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Ms/Mrs/Miss
I was reading a little 'debate' thing in cosmo about being called Ms or Miss or Mrs and was just wondering what other people thought of that.
I wouldn't think to call myself Ms but maybe I'm not of an age where being a Miss seems a bit odd. It just seems that Ms is to hide your marital status so people don't know if you're single or married but is there more than that?
it's not necessarily to hide it for some people
more just a general rejection of having to be labelled either way
Why are people so worried about being labelled something?
Only because Master sounds wanky.
I used to love being called Master.
I didn't think that ever happened this side of 1940!
Think my grandma used to address birthday cards to Master h_y_g.
She may have been the only one, but I always thought it was cool.
I send birthday presents to my godson, addressing him as master.
thewarn: keeping archaic terms of address alive since 1978
:)
good for you. This is a nice touch, IMO
Some people object to the fact that Miss and Mrs label women
when there's no similar labelling for men. As if a woman's status comes from whether or not she is married, but men aren't affected by that.
exactly, it's not about worry
it's hardly like it's some huge difficulty to anyone if you call yourself a Ms, is it?
It's simply: why should it matter, and if it doesn't, then there's no problem using Ms then.
That logic doesn't really work out.
If it doesn't matter, then just leave it how it is which is miss or mrs. It'll only matter when someone calls you Miss <something> and you go 'no no no i'm a ms'. What difference does that make?
That logic really does work out, though.
if it doesn't matter to anyone, what on earth sort of problem is it?
It's like someone addressing someone as Matthew and being corrected to Matt. No one minds, no one goes BUT MATTHEW'S YOUR GIVEN NAME. People just go 'oh okay'. Zero hassle, not an issue.
I only have an issue with it if someone gets on the offensive if you make an honest mistake. Otherwise, live and let live.
Otherwise it's just kind of saying "you should do this, because it's what history tells you to do, so don't ever change it."
Which is silly.
Just part of getting married I suppose
if you don't want anyone to know you're married, don't get married.
But a man doesn't have to choose, does he?
And therein lies the reason that some women don't like it.
*shrug*
I dunno. I don't care that much about it. I am happy to only be Miss for now and Mrs when I become the property of a man.
But you started the thread!
And although you might be joking about "ownership" in this case, your general lack of a grasp of the very widely accepted simple basis for annoyance (for some people) that arises from the 'one designation for men', ' two designations for women' anomaly is bewildering to me (and very probably exasperating for many other women).
But, as ever, it's better to ask questions than to be ignorant.
Especially since now, as well as knowing about the Ms thing, you should also know why it feels as if feminists (female or male) are being snarky to you.
^trolled
CG has groomed you well.
appear in the right place!
What double standard?
It was a fucking joke! You people.
I haven't come in here arguing about how I do not want to be labelled or how I want to be labelled, I'm just asking what other people think of it. I don't see why all you MEN are getting all pissy about nothing, really!
??
I was obviously joking about being male property. I don't think like that at all. Infact, I'm very independent and only want to get married as it would be nice to be married to someone.
You are allowed to start a thread about things you care little about.
But if you say
''but is there more than that?'' and it's explained to you that yes, in fact, there is, then life is good. No one is trying to convince you to change how you do your thing, but now you know why. So this thread has been a resounding success.
I'm allowed to ask for some other opinions on the matter.
That was the only reason I could think of why someone would want to be called Ms, hence why I'm asking if there is anything more than that.
How about we shut this thread down now and you lot stop hassling me for wanting to talk about something?
i'm agreeing with you, sucka!
You asked, you were provided with an answer, everyone's in happy rainbow land!
I blame TheWza.
if you don't want anyone to know you're married, don't get married.
That is all.
fwiw
i don't think anyone's arguing anything. it's literally just been people explaining something you've asked to be explained...
as you say, getting pissy makes no sense, because there's no argument to be had about anything, at all.
?
I acknowledged that you were joking about that and my point wasn't about that (although the joke is possibly partially undermined on account of available evidence found in this thread and others).
I'm Miss at the moment
when/if I get married, I'll change my surname (because I'd like to form a family unit with the same name and my surname isn't particularly good) but I'll be 'Ms' because I don't want to be defined by being married and 'Mrs' sounds like what grown-ups are called.
I think thats quite a good way of doing things
I would probably take the Mrs when I get married as I'll already feel different by changing my surname. I think that would be so weird when/if the time comes. I'm not sure I'd want to change it but I do at the same time.
generally use Ms when you don't know whether it's Mrs or Miss or Ms
How do you pronounce that?
mz
Like The Mizz from WWE?
Actually, it causes a lot of aggro.
In my line of work, we refer to everyone as Mr/Mrs etc (unless they're a criminal or some other exception) and I always forget to ask women whether they prefer Miss, Mrs. But you can't guess and put Ms, because I guarantee some people will take exception - lots of women (at least the ones willing to complain) consider it either spinsterish or the chosen designation for lesbians.
