Boards
So, Argentina and the Falklands.
What do we all think of this? Okay, so they have been under British rule since 1833 - does that make them ours? Well that's obviously a contentious issue.
Personally, I think, being as the residents of the islands themselves consider themselves British and do not believe the Argentinians have any claim to the land then that should be it surely? As the government has said, they will not hold talks with Argentina over the islands unless the residents request it. Otherwise it would be a bit like holding talks with Ireland over Cornwall. Well, not exactly like that but you get what I mean?
Britain has stated that they believe Argentina is taking a colonial stance, because they want to take control of a land that is considered by the residents as owned by another country. That comment is obviously a little hypocritical but like it or not times have changed and we don't run old empires in the world like we used to. In that respect everything has settled. If the falkland islanders wanted independence/be a part of Argentinia I'm sure that would be able to happen.
From a military point of view do the Argentinians have a chance? I would say no. They still operate on the same equipment they used in 1982 and we don't, in-fact we're quite far from that. Numbers/boots on ground could be a problem, but still only a minor one I'm sure. Overall fire power goes to us of course, but you don't really want to bomb the hell out of a bunch of islands you want to keep.
Anyway, thoughts?
Argentina > England
Exhibit A
http://gawker.com/5846473/woman-gets-completely-naked-on-argentinas-dancing-with-the-stars
As tempting as it is
I don't think I can click on that link at work.
Good luck Chris!
^our brave boy :')
we will all be rooting for you
and will cheer when you bag an argie, but if you miss and hit a penguin then we will boo
Ridiculous shit-stirring by Argentina
Given their historical rivalry, surprised that Chile have never similarly tried to lay claim to The Falklands. For the lulz like. As for likely outcome if it did kick off (and bearing in mind that this time there's no military junta to conscript thousands of 18 year olds) here's the respective annual defence spends:
UK 57,424,000,000
Argentina 3,179,000,000
There are loads of unoccupied islands in the British Isles.
If Germany was to ship over a load of people and buy them houses, would that give them a right to demand the territory?
Yes
Well yeah there would be
the difference here is that we have lived in the Falklands for 179 years. Why wait until now to make claim to them?
If Germany came along in 1800 and settled in islands on the british isles and we piped up 180 years later then we'd look a bit stupid really.
is this a serious question?
cause well, if people had been living there for several generations, then yeah.
The Falklands didn't have an indigenous population when the Spanish rocked up.
The Argentinian claim is pretty much based on the idea that if the Falklands had stayed Spanish when Argentina gained independence, then the islands would have been part of the new country. But it's a pretty weak argument, especially considering how the population are now ethnically and culturally British. It's not at all a typical decolonisation issue, just as there's no reason for controversy over Britain looking after the Isle of Man, or the Channel Islands.
There was an interesting article in the Guardian about changing attitudes to the Falklands - how the younger generation are not just disinterested in Argentina's claim, but actively confused as to why their country thought it was at all justified to fight a war over it. I get the feeling it's just one of those cyclical things in Argentina where the government starts banging on about the Malvinas to try and distract from problems at home.
Indeed
Argentina goes bust > followed by a period of large year on year growth > people get happier/get on with their lives > growth plateaus > recently elected Argentine government looks for distraction.
Well quite,
The main reason for the Falklands War was because the deeply unpopular right-wing government needed to shore up support by playing the lazy nationalist card.
AND IN ARGENTINA TOO!
.
LIKE
I automatically assumed your statement was about Thatcher anyway
.
Offer them a trade.
We keep the Falklands, they get Wales.
They already have Patagonia.
lol was thinking 'the scilly isles'
but they're like our sub-sub-tropical jewel in the crown!!!! SCILLIES FOR THE BRITISH
let's have a war
There’s an episode of TV Nation from the early-90s based around this idea.
Before Argentina invaded, British investment and military presence had been scaled back so dramatically that the 1800 or so residents of the Falklands Islands had been campaigning against the UK government’s policies, culminating in a referendum in which they issued a vote of no confidence in the Thatcher administration. It’s thought that the Argentinean invasion was only deemed viable because of the reduction in military presence in the year or two prior to the war, and the perceived anti-UK government attitudes of the islanders.
