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seems a load of old arse to me. meh.
When you say "a load of old arse" you could mean any number of things. I'd say that the "point" of them is the similar to that of most protests, to draw attention to a position or issue, in this case, the fact that one percent of the US population controls the vast majority of the wealth and uses that wealth to buy influence that they use to screw over the vast majority. I personally think that there's something noble about saying 'I don't care if you beat me or spray me down with tear gas or falsely detain me because there's nothing you can do to me that hasn't already been done.' I guess it serves more of a symbolic purpose than a practical one, a way of demonstrating that the majority that's being fucked over in the US is a community, rather than a bunch of people getting individually fucked over. However, if you want to don the empty mask of anhedonia, sneer dismissively and wave it all off as "a load of old arse," then that's totally your prerogative.
he only supports them because he agrees with them?
we're through the looking glass here people
And they're all amazing.
As far as i can tell (it's pretty hard to tell) the rightist argument in that article is REALLY terrible. Like, doesn't actually answer any of the critiques of the current system or anything and comes up with the sort of dubious idea that the new information technology revolution is undermining old institutions. I think he means the state. I can't think of any other institutions the crisis is undermining. We sort of need the state pal.
internet slightly less tough guy this'd this
and it wasn't even sarcastic, mr diddles.
they feel that the feelingd that they are expressing (and that many others feel) are not being expressed in the chambers by the supposed representatives in the terms that they feel them
then I imagine it's doing similar in fora the country/ world over. They've made headline news (writing to your MP to vent your spleen doesnt get you that). They're demonstrating peacefully from what I can see, so as much as the red tops woud like to have a jolly good complain about thuggery by oafs, there seems to be none of that there (unlikely Italy). It looks to be a fairly decent protest which is raising awareness that a large sector of society feels secrewed over. Seems entirely fair enough.
A few commentators are getting uppity about the london locus, saying that it sohuld be BoE that is occupied and not paternoster. I work next to BoE and can understand why they chose not to gather there- it's cramped, on a narrow road and does not have the pedestrianised space of Paternoster Square.
As for what they are alld about, I thought their charter was a bit woolly but sufficiently clear for its purposes.
Just to watch the ladies who lunch trying to pick their way through on the way to Tiffany's.
(to be fair, the LADIES WHO don't pop up much in these parts. It's mostly business men and women.)
Also, this is super-twee but thoughtfully put together and quite sad really- http://vimeo.com/30606031
Interestingly, do you know why there is a golden grasshopper as the weather vane on it? It was originally built by Thomas Gresham, who's crest had a grasshopper on it. From wiki: According to an ancient legend of the Greshams, the founder of the family, Roger de Gresham, was a foundling abandoned as a new-born baby in long grass in North Norfolk in the 13th century and found there by a woman whose attention was drawn to the child by a grasshopper. A beautiful story, it is more likely that the grasshopper is simply an heraldic rebus on the name Gresham, with gres being a Middle English form of grass (Old English grœs). The Gresham family motto is Fiat voluntas tua ('Thy will be done')
I love the grasshopper :D
There's also a replica one on lombard street which is closer to street level and easier to gawp at :)
Or at least specifically, in terms of Gramcian/cultural hegemony stuff. It kind of fucks me off so many people buy into it as a theory.
It's very neat at least. And people like neat theories.
To be honest it's always felt to me like Marxists getting pissed off that they've failed to convince the working-classes of the benefits of a Marxist political system and trying to make excuses for their failure by claiming it all comes down to implied conspiracy rather than simply that a lot of people don't find the idea of a Marxist society very appealing.
reasons which aren't always (or even routinely) reducible to conscious or deliberate choices on their part.
In terms of the Gramscian concept of hegemony, I think it's less useful / informative than most concepts of ideology, and it is routinely misapplied.
You know Billy boy, I just don't know how we could've lucked out to have the tides go in, tides go out, sun goes up, sun goes down wifout Jebus. These liberal pinheads don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
to win will those that serve (to enough of an extent)the interests of those at the top.
This is because those at the top have power and they obviously have an interest in kingmaking (although this is meant to be minimalised in a democracy).....we can see this clearest in this country in 'the influence of the press'.
in addition to this there is an overarching widely held falicy, which, if you examine recent political history in the uk, becomes apparent.....prior to new labour, the labour party was seen as unelectable, even though most people wanted labour values rather than tory, kinnock never got elected, because although the people liked labours values (at this point) they were afraid that labour would be incompetant with money, because they were seen to not be on the side of big business and financial industry, so there was a feeling that they would not work together and that the UK would suffer in competition with other countries.
