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you cant be a christian.
you have more hatred for many other people
you are more willing to blame other people
you are a tory
all of the above are attributes which would seem to be contra the idea of following the teachings and example of jesus
I realise that everyone is on their own path.....but on the whole, yes, jesus does not like the cut of the tories jib (not everyone who is a tory would make jesus cry.....but a lot of them do.
also i do find some tories to be suprisingly humanistic and acceptable, kind and generous.....just like christianity, ot can be a broad church...although there are some headline preachers which probably give those under the banner a worse rep than they deserve
he's not qualified yet.
that makes you seem like less of a dick.
but the intolerance in the article is staggering, so it kinda balances out.
Most practicing Christians I know aren't. Cheers
"practising" incorrectly in this sub-thread. Thanks.
this is a question not related to the tone of the thread but: to generalise, how would they describe their beliefs about homosexuality?
there's a few kicking around DiS, I will have to see if one of them comes in later. But in my experience, it's still very much 'the love which dares not speak its name'. Atheists are much more tolerant and would be if, for example, their child came out to them.
peddling anti-gay stuff lately... (see remarks downthread)
Haven't noticed any homophobic atheists really either, apart from boring LAD types.
It's not something quantifiable anyway, but it seems fairly apparent that, unless you're a cunt, you're less likely to have a problem with homosexuality as an atheist than as a believer in a text which states that it's wrong.
You're just coming across as just as prejudiced as any of the hardline homophobes you're hating on in this thread.
if you can't be bothered to debate, don't make a point in the first place.
is more valid than another prejudiced, narrow-minded viewpoint? No thanks. I'll stick to not wasting my time.
LAD types are a pretty large section of society.
Christ. I've never met Jonathon Ross but I'm pretty sure he exists.
But I've never met Jonathan Ross either.
thank you but i was particularly interesting in the view of the christians that those guys^ knew.
to open up the discussion: my experience has generally been that it is something that people, otherwise liberal & decent etc. often even, sadly and reluctantly claim to believe is wrong, while offering certain disclaimers about 'God loving all' etc.
...I am genuinely very interested to know what the spread of opinions was among the Christians that are DiSers or that DiSers know...
*'liberal and decent', i know those are the wrong terms to use...what i meant
that's not a crticism of those people or christianity as a religion in any way, but i'd be interested to know if what i'd experienced to overwhelming be the case was influenced by geographic, social factors & you guys could contradict that...or what i experienced was much more broadly the experience of many DiSers...or are DiSers presuming the christians they know are not 'homophobic' because they seem like nice people...??????
I do know a few homophobic Christians, but I'd say an awful lot if not all of their (homophobic) beliefs are down to geographic/social factors rather than religion. What with them living in a conservative country where talk of "gay people versus normal people" is the norm, it sort of makes it harder to condemn them.
sorry...i think i got a little overwrought, and rephrased the question in a couple ways that didn't quite match up...
what i was asking is:
do those Christians that you consider to not be 'homophobic' have a stated belief about homosexuality - do they think that say: 'God loves gay people, but gay people should ideally abstain from sex', do they believe that gay (sexual) relationships are just as acceptable as heterosexual ones etc. ?
In fairness, most Christians I know have never stated their opinion on the matter. I know a couple of homophobic Christians, I know a couple of gay Christians, everyone else I am indeed in the dark about.
Christians are individual people and will have a wide-ranging spread of beliefs.
But certainly of the two Christians I'm closest to, one of them thinks people should be free to sleep with whoever they want to sleep to and the other one actively sleeps with people of both genders. Sex in general is quite a small part of the Bible as a whole - it's in no way what defines someone as a Christian so the spread of attitudes is as wide as it is amongst non-religious people.
"do those christians that you consider not to be 'homophobic'" -
i'm asking about specific people here, not asking you to generalise.
..."have a stated belief about homosexuality?"
i'm taking 'stated' to imply expressed...that's just a factual question, do those specific christians you personally know have a view on homosexuality? yes or no? what is it?
- that was the question...i don't think it was that problematic.
...then of course you answered it perfectly in your second paragraph, thank you. i wasn't ever interested in some broad survey - i factually don't know any people like those described in this sub-section, and i'm interested to hear that they exist. that's it: a fairly minor question in undoubtedly a heated & uncomfortable topic.
his bestwoman (what do you call a bestman thats a woman?) is gay.
of homophobic atheists and homophobic Christians. There is one uniting factor though: they're all shit. Whereas not all the Christians I know are shit, in the same way that not all atheists I know are shit. For the record though, this thread: shit.