I would probably be a bit pissed off if I was referred to as Mrs when I'm not a Mrs
as it would be talking about my mum really.
huh
i send out lots of official letters from work, when we don't have a title for female, Ms is always used. ain't had a complaint, and that given the fact the majority of people i write to are, well, total busybodies
Well I'd prefer it if everyone were a Ms, it would make my life easier,
but going by my experience and what I'm told by my bosses and former teachers, it's a very sensitive area.
surely Miss is more spinsterish?
I think it sounds a bit silly past a certain age (not sure what that age is yet - 40 maybe?)
Ms has always seemed more spinsterish to me.
As in, older women using it so no-one will guess they're not married.
Same with mine.
I have nothing personally against it, but it does have certain connotations.
known quite a few women get narky when addressed as 'ms'
I think that a lot of that is down to men saying it to imply that they think the woman is a chippy feminist.
sometimes, but not always
Some women can be really sensitive about what you call them
Bitches be crazy like that.
^ ban request
I call myself Miss.
Ms is probably a better title (not defined by my relationship to a man, etc etc), but switching would feel odd now.
Back in my strident feminist days I always went for Ms
These days I prefer Miss, it just sounds better.
What made you change your mind?
Miss is just a nicer sounding word than Ms
and now I'm not spending my days reading Germaine Greer and Sheila Jeffreys, I'm no longer so fussed about people being able to determine my marital status from my title.
Eligible men wouldn’t know she was single
How is she supposed to find a husband of fortune and position if suitors don’t even know she is available? I suppose they could contact her family on the off chance.
:D
Hi
Madam?
sub-thread
Esquire, yeah? not the magazine, the bit after your name. can anyone use that, or do you have to have had some sort of honour bestowed on you?
^^
i would also like to know this.
have you already got brusma_esquire waiting?
It does seem like an odd thing to put if anybody can use it.
It gets bestowed if you've been excellent to each other.
or:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esquire
although wasn't only one of them an esquire?
I can't remember now.
Bill.
Ted Theodore Logan didn't need a suffix.
Ted
Could, like, totally stand for Totally Excellent Dude though, dude.
Its the title before you become a knight
Needed to be born into relative nobility, too, so shitmunchers couldnt become an apprentice to a knight or anything to get the title
What does that mean?
I think you have to be a landowner
what about if you're a lawnmower
That won't cut it
Oh god
he'll mown about that now
i'd normally be garden against that kind of comeback
this exchange
has left me forlawn
Some pretty weedy comments, to be sure.
No surprise
no one here's very turf
Loads of folk who routinely soil the bed
...
...
...
...
...
*appeals to third umpire*
*only right arm goes up*
sorry man
Forking umpire's overlooked the secondary gardening term "bed"
They get MORE than men and they still whine and bitch!
Bloody women
A former colleague was appalled to find out
That her bank didn't offer "Dr and Mr" as the available titles for joint bank cards. "Dr and Mrs", "Dr and Miss" and "Dr and Dr" were available (I don't know about Ms), but not the first one.
She's quite easily angered, though.
Seriously?
Forget oil related controversy, that would be enough to make me boycott the fuckers!
People who get bank cards changed to Dr:
bit needy, like.
(however appalling the 'Dr and Mr' thing is.)
Might do it when mine expire in ~4 months
I know someone who was absolutely crestfallen at bringing in relevant documentation to get their bank cards changed to Dr and the cashier not giving an actual fuck and just changing one letter on the system without a second thought or any other authority.
This is pretty outrageous
I went to a restuarant with two females and they referred to me as "dr palmer" assuming Id be the doctor. We laughed about the insanity of that, but still, offensive to the extreme.
Heh, never even thought of that
but this one was a doctor of medicine. If itd have been me, Im usually fairly easygoing but would I would have been LIVID (inside of course)
Pretty much every house style guide I've ever used
suggests using Ms for everyone, no matter the circumstances or how much you know of their marital status. I don't really have time for anyone who'd take offence at Ms seeing as it's a term designed to avoid offending people.
Everyone FEMALE that is, any smarty pants in waiting
House style guide?
List of rules for publications in terms of the way things should be written/edited
Chicago is most famous.
I work in publishing, innit.
We have guides on preferred terminology and formats and that kinda shit. They tend to tread fairly PC lines, with the exception of The Mail and The Sun. Titles don't matter there- all women are prefixed as 'leggy'.
I thought you meant you'd been reading the lady mags and there was a pull out guide to house style
What I do in my own time
is my business and my business alone.
pretty sure DK has been 'reading the lady mags' for years
Yep, big fan of 'pull outs'
Suit jacket over open-necked shirt/faux-vintage t-shirt
Paired with jeans, various hard to get Nike trainers and a cane.
Actually
i'm currently wearing a suit jacked over a striped t-shirt, jeans and some Nikes.