THEN Blair and new labour courted big business and finance and murdoch and they all became lovers...and new labour won, and new labour worked hand in hand with the financiers and big business, so that the UKs economy got right (lolololololololol)
So this is the lie.....that to be considered electable, you have to at least seem to be working hand in hand with big business and finance (cos this makes you seem like a big boy....a grown up who understands lifes complexities, rather than someone who just says nice sounding things....................now of course we know that to just side with the 'serious big boys' (big business and finance) is not necessarily going to mean that you will get the economy right........however, most people, when it comes to elections vote with what they feel is the best for the future.....at the last UK election, the overwhelming majority in this country were still labouring under the delusion that things were not as broken as they actually are, people were not quite aware of actually how unskillful and uninsightful the leaders of big business/finance and government are/were.....it is now only becoming truly apparent to most people how most of the decisions and actions the 'big boys' made were sort of for the short term and 'chancing' and 'bluster' ......only now is it becoming truly apparent how actually clueless the 'big boys' are, when it comes to sorting the mess out.......now the 'big boys' are shown to be silly headless chickens who can wear the suit of gravitas and understanding, but without any content.
Another factor is that 'the people' are not a sentient entity, they do not vote or act together, they vote in frightened ignorant isolation....ignorant and second guessing what the other voters will do (this is why the lib dems have never got in before now....the UK is obviously more lib dem in nature....yet they never garnered the votes.....because in the war between left and right, people felt they had to make their vote count, rather than wasting it.......but you know all this anyway
So, whilst you can reasonably extrapolate from most opinion polls the Mail and the Express don't really express the views of the country, they do represent the views of the ones who end up voting.
At the same time, whilst a lot of people in both the left and the centre know what the problems are, there's both a lack of proposed solutions and certainly a lack of solutions everyone agrees on. One of the reasons why the Occupy Wall Street protest (and why I suspect it actually has a much wider range of support than you think) is because so far all it's done is vented the problems and not really focussed on solutions.
Furthermore, a lot of people unhappy with the current political system see the system itself as a problem so would have a general distrust of organised political parties or assume all political parties ultimately fail so wouldn't vote/form political parties. Which is a problem as that's the actual means we currently have to change the system.
I'd love a broad-based left-wing political party to be formed and think, done in the right way, there is scope for it to be a major force but, at the moment, I can't see it happening. Which leaves me, even as a fairly moderate centre-lefty looking to the next election and not really seeing who I can possibly vote for that'll even come close to representing my views.
call the whole thing off boys!
Is this about those protesters at St Pauls? Cause they're all dicks. They've shut my gym because of them. I had a spin class booked at 6pm which is now cancelled. Idiots.
how do people sitting in a square get a 'spin class' cancelled? Are things getting uglier? are they jostling gym members on the way in? are they targetting gym members as being those with too much?
What the hell is a spin class?
JUST IN CASE.
There were a lot of dreadlocks in the area but hey had created their own recycling system which I quite like...BUT WHERE WILL THEY PUT IT? I guarantee bin men will come along after and just shove it all in the same bin.
so it's the Police that have shut down your spin class
now if they were all to show off the progress and muscle they have made, by tipping the vans over :D
'rides' and it is these that are preventing your class...............................hmmm Perhaps the gym members could all just protestingly march through the square to your gym anyway....you are perfectly within your rights, and everyone seems to be protesting nowadays....it would be interesting if people did it for more assorted reasons
the police wouldn't be there.
Think about it.
so essentially its the bankers fault
While a person tells you to pedal.
We're all doomed...
they'll be able to fix up the bikes to power the gyms lighting and heating in a jiffy, everyones a winner....the gym gets to be earmarked for not being vandalised in future 'anarchy protests' and the protesters get good publicity for working in harmony with locals for a mutually beneficial and green outcome
why have gyms not caught onto this yet.
I wonder whether the power generated by an hour's spinning would offset teh power used up by lighting the class, heating your shower at the end of it etc. Hmmm.
I'd pretty much showered myself by the end of it, tbh
My gym is genuinely shut.
if so why is it called a spin class? Is it organised? synchronised maybe? like that advert with the treadmills?
here's some info about it- http://www.lesmills.com/global/rpm/about-rpm.aspx
you feel like a tool at first but it's fun, the time flies and because it's HIT/ interval training, you get really fit quite quickly.
I honestly think you're my favourite poster these days. No homo.
I've found another gym I can go to with a spin class at 6:30.
They can carry on.
into the news.
It's fairly obvious when you're not trying, you're damaging the brand.
