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What the fuck?
Apart from be the human incarnation of a fart in a lift.
was white people wanting to be black. And that if you heard David Lammy on the radio, you'd think he were white because he's educated and well-spoken.
what a massive racist prick. career over.
Who I think is an embarrassing, doddering, reactionary, out-of-touch pseud who is an awful role model for aspiring intellectuals or academics and who should be immediately and forcefully retired from any public appearance whatsoever....
APART from that, great posting, thoughtful, balanced and full of stuff I largely agree with. Bravo.
the most serious indictment of Starkey here is his pure ignorance of history.
It's not "ignorance of history" (cause historians aren't just purveyors of historical facts) but his heinously stupid interpretation of history.
You are giving him far, far too much credit as a historian.
He fails at critical thinking. End of discussion.
Must have been for the lols.
I liked the younger chap.
the bit where he's reading the txt ^o^ did Chris Morris produce this show?
Someone tweeted last night 'Who let Starkey into the studio after a night on the white lightening?'
at the peculiar, club-legged pensioner wooping with jubilation and yelling in his strange, strangled voice: ' this oscar-winning performance by Natalie Portman is the most astute cultural metaphor I have ever witnessed - I am telling you all, we will one day look back at this and see it for what it is; a prophecy, a foretelling of the sickness that will one day see our capital raised to the ground by the waltzing flames of revolutionary fervour.'
Dudes got an aerosol can where his larynx should be, biologically can't open his mouth without spraying out inflammatory shit
on a similar note have you seen Nick Griffins message to the nation? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGwk0NsW69o&feature=player_embedded
Apparently he predicted the 7/7 bombings and nobody listened to him
look at him sitting in his mum's lounge
I have no idea what starkey said but I'm sure you're all being patronising nonses as per usual
don't be silly
doesn't affect your opinion of them?
But I'm sure you'll grow out of it.
I watched this and did think yeah probably loads of people think this too. But idk I hear the "most old people are racist" line a lot.
I have a few issues with it.
1. It distracts us from the more important issue of a growing number of young people with sympathies to the far right (even if they don't recognise it). Racism's not going to die with this generation.
2. I'm not even sure the majority of elderly people are a bit racist. I don't know any.
3. It implies we should just let them spout their racist views cause they're nice and old when really we should be able to tell that woman from Rochdale to stfu and stop being bigoted.
Realise you were joking... but I don't think we can discount the threat of the BNP etc.
I'm not a utopianist so no...
Anyway, stop pretending to be stupid.
Stop conflating "is" and "ought"
People only "need" someone to blame when the world is shit.
Society probably needs ideology. I'd just rather it was based on shared values that people can actually strive towards than a genetic feature that has nothing to do with someone's worth as a human being.
Oh I see
It's not because you're black that I am going to judge you; it is because of all the things *associated* with being black of which skin colour is merely a marker.
yeah, that makes so much sense.
btw i was bein sarcastic
It makes sense in that it isn't grammatical nonsense, yes. But it is simply a logical error to pass it off this form of prejudice as not being being about skin colour or other genetic features since it relies on those things.
So do you not think it's abhorrent or something?
Killing people on the basis of intelligence would be eugenics and I'm pretty sure most people see that.
I know what you're trying to say here. But you don't seem to appreciate that by using something like skin colour as the sole marker for this cultural difference, you are differentiating on the basis of skin colour and not on the basis of the cultural differences that you (possibly correctly, possibly mistakenly) think they have.
The supposed cultural difference may underlie why you fear this person but it is not the basis of the prejudice. And we're more likely to "fear" cultural difference when it involves people who don't look like us.
Your point may be worth making in a world where there had never been any immigration to the UK. But the fact is many black and other ethnic minority groups *did* grow up here and *are* part of our culture. So to fear them is just inherently racist.
so you are anti-reason?
If you think we shouldn't reject the stupid arguments of stupid people, even when they don't stand to reason, you are anti-reason.
Not calling you stupid or anything.
But rather than clarify on the language he'd used, he chose to dig in, reassert his original line of comment.
When thrown soft, lifeline questioning, and given opportunities to explain himself, he showed himself to be ignorant of the subjects he was trying to pass comment on.
He had ample opportunity to introduce caveats to his blunt starting point, but chose not to.
So we can only assume that his incendiary attitude is due to a combination of ignorance and hate. Difficult to say what proportions each of those have contributed to it all.
hmmm try again
But I don't think you're mad.
I disagree with you.
The idea is that by discussing this (or anything), we get closer to finding a common ground.
I appreciate your point about some people taking his point to mean something worse than it is and in so doing, shutting down any possibility of common ground-finding. But again, and unsurprisingly, I disagree. We can assume he knows how to use language in this context and in this case what he said was so absolutely not a good point (because of his own confused, irrelevant and xenophobic way of thinking).
He wasn't given the time to "clarify" his position because it was newsnight. Maybe he should come on DiS and waste his Sunday arguing with Bamnan or something.
In other situations, I might agree with you. It's not just something people on the left do either.
do people get upset about melanin specifically or do they get upset through stuff like around blacks never relax (because you'll get robbed or whatnot)
I'm sure there's a lot of diversity within 'people who hold racist views' and I wouldn't wanna generalise.
maybe not the middle class old people that you're around
I don't hang out with middle class old people. labour party old people are pretty anti-racist.
and all my grandparents died relatively young. that's how working class I am.
ad hominem i've got down, modus ponens i've got down, but you've got a new kind of logic i've never seen before. Can I write about you?
my cousin is pretty racist, but I still like him and enjoy spending time with him.
he hates gays tho too so fuck him really.
i mean it would be bad if he was just a racist, but gay racists are really annoying (and there are lots of them) and he's not even a pro-gay gay racist.
