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and thought of you as soon as I saw the article.
I want to be sympathetic but she admits she didn't know for years parmesan wasn't suitabe for vegetarians and then gets angry with restaurants for making the same mistake.
It's unfortunate, awareness needs to be raised and the change in the law will hopefully help but there's absolutely no need to castigate restaurants for a simple error.
Just utterly unreasonable to get pissed off at someone for not being an expert on exactly how a certain type of cheese is made.
Whatever your job is, you're going to make assumptions and generalisations about certain bits of it you're less clear on. I doubt most non-vegetarians have any reason to inquire into exactly how parmesan is made so they're logically going to assume that, like all other cheeses, it's suitable for vegetarians but not vegans.
Given that most chefs and restaurant owners have no reason to be experts in how cheese is made, it's utterly irrational to assume they will be.
Loads of cheeses aren't.
I'm not disputing that it's a tricky one to know about and I can imagine this mistake could be made but your stance seems to be that it's ridiculous to even think anyone else would know if the author of this article doesn't?
Raymond Blanc clearly doesn't agree with you, if you read the bottom of the article: "Various forms of vegetarianism are the norm, and as a good restaurateur it is our duty to adapt and respond to these new needs and to our guests' rising expectations."
No one would take that risk with nuts due to the effects of that allergy and they don't by saying they can't be sure of no nuts in anything, so maybe they should make the same points about vegetarianism?
I don't think he's the norm.
At the end of the day, some people are working on an assumption that's happens to be wrong. Change it.
If they were wilfully putting it going *yeah, fuck the veggie cunts* it would be worth some vitriol. But this for me is more, UR DOIN IT RONG, rather than the full on aggression in the article, about something she, a vegetarian who should be far more clued up on the matter, didn't know either
I don't like the tone of Paul's suggestion that's completely unreasonable to expect anyone at a restaurant to know.
I'm not trying to be awkward or argumentative - it's just the facts (as borne out by the article and threads about this subject on DiS before) are that most people don't know that Parmesan isn't suitable for vegetarains. Including most restaurants.
So bascially we're talking a consumer choice issue on the one hand and a significantly health and safety issue on the other - I might be wrong but I think a restauranteur who doesn't identify the possibility of nuts in a product is liable to a manslaughter charge.
Rather than disagreeing, Raymond Blanc actually proves my point and provides a case in point of best practice. He'd understandably been making the error for years but, when it was made clear to him, he corrected his menu.
This is exactly the right thing to do and the reason why it'd be good if there was an effort from vegetarian organisations to make restaurants more aware of how parmesan is made.
Obviously a restaurant that had been informed that parmesan was not suitable for vegetarians and did nothing is negligent and indulging in poor customer service and misleading advertising. But it doesn't change the fact that most restuaranteurs, like Blanc, won't know until someone tells them.
I clearly wasn't making a fatuous analogy of death vs. preference so don't start implying I was.
Blanc doesn't prove your point: he is clearly saying he should have been proactive and aware of the situation before it happened. You seem to be saying no one should care until they're told.
As I say above, I'm not defending the article's tone, which is obviously argumentative and irritating because it's meant to generate readers.
I'm also not saying I'd expect anyone in a restaurant to know this: I'm countering your attitude which seems to be, "I find this woman annoyingly aggressive so I'm going to adopt a contrary position as usual and just up the hyperbole of the other side to ridiculous levels".
And I'm not saying nobody should care until they're told. I'm saying nobody CAN care until they know there's something to care about.
If you're acknowledging you wouldn't expect anyone in a restaurant to know this, I'm not too sure where your grounds for contention are.
but other cheeses are?!
and instead use vegetarian stuff.
Why not just make stuff like that?
But you know what I actually mean. I doubt the legal definition was to stop the cheese being vegetarian and more likely someone asked how the cheese was made and put it down that way.
Also, people are happy to have sparkling wine instead of Champagne and they still call it champagne, much as they'll call a Vax or a Henry a hoover.
I'd guess that at many of the mid-to-low level restaurants you'd end up with "Italian style cheese (v)" on the menus, but at the top end, I suspect some places are still going to prefer proper Parmesan simply for the name, even if there's reasonable substitutes.
The vegetarian pasta cheese here is pretty good
They're actually cooked in fish stock so you have to ask specifically for them to make you up a Miso version for it to be vegetarian. This is fucking crassly shit.
It's still strange for a place to have one option that isn't meat but actually have it meat-based unless you ask. I've not seen a big sign saying 'NOT VEGETARIAN'.
I guess the question to you is as a rampant anti-vegetarian do you give a shit if it's in fish or miso broth or would you be unlikely to order the vegetable dumplings because, y'know, you'd expect them to be some limp veggie shit?
So can vegetarians drink Red Bull? I still don't really know what Taurine is.
Does it come from bulls? Kinda like how Percy Pigs are called Percy Pigs because of the pork gelatin
Especially after you didn't reply to my post by the creator of Percy Pigs saying it wasn't the case
Which apparently you aren't doing as you're still peddling something you've made up as fact
and I thought you were amazing.
Fine, I was wrong. But I don't think it's a totally random conclusion to come to as far as guesses go. Especially if taurine is made from bulls.
That without designing a sweet or a character, people went *let's make a sweet in the shape of a pig from pig gelatin and call it Percy Pig*
It's just called taurine because it was discovered in oxen
can you please admit that my Percy Pig theory is not completely daft?
I love how the same debate can have a completely different tone because it's happening on a Monday instead of a Friday.
I'm going to assume trolling because I can't fathom someone being so wilfully stupid
please don't stop now
that we should know where our food comes from.
Or is that Gordon Ramsey?
Their diet version, which has 8 calories in it but is advertised as being 'high energy'. CALORIES ARE A UNIT OF ENERGY. GRRRRRHHHHHHHHAAAAAHHH
Does diet Red Bull actually make you more alert? How can it possibly work?
It's irksome/depressing just how typed up in knots people are about their weight and dieting and all that kinda shit that any mention of the 'calories' has somehow become shorthand for 'YOU ARE FAT, EAT LESS YOU FAT PRICK'.
I think I've just unwittingly surmised my DiSing history more eloquently than even the most carefully constructed Lucien diagram could ever have done
*/With/ my cement (to make mortar or concrete).
Are we counting sand as aggregate?
And serve it with a pork pie
I just posted it cos the sign makes me smile every time I see it. Not really sure why though.
Added to the stereotype image of hippies and hipsters
AS IF a Vegan would drink Fosters anyway
*I think that line of...
I use hard veggie goats cheese generally
so she's a vegetarian. says she didn't know about this issue. but that the discussion over the issue has been raging online for years and the Vegetarian Society stepped in at some point to campaign over it. So it's clearly the fault of every restaurant she's ever been in, that she didn't know anything about this, instead of, for example, her fault for not checking for herself.