The TV Nation episode asked the residents of a Welsh village if they’d be willing to vote to become an Argentinean territory – which they did.
I find it confusing anyone cares.
Well if we said we didn't care and Argentina begun to move into the Falklands
then the people who are British there would either have to leave their home or they would have to live under a new government which isn't right. Then there'd probably be some kind of 1700s style uprising and people will die.
or if Argentina didn't care then we wouldn't have a problem.
or secret option number 3 which isn't secret is the current situation and just a load of all boo hoo
So they stay where they are or they move. The world won't end in either case.
History's full of arbitrarily designated bits of land belonging to one country becoming arbitrarily designated to another country. Argentina isn't an oppressive dictatorship by any means so they take their decision. If that happens. Not that Argentina should care any more than we do but we can at least take the moral high ground.
Britain going to war over it again would just be silly and embarrassing for everyone involved.
*So they stay where they are or they move. The world won't end in either case*
Israel has proved things aren't as easy as you suggest.
The Argentine govt. wants sovereignty though rather than moving people in I thought?
Sovereignty will necessitate moving people in
civil servants etc, they will bring their families. Then there will be a question rights; will the British Citizens have the same rights as Argentinians? Where will they live? What currency will be used.
History's full of arbitrarily designated bits of land belonging to one country becoming arbitrarily designated to another country.
Yeah we should always just do whatever they did in the past, they knew best.
Yep - that was EXACTLY my point.
well if it wasn't I don't really understand your point
the logic seems pretty straight to me that if Argentina have no real cultural or historical claim over the island, and the islanders want to remain under British rule, then you can't just say, oh well, it wouldn't be the first time - come on islanders off you go!
First off, realistically I don't think Argentina will invade again because they did it last time on the assumption we wouldn't bother to invade them.
Given our military record in recent years, I suspect they wouldn't make that mistake again.
I agree Argentina has absolutely zero claim to the islands but I also think, if they did invade, given the people of the Falklands wouldn't be subjected to some sort of oppressive dictatorship and would be free to leave if they wanted to, it wouldn't be a significant enough situation to justify killing people over.
so you'll be cool if the samething happened to the UK then?
It's a silly comparison because there's zero chance of a bloodless invasion of the UK.
Given Argentina only invaded in the first place in 1982, 'cos they expected a bloodless invasion they're not going to invade the UK. So it's not really a question I can answer.
Second off, I'm not saying I'm cool with it or that Argentina aren't being utter twats. Just that it's not something to start killing people about.
..so your only cool if it happened to the North of England.
fair enough
I find it depressing
that countries cared enough (or at least used it as a good distraction from problems at home) to go to war over it
So let me get this right...
Argentina invades the Falklands and imposes their rule over a population that wants to be British and that's ok?
Of course not.
I'm just not convinced it's worth 957 dead people.
How many dead people is it worth?
55k
I bet there is some sort of projection model used somewhere that calculates
cost of conflict, potential loss of life and possible benefits to advise armies on whether to press ahead with these things.
GOT 'EM
I always think it's a load of bollocks and think Argentina should chill out
and then I see where the Falklands are on the map and kind of go hmmmm.
My sister's godfather is from the Falklands.
I like his accent. It's a bit like the New Zealand accent but not.
Isn't there a shit ton of oil there?
sheeldz?
Well we started oil exploration recently yeah...2010 I think
and that's when the argument started again I think
probably just a coincidence
Yeah potentially, but you know what people get like when there's oil involved
http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/social/4322385#r6544722
:-)
probably
we have a bunch of rigs out there drilling which is why this kicked off again. i am bot sure how it works out tht way for sectors and ability to drill but its related to the continental shelf and coastline in the north sea, hence why we and norway got auch a good deal and germany, netherlands and denmark got fuck all.
then theres the thing that even if we drop oil wells and stuff where will the extracted crude go? we dot have much infastructure down that way AND if argentina dint like us they could not allow us to refine it nearby haha.
meh
we'll be trying to give the Islands away when BP turns it into an ENVIRONMENTAL DISASTER ZONE
Speaking as a Falkland Islander...
there is nothing new about Argentina harassing us. They have been doing it for the last 30 years. They have imposed an economic blockade and are now threatening to cut one of our two flights to the Islands. Argentina's historical claim is ridiculous and all we want is the right to determine our own future.
