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should we disestablish the CofE?
It would cost a lot of money, upset a lot of people, there is a lot of ambivalence about it, it would use up a huge amount of parliament's time, most people think establishment's fairly benign anyway, most studies show religious minorities actually support establishment...
is buses carrying secular advertising. Yeah, according to last published figures 72% of the UK identifies as Christian. There's some way to go yet.
religion isn't my cup of tea, but disestablishing the church because some people don't like it is stamping all over freedom of expression/religion.
Because it doesn't sound like you do.
completely remove all government funding/involvement?
I imagine the Darwin thing comes from the naturalist, not the place.
The use of 'dude' straight after and the slightly odd concatenation with the name of a scientist (whose name is also a place) makes it a tough one to be sure of if you don't realise the link to all of her many usernames.
basically making the church no longer the official state religion e.g. laws that require schools and prisons to have chaplains, bishops in the house of lords etc.
and all reforms have to go through the minister of ecclesiastical affairs. A lot of Danes would argue their church-state model actually keeps religion out of politics cause the church can't claim to be speaking on behalf of its members (80% of the population).
welsh church act 1914 ftw.
i reckon england should as well.
I had high hopes for that thread
Are they clinging to their crosses,
F. E. Smith,
Where the Breton boat-fleet tosses,
Are they, Smith?
Do they, fasting, trembling, bleeding,
Wait the news from this our city?
Groaning "That's the Second Reading!"
Hissing "There is still Committee!"
If the voice of Cecil falters,
If McKenna's point has pith,
Do they tremble for their altars?
Do they, Smith?
Russian peasants round their pope
Hear about it all, I hope,
Don't they, Smith?
In the mountain hamlets clothing
Peaks beyond Caucasian pales,
Where Establishment means nothing
And they never heard of Wales,
Do they read it all in Hansard --
With a crib to read it with --
"Welsh Tithes: Dr. Clifford answered."
In the lands where Christians were,
F. E. Smith,
In the little lands laid bare,
Smith, O Smith!
Where the Turkish bands are busy
And the Tory name is blessed
Since they hailed the Cross of Dizzy
On the banners from the West!
Men don't think it half so hard if
Islam burns their kin and kith,
Since a curate lives in Cardiff
Saved by Smith.
It would greatly, I must own,
Soothe me, Smith!
If you left this theme alone,
For your legal cause or civil
You fight well and get your fee;
For your God or dream or devil
You will answer, not to me.
Talk about the pews and steeples
And the cash that goes therewith!
But the souls of Christian peoples...
Chuck it, Smith!
we should replace all the churches with 'churches to atheism', such as a 100ft tower made of fossils.
we should sacrifice AC Grayling to Baal
then i'm all in for that bro \m/
such as the archbishop of canterbury being a progressive voice that has quite a reasonable amount of weight in society. Also until christianity naturally loses its relevance to british society you might as well endorse it in its moderate, progressive form rather than in a way deligitimising that form to an extent, and thus bringing it down to the level of the small minded middle englander churches that are the norm, or at least were where i grew up.
So actually i'm gonna say i dunno. Maybe no?
can't see why there shouldn't be an official state religion. 72% identify as Christian, strong majority.
despite their levels of religiosity.
I think that a lot of British people see Britain as having 'Christian values'. I think that's by and large a good thing really.
You're still not giving an argument for why we should retain the estabishment of the CofE.
Also, very few countries have state religions these days, however many people identify themselves as being religious: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_religion
in terms that results in 72%.
Christians vary SOOOO much, and in ways that is relevant to whether they are actually christian,
E.G. humility, compassion, mercy, forgiveness
............. vs .............
pride, prejudice, vengeful, unforgiving
but i turned off when an audience member said people on benefits shouldn't be allowed pets and because its such a shit show
said that we should all voluntarily give loads of money to the church in honour of the Queen's Jubilee. Amazing.
i normally associate you with a more reactive posting stlye. just an observation :)
then hell yes.
How many people here are practising Christians anyway?
She lives in England (I think).
The Church Of Scotland has never been a state/established church, so it's not analogous to The Church of England.
Also, there are actually no proper non-christian religions or atheists: eg you're either a protestant muslim or a catholic muslim, or a protestant atheist or a catholic atheist.
I thought that was the reason the census religion question gets such high results. Maybe it's just all the Scottish and Northern Irish ones.
(I was just messin' with the protestant/catholic muslim, protestant/catholic atheist bit re: sectarianism etc.)
well 'atheist, but still Catholic' is pretty common I thoughy. But admittedly the muslim bit confused me somewhat.
So I guess I see why I'd confused ya.
I think there's such a thing as cultural presbyterianism in Scotland though maybe it is dying out. Germany has 'Kulturprotestantismus'
"The Church Of Scotland has never been a state/established church, so it's not analogous to The Church of England" isn't quite accurate.
Although the CoS is not strictly an "established" church, there is reference to it as such by the Scottish Parliament (in the seventeenth century) so it was once definitely regarded as an "established church." Nowadays, (well since 1921) UK law recognises the Church of Scotland as a "national" church and its constitution is acknowledged in the legislation. The Queen has to preserve presbyterianism in Scotland and send a representative to preside at the general assembly and is church of scotland when she is in scotland. So it wasn't properly disestablished and the categories don't quite fit with the kind of establishment-light of the church of scotland...
There's a difference between loosely identifying as a Christian and actually being an active believer.
I always put down Catholic on the census, even though I haven't been in a church (weddings and funerals excepted) for over 20 years, because I still remember my mother's delight when we moved above C of E on the census (meaning that at the previous census more people had responded Catholic than Anglican). Should probably let it go now, there's no way anyone's beating "us" in the forseeable future.
in De Facto. You'd have to remove the Monarchy entirely to have De Jure seperation and that doesn't look like happening anytime soon. Also I would argue that even though the country would laregely identify themselves as christian it was telling that when Cameron made his ill-informed "return to christian values" he came under widespread criticism for politicising his faith. I'm rambling so to conclude: probably should but it really doesn't make a difference.
After the leader's debates they let all the shit parties have a say on BBC News afterwards and there was some guy from the BNP who went *Doesn't matter who you vote for because there'll be Sharia law inside of 30 years FACT*
Yes because state and religion sounds be completely separate.
as a synonym for basic concepts of decency. Being a christian does not make your values any less/more suspect than those of anyone else. The majority of folk do not live 'good' lives because of a belief or fear of a bearded guy in the sky. However, quite a lot of what is often thought of as 'bad' things - intolerance, inequality, jihad, etc - is carried out purely in the name of religion. Religion can't have it both ways.