I think you can tell when it's the real deal and when it's a lacky though
Even Littlejohn's ceded the protesters have a point. You appear to be ignoring all facts here. Just makes you look a bit stupid.
that doesn't look like the demographic to me. I mean, ok, there are a lot of people wearing sensible shoes (*wink*), but on the whole these do not look like a bunch of swampies. You're right in that, for whatever reason, the public loves to hate on trustafarians chaining themselves to JCBs, but that's not what this one seems to be about. Or at least, it's not how it's being portrayed. They also have the backing of the canon of st Paul's, who told the police to beat it and welcomed the protesters into the church.
ur pretty dumb
The anarchistic left is spread pretty thin these days.
I think the Wall Street occupation has become much more organised over the weeks though and has definitely succeeded in getting the wage disparities and wealth inequalities into the everyday discussion of a large number of 'ordinary' Americans
not necessarily accurate or particularly good but whateverrrr
how much you earn /=/ how much wealth you have
these are some of the reasons people are protesting
(but also there are all sorts of suggestions no doubt, some good some not.)
when it presents viable alternatives.
Their arguments are that the propsed solutions do not equitably 'spread the pain'. You've got to agree they have a point. Arguably they are looking to the people in power to help find a solution which doesn't leave the vast majority of people in the country feeling like they've been fucked over. These people do not have to power to formulate/ implement change of this magnitude. It's not unreasonable to expect your elected representatives or top look to instrutions to help do that. (obv, as corporate lawyers we will know that thwere's fuck all point looking to corporate entities such as LSE because directors duties to promote success of company as a whole/ CA2006 means that the good of the shareholder will usually trump the good of the country. But still, you know what I mean. I hope.)
the middle bit is me saying it's not unreasonable to expect that people will look to institutions or those more powerful to come up with solutions.
to be honest.
I've just been on secondment at an inter-dealer broker for three months and at my leaving drinks last week I got up on my soapbox to criticise (drunkely but coherently, I hope) the whole financial system at a fundamental level.
I remember there being lots of "inverted pyramid" stuff, "ludicrous overleveraging of the world's resources", "traders being remunerated by generating more and more theoretical, electronic money", etc.
and not want to be a little bit sick in your mouth from time to time.
Even as somebody who sees (and reaps) the benefits of capitalism in pretty much every facet of my life, the way the machinery which exceutes it at that end of the wedge is just foul. Good on you, and i hope your speech was well received! (and that your client- I'm presuming it was a client- is still your friend!)
Despite the fact you're a terrifying rightist. Do I have to hand in my Weedy Liberal badge now?
Don't be fooled by the blue shoes.
Even meowington has a view on them.
and yet that which is extant is also not viable.
The problem is that the orthodox alternatives will be backed by many serious 'big boys' with titles and qualifications (who we must remember were unable to predict or understand this crisis and whose advice got the world into this pickle) who will back the orthodox (yet unfeasible) alternatives.
If protesters (or me) make an alternative suggestion it will not be backed by 'big boys' with titles and positions and qualifications what got us into this pickle in the first place.........and rather than to be willing to weigh up the logical outcomes of all the alternatives and come to the conclusion that the unorthodox not feasible sounding solutions might actually be less awful than the orthodox ones, the media and the public will merely look to see if it seems feasible or credible (despite that the faculties that the media and public have so far used, have proven to be woefully inadequet to assess or predict)
They probably stink of shit.
I found this quite interesting too
although I'd respond to it by arguing the exact point of the protests is that they aren't particular radical - they're trying to make a fairly straightforward mainstream point that a lot of people feel but isn't getting much attention.
seem fairly redundant. The other big protests I've a lot more sympathy for, if they can force the debate to have a human face then great for them. I'm not sure it'll work though because, from what I've seen of the London one, it's the same rent-a-protest bongo playing hippies who turn up to every march going.
chucked em a bit o' bread.
I'm not normally sympathetic to these groups, but this is pretty important.
Good luck to them.
who is and who isn't a nobhead.
...but Moore was not only eloquent, he scrupulously avoided any kind of straw-man pitfalls. Paxo was hardly able to call him out on anything! Progress, ladies and gents.
First two bars of The Fall - Inevitable, on a loop.
he is literally the worst cunt of all recorded history.
Yep, pretty much.
thought it ought to go here
what's up with that ?
So instead of asking 100 people we are all asked and we all score based on the number of other people who answered as we did.
is my favourite
Thom Yorke, Robert Del Naja and Tim Goldsworthy DJed and it was live streamed on their site.
Interesting article by Naomi Wolf. Thanks for the link, Body_In_The_Thames.