DAT SOUNDS LIKE DERM HOMOFABIA
it is yeah/ deal with it bitch
seriously tho i think if you're part of a minority that has historically been oppressed you should knw
^and contra the whole banman/you spiele above there's a simple difference between unchecked prejudice/ignorance-as-racism...which maybe a lot of people feel then realise is rationally inaccurate and correct based on the social norm that racism is bad...and unchecked prejudice cultivated and turned into a philosophy...into this category i would put David Starkey, and the vast, vast amount of racists that you find on the 'gay scene'/in 'gay life'
and also i don't have to meet straight racists so they don't annoy me
he might be proudly so for himself, but he can't get beyond that kind of tory solipsism that says 'because i am *ostensibly* happy with my sexuality all other gay people should be too irrelevant of how much homophobia or whatever they face'
...and that was why i somewhat facetiously said 'he hates gays' more accurately he hates *other* gays
Patrick Strudwick puts it reasonably well
but what particularly annoys me about his comments on gayness is the CG-like confused identity politics of starting it with 'Well I am gay...but I don't think this is a good idea' as if that's at all relevant or useful insofar as it seems to presume he has the voice of anyone other than himself (there's no shared gay knowledge that you're somehow party to)... it allows somewhat more homophobic people to be more open about their homophobia because 'A Gay' has somehow made it acceptable
a) just because it's been made illegal, and
b) just because they, personally, have not suffered from it,
does not mean that homophobia has been 'cured'.
One would hope that were one to come out, doing so in the cloistered world of Oxbridge academia would be one of the least prejudicial places to do so. As a historian, one would like to assume that he realises that individual experience =/= universal experience.
"As a historian, one would like to assume that he realises that individual experience =/= universal experience."
But the "I've done it so you should be able to" doctrine is pretty pervasive amongst tory types.
E.g. "I went to inner city state school and now I'm in cabinet" "I grew up on a council estate and didn't riot"
Historians are no less likely to be conservative, sadly.
I heard a lot of Republicans saying that Barack Obama's election meant that it marked the point at which race had ceased to be a barrier to success.
Yeah and it'll be great if Bachmann gets the nomination cause that means we can stop with these stupid feminism threads right guys?
and then if she becomes president, we can swap them for lots of threads like 'oi virgins, I've been thinking, was slavery a good idea after all?' and 'hey guys, i've been wondering, what can we do to help the homosexuals repent?'
It's not "fair enough" to question if hip hop is positive or negative. It's just stupid and pointless.
so could you stop trolling my thread, please? Thanks.
do you glorify Zapsta?
oh smackrat as in drugs? ah that makes more sense
or at least to believe there's any real significance in having one or that anyone needs to hear it
Starkey rapping btw^
And I speak, by the way, as someone who quite likes his hop hop and who is very much into the new Kanye West/Jay Z album. But who, listening to it, can’t help noticing that it’s rather more a celebration of gats, hos, casual sex and easy money, than it is an invocation for study, hard work and social conformity.
surely that actually contradicts the point he's trying to make? Trolling fail maybe?
had potential to be decent.
worst part: the big essay halfway through that no-one will read.
the stormfront thread was better tbf.
Hello Rioters. Look at your friend, now back to me. Now at your friend, now back to me. Sadly, he isn't me, but if he stopped using petrol bombs and started using job centre he could potentially be me. Look down, back up. Where are we? You're at an interview with the man your friend could work for. What's in your hand? Back at me. I have it. It's an application form to that job you need. Look again. The form is now money. Anything is possible when you get a job and stop looting.
Why am I at the interview? Couldn't my friend come on his own?
Also, please don't snatch things out of my hand.
without adding any abject morons
I've got lots of friends post.
are you also a facebook mod
I'm friends with CG on Facebook.
twenty two people liked this
Reading through all the previous comments(good and bad) I take great comfort in seeing so many green arrows supporting David Starkey. Living here in Bangkok I have watched the TV coverage with great sadness. Feeling physically sick at the actions of the mindless scum. I have to say that if I still lived in the UK now I would find it difficult to contain my anger towards these cowardly vermin. The liberal policies started 30+ years ago have finally born visible fruit. Just as my old man warned. Sadly we live in a culture where being 'bad' is good. Being rude and obnoxious often makes you rich and famous.The media has to take its share of the blame. The silent and tolerant majority have had enough of these whinging leeches. Do you here us traitors? I am not going to give the an excuse to play the race or class card yet again but please note: I am white, British and proud! We have our rights too you know??? (Sorry if you can not understand my language.....it?s called old English!)
- Andy, Bangkok, 14/8/2011 15:12
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2025554/David-Starkey-says-Enoch-Powell-right-infamous-rivers-blood-speech.html#ixzz1V1t2ZiSF
He is still digging that hole for himself:
He told The Mail on Sunday: ‘I said until I was blue in the face on the programme that I was not talking about skin colour but gang culture. A large group of whites have started to behave like blacks. I think that is the most unracial remark anyone can make.’
Behave like blacks? What a moron.
a perfectly cromulent word.
when there's an influence of blues for example underpinning pretty much all our popular music from it's beginning.
I know this isn't really the issue lol etc btw.