise but there's something really enjoyable about it.
I can (and do) enjoy hateable characters for sure. She makes me angry in a way which isn't within the world of the show though.
basically lena dunham is really really watchable but the rest of the characters are a bit meh. i think it's funniest when just doing the casual faux-realist one-liner dialogue thing rather than the slightly forced 'awkward humour' setups
because they definitely aren't. Seems pretty aware these are very flawed characters
i think the Adam/Hannah stuff is easily the best part of the show. I wish people would stop blabbing on about not liking the characters. You dont have to like them. They are not portrayed as likable.
The guy who reviews who Girls ofr the AV Club wnet off on one in the comments section about misogynistic posts...
like for a while I wasn't sure if it was working but by the end once we've pretty much seen all the characters try and largely fail at their own personal ambitions it worked really well. If there was any clearer indication that Dunham is critiquing something she herself has witness a lot I guess this show is just not for you.
anyway i love Todd. and Girls
worth a read!
AVC > DiS for pop culture discussion
And all the internet controversy about it just shows how non-representative of the wider world people immersed in internet culture are.
if that's what you mean?
just the right mix of comedic moments and well thought out character development. Also one of the few times I've actually rooted for Hannah and Adam's relationship.
I like how Charlie has finally grown a pair since finding Hannah's journal, Adams character has obviously developed a lot now we've seen him out of his flat and with a shirt on and Ray who seemed kind of pretentious in his first appearance with the opium tea has become a lot more likeable.
I know the show will never really focus on them given its title but its kind of a shame as they're all well written enough to be central characters in their own right.
so maybe not
Not sure how I feel about that, he'll always be Troy
he could work pretty well but it does feel a tiny bit like network tinkering (i.e he's not white OR a girl)
does seem like the easiest way to silence all the critics. They should have gone with Danny Glover instead, that would've really thrown them.
Haven't read a single article on it though and I don't plan to. Definitely don't see why anyone would need to, I don't think I've ever read a critical appraisal of a TV show come to think of it.
she can play something this manic but that she's also Peggy's totally straight laced hipster friend on Mad Men. it's something good.
the fact she can play both pretty comfortably is a pretty strong showing
when Shoshanna was legging it away down the road and the guy was shouting SHOSHANNAAAAAAAAA?
Although it came through with possibly the most character development of any episode so far.
Would really like to see more of Shoshanna, I'd really hate to see her become that character who they never bother to create a proper storyline for.
I could barely watch, or more accurately, listen to him. What the hell was his accent doing? Awful from start to finish. Just because he's Judd Apatow's new best mate.
i didnt even realise it was him. thought that whole bit was pretty funny. i am happy being in the minority.
adam to be continues to be amazing. thought his monologue was great. thought his outburst at the motorist was great.
but i couldn't help but wonder 'what happened to shoshanna and ray?' thoroughout the whole episode.
especially during his rant after the glass gets knocked over but apart from that he was really funny.
like it felt like a skit or something. I dont really like when the show does those outlandish scenes which bear no resemblance to reality. I also found the last scene a bit too indie-schmindie.
about wanting to be balls deep whilst his mashups play in the background/
is the scene in an earlier episode where Hannah tries to blackmail her boss. These kind of scenes feel like theyre sitcom scenes or just funny ideas they tried to jam into the show even though they dont really fit tonally.
some of the sex scenes with adam and hannah could just as easily have been completely wrong tonally but they ended up being the centre of the best relationship on the show. you've got to be able to forgive a few swings and misses, no?
though I agree to an extent they can be a bit clunky, I certainly don't think these characters-as-humans wouldn't be capable of doing things like that? That's partly what O'Dowd's "you're just rich girls in Brooklyn" rant was about wasn't it?
The kiss felt a bit odd though, not really what I was expecting from the show, but I think this too may have been a joke about other shows/O'dowd's character.
This was maybe the weakest of the series but it had good moments
he has this odd mix of antagonism and self awareness that seems to lead to him constantly trying to compensate for the fact that he's so incredibly awkward and clearly quite troubled.
Shame. Not as good as last week's, but then, that might have been the series highlight.
that these episodes need to be an hour long. I don't feel like they get through enough in the half hour they're allocated. Like Hannah just got this new job and they barely touched upon it in the episode. Shoshanna needs to be developed more, she's clearly the best character. Although Adam's really grown on me; to start with I thought he was a total d-bag but now I find his eccentricities really funny and it's now clearer that Hannah's frustration with him is more to do with the fact that they aren't actually going out as opposed to him being a dick.
but yeah I agree
did they not show us Shoshanna's date
I went into it expecting to be horribly disappointed because I thought there was no way that they'd be able to tie up all of the loose ends of the season in half an hour, but they managed it somehow.
I went looking for the music in the ending credits but it turns out it hasn't been released yet which is pretty annoying.
that's partly why it was really, really great!
But the finale was great.
Adam has nudged ahead of Shoshanna in Best Character Stakes. She's still great though
he was on cracking form in the finale
Have really enjoyed it. Has it's flaws obviously, some clanging dialogue, uneven tone, slightly obvious in it's open-endedness... But, on the other hand, good soundtrack, some brilliant characters (Adam especially), some genuinely moving moments and some solid laughs. One of the better things I've seen in a while, for sure.