Rant over
what accent do you have?
http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/social/4322385#r6544826
Pretty standard English accent
Some people here have a bit more of a stronger accent and sound a bit Aussie/Kiwi
Well I had heard that the UK could have given each falklander a million quid to resettle
(given the cost of the war) ....although of course this does not take into account the valuable military sales that Jonathon Aitk.....sorry the whole country can benefit from, french and british arms on display in a very realistic sales demo.
Its unfair of me to pick on Aitken
he probably only got a pittance (comparitively)
Well one would normally try to say who has most (real human interest(
in them, and that would be the people living on them, so they would morally have the most say, however factors like this must be mitigated by other circumstances......now the falklands are not an agricultural jewel.,....ans its not as if argentina is crying out for more ability to make food for its starving people.......so that reason does not justify overuling the people living there having the most say.......
the problem is that UK politics does not always defend this principle consistantly i.e. sometimes the UK has been involved in LARGE amounts of civilian displacements in other countries, sometimes this is to avoid the problems that would otherwise cause bloodshed and death, and since discplacement is considered the lesser of the evils the UK has sometimes done this.
The real qustion that people should be asking is 'do we want a war?' would it help the global economy in the medium term, to have a big big war in he short term.
Cristina Kirchner is really embarrassing herself now.
Still would though
I'd "embarrass" her right proper like
Really?
she's not that much better than Merkel....
Eh?
You need to look again. As female world leaders go, she is pretty much top
Kircher
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sl19VQdB_ks/Tkhyn3xvxeI/AAAAAAAAFuw/FtqZPzmhcEQ/s1600/cristina_kirchner.jpg
Merkel
http://blogs.reuters.com/global/files/2009/08/angela-merkel-photo.jpg
Maybe as female world leaders go
she is a hotty.
I still wouldn't want to fuck someone older than my mum.
Power can be an intoxicating aphrodisiac
well in that case I'd rather have the power
of the industrial might of Deutschland.
Though obviously not Merkel, Silvio was right on that count.
HOLD THE PRESS
Thailand Prime minister wins
http://tastythailand.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/yingluck-shinawatra.jpg
Quite a LOLsome article in The Telegraph today
It reads suspicisiously as tho Mr Gardiner just dusted off a 1982 article and changed the names:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100135753/cristina-kirchners-sabre-rattling-will-not-dent-british-resolve-over-the-falkland-islands/
Where's that thread about words you only ever hear together? I'm going to go add 'sabre' and 'rattle'.
Some reports today that the Argentine equivalent to the premier league
is set to be renamed the 'Cruiser General Belgrano League'.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/feb/07/argentina-football-league-general-belgrano
Presumably the defenders will leg it whenever there's a shot on goal.
Oooh, topical
Altho doesn't sound as good as renaming the league cup 'The Dauntless Cup' in fairness.
*something about it being a contest between two right-wingers*
FAO: Stacy_B
Did you go to Peter Symonds College?
Also, purely out of interest, what's it like for young people in the Falklands? Did you used to mailorder records prior to the arrival of broadband etc etc?
SCENE: COBRA meeting at 10 Downing Street
PM: I can't believe those bloody Argies are at it again
Chancellor: I'm sorry, but we just can not afford a full scale conflaguration right now with the economy as it is
Defence Minister: BALLS TO THAT! BOMB THE CUNTS!
*hubbub as they all argue. The Minister for Racial Equality appears from the shadows and clears his throat*
MRE: There is.......another....alternative *twinkle eyes*
Chancellor: No....no....you couldn't possibly...
DM: Sir, it's too risky, we all know...it could destroy the world as we know it!
PM: *purses lips* I don't see what other choice we have. Get me General WhatWhat on the phone
*PM sits back in chair and forms hands into a triangle pensively*
GWW: Harro! Genera' Wha'Wha' here.
PM: General, this is the PM. You are to go to c_i_cCON2. Deploy.........CHRIS....IS.....COOL.....
*Chancellor faints*
FIN
ha ha
did a proper lol at that
FALKLANDS FOR THE FALKLANDISH