... I can't think of any practising Christians that I know and I'm 31. The ones that I used to know really were bellends though. Well-meaning, but bellends.
... yes, I do mean 'middle' in a derogatory/prejudicial manner.
in 2001 42,079,000 people decribed themselves as being some sort of Christian for the census.
Funny story but stop being a dick, eh?
1. My parents described themselves as being Christian on the census and never attend church in their lives. I'm willing to bet that a fair amount of those 42 million, if not the majority, are in that same position.
2. Christian Voice have supported the anti-gay legislation passing through Uganda. I'm not the one being a dick.
3. This is hardly isolated. Plenty of Christians who would abhor Christian Voice are still extremely homophobic, or at the very least uncomfortable with it.
4. The tabloid press have recently been in broad support of a Christian couple who turned away a gay couple from their B&B. The owners were certainly not extremists, just an ordinary family. Most Christians, or most ones that I know who are actually practicing and not just atheists who go to church, dislike LGBT people. It's a pretty grave issue.
2. Christian Voice still has 2000 members
3. Some Athiests are homophobic, as are some Muslims, some Agnostics, some Jainists etc Why not say Shock News Homophobes are shit?
4. The tabloid press were in broad support? Citation needed.
3. True, but links to 4. I haven't seen any recent press about homophobia in any of the other faiths. (Obviously it's there, I'm not being stupid, but certain Christian groups seem to be very proud and open about it atm).
4.a) http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3264696/Christians-sued-over-gay-bed-ban.html (described as 'devout', much more coverage given to their side)
there's two others like that in the Mail.
Of course onoe of this changes the fact that you said something rather unpleasant and innaccurate (I won;t say offensive, I wasn;t offended).
themselves as Christian or not: http://census-campaign.org.uk/2011/03/new-survey-evidence-shows-that-the-census-religion-question-is-fatally-flawed/
But it has to be said that Christian Voice are nutjobs and are (unfortunately for Christians) just about the most vocal and headline-worthy pressure group.
should have put this, ofc. I was and am angry about this, hence the hyperbolic title. There are decent Christians, I just haven't met many.
Decency is something that a lot of the practising Christians that I know have in abundance.
and many of them are very decent, upstanding citizens. But then again, so were the B&B couple upthread. It means toss all. You can be a pleasant human being with morals and values, and still hold prejudices based on your faith.
but this is taking it too far. That's like saying: ''All terrorists are Muslim.'', which is quite clearly bollocks.
In every group, whether it's a religious, ethnic, political, racial, etc. you have good, decent people and you have bad people. You should never equate a whole group with some morons from that group.
Just relax, take it easy, take a deep breath and think about the issue before making such an inflammatory statement.
Note: I am not a Christian, I'm an Atheist, but I respect religious people and their choice to practice any religion they want.
Don't really want to have this kind of hate speech on what I thought was a liberally minded forum
have you read the article? What I put was extremely mild compared to what they're doing.
Christian Voice are the twats whose leader has publicly supported the Ugandan regime (old news link somewhere, I'll find it in a minute), yet I'm the one accused of hate speech.
what do the ugandan's hate? WHERE DOES IT END?
"Shock News, Christians are Shit" though. If you had put "Christian Voice is shit", there would be no issue in my eyes.
It's all wrong.
Answering prejuidce with prejudice isn't the answer
but I don't really see what is. Why should I be tolerant about this kind of thing?
But just broadly making general neagtive statements about a group of people based on one defining characteristic - aren't you practising what you preach against there?
but the contexts are very different.
CV and other groups, especially in the USA, have been hating on gays for years and causing real trouble as a result of it. It's even seeping into UK governance now. Tax breaks for married couples? No gay marriages in a Christian church? Homosexuality now to be 'discouraged' as something to be taught about in schools? Staggering. It's 2012. I think I'm allowed, just this once, to hate a group of human beings who don't want me to get married and wish to deny the existence of LGBT people to teenagers. Not much to ask given the circumstances.
Obviously this is hyperbole central, but do you see why it's more than just Christian Voice?
and others regularly write about the 'gay agenda' in the papers which the majority of people actually read.
The government tries to impose ever more subtle legislation to promote the heterosexual family as the ideal.
The article I posted is the tip of a very large iceberg. Perhaps I am prejudiced, but I think I've every right to be. I shouldn't think any victim likes their oppressor or wants to think rationally about them.