...
I look like a *cunt*.
http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/social/4316479#r6473829
fix
Having these distinctions also hurts men, y'know.
I'm sure there was more than one occasion in my first call centre job where I had to ask, "Are you Miss, Mrs or Ms?" only to be greeted by a stony silence followed by...well, you guessed it.
Dr, was it?
Fucking minefield.
Followed by what??
My initial thought was a man's voice but surely you would have waited for them to speak before asking them any questions.
"I'm Mister", natch.
He'd been speaking for the previous minute, but I was hardly to blame for the fact he was 21 and still waiting for his voice to break.
It can be difficult to tell over the phone. Trust me.
I was once interviewing someone over the phone called Alex, they had a really husky voice but I was under the impression it was a woman. I tried to keep navigating the conversation in a way that would give it away ('Are you married?' etc) and eventually asked 'how do you spell your name?'), which gave the slow response you would give to an idiot: 'A... L... E... X.' They then added: 'It's Miss, by the way. I know it's hard to tell'.
I still cringe a bit.
my ex used to call me his missus
Quite endearing
NOTHING ELSE REALLY TO ADD apart from I'm Miss Marilyninthesky.
I don't like that.
what being called a missus?
I loved it.
Its along the same lines as people who call their girlfriend/wife 'ER INDOORS!
The ol' ball and chain
The trouble and strife
UNDA THA FUM!
na
He wasn't laddish or anything...probably more of an indie wet towel to be honest. I wasn't going to spoil his little bit of 'laddish-ness', and it was a term of affection rather than anything else.
not really
How's the missus?
I'd be tempted to give my kids my dad's surname
(I have my mum's). Simply because he was an only child whereas she has a brother who took the more traditional route, so I feel a bit saddened by the idea of his name dying out.
HOW DARE YOU
my Mum didn't change her name when she got married
Because my dads name is horrible and she didn't want to have the same name as her mother in law. But she uses Ms to indicate that she is married.
That's a bit counter-intuitive
How many Ms?
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMRS Tillance-mum
Mmmmmmmmmmm…
mattesons
Shklee
This is an interesting read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun#English
^the main reason you shouldn;t date someone who also uses DiS
I don't trust your tinyurls, that could be thissing something awful
i don't really understand name changing
says the man with about 6 different usernames
I generally just call everyone Mrs.
women.
not men obviously.
No-one has ever got annoyed,
EVERYONE
I'm obviously a traitor to my gender by liking the idea of taking my future husband's name
(If it ever happens)
A colleague of mine
Calls people Sir.
Well, men anyway.
She's from an estate in Peckham but tries very hard to act otherwise. I call her Miss Bucket.
No because she's always
'Keeping Up Appearances'.
*Peanuts' Marcie
although it has happened :)
I found it odd to be a Mrs for the first few years, especially as I was comparitively young
used to it now though, gives me a sense of maturity I otherwise lack
I tried to encourage Mr S to refer to me as missus after seeing Great Expectations over Christmas but he was having none of it
Great Expectations <3
My mum goes by Ms since she split up with my dad
so I've always assumed it sort of implied you were divorced or separated, obviously I was wrong
^this
It took ten years between my mother's separation and her divorce coming through. Technically she was still a Mrs, but she was living alone, so she was Ms on forms and so on. (The kids in her class still call her Mrs Dawson though).
I prefer Ms I suppose, I automatically put it on anything that I'm fllling out
Never really paid much attention to it. It's probably the best thing to use especially if it's regarding something that you're gonna use like ALL OF YOUR LIFE. I guess when I think about it Miss sounds reeeeally young and even though I am young I guess that could be a reason why some people go by Ms? Like I dunno Miss seems more for like, preteens or something.
The weirdest thing is hat my mam still goes by my dads name, and Mrs even though they've been separated for like 17 year and divorced for about 10.
I would rather die than be 'Mrs', frankly
but some people don't mind it, which is their prerogative. I changed my bank accounts etc to Ms when I turned 16 and have been Ms ever since.
As for changing your name- I'm a bit split on this one. I didn't change my name when I got married, because I had already established a career for myself with my birthname, published articles etc in that name. I didn't want to lose the goodwill attached to it. In terms of feminism, I'm well aware that my birthname is also a patriarchal hand-me-down, in the sense that it came from my father, but I didn't have much choice in that. And so I will be sticking with my birthname, but as much for practical reasons as idealogical ones. If it's that a big deal to any future husband, he's welcome to take my name.
I'm married
and have continued referring to myself as miss or ms, depending on how I feel. I kept my name and my least favourite thing is being addressed with my husband's first name as well as his second name.
Go Compare pissed me off once as it wouldn't let me choose 'miss' if I ticked married, or 'ms' unless I chose divorced.
mrs [husband's first name] [husband's last name] is a proper shocker.
any person/company using it these days needs to sort it out.
Milf