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if not, do you think that believing in ghosts is as irrational as believing in god?
I don't think believing in God is irrational, but yeah, I'd say it's on a par with believing in ghosts.
Know a couple of people who claim to have ghosts in their houses.
Never seen one myself, and am naturally suspicious of this kind of stuff, but we're talking people who are neither mental nor known for bullshitting.
who swear down they've seen ghosts. I can't exlpain how they saw what they saw when they've described their experiences to me, but I just don't think it's possible.
I mean, think about it. People claim to see ghosts stood in Victorian clothing or what not. Clothing. Ghostly clothing. It's a an inanimate object. If we can see ghostly clothing, then why don't we see other objects randomly ghosting about? A ghost pan on top of the gas cooker; a ghost array of garden furniture. You get the idea.
I just don't think it's plausible, which leads me to believe that it's not a ghost that somebody has seen, but some mental-trickery or hallucination.
I think believing in ghosts is only one step away from believing that we each have a soul, which is a perfectly rational thing to believe, whereas believing in God is many steps away from believing we each have a soul, therefore believing in ghosts is more rational.
is a bit icky.
everything is a result of physical phenomena mate. just because it's not something we understand doesn't mean you should start using spiritualist explanations
I must have missed the memo.
another great reply from one of the true intellects of our generation
The one thing science can't give a satisfactory explanation for.
but i can't help believing in them. i would kind of like to see one, despite being absolutely terrified of them (see bedwetting thread).
loads of people have seen ghosts. if as many people had seen god (or had some kind of god experience) as have seen ghosts i'd be more inclined to believe in god.
if you've ever had this then I'm sure you'd agree this could easily explain people's ghost sightings. I can't describe how terrifying and real some of the things I've 'seen' are, I defo think this kind of thing goes a long way to explaining stuff.
and I agree that it probably accounts for loads.
but can hear something in the room and you know that you have to get up and confront investigate it, but you cant, so you have an unpleasent time thinking that something is going to happen but you cant move.
only happens rarely these days.
Have been absolutely positive that I'm going to be attacked by giant glowing flying jellyfish/ninjas/small unseen scuttly things at various points. Seems 100% real (way moreso than realistic dreams) at the time, really scary.
But last year I had a moment where I think I saw the ghost of Charles Bronson in a hotel room in Cardiff. I've since upgraded to "undecided".
it's not necessarily irrational to believe in god though. Cos y'know you can be brainwashed as a kid and it can be very rational to believe in god in that context.
Ghosts are shit though. There's just no way.
from years of staring into spooky corners in an effort to face those fears and seeing nothing, I can say I'm fairly positive there are no such thing.
only Fool would beleive. ghosts exits.... (he;p me i am hauNTred by ghost of homresexaeul..)
ive had a few freaky encounters myself. The house i grew up in is haunted. Everyone who ever stayed said the same.
Dont really want to go into detail though, as it makes me sound a bit mental.
People extrapolate the evidence at hand. They're in a place that feels a bit eerie, it's night-time, there are some odd noises, they see something out of the corner of their eye and suddenly, they've seen a ghost.
It's an emotional reaction, and one that's understandable, but it doesn't mean that ghosts are real. It just means that humans are incredibly susceptible to suggestion.
I don't know if there's been an experiment like this, but it'd be really interesting to do a sort of thing where you sent two groups of people into a reputedly haunted house, one knowing full well its reputation and the other not knowing a thing.
(i think?? maybe creaky can expand/explain properly)
mostly drawing symbols/creating spells for effects and then relying on human susceptibility to suggestion/random occurrence and perceiving it as intended effect of spell/symbol/incantation.
i find it kind of scary because i am probably more easily influenced than others and could probably find myself falling into that mindset
it also involves identifying susceptability, that is not yet scientifically explainable, so there is a lot of stuff that can be done that does not have an everyday explanation (but that is merely because an everyday explanation has not been put about.)
other things also alter states and enable even more susceptability (induce absolute belief)
Sometimes states can be altered by potions, or ritual, but at other times peoples states can be altered by events or unusual trains of thoughts or by deliberation (e.g. meditation) or by hypnosis (e.g. incence + murmurations of incomprehensibility in a pattern (e.g. mass) or by music or other)
(and for good preditor avoidance reasons)
I think that the most noticable thing about people getting jittery is their own hackles rising, most humans are not used to it, and that in itself actually tells your brain that something else is there, so if your hackles rise but you can rationalise that there is no one there, then your brain tells you there is something unseen there.
Temperature changes - humans who start to analyse the ambiant temperatuire with their body (you cant do this without the motivation) experiance a change in temperature as their assumed temprature is replaced with their actual sudden concious measurements, i.e. if you start to get jittery and look for changes, the very act of doing this may cause you to percieve a drop in temperature.
So unused to silence, in really quiet hanted house, hear a noise or detect something you normally do not listen out for, causes hackles to rise temperature to apparently drop.
because you could find out much more about the past when you are in this frame of mind
of ghosts in the middle of the day in a shop or something or do they only appear at night in spooky surroundings?
because i'm not a complete momo
for the brain to actually take in and make sense of all the sensory information that it is bombarded with every second it would take a huge amount of computational power, so rather than do this it has a self-generated 'model' of the surroundings which is updated by bits of new information.
So given that our picture of the world is a product of our own brains and not a physical representation of what's actually there, it's easy to see how this picture could be confounded by fear, expectation, hallucinogenic drugs etc.
It's all about the human brain being hard-wired for pattern recognition. There is an overwhelming amount of shite that it has to filter out every single nanosecond of it's waking life. It's inevitable that there is going to be some freaky shit that sneaks through the filter convincingly. It is basically millions of neurons firing. If they make you see it... you saw it, whether it's there or not.