Homophobia is a societal problem than goes a lot deeper than just going *Bloody Christians*, especially given that in modern Britain religion's influence is massively on the wane.
only last month say he wanted a return to Christian values?
Dunno, it seems I'm in the minority here but I sympathise with the OP's general point, if not the way he's gone about making it.
homophobia to be one of the core Christian values?
and that widespread acceptance of religious views isn't helping us overcome that.
Not saying all religious people are homophobic, but I believe religion generally does more harm than it does good when it comes to homophobia. Citation needed etc.
For example, some people say paganism is one of the few religions that doesn't view women as second class citizens.
that Christianity does.
All religious faiths are on some level homophobic. It's inherent.
is 'core' a crucial word here?
"it is not a 'core' value" - as a sentence, is that a luxury that only straight people can afford...eg. straight christians can say, 'well i'm don't think about homosexuality much', and if pushed say 'oh no maybe god doesn't approve'
...gay people have to internalise ALL societies' values so don't have the luxury.
Is homophobia something that defines Christianity and sets Christian views apart from atheist/other religious views? I think the answer would have to be, no.
The present Republican Primaries would suggest that many people think that being demonstrably anti-gay is a good way of showing to Christians that you have strong core values.
2. ...I still don't have a great deal of respect for very many Christians (or indeed those of other faiths) as a result of things like the OP
3. More replies that way
not particularly liberal.
Don't forget about Muslims!
Not that that was particularly comfortable anyway.
And I would very much like to undergo some sort of conversion therapy, though svenrokk was really helpful in the morning thread.
But me aside, this is a revolting action on any level. I can hate my own sexuality and still feel bad about others like me being persecuted by CV and other such groups.
the only good thing about this thread
Someone's vandalised it so it says LEAVING BROOKLYN? OY VEY!
What's even more amazing that we commented it's so amazing cos of all the Orthodox Jews than live in Williamsburg our friend who lives in New York Was like *Oh.....I...thought it was...Spanish*
I got lost in Williamsburg and wandered into the realy Jewish part, I got shouted at to cover my head :-D
in that nasal rapping voice that Alesha Dixon does
And now I can't stop thinking in Dixon.
We're running low on popcorn.
Take brusma with you if you like.
Instead of being a faux martyr about it on a website trying to bask in the reflected persecution to gain attention? You absolute fanny.
clearly didn't read my link. The group involved have tried to influence Tesco with some success. No reflected persecution here. I've posted upthread about the challenges which are faced thanks to the press and media, feel free to actually read it if you like. Thanks.
Im weary of your self obsessed bullshit. Its really tiring
so if I dont respond to points it's because I'm not here rather than because I can't be arsed/don't want to engage.
maybe a brandy
That if you were to rank the worst new threads this catastrophe wouldn't even crack the top 10.
Still got it.
I hope he misplaced a folder.
codswallop will fill you in
(oh the irony etc)
the zoo will be open again tomorrow.
the only homophobes i know are homophobic for religious reasons. thanks
you changed my life today
a staggeringly ill-judged and misguided thread
you're complaining about people you feel discriminate against you
by discriminating against the larger group they are part of
can you not see you're being a bigot?
Oh hang on, he didn't make either.
but the stench of 18-year-old coming from you is immense
When I was 18 I was out getting drunk and fingering girls, not being a twat on the internet. That came much later, when the bitterness seeped in.
most 18 year olds i ever knew were a bit dull and annoying in this desperate-to-have-a-strong-and-controversial-opinion way.
me too probably
wish i was a fingers machine
so i won't
whilst participating in this thread.
congratulations are in order, i would think
Is she a tory?
the problem is that the ones that are seem to be allowed to preach it as being part of christianity, which is why some people generalise about christians being homophobes......
its because tolerant human loving christians allow themselves to be called the same name as intolerant hate filled christians. and because some preachers seem to preach it.
the stakes are raised as well, when some christians try to state that they are very moral and then criticise gays as being immoral and due to have eternal damnation etc....so peoples kicking back against christians is understandable
but come on guys, I think with the diane abbot thing we all finally got our heads round the idea that one prejudice is not 'just as bad' as another prejudice by virtue of being a prejudice. Guys?
I'm calling them out
unraveling of Christianity and homophobia.
I thought the fourth point was particularly interesting:
"Leviticus, the book of the Bible which stipulates death for homosexuality, requires the same punishment for adultery, pre-marital sex, disobedient children and blasphemy."